Re. the state of our board: Is it because we get good news...

[DeepModem Mom]

from time to time now, with the Bush cabal embattled, so we're not so united, and can turn on each other? And we can post any kind of inflammatory, over-the-top bad-taste thing that comes to mind? This is just one of several threads in recent days that have questioned the state of our discussion boards. I have to admit that I'm sometimes embarrassed I gave the link to my Journal to family and friends. When I think back to the great spirit, and mutual respect, affection, and support here at such times as Presidential debates, elections, and Fitz, I feel sad, and a bit angry.

Some happy exceptions I feel I must mention -- the DUers who worked on the Helen Thomas flowers project, the support for TruthIsAll, the intrepid posters in LBN, the many DUers who post publishable pieces here every day, the many DUers who find amazing information from a thousand different sources, the many DUers who continue to post responses to individual threads that respect, and sometimes even encourage, or express gratitude, to the OP. And, as always, the admins for everything, and the mods for their service.

Just for the record, I'm not a newbie -- almost 17,000 posts. And I'm just calling for a deep breath, and some reflection, although it's been my experience that many DUers don't want to hear suggestions of any kind. They immediately see them as orders, as attempts to restrict their freedom or censor them. For those who take that leap, my flame suit is on.

[Kerrytravelers]

1. No flaming from this corner.

It's gets old fast. You fell like you have to stay and get the backs of your buddies, or defend your profession, but after a while, it becomes silly when it keeps rotating in that circular cycle of stupidity.

Thank you for an well said OP.

[TomInTib]

2. Well put.

Maybe it's the moon cycle or something, but things have been a little strange here lately.

And I know I am not blameless.

At the same time, I am eternally grateful for the intense folks on DU. Heaven forbid we should all think alike or agree on everything.

[crispini]

3. I don't mind the immigration debate...

I mind that a TON of people on here who are way too willing to call people who differ "freepers" and suchlike, and the people who are so angry and so emotional about this issue that they can't see straight.

[babylonsister]

4. You'll get no arguments from me.

:hi:

[Vidar]

5. well done

[enlightenment]

6. No flame here

just a thanks (and a drop-jawed 'wow' for your post count)!

In my very humble opinion, we turn on each other not out of complacency but out of frustration -- tied in our natural, liberal, inclinations for individuality and independence.

I can only imagine what a diverse crowd we must be; in age, gender, ethnicity, culture, nationality, and even politics. If we could all fit into a room together, we'd be hard-pressed to find common ground.

I agree whole-heartedly that we should strive to treat each other, to treat everyone, with respect; but I have noticed that there are those who do not feel that it is necessary or even relevant to inject that kind of restraint into the debate. Politeness is not weakness, of course -- but I think some folks truly believe that it is a sign of weakness to be polite.

Alternately, it wouldn't surprise me to discover that, like myself, many people on this board were raised to 'praise in public and criticize in private' -- but in this cyber-world that can be tough to do. Perhaps others also find it so, and it creates some of the problem.

Still, it is unfortunate that some folks see politeness as a restriction, when in truth it allows you to say things that you could never say otherwise!

Best Regards,
e.

[GeorgeGist]

7. Thanks for the post...

Unresolved conflict > frustration > anger > 'vilence' > unresolved conflict > vicious cycle.

It seems to me a vicious cycle can be stopped at any point; all one person needs to do is reflect on one that suits them.

Mine is frustration; I'll reflect on it.

[Joanne98]

8. No pain, no gain. I appreciate DUer's calling for peace......

But I'm afraid it's going to be this way for awhile. You can't run away from some issues. Like immigration. I grew up on the Mexican border and lived in LA for 20 years. My head explodes everytime I hear, "They're just doing jobs Americans don't want to do". This debate is bigger than that. I'm writing down all my "immigrant horror stories". I'll be posting them thru out the conflict. Peace!

[DeepModem Mom]

9. I wasn't focusing on that issue specifically, at all, Joanne --

I know it's been painful for many here. (I've myself kept out of it on the board.)

Keep on posting.

:)

[Orsino]

10. This is what democracy is *supposed* to look like...

...messy, nasty and divisive. Unanimity is for the pinheads on the other side. When you hear DU squabble, these are the noises that should be coming from everyone. The fascist nature of our real opponents loves to masquerade as law and order, or as peaceful coexistence.

We must try not to be fooled.

[DeepModem Mom]

13. Maybe "not so united" was a bad choice of words.

I do not, and would never, call for unanimity, except in the cause for which this board was founded, after the stolen election of 2000, as GW Bush was fraudulently installed in our White House. Democracy is messy, as Shrub likes to point out about Iraq. (Who'd think we'd find a point of agreement with him?) And divisive -- the primary wars here most surely fall into that category. That's okay. But I don't know that we should be needlessly nasty, among compatriots.

[Orsino]

18. By definition, we should never be needlessly nasty.

Compared to some other boards, DU seems pretty civil. Generally.

[Minnesota Libra]

23. But why can't "democracy" be handled with a little common courtesy nt

[Orsino]

25. Well, I think it usually is.

"A little," anyway. :-)

DU seems generally nicer than most other boards. I treasure the diversity of opinions, if not always the manner of their presentation.

[Minnesota Libra]

26. I agree diversity of opinions are a good thing.................

....because those diverse opinions make us think and reevaluate a given view. But it would be nice if those diverse opinions were actually tolerated and at least given consideration. There are some at DU who apparently don't even try to consider diverse opinions though.

Most of the time I agree completely with liberal political views and never have been, nor ever will be a neocon/fundie. Them creatures make me :puke:

Yet on occasion I have voiced an opinion that was more middle of the road and not in keeping with ultra liberal views. The response I got was absolutely unbelievable. More than one response to my views were deleted by moderators in short order. But it's possible that moderators had more than their fair share of work a few times because I had the opportunity to read a few of those messages that were eventually deleted. I've never reported a DU member and probably never will because I'm grown and can handle my own battles. But that kind of thing is uncalled for and language like that should never be used outside the city garbage dump.

It's the exact same find of despicable thing seen at FR when someone at DU provides a link. It just makes me wonder how liberals are supposed to convince people offline of the wisdom of the liberal message when we can't even hold our temper long enough to respond to one of our own.

[northofdenali]

11. I know I've been angry lately.

I don't think I've hit back at anyone, but I've read a lot of posts that have. Maybe I'm old school, but I still think you can argue with civility and respect for others' opinions, and still make your valid points. I hate to avoid the threads that MIGHT be flame-bait because most DU'ers have a lot of useful information and thoughtful opinions to add to any debate.

But my anger level has been so high, a combination of the mess this nation is in and fear over the future, as well as on a personal level, that I find myself avoiding everything where meanness is a possibility. And that is NOT what I joined DU for.

Thanks to all the DU'ers who've managed to help "keep it light" over the past few weeks. Once again, my sanity is saved.

DeepModem Mom, your points are well taken and I hope those of us who are really upset can get past it, and back to the discourse that we must have in order to take our country back.

:pals:

[Mnemosyne]

12. Well said DMM. k&r #5 happily! n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

14. What A Controlling And RW Thing To Say! Oh... Wait... No It's Not.

It's actually quite intellectual, rational, accurate and positive.

Kudos!

k & r

:toast:

[bigwillq]

15. Nice thread DeepModem Mom!

:toast:

K&R! :hi:

[Tsiyu]

16. Point taken

I have the philosophy:

You make me happy, I make you happy.

You make me miserable, I make you miserable.


Which means I can get vicious right back when someone is being vicious toward me or someone I respect. The posters who slay me are folks who can dish it out but who can't take it. Or the ones who have selective sensitivity.


You have to have a tough skin to be on this board, and you can't let what others say bother you. I say what I think and accept the consequences. I'm not here to win a popularity contest. I'm here to express my thoughts about the state of my nation.


FWIW I've seen it worse here than today, but not much

[Justpat]

17. I like a good argument as well as anyone,

but with the immigration issue I felt that few were engaging in healthy debate.
It seems that the beliefs on this issue are so strong for so many that they
forget to LISTEN to others.

I think DU should not be ashamed or afraid that some issues cause this kind of disagreement
among members. We will work it out if we listen to one another. The thing that revolts me
about Freeperland it is the lockstep mentality there. You either go along with the accepted
mind set on a certain issue, or you are history. That is not an intelligent or emotionally
secure position. It is a frightened, infantile mind set. DU is stronger than that. We will
survive this recent blow up and be stronger for it.

[AndyA]

19. I'm probably to blame from time to time.

I see posting at DU as a release. Sometimes there's so much going on, and the news is so one-sided about it, you let your emotions move faster than your fingers, and before you know it, you've already posted.

I think most people here are friendly, I don't feel a lot of confrontational instigators are lurking about, but I guess I could be wrong. As a group, I feel most of the time we tend to agree on things. The immigration issue is a hot topic, and there has been some disagreement with that, but I think it's pretty much that way on all forums.

I enjoy other points of view. You never know when someone will say something that will ring true to your heart, and change your mind, or cause you to reconsider something.

I think many of us feel somewhat frustrated because of what the Republicans are getting away with. January 2001 was a long time ago, and after so many years one gets weary.

[Neil Lisst]

20. When the Amazon flood waters recede, packs of piranha get caught

... in small ponds and lakes, with no ability to get out. They eat everything in the small body of water, then they turn and start eating each other, attacking any piranha that looks weak or vulnerable, attacking in packs.

Sound familiar?

[seabeyond]

21. i am not seeing a big difference. and i certainly saw the campaign 2006

differently from you. often i would find people anti kerry, and picking him to death. it was a continual battle to clarify what kerry truely was saying amongst all the antagonistic posts about the man. and from what i understand the primaries were even worse.

i am sorry that friends would be turned off by this board. even in argument i see a lot of worth on this board. one has to remember internet, people behave however they want, and there are simply a lot of disruptors. that is not going ot ever change. not to mention dem party has always been a place of diversity and not going to walk lock step, even though it would help us as a party. not going to happen

[BooScout]

22. DU is always like this....

It may just seem more so to you lately I guess. The best advice I can give is to use your ignore button. Sorry you are embarrassed..........but if you have 17,000 posts you should know that in all probability those with.............errrrr rather strong positions on an issue are going to be around when friends and family visit.

[pacalo]

24. So true.

I have to admit that I'm sometimes embarrassed I gave the link to my Journal to family and friends.

I can relate somewhat to that.

A good reminder that we need to be mindful of how we come across to new readers.