"What if these three things are all true?" redux . . .

[OneBlueSky]

sometime back -- maybe a year or more -- I posed this question as heading for a new thread, and asked that you suspend disbelief for a moment to consider the possiblity of three things actually being true . . . despite everything that's happened since -- environmental degradation, Katrina, obscene Federal budgets, corruption, Iran, the economy, and all the rest -- I still can't help but feel that all of it pales in comparison to the probability that these three things actually ARE true:

1) The 2000 and 2004 presidential elections were stolen -- as were any number of state races in 2002.

2) BushCo's attack on Iraq was preordained well before 9/11 for multiple reasons (such as oil, and U.S. hegemony).

3) 9/11 was allowed to happen by the Bush administration -- and was likely facilitated by elements thereof.

what does it mean if these three things are, indeed, true? . . .

the more we know, the more likely it seems . . . and if these three things ARE true, the entire foundation of our democracy is already a massive pile of debris . . . and one that very likely cannot be salvaged . . .

assuming these things to be true, it seems to me that the ONLY kind of response that has any chance of making a difference is one that truthfully and accurately identifies the problems we face as a nation and a planet -- including the problems posed/implied by the truth of these three propositions . . . we simply cannot solve problems if we continue to avoid them, mischaracterize them, ignore them, or deny that they exist . . .

what this means to me is that we need candidates who are willing to run on a radical platform: The Truth . . . the truth about elections, the truth about Iraq, the truth about 9/11, the truth about the environment, the truth about energy, the truth about the economy (and the dollar), the truth about corporate control of Congress, the truth about poverty (both here and elsewhere), the truth about the racism behing the Katrina response -- the truth about EVERYTHING, including the unsustainability of "the American way of life" . . .

and what frustrates me no end is that I don't see anyone willing to do this, particularly at the presidential level . . . despite KNOWING the reality of the situation (these folks are not stupid), none of them has the courage to stand up and tell the truth, particularly truth that is most uncomfortable and hard to take . . . like the absolute truth that the American lifestyle as we know it is completely unsustainable and WILL change drastically, and soon . . . none of them seem to grasp the reality that at least attempting to manage that change is far preferable to allowing it to overwhelm -- and quite possibly destroy -- us . . .

sorry for the rant . . . my frustration level with the "Alice in Wonderland" approach to national and global affairs somehow reached an acute stage today, and I just had to vent a little . . . thanks for listning . . .

[rwenos]

1. Truth Shall Set You (Us) Free

If all that's true, then "Seven Days in May" has come.

Never underestimate the ability of human beings to deny what their own eyes tell them.

Bushco has been living on scaring the hell of Americans for six years. Common sense dictates they'll overreach (we're beginning to see signs of this already) and the Great Middle of the American body politic will SNAP BACK.

We just have to find some leaders with vertebrae, on the Democratic side.

[cartach]

2. Could'nt agree more.

Your second last paragraph sums it all up.I feel a similar frustration and many who participate in discussion forums such as this feel the same.However when talking with friends,neighbors etc.,nobody seems to want to discuss what's really happening.And these are fairly intelligent people who are aware,but only superficially.They don't want to delve very deeply into the important issues because they start to feel uncomfortable and they'll quickly change subject to something less heavy.They'll go on and on about mundane things but not want face up to the really important negative things that have been happening.I have one friend,highly educated,good job,who does'nt watch the news on TV and has cancelled his newspaper because he does'nt want his day ruined.It's a head-up-the ass mentality and their mantra is "don't worry,be happy".I'm not much of a student of history but it seems to me that the citizens of Nazi Germany,prior to and during WW2 were either gung-ho zealots,in denial or apathetic to the extreme,and look what happened there.The Democrats have to come out swinging and they have to guarantee change.If they don't then one has to wonder if they're really more interested in the power,and then God help us.

[newyawker99]

15. Hi cartach!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Peter Frank]

3. If These Things Are True...

Coordinate & send off a barrage of substantive letters & E-mails to representatives -- local, state, & federal.

Copy your letters & publish them online before they may or may not be ignored.

Now you have an "informal" record & time-line that's harder to ignore than (documented) snail-mail.

[DLnyc]

4. Nice rant. And true.

--
"Alice in Wonderland" approach to national and global affairs
--

well put.

my post on a similar subject, I think: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=756583&mesg_id=756583

[Peter Frank]

5. Partly True...

...Too much hand wringing.

[DrDebug]

6. Nice rant. One point though. The first objective was Afghanistan

It's very obvious that Afghanistan was already completely planned and organized by September 11. Since the US attacked Afghanistan on October 7, 2001 which was less than one month after 9/11 and would have been insufficient time to plan and organize a mission of that scale.

It was not the first time, Bush sr had a similar war:

Operation Just Cause was the U.S. military invasion of Panama that deposed Manuel Noriega in December 1989, during the administration of U.S. President George H. W. Bush.

The reason for the invasion was the death of a U.S. soldier in Panama at a Panama Defense Forces roadblock on December 16. On December 20 the United States invaded Panama.

[B Calm]

7. There is a lot of disparity and hopelessness in this country since

this SOB and the republican party have taken over our democractic republic.

[Heidi]

8. Recommended.

We'll never arrive at the truth if we're unwilling to engage in civil discourse (like this thread) about our suspicions. Good rant.

[Swamp Rat]

9. 4) Bushler allowed New Orleans to drown on purpose in order to experiment

with Martial Law/suspension of Posse Comitatus and to give lucrative contracts to Halliburton, et al.

[OneBlueSky]

10. point taken . . . and they were able to do this because . . .

those displaced were poor persons of color, rather than affluent whites . . . would have been a different story in other places . . .

[driver8]

11. Great post! There are a lot of people with their heads in the sand

who refuse to acknowledge what is happening to our country. Anyone who thinks that we are living in a democracy these days is obviously not paying attention.

I absolutely believe that the 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen. There is so much evidence to support this idea and there are a lot of people who don't want anyone to see or hear this evidence. What are they hiding? If our elections are so fair, put the facts out there and let the people of this country see for themselves what has happened to our democracy.

We have been lied to since day one of this administration and nothing has changed. They are absolutely unwilling to tell the truth about anything -- party before country and everyone must do their part to protect the boy-king. I would not believe these people if they told me that the sky was blue or that water was wet.

I cannot wait for the day when this "house of cards" comes tumbling down. I cannot wait for the day when these criminals are finally held accountable for what they have done to our country.

[HamdenRice]

12. Exactly what I believe -- what to do? Support Al Gore!

I think this is such an important post. I also believe that these three things are true. Most people cannot deal with the idea of these being true for two reasons -- first, because of the psychological condition of cognitive dissonance, and second, because even if you accept they are true, believing them seems to place you far out of the mainstream, even among progressives.

But as more people realize that others also believe them to be true, it becomes safe to talk about them. Look at the LIHOP/MIHOP claim, number 3. It used to be that this was always dismissed as the craziest of conspiracy theories. But a relatively recent Zogby poll showed that about 1/2 of New Yorkers don't believe the official story, and a recent unscientific CNN poll showed that 80% of respondents did not believe the official story.

Oddly, I think celebrities will play a big roll in making these ideas acceptable to speak of. For example, Charley Sheen's recent statements generated several days of CNN coverage and the CNN poll I mentioned above. Reportedly, Ed Asner was prepared to do a follow up interview with CNN and call the 9/11 official story a "fairy tale."

If the majority of people come to know these three things, then there will not be an ordinary political response; there will be a massive deligitimizing of our current political system. This is what terrifies the elites. After the disorder of the 1960s followed by Watergate, there was a similiar national experience of deligitimization. It became impossible for elites to govern for some years, and I believe that this is why many who know these truths are afraid to speak them: for the "good of the country" and "stability."

But from what I've seen Al Gore is actually confronting the truth. He knows first hand that national elections have been stolen. He has been speaking out about the dismantling of the constitution. And he has hinted in the February speech that the administration could have prevented 9/11.

I think even someone like Gore would have to introduce these truths to the American people in a way that does not get out of hand. They have to be introduced to people with a progressive agenda already devised to let people know there is a way out of the nightmare. We might have rational, legal responses to the disclosure of immense corruption, the dismantling of democracy and mass murder; but what would those people out in the red states, who already believed during the Clinton years in "black helicopters," "Jewish banker" conspiracies, "mud people" prepared to take over the country -- all the regressive false conspiracy theories that teach violence and hatred. There would be armed right wing militias marching on Washington if these three facts became generally believed, and there were no intellectual framework in which to understand them.

I think Al Gore is the only figure who could both tell the truth and provide a map out of the nightmare.

[electropop]

13. I have been pretty sure about all of them for years.

It's a pretty long leap from our current politico-media mindset to reality though. We'll keep on plugging away; they'll keep on ignoring us.

[Festivito]

14. and MSM, and CIA unChurchED (as in Senator), ...

TIA for a convicted felon, Washington Times extortionable pedophilia connecting to Homeland Security, ...

Democracy depends on the power of we the people. And, DU has not had a gun rights fight in many many months, where we used to have them all the time.

For the sake of our nation, keep your power dry. But, talk it out, more and more.

[yodermon]

16. I will say it.

If they M/LIHOP, THEN imagine the destruction they will wreak when they ostensibly lose power in the elections this fall.

If you believe MIHOP, then you must NECESSARILY believe that they are capable of doing it again.
Democratic control of Congress (and/or the WH) is the ideal scenario for another MIHOP, because then they can blame the DEMS for having it occur on their watch.

We on this board are of the naive belief that the removal of the repukes from power, either via elections, impeachment, or both, will somehow rectify the situation and make everything all better. Please. The political landscape is just a front company for the entities who MIHOP, and they will adjust their tactics accordingly as the landscape shifts.

Do we really think that their political or even legal comeuppance will actually deter entities who are perfectly willing to wage outright war against the people of the United States?

We live in a Corporatocracy, and as such, our "Democratic" institutions (or even "Constitutional Republic" if you like) are a shell game, a front, a sham.

Sorry for being so cynical, but out political process is just so much masturbation in the face of the power They wield.