Neocon claims Hatch was right - Bush can break any law

[rpgamerd00d]

Me: "You do realize that if Hatch were correct, Bush could break any law, right? ANY LAW. He could murder someone, rob a bank, rape someone, whatever he wants, so long as he verbally claimed it was for national security purposes, and according to Hatch, you couldn't even investigate the incident?"

Neocon: "Is it so strange ? Cannot diplomats do much the same thing ?"

Me: "You think that the President can murder, rape, and steal with no consequences?"

Neocon: "I did not say 'with no consequences'. The prez is ALWAYS subject to impeachment if his actions are thought to be illegal. There's your consequence."

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So, according to Neocons, Presidents are free to break any law they want to, and the only recourse is to Impeach if we feel its illegal, and then, I assume, prosecute criminally after Impeachment.

What this means, is that if Congress is unwilling to Impeach a President for breaking the law, that President can break the law without liability, without being held criminally responsible.

I am not sure that he is completely wrong according to the technical way in which the Presidency and Impeachment works. I believe a sitting President does enjoy immunity from all prosecution. But, if a crime is committed, Impeachment is the constitutionally dictated remedy, followed by criminal charges once Impeached.

However, what he is overlooking is the simple common sense result of that interpretation, which is a President that breaks laws without consequence. Obviously, we don't want that.

The NSA Spying fight is not a fight over whats legal and whats not legal. Its a fight over the powers we wish the Executive Branch to have. No matter if Bush's program is legal or not (and its not), it has to be deemed an overstep of his bounds, because the only check on his power, according to Neocons, is Impeachment. If he doesn't fear Impeachment, he has no limitations to his power.

This is the arguement we need to make to people so that REALLY understand the NSA Spying issue.

[dusmcj]

1. what buffoon were you talking to ? nt

[rpgamerd00d]

2. I cant mention the board name here.

But its a copycat of this site, where both sides can post.
Sort of a neutral zone, if you will.

[Inland]

3. "Can break" means "is getting away with it."

The guy doesn't say what's right or wrong, what bothers him or doesn't, or what the congress SHOULD do nowadays. You could say the same about drug kingpins, or child rapists, as long as they aren't caught. It's profoundly amoral, and unAmerican, and anti-law, at worst, or a silly sophmoric evasion of a discussion of what the president should be doing, at best.

The Congress, by the way, can remedy ANY WRONG action by the president, whether or not illegal, by cutting his funding. Simple as that. Is your neocon friend in favor of cutting off funding for illegal programs, like the NSA spying? Get ready for more evasions.

[Demeter]

4. If Bush Isn't Impeached, then the GOP Is Accomplice to the Crime

and they all get to spend a lot of time in orange jumpsuits.

[underpants]

5. Do what you are told. Respect your elders. Respect your superiors.

Your place is identified by the rank they assign you.
You can only achieve rank through their approval.
You will never outrank them.
The Adults are in charge.
You don't know what they know so you are in no position to doubt them.
They can never be wrong.


Do what you are told. Respect your elders. Respect your superiors.


___You really do have to understand what is running through their head while you are talking. It is a form of brainswashing and yes it is based on the culture of the military_____