Germany, circa 1933. Are we there yet?

[Lori Price CLG]

Germany, circa 1933. Are we there yet? --Compilation by Lori Price 05 Apr 2006 Keywords/summaries from today's Citizens For Legitimate Government newsletter, detailing aspects/actions of the illegitimate Bush regime: 'Secret American prisons' (The New York Times), 'black site prisons,' (Houston Chronicle) ''black-masked ninja' US operatives' (The Independent), '1,000 (secret) flights directly linked to the CIA' (Reuters), 'abducted and mistreated' (BBC), 'illegal imprisonment and torture' (BBC), 'denying a U.S. citizen legal rights for more than three years' (The Globe and Mail), and 'military trials' (ABC News). Oh. Lest we forget: US readying new counterterror plan --I can hardly wait!

[rwenos]

1. Not Quite Yet

Bushco has not yet targeted an established part of our society for marginalization, as Hitler did the Jews. Hitler targeted other fringe groups for elimination in the New Reich (homosexuals, the handicapped and retarded, the sick and elderly, and Gypsies), but the real impact came when he targeted the Jews, because they were such a part of the economy and social fabric of Germany and Central Europe.

Bushco has only targeted fringe elements (Muslims, gays, intellectuals). He got a lot closer to 1934 with his behavior regarding New Orleans, but I still think there's room for a dramatic event, like Krystalnacht, as his October surprise this fall (gambit to hold onto the Congress).

[dchill]

4. Uh...

what about us "Liberal Traitors" - if we're not with him, we're against him. And we are.

I feel targeted - don't you? Even the news media is marginalizing us. Don't look now, but it's at least early December, 1932 in Amurika.

[rwenos]

5. Targeted Indeed

Sure, I feel targeted, as you do. I haven't had any jackbooted thugs at my door yet. More like the RW kids torment my daughter in middle school because she gave a pro-Choice speech.

It's a question of degree. You and I ARE targeted. We're just not getting beat up, shot, arrested and sent to relocation camps yet.

But there's always that October surprise! What do you think Bushco will do just before the November elections?

[dchill]

7. The first thing they will do...

is attack Iran. But any thinking person knows it will be a multi-faceted approach to keeping power. They'll have to bring out the imaginary millions of fundagelical voters again to explain the Democrat-favoring pre-election polls. They'll find lunacy and treason in everyone who is up against them. The media, of course, will Pavlov all over these strategies, just like 2000, 2002, and 2004. The main difference will be that there are thousands more "proprietary code" electronic voting machines in place than last time.

All that, and, as you said, an unexpected "October Surprise" - much fun ahead for all. It is a question of degree, but it's a relatively small degree at this point, and it shrinks with every passing day and every new Republican scandal. Frightened animals often attack.

[autorank]

2. Lori, I'm seeing these all over DC. What do you think? Recommended.

I mean, it could just be a "coincidence."

[rwenos]

3. Sieg Heil

Great image! But WAY too close to the truth!

[Lori Price CLG]

6. Thanks, autorank, and that pic says it the way it is!! It's great! n/t

[autorank]

33. rwenos and Lori...That's from the "Classical Age" of DU photoshipping

just after the 2004 election I believe. I wish I could remember the user who did it.

It's always there, waiting...for the right moment.

[EST]

8. Way past.

The most hated group in America is the one loosely designated "libruls." Even people who, in their general outlook, would be viewed as liberal, due to mob mentality, gladly join in with liberal bashing.
Even in Soviet Russia the "news" outlets, such as Izvestia and Pravda, were encouraged to attack local miscreants, crooked politicians, etc., but the party bigwigs were off limits.
The Nazi party rode to power just as the republicans have--through opposition to and condemnation of gays and liberals, hokied up so-called attacks on otherwise respected institutions (war on christmas, war on christians,) and a law-n-order approach to public policy that got the approval of most citizens, as well as the catholic church.
Many people were rightly concerned, but, in their go along to get along attitude, were not able to sway the public toward a more liberal course because of fear of appearing weak, not wanting to attract attention, or simply being too busy with the day-to-day demands of staying alive and feeding their families.

The big lies were just exactly like what is going on right here, right now. The same splitting up of society, the same encouragement of certain elements to consider themselves as superior to others-on and on. It's enough to make you sick.

We need to take off the "it can't happen here" blinders and see the hard, cold truth. It already has happened here and it is happening more and more every day.
If anyone is foolish enough to think this evil administration is even remotely considering getting voted out of power and allowing the John Conyerses of the country to claim subpoena power and with it, prosecutorial authority, they are living in a dream world.

Even the diebolding of elections can be justified in the fevered, psychotic brain as a true generosity of spirit. The declaration of dictatorship will not be called what it is, but will be justified as avoiding unnecessary bloodshed, for our own good, of course.

No doubt, this will be viewed by many as dark tin foil hattism, but that's exactly what happened in the transformation of a modern, high tech Germany into Hitler's totalitarian state.
The problem is that it can't be seen, as an obvious picture, until it is far too late to do anything about it.

[Swamp Rat]

9. We're not far off.

If Bushler stays in power...

[dipsydoodle]

10. The principal cause of the Nazi's rise to power

was low voter turn out in the very early 1930's. They got a high turnout form their supporters and those who couldn't be bothered to vote were hence stuffed. It was almost fluke circumstances which, as you are aware , eventually gave rise to horrendous circumstances.

You now have a situation whereby the polling machines could give the same effect -obviously artificially.

The depiction of the Gestapo in films is only partly accurate. The majority of them were information gatherers for "Homeland Security" Most of them were just like your local librarian. The idea was that if you suspected your neighbour of being Jewish, gay, mentally or physically disadvantaged or simply of odd behaviour <don't english people use quaint expressions> , you reported them as being so and a record was then kept. Many of those records still exist. I was reminded of of this while watching the film Brazil, which in some respects is strangely analagous to the present, a couple of days back. There was a poster which read : SUSPICION LEADS TO CONFIDENCE. Maybe that's the bit which has yet to occur in the USA - or has it already started ?

[leftchick]

11. I think so

:(

[livvy]

12. There is one thing which works in our favor.

One reason Hitler was popular and "accepted" by the citizenry, was because the middle class, the average German citizen (of course, not the targeted citizens), did better economically under his administration. People who did not have jobs, and there were many, were able to find work to support their families. His despicable policies did not personally affect them, as long as they kept their noses clean, and did their jobs.
That is not happening here. The middle class and the poor are not being helped in any way. Only the wealthy and politically connected are seeing any benefits under the * administration.

[Chulanowa]

13. No, we're not

For one, there are still non-Republican parties running around. Only one of them may have ashot at winning anything consistantly, but that's one more than the Nazis would keep around.

The main reason we're not at 1933 yet is because 1) the Nazi had a plan, 2) they knew how to conduct the plan, and 3) hitler was a charismatic and capable guy.

What we have is 1) A party (Republican'ts) with a halfassed plan that 2) they don't know how to enact in a more thna peicemeal way that is 3) led by a coterie of obvious baboons and criminals.

Nazi Germany pulled itself up from the absolute pit to become the most powerful nation on earth for a few years. We are heading i nthe opposite direction. At the moment, America has far more in common with a Central American / African banana republic than with hte Third Reich. We are being ruled by petty robber barons, not megalomaniacal warlords.

[paparush]

15. PNAC drafted a VERY Detailed Plan...

which is being followed lock-step by this administration, complete with "a catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor."

Bush is claiming everything he does is legal, or beyond legal scrutiny. The Nazis hid behind the same arguments...the laws were on the books.

[IndyOp]

14. The American Holocaust

If we count deaths caused by US policies in just Vietnam and Iraq, our nation has killed over 5,000,000 people since the start of the Vietnam War.

We did not export some of our own citizens and kill them, but does it matter?

Is it Germany 1933 or Germany 1941?

I know that I am sickened and becoming moreso daily.

The American War (as the Vietnamese call it) caused the deaths of 4,000,000 Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians.

Real Shock & Awe: After 15 Years War & Sanctions 1,000,000 Iraqis Dead

Persian Gulf War: 150,000
Gulf War Aftermath: Many thousands
UN Sanctions: Primary cause of 600,000 deaths
Iraq War: 250,000

[htuttle]

16. Geopolitically speaking, we already invaded Czechoslovakia

The lack of action by the UN to stop us, and their defacto legitimization of our invasion of Iraq (after the fact) was the equivalant of the Treaty of Munich.

I think an attack on Iran might be our invasion of Poland.

Then it's anyone's guess what will happen.

[gordianot]

24. Good analogy, I think the time line may be different.

I tend to equate Iraq with the invasion of Poland. It has even been partitioned by factions. We are already in the midst of World War III (circa 1939). The collapse of mid east oil spells ruin for Europe and the United States, at some point they will really be willing to kill for it.

Mutual Assured Destruction still rules the day.

[htuttle]

28. They say that history never really does repeat itself...

...but sometimes it rhymes.

[Neil Lisst]

17. Absolutely not! ... more like about October, 1931 Germany!!

But you're in the ball park.
Nazis v. Bushies jargon
communist = liberal
Jews = terrorists

[Canuckistanian]

21. But the Jews were a real domestic target

"Terrorists" are not a domestic reality. As much as they talk about "fifth columnists", the reality gets in the way of their rhetoric.

Although, that doesn't stop the propaganda.

[Neil Lisst]

22. we're a long, long way from the excesses of even early 1930s Germany

but the historical corollaries are strong enough to make commenting on same worthwhile

[Canuckistanian]

23. Yes, I agree

A disturbing trend, but few signs of mass incarcerations or draconian law changes.

[Neil Lisst]

26. my fear is that all that could change almost over night under Bush

An alleged "attack" that calls for strong measures. He could leap to filling those detention centers with dissenters very quickly. Disrupt some opposition centers. Suddenly, we've living that horror.

[Lori Price CLG]

31. Wait until bird flu 'arrives' on U.S. shores - likely on the day

a big revelation about Bush's complicity in 9/11 emerges in the mainstream media.

The bird flu doesn't even have to arrive on US shores - the Bush regime just has to *say* it's here... Get ready for the FEMA camps and KBR detention centres.

Lori Price

[Neil Lisst]

36. I agree. The bird flu threat has the double benefit of helping Pharm

[cali]

18. No, we're not there yet.

And the conditions that produced 1933 Germany are different from the ones that produced 2006 America. Still, the danger that we could arrive at a similar place, is present.

And for fuck's sake, folks, this business about liberals being targeted is as silly as the faux war on Christians. Sometimes the symmetry between right and left is striking. I go to my dinky peace and justice meetings without fear. I write LTTE, and espouse liberal views in other forums; I don't spend any time worrying about the sound of jackboots in the middle of the night. Hell, I don't even lock my door.

[lastliberalintexas]

19. Haven't you posted that you live in Vermont?

If so, come to Texas for a few days and see if you feel any differently about how liberals are targeted these days. No, it isn't the actual government officials that we fear down here- it's the mouth breathing rednecks who might just carry out the threats that the republican party has been feeding them on a subliminal level for a decade. I live in an area where Bubbas driving jacked up trucks will drive within a foot of your car with Bubba shouting vile things at you because he disagrees with your "Blessed are the Peacemakers" bumper sticker, or where people's cars routinely get keyed. Or in parts of Georgia (IIRC) where one can get fired for having a Kerry sticker on one's car. No, the government isn't after us- but that doesn't mean liberals aren't targeted in parts of the US today.

I do agree with you, though, that we're not in 1933 Germany, though we do have many similarities.


(and btw, I actually live in a Dem area where the people of whom I write are in the minority- I can't imagine how bad it is for liberals in places like West Texas or Idaho and Wyoming)

[cali]

20. Yes, I live in Vermont

but I don't live in Burlington, I live in the Northeast Kingdom, the only truly redneck area of the state. I believe the NEK, comprised of the three Northeastern most counties in the state, is the only area that went for bush in the last election. People here tend to me more religious and more likely to be in the armed services than in other parts of the state. My small town of under 3,000 has lost two soldiers in Iraq. Granted, there are still lots of liberals around, but where I live ain't Burlington by a long shot.

I know it's worse in other parts of the country, but my point, which you noted, is that the government isn't targeting liberals.

[NNN0LHI]

25. I bet the Mexicans are feeling like it coming soon n/t

[Gabi Hayes]

27. check it out: USA PATRIOT Act vs. Nazi Enabling Act

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=775739

[Mnemosyne]

37. Thanks for the link Gabi, missed it first time around.

:hi:

[passy]

29. We're already in 1938.

Where have you been the last five years, the coup happened in 2000.
It's just that with 9/11 blinkers on it's been kinda hard to see the founding of the Fascist States of America.

[LuCifer]

30. I thought we were there back in Dec. 2000

Thank you SCOTUS for hating America!

[Gregorian]

32. We are always "there".

Like my father says- Rome is always burning. (Excuse me, but right now I'm looking out my window at a herd of elk. Even before I read this post, I was watching them as they so incredibly carefully and sensitively thought about every step they took. They know one false move could be into the path of a hunter. That is primarily what they are concerned about. The predators are far and few between. Elk can see through walls almost. It's incredible. It's how they stay alive.) We are no different. And we are always going to be living with people who are greedy and evil. They find smart ways to feed off of us, and find unique ways to corner us into following their agendas. We were lazy. We let Reagan lull us with his lullabies. I'm constantly bothered by those, who even like McCain, who has a modicum of morals, still can't fall out of love with the R party. So it's more than a case of laziness on our part. It's a battle to win the hearts and minds of those who would not know better than the R party. America is just an example. Send us your poor, and huddled masses. It's an example that includes the whole world. And the world would be a better place if it followed that example. Simply put, it's called love. We're awake now. The next Hitler or Bush is right around the corner.

[Vidar]

34. More like '38--invaded two countries but haven't been slapped for it yet.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

35. We've been there since December 2000. It's there for all to see....

...and yet, we still have large numbers of people that deny that a coup took place during the 2000 election.