U.S. to create a bird flu virus mutation

[file83]

Source: U.P.I.

U.S. to create a bird flu virus mutation

Atlanta, GA, Mar. 24 (UPI) -- The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has begun a series of experiments to see how likely the bird flu virus could result in a human pandemic.

The six-month series of experiments seeks to simulate the mixing and matching of genes from the H5N1 avian flu virus that has plagued Asia and a common human flu virus that public-health experts fear could turn avian flu into a pandemic, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.

CDC scientists inside an ultra-secure laboratory have started swapping the genes of the H5N1 avian virus with the genes of an H3N2 virus, the strain behind most recent human flu outbreaks.

The goal is to substitute the eight genes of each virus, one by one, with the eight genes from the other virus to see which of more than 250 possible combinations create flu viruses that could spread easily among humans.

more...

Umm...can I just say :tinfoilhat:, big time.

:scared:

[Chulanowa]

1. That is amazingly stupid

Just when I thought things couldn't get any more fucked up, something like this comes up.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

2. We need to make sure Bush doesn't visit the lab.

Does anyone remember the pic where he spilled soil samples at some lab? I couldn't find it.

:tinfoilhat:

[darkmaestro019]

3. Ah. Wasn't mutating naturally fast enough for you guys, huh? (nt)

[neoblues]

4. Who knows, it may be useful in preparations against

any pandemic. Then again, it would naturally leave them with a pretty powerful bioweapon (so long as they have and can produce adequate quantities of vaccine; one would suppose).

[aquart]

8. How would they test it, do you think?

Like they did a-bomb radiation?

[neoblues]

20. That's a disturbing thought...

Probably realistic enough, but disturbing nonetheless.

[formercia]

12. And only innoculate the people deemed worthy.

I doubt if i'll be getting an invitation.....

[neoblues]

21. That is, innoculate only the people deemed wealthy.

Wealthy and Republican (remembering who's running things, after all).

[rman]

5. This should worry even the incompetence theorists.

How likely is it they will screw up this to?

[file83]

22. If you have ever read a book called "Lab 257", then you would

KNOW to be worried. This book was an eye opener to the messed up world of government disease experiments at a facility on an island off the coast of Long Island called "Lab 257".

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0060011416.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

From the synopsis at amazon:

That the United States government engaged in dangerous biological research during World War II will come as no surprise to Americans jaded by revelations of secret medical experiments and radiation exposures. But that the accident-plagued facility where it happened--and continues to happen--is just off the coast of Long Island may alarm many readers of Michael Christopher Carroll's Lab 257. Carroll, an attorney by trade, gamely takes on complex microbiology and shady government record-keeping in telling the story of Plum Island, home of the Animal Disease Center--no place for a casual picnic. The lab, initially set up by the Army to research ways of destroying Soviet farm animals (and to keep them from destroying ours), has often dealt with bacteria and viruses that can be passed from animals to humans. Carroll draws compelling causal links between Plum Island and the introduction of Lyme disease, West Nile virus, and duck enteritis, all non-native germs that wreaked sudden havoc in North America, and all germs that Plum Island scientists were allegedly working with. With hurricanes and terrorists on his mind, Carroll asks readers to imagine a scenario in which the Plum Island lab might release pathogens into the most densely populated area in the country. He ends the book with two chilling questions. First, does the United States need a research facility that investigates animal pathogens with potential for human transmission? Second, considering that Plum Island never had a particularly good safety record, is it the right place for such a facility? Lab 257, while occasionally veering into unsupported speculation, introduces key questions to the debate on biological security in the 21st century.

My only question is, where are the other 256 labs? How many more are there!?!

[kestrel91316]

29. Plum Island is the ONLY facility of its type in the entire US. And it is

sadly in need of major infrastructure remodeling/reconstruction or new construction altogether. I think they are having some trouble attracting and keeping quality high-level veterinary personnel, too.

No way in hell I would ever work there, if for no other reason than the possibility of having to deal with primates with Herpes B.

[file83]

31. How do you know it's the "only" facility of it's type in the US?

I'm just curious how you know that (I'm not trying to start an argument with you, just curious).:-)

[kestrel91316]

33. I'm a veterinarian with an interest in public health. Plum Island is a

special quarantine facility for the most dangerous animal diseases. That's why they put it on an island.

You can probably find some info about it if you check out the USDA website, or google search it.

There was some murder mystery written a few years ago about it, too, lol. The novel series was about a woman employee of the US Park Service, IIRC. Don't recall the author.

[rman]

6. TX scientist: "must eliminate 90 percent of Earth's population"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=228x19251

But there was a gravely disturbing side to that otherwise scientifically significant meeting, for I watched in amazement as a few hundred members of the Texas Academy of Science rose to their feet and gave a standing ovation to a speech that enthusiastically advocated the elimination of 90 percent of Earth's population by airborne Ebola. The speech was given by Dr. Eric R. Pianka (Fig. 1), the University of Texas evolutionary ecologist and lizard expert who the Academy named the 2006 Distinguished Texas Scientist.

[converted_democrat]

11. WTF? That's really messed up.. That's the scariest thing I've read in

a long time..

[file83]

23. That is EXACTLY the news story I thought of when I read about this CDC

article.

Kind of reminds me of the movie plot in "12 Monkeys" with Bruce Willis. That nutcase biologist deliberately spreads a deadly virus around the planet by flying around the world in a commercial airliner and most of the world's population dies off.



Yikes. :scared:

[Neil Lisst]

7. What's it going to be? MIHOP or LIHOP?

[file83]

24. I think it'll be ALLDIE.

[MadisonProgressive]

9. Great Idea!

:sarcasm:

[Mnemosyne]

10. Just shaking my head at these idiots. n/t

[mmonk]

13. Oh good

they are going to protect us.
:eyes:

[CoffeeCat]

14. I'm not a scientist, so someone who is, please explain!

The stated goal of this "experiment" is "to see how likely the bird flu virus could result in a human pandemic."

Ok, they know the genetic code of the existing bird flu (H5N1). They know the genetic code of the recent garden-variety flu (H3N2). So.....why not do computer simulations? Why do they have to create these strains in the lab?

Another question...the text says that they're creating these gene-swapped strains "to see which of more than 250 possible combinations create flu viruses that could spread easily among humans."
How would creating these strains answer the question of which ones would most easily spread? Can you simulate that in a lab?

Again, I don't have a hard science background. Please forgive my ignorance, but if these are valid questions--does anyone know the answers?

Thanks for any insight!

[TalkingDog]

16. Probably a combination of computer modeling and animal tests.

Based on the older variation, they probably have whittled the number down a bit with computer modeling. After all, viruses that fit the "lock" of our cells in order to replicate, need to be able to do a few things.

There is a cell "switch" they need to turn off that affects collagen production. This makes the cells penetrable. The also need to be able to highjack the cells capacity to reproduce.

I don't know the minutia, but not all combinations can do all the "proper" things in the right sequence so that they are the most communicable.

But I'm agreed, if it's not to develop a potential vaccine or series of vaccines, then it sounds like we are building a bioweapon.



Hi Agent Mike! I said BIOWEAPON.

[nashville_brook]

17. not a scientist either, but have similar questions...

seems the only reason to create the strain is to *experiment-on* that strain... to use it for something.

at any rate, it's an excellent anxiety-raising article.

[file83]

25. Here's a book that will give you an idea of how they test it in

the real world:

This book was an eye opener to the messed up world of government disease experiments at a facility on an island off the coast of Long Island called "Lab 257".

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0060011416.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

From the synopsis at amazon:

That the United States government engaged in dangerous biological research during World War II will come as no surprise to Americans jaded by revelations of secret medical experiments and radiation exposures. But that the accident-plagued facility where it happened--and continues to happen--is just off the coast of Long Island may alarm many readers of Michael Christopher Carroll's Lab 257. Carroll, an attorney by trade, gamely takes on complex microbiology and shady government record-keeping in telling the story of Plum Island, home of the Animal Disease Center--no place for a casual picnic. The lab, initially set up by the Army to research ways of destroying Soviet farm animals (and to keep them from destroying ours), has often dealt with bacteria and viruses that can be passed from animals to humans. Carroll draws compelling causal links between Plum Island and the introduction of Lyme disease, West Nile virus, and duck enteritis, all non-native germs that wreaked sudden havoc in North America, and all germs that Plum Island scientists were allegedly working with. With hurricanes and terrorists on his mind, Carroll asks readers to imagine a scenario in which the Plum Island lab might release pathogens into the most densely populated area in the country. He ends the book with two chilling questions. First, does the United States need a research facility that investigates animal pathogens with potential for human transmission? Second, considering that Plum Island never had a particularly good safety record, is it the right place for such a facility? Lab 257, while occasionally veering into unsupported speculation, introduces key questions to the debate on biological security in the 21st century.

My only question is, where are the other 256 labs? How many more are there!?!

[nashville_brook]

15. ULTRA-secure... phew!

i'd be worried if it were just a regularly-secure disease lab.

this article is totally vague and ambiguous.

are they just just now getting around to trying to figure out H5N1?
is the story saying gene therapy is being looked-at as a possible weapon against the bird flu?
or are they only interested in 'likely"-hood?

this is a crappy say-nothing press release.

[noonwitch]

18. I guess they didn't read "The Stand"

I wasn't afraid of the bird flu until I read that US government scientists are going to start experiments with it. Now it's time for investing in some Hazmat suits, I guess.

[file83]

26. Don't forget the "Cans of Tuna" and the "Powdered Milk" you are

supposed to stash "under your bed"!!!

Read more about that here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=647142

[Javaman]

19. Actually the CDC does this kind of thing quite often...

Aside from merely studying various virus' the CDC also creates mutations in control to try and create anti-virus serums.

They do this with all sorts of diseases.

This is nothing new. This is just feeding into more of the fear and panic squad.

[incapsulated]

27. That's what I figured, to create a vaccine

If it mutates, there will NOT be time to save people. I'm far more concerned with the third world countries than our own, with this. They will be the hardest hit and be the last in line to get any help. If they can create a vaccine before it even mutates, thank christ.

[file83]

30. Yes, but if there are say, 15 different possible strains that could

transmit human to human, that won't help us because no company is going to make enough vaccine for (15x) 300 MILLION people (that's just the U.S.!) over until they KNOW what kind of strain it is. And of course, they won't know what kind of strain to manufacture massive amounts of vaccine for until the actual strain is found in human to human outbreaks.

So, this test is probably more likely to just be a way for the "elite" to make vaccine for ALL POSSIBLE strains so that at least THEY will survive a global pandemic.

[incapsulated]

32. So what you are saying is...

We will have to kill the rich and take their vaccines? Well, that's been my plan all along! :D

Honestly I don't know exactly how this would work, perhaps they have a criteria to determine which of the strains they would focus on, for reasons that are well beyond my knowledge of such things.

[file83]

28. LOL - You have an "Anarchy" symbol as your avatar and you said...

"This is just feeding into more of the fear and panic squad."

Oh sweet, sweet irony. :rofl: