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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:50 PM
Original message
What's the Matter With America?
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 05:40 PM by SoCalDem
A while back, I read a statistic that showed just how isolated most Americans are. NINETY-THREE percent of Americans do not have (nor ever had) a passport. On its face, this is no biggie, since our own country is pretty big, and there are plenty of places to see right here in the US of A. The problem is that if only 7% of Americans (and that includes the diplomats who populate the government) have ever gone to a place remote enough to require a passport, we have pretty much built that wall around ourselves, with or without legislation.

Sure.. some folks have gone to Mexico, Canada, and the Caribbean, but my guess is that most of them rarely stray past the grounds of their 5-star hotels or far from family they may be visiting.

Two oceans and a gulf have put a natural barrier around part of our nation, but the invisible barriers we have residing in our psyches are the dangerous ones.

When we speak of poverty, most people in the US probably have a picture of AMERICAN poverty pop into their brains. Our nation of stay-at-homes has NO IDEA what real poverty is, and why it's such a powerful motivator to get people across the globe on the move. Millions of people live in such soul-shattering poverty, that risking death to leave it is not something they worry about much. Millions of mothers WATCH their babies die of malnutrition, thirst, curable diseases...They watch the children who manage to survive, succumb to conscription into militias or "marital slavery" while girls are still adolescents... They live with dirty water, no sanitation facilities, no permanence .. Their children, if they survive, often never attend school.

A large percentage of the people on earth live pretty much as they did thousands of years ago, with one exception. Back then, the environment they lived in was a lot more benign. Modern people have managed to pollute even the most remote regions, without ever having set foot upon that land.

We fret about "the Mexicans" and "the Haitians" and "the Cubans", and "the Muslims". Why IS that?

There are plenty of laws already on the books, to handle immigration issues and labor issues, but the people we hire to administer these laws have abdicated their responsibilities. People come here for the same reason, no matter what they believe in, to whom they pray, or what color they are. They come here because they CAN, and because they want a better life for their families. We, as a nation, make them feel unwelcome, so is it any surprise when they huddle together for safety, or when they don't learn English? We have a PRESIDENT who's barely fluent in English.

Our schools barely cover World History or Geography, and haven't for a while now, so even our young ones are not learning about the world. We don't venture out much, so all we "know" about other people is the stereotypical information that our so-called media feeds us. We see sound bytes (usually violent or sorrowful) of other places in the world. Some see what Discovery Channel or National Geographic chooses to show us about the world. A little is better than none, but most people are truly ignorant of the world.

As more and more indigent people of the world pour into their population centers, they get glimpses of modernization, and with it, they SEE America. They see it on TV, and is it any wonder why they see us as self-indulgent, boorish slugs?

They often have to move in the first place because of turmoil that our foreign policies birthed in their countries, or the loss of their habitat because of greedy western loggers and "oilmen". They come off their lands with a bitter taste in their mouths because of what's disrupted their lives, and once relocated, they see WHY they had to move..

They want the same things WE want, folks. They want a roof over their heads, food in their bellies, safety--so they can sleep at night, and they want their kids to grow up healthy and educated.. Is that really so much to want?

They live in abject poverty, but see our wealth flaunted on that screen. This is relatively new. Before satellites, their image of America would have been what they saw in outdated books, or imagined from the stories of fellow countrymen who had been here. NOW they can see it for themselves.

It's not hard to understand their ambivalence.. They do want to come here if they get the chance, but at the same time, they hold us more than a little responsible for their own circumstances.. (Our foreign policy, not our individual people).

I have lived outside the USA, and can tell you firsthand, that poverty elsewhere is like nothing we see here. It's true that their poverty is often a result of bad government and it's not the job of the US to "save the world", but as our own Prince Pissypants would say.."Isn't it better to help with their poverty "there" so we don;t have to do it "here"..? The money we waste on their failed leaders and militaries, would go a long way towards making their own societies liveable, so they would not feel compelled to risk it all, in an attempt to get here. Once here, we DO have to deal with their problems, so why not do more to help them there?

We hunker down in our warm homes, and bemoan our country being "invaded" by poor people, yet we are loathe to reach out a helping hand unless there's a tsunami, earthquake, hurricane, or some other natural disaster involved. We have made ourselves "conspicuous", and even though most of us are not wealthy, the rest of the world sees us as the "place where all dreams come true".

We better start helping their dreams come true locally, or they WILL keep trying to come here.





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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hey, I'm so isolated
I didn't even leave Alaska for 20 years. I see your point, though.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. You would be amazed to learn that some people here
think of Alaska and Hawaii as "foreign".. Whe I was a travel consultant, a couple asked if they needed "shots" to go to Hawaii :eyes:
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Oh, no, it's not so amazing...
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 05:59 PM by Blue_In_AK
You should hear some of the questions we're asked by tourists.


http://alaskanart.net/tourists.html

Here are some real questions and comments by real tourists. Believe it or not! These are all things we've personally heard or were heard by reliable witnesses. You can't make this stuff up:

Tourist woman overheard talking to a store clerk. "This trip is the longest I've ever been on, outside of the United States." We're all wondering why the US government has such a huge influence and presence in Alaska, and didn't she see the stars and stripes flying from every flag pole and boat in town?

"When is the longest day of the year here in Alaska?" asked a tourist from the lower 48.
"June 21st, the solstice" came the reply.
"Oh, here too?"

How long does it take for a deer to turn into a moose? Longer than you might think.


Reported from Skagway - At the Day's of 98 Show ticket counter a visitor asked "Is Robert Service really going to be here?" Upon being informed that he was dead, she countered, "But I saw his books." Anyone see Mark Twain around recently?

Tourist lady asked a local shop owner; "Can you tell me if there is a store around here that sells Woolly Mammoth wool? I'd like some to knit a sweater." (Um...the last mammoth wool-harvest was maybe six or eight thousand years ago, I'd guess. Maybe you should try further North, in a permafrost area, like the North Slope. If you've got a million dollars and all summer, you might be able to dig one up and then if you can figure out how to move it from the middle of nowhere and then get it past the BLM and Customs...did you want that wool with or without the hide attached?)

<<snip>>

There's more. We couldn't make this stuff up.

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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. LOL!!! Ooooh, you should post a collection of these.
I'd love to send them to a friend in Alaska.

"How long does it take for a deer to turn into a moose?" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Here's a few more..(not specifically Alaska)
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 06:09 PM by SoCalDem
http://www.roadandtravel.com/roadhumor/funnyquestions.htm

Ever ask a stupid question and later pray that no one would remember your verbal slip-up? Well, no such luck, at least not in the travel industry, where professionals seemingly have an extended memory just for the crazy things tourists ask. The Travel Industry Association of America recently polled travel professionals to put together a list of the funniest questions asked by tourists -- and here are ones that made us grateful there's not a list of the funniest questions travel writers ask.....

Does the sun set every night?

Are the Amish in season?

How long is a one-day pass good for?

What time does the 9 o'clock ferry leave?

How many miles of undiscovered cave are there?

Why is the CLOSED FOR CLEANING sign on the rest room?

When do they turn off the waterfalls? (at Yosemite Nat'l Park)

How come all of the war battles were fought in National Parks?

Why don't you have better marking in the places where trails do not exist?

Is that the same moon we see in Vermont?

Why don't you have more signs saying to keep the area pristine?

How much does it cost to mail a letter to the U.S.? (from an American tourist in Hawaii)

If it rains, will the fireworks be held inside?

Will I need my passport when I get off the ferry on Nantucket?

What is the altitude? (on a boat passing through the fjords of Alaska's Inside Passage)

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. and a "stupid tourists challenge" from a favorite site
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 06:12 PM by SoCalDem
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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. I've bookmarked that. Thanks. n/t
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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Very funny! Thanks. n/t
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. TRUE -questions to Oz Tourist Board
http://jelly.b3ta.com/questions/stupidtourists/

TRUE -questions to Oz Tourist Board

The following is from an email I received, great stuff...

The questions below about Australia, are from potential visitors.

They were posted on an Australian Tourism Website and the answers are the actual responses by the website officials, who obviously have a sense of humour:


Q: Does it ever get windy in Australia? I have never seen it rain on TV, how
do the plants grow? (UK).
A: We import all plants fully grown and then just sit around watching them
die.

Q: Will I be able to see kangaroos in the street? (USA)
A: Depends how much you've been drinking.

Q: I want to walk from Perth to Sydney - can I follow the railroad tracks?
(Sweden)
A: Sure, it's only three thousand miles, take lots of water.

Q: Is it safe to run around in the bushes in Australia? (Sweden)
A: So it's true what they say about Swedes.

Q: Are there any ATMs (cash machines) in Australia? Can you send me a list
of them in Brisbane, Cairns, Townsville and Hervey Bay? (UK)
A: What did your last slave die of?

Q: Can you give me some information about hippo racing in Australia? (USA)
A: A-fri-ca is the big triangle shaped continent south of Europe.
Aus-tra-lia is that big island in the middle of the Pacific which does
not... oh forget it. Sure, the hippo racing is every Tuesday night in
Kings Cross. Come naked.

Q: Which direction is North in Australia? (USA)
A: Face south and then turn 180 degrees. Contact us when you get here and
we'll send the rest of the directions.

Q: Can I bring cutlery into Australia? (UK)
A: Why? Just use your fingers like we do.

Q: Can you send me the Vienna Boys' Choir schedule? (USA)
A: Aus-tri-a is that quaint little country bordering Ger-man-y, which
is...oh forget it. Sure, the Vienna Boys Choir plays every Tuesday night
in Kings Cross, straight after the hippo races. Come naked.

Q: Can I wear high heels in Australia? ( UK)
A: You are a British politician, right?

Q: Are there supermarkets in Sydney and is milk available all year round?
(Germany)
A: No, we are a peaceful civilization of vegan hunter/gatherers. Milk is
illegal.

Q: Please send a list of all doctors in Australia who can dispense
rattlesnake serum. (USA)
A: Rattlesnakes live in A-meri-ca which is where YOU come from. All
Australian snakes are perfectly harmless, can be safely handled and make
good pets.

Q: I have a question about a famous animal in Australia, but I forget its
name.
It's a kind of bear and lives in trees. (USA)
A: It's called a Drop Bear. They are so called because they drop out of Gum
trees and eat the brains of anyone walking underneath them. You can scare
them off by spraying yourself with human urine before you go out walking.

Q: Do you have perfume in Australia? (France)
A: No, WE don't stink.

Q: I have developed a new product that is the fountain of youth. Can you
tell me where I can sell it in Australia? (USA)
A: Anywhere significant numbers of Americans gather.

Q: Can you tell me the regions in Tasmania where the female population is
smaller than the male population? (Italy)
A: Yes, gay nightclubs.

Q: Do you celebrate Christmas in Australia? (France)
A: Only at Christmas.

Q: I was in Australia in 1969 on R+R, and I want to contact the girl I dated
while I was staying in Kings Cross. Can you help? (USA)
A: Yes, and you will still have to pay her by the hour.

Q: Will I be able to speak English most places I go? (USA)
A: Yes, but you'll have to learn it first
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. LOL. (n/t)
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Branjor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. When I was little....
REAL little - I wondered if they had electricity in "the Great Midwest".

Guess I could be forgiven because of my age.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. My college friend (in 1968) thought there were still cattle drives
like on Rawhide..:)

On the way home for a visit, we had to stop so she could take a picture of some rancher and his sons out chasing a few stray cows.. :eyes:
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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. When I told my San Franciso co-workers...
that I was moving to Minnesota, they were stunned by my revelation that we actually have a nice, warm Summer here. They thought it snowed 12 months a year.
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #18
49. Hey, that "sun set every night" question isn't so silly
I'm traveling to St. Petersburg, Russia this summer during White Nights. :D
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
55. that's the funniest thing I have read in a while
hahaha

"how long does it take for a deer to turn into a moose?" heh.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Great post.
I have been out of the country quite a bit and have learned a ton by getting into the society around me. You are absolutely correct about the nature of poverty in other countries. Central America, Honduras in particular, blew my mind. It changes everything in your own life to witness it.

I am stunned about the percentage that don't have passports but then it is expensive to travel, especially now.

K&R, thanks. A good post for thinking about.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. lived in a village in Jamaica for a month...
okay, it was Jamaica (but I've been to "old Europe!" -- and hey, have a passport... put me on a "watch list!"), but it was a Jamaican village, and it was a full, long, eye-opening month! (while my ex-wife did some work there...)

It was an interesting contrast to take the bus into the nearest "big town," and see the "fellow Americans" wandering off the cruise ships, looking for souvenirs to buy, etc...
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. We did the same.. in Jamaica for 3 weeks. Didn;t you LOVE
grocery shopping? I became very adept at finding the "least moldy" bread...
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. that's funny you mentioned that -- the walk to the village grocer
...created some of the strongest memories of the trip.... through the rutted streets of the village itself, never sure which items they'd have on a given day, etc...

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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
40. exactly! menus
are just teasers in ja! :hi:
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
39. is that the
"hard dough" bread? :) j/k i love jamaica myself and have been a couple of times WITH passport;)
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Nope..just regular old store bread..but the heat and humidity
molded it in hours it seemed..

The meat markets reminded me of downtown Panama City..with uncut carcasses just dumped into barely cooled cases :(.. Wer stuck with what frozen stuff we could find, and of course fresh fruits & veggies..and seafood at local restaurants..
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. yes, i do remember
i went to jamaica right after the last big hurricane and there was almost no produce in the hi-lo in negril. most food goes bad pretty quickly in that kind of humidity. i brought peanuts once and they had the consistency of rubber.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. When we "discovered" Negril in 1973, there was NOTHING there
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 11:35 PM by SoCalDem
just a few ramshackle storefronts around the little roundabout.. It was raining the day we went there, and I can still remember the little empty, but beautiful beach that we walked on in the rain & picked up shells :) We had to hike through some mangroves to get there.. It was nothing to me, but it freaked my husband out to "walk through a swamp"..:rofl:
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. i've chatted online
with several folks like you who were in negril at the very beginning. i wish i could've been there too....have you discovered the south coast? it's supposed to be similar to old negril. my next trip will be to the south coast. i can't deal with the higglers.
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sbj405 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. Good post. I travel quite a bit.
Most people think I'm crazy when I tell them where I go or want to go. Few places in the world that I wouldn't want to go.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Me too.. I love the out-of-the way places
Others can flock to Honolulu, Hong Kong & Paris...but I prefer a quiet village in Moorea, Tahiti or a little town in Central America (any country there).. I enjoy seeing places that are off the beaten path..

Most cities are pretty much interchangeable these days.. My aunt & Uncle were "round-the-world" travelers (3 months a year)..and she always said " Gotta see it all while it's still there ".:)
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. Great post.
A day of reckoning was bound to come after decades of xenophobic (primarily) right wing mumbling/grumbling/whining about foreign aid being a complete waste and their refusals to provide it. Well....THEY'RE HERE!!

Thanks SCD.

Kicked/recommended.
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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. Excellent post, So. Cal. Dem.
I live in an area with a lot of college graduates who don't have passports. If they take an "exotic" vacation, it is to a safe and predictable location. Some of them are sending their kids to exactly the same schools they went to, and when I mention where I've lived and visited, they look at me like I'm a different species.

A Rethug neighbor, who restricts his life to a four or five mile radius, and I have had some very heated political arguments. As to why he doesn't support social services or labor issues: "It looks to me like everyone in our neighborhood is doing pretty well. I don't see any poor people."
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. To see poor people you have to OPEN your eyes..
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 05:37 PM by SoCalDem
We caught a glimpse of American poverty with Katrina, but it did not take more than a day or two for the media to start in on "looting, welfare, broken families, etc".. Before long, the whole issue had changed completely.

That's WHY there's so little being done down there NOW.. The "deserving folks" are still there, and that's enough.. There will be no poor people in the New New Orleans.. Worker-bees will be "commuters" from fringe areas.. The folks who are there now, are content to give lipservice to the ousted ones, but are no-doubt glad to be rid of people who "need stuf"..
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
41. right and most don't want to see
poverty. my own mother asked me "why do you want to go to jamaica? it's a third world country!" she thought i should go to hawaii instead. :eyes:

some of the most "poverty stricken" people, are the most beautiful in spirit.
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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. The America I grew Up In
no longer exists.


"Americans, rich or poor, now live in a culture entirely perceived through, simulacrum-media images and illusions. We live inside a self-referential media hologram of a nation that has not existed for quite some time now, especially in America's heartland. Our national reality is held together by a pale, carbon imprint of the original....Social realism is a television commercial for America, a simulacrum republic of eagles, church spires, brave young soldiers and heroic firefighters and "freedom of choice" within the hologram. America's citizens have been reduced to Balkanized consumer units by the corporate state's culture producing machinery."

"We no longer have a country -- just the hollow shell of one, a global corporation masquerading electronically and digitally as a nation called the United States. The corporation now animates us from within our very selves through management of the need hierarchy in goods and information. Sure there is flesh within the machine, but its animating force is a viral concept, a meme run amok..."

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2005/12/the_simulacran_.html

When I see all the posts talking about who is on "Hardball" or "Larry King" I have to believe that Joe Bageants essay is 99% correct. For every ounce of truth you may find the media, there's a pound of propaganda.

Not only have we retreated from the world as your post implies, we have retreated from our own culture and country. What else could explain the fact that *bush remains in office and continues to commit one outrage after another? Our media simply hasn't told us it's OK to get rid of him....yet.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. "Our media simply hasn't told us it's OK to get rid of him....yet."
As long as Bush serves the interest of Big Business, the media will continue to support him .... and then Jebbie ... and then ... <some other in the Bush Dynasty line up> :puke:
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. America watches Fox News and listens to Clear Channel Radio
That's the problem.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. It's sad, isn;t it?
One can only hope that people will start waking up, and tuning them out.. The sad thing is that there are probably a lot of people who watch them out of habit, and might watch other stations if they were not weak imitations of Fox..

If CNN or MSRNC ever got BOLD and started counter-programing, I think Fox would lose a lot of "viewers".

Too bad they don;t just try it for 6 months or so.. I think they would be pleasantly surprised.. It seems like such a poor business plan to deliberately exclude 50% of your business, escpecially when a competitor seems to have the same 50% you are after..locked up already :eyes:
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Yes, it is very sad and quite scary
I live in a red state - Oklahoma, and these people dont see Faux News as biased towards the right. But they can't stand CNN or any other news (except for Fox) because they are all (according to them) biased towards the left. And of course, Fox News is the channel of choice for the military, as is Rush Limbaugh. While at the same time, DoD blocks Air America from the computer networks. Another thong about these red staters - anytime I challenge them about Bush's failures, they blame it all on Bill Clinton. One more interesting point; the Bush administration is pushing for sharp increases in TRICARE for military retirees under the age of 65. You think the retired military folks are sending letters-to-the-editor? Nope. They all voted for Bush.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Oops!
Another thong about these red staters -
======
Silly me! What was I thinking. My mind is always in the gutter!!:)...
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. NO THONG THREADS...you rascal
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. I am such a rascal that
I'm adding your journal to the Blog Roll on my journal:).
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. You mean increases, or decreases, in "Try-to-get-care" for retirees?
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. Traveling is expensive
I for one can't afford to go anywhere besides Mexico or Canada or the US.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. Once upon a time I found a link
to an internet ranking site that let you input your living/economic data to see where you stacked up - percentage-wise - on the world's socioeconomic scale.

I was arguing with a friend over what "poor" meant.

My data was: own home, made $13,000 that year, running water, blah, blah. I ranked in the top 14%.

My friend made $35,000 at the time and rented a trailer. Her data indicated she was in the top 4%.

I wish I could find that site again.

Even the poorest of us is rich beyond measure when compared to the world.


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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Not what you mentioned, but you should watch this
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 06:39 PM by SoCalDem
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Sapere aude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
31. They don't have passports because they can't afford to travel.
If you can't afford to go out of the country what need is there to having a passport? There is no intent to build a wall around ourselves IMHO.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #31
52. RIght, and how much is a passport now, $65?
That's a lot if you make shitty wages and have to watch every dime. And if you're in that predicament you're not likely to do much travelling, anyway.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
32. Nothing...that is why hundreds of Chinese will die in shipping containers
just for a chance to come here and 'make it'. It is why Mexicans will suffocate in the back of a burning trailer, silent for the mere chance to make it across. People DIE everyday just to try and enter America, so they too can get lazy and fat and pampered on American Consumerism. America is still that mythical place immigrants from the four corners flock to and will for centuries to come.

What is wrong with America is the piece of shit government we have now that passes for a political/economic/social system. The U.S. Constitution is floating in the toilet, we are at war with some bozo nightmare shadowmen and corporate profits are up higher now then ever in our history because of the pain and suffering of thousands. THAT'S what is wrong with America!
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
35. BAD CASE OF BUSH FLU
Deadly virus known to kill countries if left untreated.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Sadly, bad foreign policy did not originate with bush..It's been going
on dor decades.. reagan turned it into an artform:(
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
37. Nice post, SoCalDem
Even a poor American has it much better than most people in the rest of the world.

I also find the widespread belief that Western governments and global megacorps are fundamentally benign entities that don't miss a single opportunity to help the poor worldwide at the expense of their citizens incredibly naive. Challenging this belief isn't easy, and invites incredible resistance because it forces people to face some unpleasant truths. Of course, if you hold firm and pursue the truth, you'll end up to the left of Chomsky, like I did :)
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
47. Maybe that has as much do with...
Edited on Tue Apr-04-06 01:01 AM by misanthrope
...the cost, real or perceived, of traveling overseas.

I've never left the country either, and there are still places that I want to visit stateside that I still can't manage to find either the time or money to see.

Does that make me a Philistine?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. Not at all.. You are aware of what's going on outside the US,
even if you don't actually go , but most people lack the basic curiosity about the rest of the world.

The fact that it's costly to travel SHOULD make people even more curious, but for some, it only makes them forget there IS a world out there beyond our shores :)
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
50. How is it that folks...
Edited on Tue Apr-04-06 03:43 AM by sadiesworld
who drive trucks or SUVs are energy-sucking assholes yet also manage to be ignorant boors b/c they don't hop on jets to travel to exotic locales?

Do people who travel extensively generally favor third world atmospheres or do they go to Europe and the "pretty parts" of poorer countries? Does this make them good, informed liberals or just energy-sucking assholes of a different ilk?

Is it possible that the boors can turn on their tvs at any given moment and see an ad for "save the children" (or some-such) and get a pretty good idea of global poverty w/o traversing the globe? Can they drive around their own neighborhoods (think the Appalachian region, the hollowed out industrial areas, the depressed areas in any major city, the gulf states post-Katrina) and see some fairly startling conditions? Did they figure out a long time ago that the US isn't really exemplified by HGTV and the talking heads were a bit late to the party when they discovered poverty in NOLA?

Is it reasonable to believe that those who cannot afford extensive travel may also be unlikely to live the sorts of lives where nannies, groundskeepers and the like are commonplace?

I'm sorry, I just can't quite figure out whether you hate so many of your fellow citizens b/c they're poor, or b/c they're not quite poor enough.

:shrug:

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. Not hating anyone here...
Just lamenting the fact that because of our size and location on the globe, we have few people whoDO get outside the "safety zone", and a school system that no longer values the rest of the world enough to teach kids much about it..

Watching poor people on "Save the children" ads has not made much of a difference in the over all scheme of things. Nor did the hurricane in New orleans. Our government seems to consistently turn a blind eye to poverty.. and since they are the people WE send to DC, unfortunately WE need to be the ones to turn them OUT,as well.. If most of the population doesn't feel empathy for the world's poor (not just our own), we cannot get the correct people into policymaking positions, and all our safety becomes "at issue" when we make more and more enemies around the world.
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. The elites could have solved the problem of global poverty
Edited on Tue Apr-04-06 12:56 PM by sadiesworld
decades ago but have chosen to allow it to continue.

What makes you think people AREN'T aware of global poverty? You genuinely believe that the citizens of this country are unaware that people starve to death and die of preventable illnesses every second?

Who are these "correct" people to manage policy? Those who will further destroy the middle class here at home? Surely you realize that these same corporate whores are DESPISED by the very people they are supposed to be helping abroad (think farmers, union members and REAL leftists in CA and SA).

The idea that it is now the responsibility of the barely-haves to give up any meager gains they've made in order to lift the have-nots out of destitution is one of the most reprehensible elite con jobs ever devised. That these trade and immigration policies further line the pockets of the elites is just a coincidence, I'm sure.
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tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. Because it sucks to hear...
...racist garbage being spewed out in different threads here at DU, from people that have never been to the places they keep harping about. It is pure ignorance plain and simple.

Turn on your TV? :eyes:

In other words, just because you went to Mexico on spring break 2 years ago to party with the rest of the frat-house does not does not make you an expert on immigration and foreign policy.
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DrGonzoLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. OK
So until we scrape together enough money to go live in a poor African village for a year, we can't have an opinion either?

It must be nice to be independently wealthy and go do things like that. The rest of us have, you know, bills and stuff.
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. What are you talking about?
People KNOW that life in Mexico (more so elsewhere) is extremely difficult and that's why the majority of illegal immigrants come here. Who is saying otherwise? Are you saying that people think Mexico is a paradise for most Mexicans? Could you show me where that is being alleged?

You're saying that tv, movies, books, etc., can't convey the problems which exist in poorer countries and you actually have to go there to be able to discuss the issues? The rhetoric is truly becoming absurd around here.
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novalib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
56. It's Expensive
For many people in the United States, it is expensive to take a trip.

There are, I think, many people in the USA who have never been outside the state they were born in.

There are others who have never been outside the United States.

For lots of these people, it's a question of money.

They haven't got enough. And what money they have needs to go for housing, clothing, medical expenses, food -- the basics.

It would be nice if all Americans -- or even a majority of Americans -- could afford to go to Europe, or Asia, or Africa, or Australia, or South America.

But, for many (if not most) Americans, such trips are far too expensive.

Perhaps that is why fewer than 10% of Americans hold passports -- They have to settle on a trip to the lake for their vactions.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
59. Let's see, I'd like to go to Italy,
But I'd have to save for three years to do it.

Travel is expensive and not getting any cheaper. I have no use for a passport. I have zero spare cash, a house in need of repair and a job that pays about what I need to accommodate COL . . . and that's it.

And as far as the "who the hell are YOU to deny someone a better life" argument? Hey, I'm all for people leading better lives, with one caveat - as long as it doesn't come at the expense of someone else's livelihood.. That "someone else" doesn't necessarily have to be American. It can be a European. It can be an African. They can be Russian. They can be Indian. The point is, rescuing Peter by murdering Paul isn't the way to go about saving the world and ending poverty.

For starters as to how to fix this problem, you might want to try talking to the REAL terrorists of this earth. I'll give you a hint - they wear $3000 suits, they're pasty white, they run the whole world (including the Simian currently holding the Blight House hostage) and they're laughing their asses off at how little paid, powerless and divided over bullshit issues we all are. They could change the world for the better in one YEAR if they wanted to. But they simply don't choose to.
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