So why do so many cross the border illegally instead of legally?

[booley]

This isn't meant to flame. But I think it's a good question and living in Missouri, i haven't met any immigrants who could tell me.

So can somebody closer to the issue explain it to me?

Why cross the border into the US illegally when we have laws that allow for naturalization? Are the laws too tough? Do the laws exclude people unfairly? Is it unreasonable to expect people to wait for naturalization? Is there something else?

Please help me understand this. Because I do get that many people risk their lives to cross the border and how hard things can be for them once they get here. What I want to know is why they do it instead of trying to do it within the laws.

[mdmc]

1. You are able to cross the border illegally

it is next to impossible to do so legally.

[booley]

2. how so?

What makes it so hard?

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Paperwork, money, that sort of thing. Out of curioisity I looked into

what it would take to emigrate to Canada; the ability to do a job that a Canadian can't perform and $10,000 in the bank.

[MADem]

7. Or, $400K, invested in a CA business,and then you can sit on your butt!!!

[astonamous]

5. It takes almost 22 years of paperwork and hearings to do it

legally. It's almost half that for those that cross illegally. I heard that on C-Span over the weekend.

[mdmc]

11. two things booley

1) To do so legally takes luck, time and money. If you have luck, time and money, why would you immigrate?
2) If you survive coming here illegally, it is all good. As long as you don't commit any crimes, you should be able to live peacefully if you work hard. If you do get caught, (an group of illegals got caught playing soccer at a local high school over the weekend. They all have peacefully lived here of ten years, and now will be deported) you are returned to Mexico. You are not tortured, jailed, or otherwise penalized. You just go home.

Why wait to work in Mexico when you can work now in the USA?

[acmejack]

12. Because you have to jump through your ass to to do it1

JumpThruYourAss.Guv

[shanti]

3. quotas n/t

[Bacchus39]

6. because you will be denied a visa if you are poor

visas are typically granted to people who have enough money or a professional job that would make it unlikely or unnecessary for them to remain in the US to look for work.

thus, if you are a poor peasant from Mexico or Central America it is very likely that your visa application will be rejected.

[bush_is_wacko]

31. I don't mean to be a bitch but why is this fact a problem?

Illegal immigrants are making AMERICAN CITIZENS poorer!

They effect EVERY aspect of our economy! They affect our health and auto insurance rates. They affect our income levels, everything, just everything. The list would take up pages and the explanations would take up more pages. Name an economic/societal issue and figure out how they affect it.

There is NO truth to the lie that Americans are unwilling to do the jobs they are coming here to do. PLENTY of Americans would do them IF the jobs payed what they were worth! LEGAL American citizens are losing jobs to ILLEGAL aliens who are willing to do those jobs for LESS THAN minimum wage. My own brother used to love to do migrant farm work. He said it was fun. He couldn't afford to even RENT a shack on the wages though. I happen to like to do physical jobs. I always feel like I've accomplished something at the end of the day. But I WILL NOT do those jobs for $3.00 and hour.

I am a Liberal, but I am no longer a "bleeding heart liberal!" We CANNOT be the solution to poverty around the world! By trying to do so we are CREATING poverty in our own country.

Having said all that, the solution to the problem is NOT to punish the illegal workers. The solution is to punish the employers. It isn't that illegal aliens work harder than Americans. They just work CHEAPER than Americans. The workers will go back to their countries when their employers HAVE to pay a decent wage and provide workers comp, unemployment, etc, etc. because those employers will have plenty of already legal employees applying for the jobs.

THE LAWS ARE ALREADY ON THE BOOKS. THEY ARE NOT BEING ENFORCED BECAUSE CONGRESS FAVORS EMPLOYERS NOT EMPLOYEES! Sadly, I have absolutely no confidence that our Democratic leaders will do anything differently. It takes money and manpower to crack down on employers and it seems no one is wiling to spend the money or hire the men! Maybe we should outsource the job?

[SammyWinstonJack]

8. Desperation and immediacy? I am grateful not to be in their shoes.

Yet.

[mdmc]

14. yet

I often wonder if "pro 4437 DU'ers" would feel the same way if it was them that were the "illegals". Use your empathy and think of what life would be like (living in poverty in Mexico). I wonder how many "4437 supporting DU'ers" would be willing to waste away in poverty because "it is the law".

[Bacchus39]

15. yeah, but that doesn't mean the US has to allow them in

because Mexico can't provide for its own people.

[Cleita]

17. If the US didn't have a need for them, they wouldn't be

allowed in here for humanitarian reasons.

[Bacchus39]

18. that's correct because Mexico doesn't provide for them

adequately. but its not the USA's responsibility, its Mexico's.

[booley]

29. actually

I saw an interesting documentary on Ciudad Jarez and how Globalization has meant that more and more Mexicans can't survive economicly in Mexico. And so that drives more and more to come here.

and which country pushed for globalization, including NAFTA?

So it is kinda the US's fault. At least our government shares part of the blame.

[mdmc]

33. there are lots of things that we don't need to do.

I would like to help reduce poverty.

[Avalux]

9. Because we have immigration laws.

We do not have an open border allowing anyone to cross whenever they want to become a citizen. Thousands cross our southern border daily; they can't all become legal as the law stands.

That's the great injustice here - our government turns a blind eye to the law and allows illegal immigration to continue; corporations exploit these people by paying them pennies knowing they have no recourse. It's also not fair to those who have worked hard and taken the steps to become a legal immigrant.

[Bridget Burke]

10. Yes, the laws are too tough. Yes, they are unfair.

I've known well off, educated folks who spent a bundle on immigration lawyers--just to stay here legally. "Pull" was needed for them to get in originally. Many of these people became--or will become--naturalized. But others work as legal immigrants.

When most of my people came here, they just stepped off the boat & got checked for obvious disease. No problem? Welcome to the USA!

[Cleita]

16. Yes, but your ancestors were white.

I know about the "black irish". LOL My husband was one, but they were still white and spoke English. Interesting though that you bring up the Irish issue because the Irish were treated like non-people by their English overlords sort of what we are doing here with the hispanic immigrants and even hispanics who were born and raised here.

[Bridget Burke]

22. Of course, even when it was "easy" for some....

It was almost impossible for others to emigrate.

Many Irish were treated quite badly once they got here. So they made St Patrick's day from a religious holiday to an expression of Irish pride. I'm sure some of the "Real Americans" were offended by Irish flags being carried down the street--along with the Red, White & Blue.

(When the blue-nosed Puritans start getting miffed, you know you're on the right track.)

[Cleita]

23. Yes, you are right. They had to do the dirtiest jobs and

weren't allowed in many places, to shop or eat. This is why many became cops. It was a job with a pension that most didn't want because of the danger. It's also why they went into politics to change things.

[Bridget Burke]

24. My father's parents emigrated from East Galway.

My grandfather worked in a mill & then joined the police force. He died when my father was quite young--don't know the details.

My father was in the Air Force (until a plane crash) & his brother made a career in the FBI. I'm told my grandmother lamented that neither of her sons had "a decent job."

[foreverdem]

34. It wasn't exactly that easy

Do you know the conditions on those boats? Days upon days surrounded by stench, disease, death? Many losing family members on the way over. It wasn't exactly easy to get to the US back then.

[Cleita]

13. Quotas.

The demand for immigrant labor is larger than the quotas of those who can immigrate legally. Also, there are qualifications. It's easier to be given a visa or residency under the quotas if you are a professional or at least well educated than if you have only a sixth grade education. Those educated and professional immigrants are not going to be looking for jobs in the fields or at Walmart so there is still a demand for those workers.

[Jara sang]

19. adrenaline rush

j/k

[BooScout]

20. From someone who knows.....

A few years ago my husband immigrated to the States legally. It was hell on earth for us for 4 solid years.........we finally left and moved to the UK. I had to become a layman's expert on immigration just to do the very basic manuevers thru the system.

If you are an American Citizen you can bring your spouse or fiance into the country on a Spouse or fiance Visa. To do that wll cost you several thousand dollars (more if you use an immigration attorney). Your spouse/fiance will have a criminal background check, you must show proof that you can financially support him/her, you must show the govt. 3 years of your tax returns, a year of your bank records and proof of your salary and assests. You must show proof your union is geniuine...ie....travel receipts, pictures, marraige certificates(if you are already married), divorce certificates, hotel receipts, etc. You must also sign an affidavit that you will support them for 10 years (evenvif you divorce) and that they will not be eligible for public funds.

Once your spouse/fiance enters the country they cannot leave and re-enter the country again unless they have a document called Advance Parole (lovely name isn't it........and it costs more money)...and if it's your fiance you have a limited time in which to marry. Before your Spouse/fiance can even come into the States, they will ahve to travel to the American Embassy/Consulate in their country of residence and submit to a physical examination and interview. If the immigration officer there decides he doesn't like the way they look he can say "sorry sucker".

The Spouse/Fiance Visa can take years to get if your Significant Other is from certain countries....technically by law the Spouse/Fiance Visa is supposed to be expediated ahead of all other types but it seldom is. It took us about a year to get my then fiance in to the States and he came from our biggest ally in the world, the UK,,,,and we only got it that fast because fiance's traveled from all over the country to protest at the Texas Service Center that processed the Visas and got some publicity about what total crap the INS really is.....once in the wait to become a permanent resident can be anywhere from 2 to 5 years......longer to be a citizen. While you wait you get to apply for and renew your yearly green card for even more $$$ and often you go months without a valid one while you wait for it to be renewed.

Other ways to immigrate legally are to have a corporation sponser you as a critical employee......many firms are doing this now with employees from India who come to the States to learn the ropes before they take the US IT and call center businesses back with them overseas. These type of visas are in fact the ones expedited the quickest.......with lots of corporate $$$ and legal know how to cut thru the red tape.

The next type of Legal Immigration is for just people in general who want a better life in the States.......ie, most people from South of the Border would fall into this categaory. These luck souls get to enter the Immigration Lottery....where 50,000 immigration visas are up for grabs annually...........now factor in that a lot more people than that want to immigrate yearly to the US and you might get an understanding of why so many come in illegally. I'm not saying they are in the right, I'm merely giving you a reason why so many chose to immigrate illegally.


I could go on and on about how totally fucked up the BCIS (formerly the INS) is in the States but my blood pressure would cause my head to explode. I just wish we had never gone thru it in the first place.....when we decided to leave the States and move to the UK, I simply filled out an on=line form, paid a one time fee and sent a picture to the British Embassy in the States. Less than 10 days later I had my US Passport stamped with my Spouse Visa and was good to immigrate to the UK.......and all with a cheery welcome to Great Britian when I landed..........all the comnplete opposite of my husband's experience with immigrating to the US.

I personally think that illegal immigration will only be slowed once the government goes after those that hire the illegal aliens.......no matter if it hurts the mom and pop farmer, the guy that built your neighbors house or the large chicken processing plants that hire them.

[msgadget]

40. Thank you for sharing that experience. n/t

[radio4progressives]

21. to get on the other side?

:shrug: i give up, why would someone cross the border illegally when they can't do it legally?

[Marie26]

25. For most, there is no legal method to immigrate to the US

I should start a thread on this. Most people assume that if someone wants to immigrate to the US, they just need to "stand in line" to get a visa. It doesn't work like that. You CANNOT immigrate to the US simply in order to work. US immigration law is very strict & allows only a few baes for immigration. These include a family member's petition, asylum, & employer-based visas for highly-specialized professionals. Your normal day laborer is not going to qualify on any of these grounds. There's no "getting in line"; for most prospective immigrants, the country is already closed.

[BooScout]

26. Not quite.....

There's a lottery each year that lets in 50,000. Many people wait years to get in this way. Once in, they can, down the road....sponser family members. Granted it's a hard way to do it, but many do do it this way.

[Marie26]

27. That's true

You're right, there's also a diversity lottery of 55,000. But here's the thing - it's a "diversity lottery" because it's aimed at attracting immigrants from countries w/low rates of US immigration. Any country that has sent more than 50,000 immigrants over the past five years is excluded. This excludes most of Latin America, Britain, China, Canada, etc. For immigrants from these countries, you're just out of luck.

And even for the countries that are eligible, 55,000 visas is not a lot compared to the number of people who want to immigrate. You'd probably have better luck winning the state lottery.

[BooScout]

28. Too true.....

But thems the rules.... If we opened the doors wide then we would be quickly overwhelmed. As it is now our social services are crippled by illegal immigration in many areas. I don't have answers, other than to prosecute the employers that hire illegals.

[Marie26]

43. I think we need to change the immigration laws

to allow some form of legal immigration for workers. After all, most of our ancestors came over to America in order to work. We should allow a visa lottery for Mexico & Latin America, streamline the process so people can actually get them, & allow employer-based immigration for non-professionals. I actually think a quota system is better than what we have now - allow, for example, 100,000 workers from Mexico to arrive each year as legal residents. This would ease the backlog of illegal immigrants & also ensure that these workers couldn't be so easily exploited by big business.

[Fleshdancer]

30. With what legal immigration option other than marriage?

EMPLOYMENT SPONSORED IMMIGRATION

1. The Employment Based First Preference (EB1) or Priority workers comprise of the following three categories which are listed below as A B & C:

A. "Extraordinary Ability" (Employer - Labor Certification not required) This category requires that the candidate have expertise in business, sciences, athletics or arts, which is demonstrated by national or international acclaim, and well documented achievements. The candidate must be entering the US to continue work in his/her area of extraordinary ability, and this entry must prospectively benefit the US

B. "Outstanding Professor or Researcher" (Employer required - Labor Certification not required) requires that the candidate be:

i. recognized internationally in a specific academic area, and
ii. possess at least three years of teaching or research experience in the academic area; and
iii. seek to enter the United States for :

a. tenure or tenure-track position within a university or other institution of higher education to teach in the academic area; or
b. comparable position with a university or other institution of higher education to conduct research in the area; or
c. comparable position to conduct research in an area with a department, division, or institute or a private employer, if the department, division, or institute employs at least three persons full-time in research activities and has achieved documented accomplishments in an academic field.

C. "Multinational Executive or Manager" (Employer required - Labor Certification not required) requires that the candidate have been employed abroad in that capacity during at least one of the 3 years preceding his/her application for admission into the US as a priority worker. He/she must enter the US to be employed as an executive or manager for the same firm, corporation or legal entity or a subsidiary or affiliate of the entity that employed him/her abroad.

2. The Employment Based Second Preference (EB2) Professionals includes those with advanced degrees or persons of "exceptional ability". These visas are reserved for qualified immigrants who are:

A. members of the professions holding advanced degrees (Employer required - Labor Certification required - Unless work is in National Interest) or their equivalent, or

B. those who are of exceptional ability (Employer required - Labor Certification required - Unless work is in National Interest) in the sciences, arts, or business, who will benefit the national economy, cultural or educational interests of the US and whose services are sought by an employer in the US A Bachelor's degree and five years of professional experience is considered the equivalent of an advanced degree. The mere possession of a degree or license does not constitute sufficient evidence of exceptional ability.

Unlike a priority worker, a person may immigrate to the US under the above category only after his/her employer has obtained a labor certification (LC) for the job. In some circumstances the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) may waive the requirements of a job offer and labor certification if the work is deemed to be in the "national interest". The classification of those who can qualify in the national interest and obtain a waiver of the labor certification has been explained in the section on national interest waivers separately at the web site of the Law Office of Theodore Behlendorf.

3. The Employment Based Third Preference (EB3) (Employer required - Labor Certification required) comprises of skilled workers, professionals or other workers which is explained below.

A qualified "skilled worker" is a person capable of performing a job which requires at least two years of training or experience, for which qualified workers are not available in the United States. To qualify as a "professional", an individual needs to be a professional with a Baccalaureate degree. "Other workers" are those who are considered unskilled labor, not of a temporary or seasonal nature, for which qualified workers are not available in the United States. Skilled workers, professionals and other workers are required to file and obtain a labor certification from the US Department of Labor and be sponsored by their employers for their jobs.

4. The Employment Based Fourth Preference (EB4) (Employer required - Labor Certification required) is comprised of "Special immigrants" which is explained in the following paragraph:

Immigrants in this category include religious ministers, long time employees of the US government employed abroad, and some investors and physicians who have resided in the US for a number of years.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

IMMEDIATE RELATIVES AND FAMILY PREFERENCE

Immediate relatives of US citizens are : spouses, children and parents of US citizens - unmarried children and under 21 years of age, and, in the case of a parent of a US citizen, the petitioning son or daughter being at least 21 years of age.

The definition of immediate relative includes widows of US citizens provided that the alien was the spouse of the citizen for at least 2 years prior to the citizen's death and was not legally separated from the citizen at the time of his/her death.

IMP : The petition for permanent residence has to be filed within 2 years after the citizen's death and before re-marriage.

The advantage of qualifying as an immediate relative is that there is no numerical limitation or backlogs for sponsorship.

The Family preference categories are as follows:

1st Pref. - unmarried sons and daughters of US citizens,

2nd Pref. - spouses and unmarried sons and daughters of lawful permanent residents,

3rd Pref. - married sons and daughters of US citizens

4th Pref. - brothers/sisters of US citizens.

At present the waiting time frames for the 4th preference siblings of US citizens is approximately 10-12 years!! The Visa Bulletin posted in the Updated Section of our web site which is released each month by the US State Department provides the cut off dates in each of the categories we have outlined above.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

MARRIAGE

Marriages within the United States

The US citizen needs to submit a visa petition to the appropriate INS Regional Service Center to prove that the marriage was not entered into for the for the sole purpose of obtaining a green card. The burden is on the parties to establish the bona fides of the marriage.

The foreign-born spouse should submit an application for adjustment of status - an application for a green card, a completed fingerprint chart, green card type photographs and numerous other INS forms, plus INS filing fees.

Effective since November 29, 1996, the application is now submitted to the INS Regional Service Center for processing.

The INS schedules an interview somewhere between two and 14 months depending on which INS office the application was filed. If the wait exceeds 90 days, chances are that the employment authorization document (EAD) or work card and the travel document will be issued in a matter of a few weeks. The Regional Service Centers are taking on average 3 months to process the EAD. If the interview occurs within 90 days, it is possible that no work or travel permit will be issued.

Marriages outside the United States

The foreign-born spouse usually must remain in his/her country until he/she obtains the green card.

The citizen spouse submits a visa petition to either the appropriate INS office or directly to the US Embassy or Consulate in the country where the foreign-born spouse lives.

Once the visa petition has been approved, the foreign-born spouse will receive a packet from the National Visa Center (NVC). The packet will inform the foreign-born spouse of the various documents required at the immigrant visa interview abroad and the packet will also include documents requesting biographic data which need to be completed and forwarded to the US Embassy or Consulate abroad. The process can take three to six months.

In order to avoid a long separation, sometimes the spouses return to the US after marriage and file the necessary applications only after they are both in the United States. If the foreign-born spouse is able to enter the US, the INS will not deny his/her application for a green card. It is common for the INS to stop the foreign-born spouse at the border and exclude him/her from entering the US as an intending immigrant. Since spouses of US citizens are considered "immediate relatives" under immigration laws, they are exempt from all numerical quota limitations.

CONDITIONAL RESIDENCE

If the marriage is less than two years old when the foreign-born spouse becomes a permanent resident, the green card will expire after a two-year period. Both spouses must submit a joint petition to remove the two-year condition within the 90-day period immediately preceding the end of the two year period.

If the marriage has terminated by reason of divorce, death of the citizen spouse or spousal abuse, the foreign-born spouse may apply for a waiver of the joint petition requirement.

INVESTMENT

Individuals investing a minimum of $1 million, or in certain circumstances, $500,000, in a new commercial enterprise employing at least 10 US workers (exclusive of the immigrant, his/her spouse and sons and daughters) will qualify for this classification of the visa. If this investment is made in either a rural area or in an area experiencing high unemployment, the minimum amount required for the investment is $500,000. Investor visas for those investing in rural or high unemployment areas is limited to a maximum of 3,000 every year.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

LOTTERY

These visas will be distributed among six geographical regions. A greater proportion of visas will go to those regions that have lower immigration rates in the US The regions are:

Africa : All countries on the continent of Africa and adjacent islands.

Asia : From Israel to all North Pacific Islands, including Indonesia.

Europe : From Greenland to Russia - includes all countries of the former Soviet Union.

North America : Includes only one qualified country this year (1998), The Bahamas.

Oceania : Includes Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, and all countries and islands in the South Pacific.

South America : Includes Central America, Mexico and the Caribbean countries.

Individuals born in countries that have significant numbers of immigrants to the United States are considered "high admission'' and are not eligible for the program. "High admission'' countries are defined as those from which the United States has received 50,000 or more immigrants during the last five years in the immediate relative, or family or employment preference categories. For 1998, "high admission'' countries are:

China (mainland and Taiwan), INDIA, The Philippines, Vietnam, South Korea, United Kingdom and dependent territories (except Hong Kong and Northern Ireland), Canada, Mexico, Jamaica, El Salvador, Colombia, and The Dominican Republic.

Requirements : In addition to being born in a qualifying country, applicants must have either a high school education or its equivalent, or within the past five years have two years of work experience in an occupation that requires at least two years of training or experience.

Only one entry for each applicant must be submitted during the registration period. Duplicate or multiple entries will disqualify individuals from registration for this program.

Entries received before or after the specified registration dates regardless of when they are postmarked and entries sent to an address other than one of those indicated below are all void. All entries received during the registration period will be individually numbered and entries will be randomly selected by computer without regard to the time of receipt. Only successful registrants will be notified by mail at the address listed on their entry.

No outside service can improve an applicant's chance of being chosen or guarantee an entry will win and any service that claims it can, is promising something it cannot deliver. Outside agencies can only help in the proper filing of the application - paying attention to the details involved.

Persons who think they have been defrauded by a United States based company/consultant in connection with the Diversity Visa Lottery may wish to contact their local consumer affairs office or the National Fraud Information Center at 1-800-876-7060.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

OTHER AVENUES

There are some other avenues available for immigration, for example, the asylum/refugee petition and the suspension of deportation which have undergone and are undergoing substantial changes pursuant to recent laws becoming effective from April 1, 1997.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. I am in KC and work with lots of immigrants,

legal and illegal. Right now, in this city, if you want a green card or to become a citizen, it is an 18 month wait to see someone in immigration.

If my family was hungry and I wanted to feed them, I wouldn't bother to wait 18 months to go to work legally. Would you?

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Money, even if they are treated badly and

paid well under American standards they still make more here than back at home. Remintances back to Mexico are in fact so large that they are second to oil

[msgadget]

39. And, in fact, have expanded their middle class! n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. That one is in danger due to ... drum roll

NAFTA... my father was a victim of it... the business he built, it was destroyed by NAFTA and cheap Chinese knick knacks

[msgadget]

42. Ironic, no?!

I'm sorry to hear of your father's fate. Are you frustrated that NAFTA isn't mentioned more often during the current debates?

[msgadget]

36. The immigration process itself, the size of the quotas,

the (relatively) low rate of prosecution and deportation here AND the the employers seeking them out. Attempts at unionizing or forcing their governments to address their problems at home are harshly met in some countries.


Edit for spelling and to add: Kerry is speaking right now about illegal immigration. I didn't hear Kennedy mention NAFTA before him and neither has Kerry (yet?) but they both voted for it and it was SUPPOSED to uplift...

[rene moon]

37. Because it can take up almost 20 years in some cases

There are quotas for 4 countries allowed to emigrate to the US. Mexico, Philippines, China, and India . Only 25,000 are let in per year from Mexico.

Plus, they have to be sponsored by a relative or employer to get their Legal Permanent Resident status and that could take years. If you are a poor Mexican and have no family oe employer to sponsor you, which MANY of them don't, then you cant get LPR status like you could if you came form say, England (which is only a 2 year wait).

So if you are not either:
* Immediate Relatives
* Special Immigrants (political refugees)
* Family-sponsored
* Employer-sponsored

Then you are SOL. And from any these people, their own country isn't providing them anything and they have families and themselves to feed. Desperation is quote a motivation factor.

[ourbluenation]

38. because most mexican workers are not alllowed in legally...

Mexico has no lottery for green cards. They either have to marry an american or get an employer to sponsor them by proving they can do a job no american has the skills to do. There you have it. Happy to help.

[KurtNYC]

44. It isn't the crossing that is illegal

it is staying and working without a green card that is illegal. Eg. you can come into the country saying that you are coming as a tourist for the weekend. You haven't broken the law until you 1) don't go home in time or 2)work for pay.

Another misunderstood part of this is that entities who employ illegals COULD NOT offer those jobs to people with green cards or SS cards. In other words if you came in legally, you would not be eligible to be part of the underground economy. I think this part doesn't get mentioned because it makes out the American employers (mostly restaurants and agriculture) as the key part of this situation. These aren't "jobs that Americans won't do" -- they are jobs which American won't pay other Americans legal wages (and the taxes) to do.

[msgadget]

45. Great points, Kurt.