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Why did monarchies go out of vogue as a form of government

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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:46 AM
Original message
Why did monarchies go out of vogue as a form of government
in Europe (and some other places)? Citizens started electing prime ministers and Parliaments.

But WHY did it happen? I think it's connected with the decline of feudalism, the development of guns, and with these changes it was more difficult for one family to consolidate as much power as was needed to seize the throne and keep it.

I know many countries such as the UK and Sweden still have monarchs, but they have no power. And then some countries, seems most of them Middle Eastern, still have monarchs who do have power.

Any ideas?

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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Knowledge of the reality of their
rule, and the of the true mechanics of power.

Hard to believe that someone is annointed by God when they make mistakes which are all too human.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Hard to believe PRESIDENTS are anointed by God.
If so, God must really be P.o. at Americans.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. Plus you have more power bases
In the old world you had the Church and the Crown as the only real power centers - the rise of the merchents and their power lead to democracy of a sort.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. And soon there will be no middle class (i.e. "merchants") again....
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. That's possible
I don't think that's written in stone, however.

But I'm optimstic.

Bryant
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Just reporting on the trend here in the US. 8^(
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redwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
3. Peasants got tired of eating cake and being oppressed
especially by the inbred and tyrannical. I think.
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Corruption, power abuse. The usual story
The only reason why some monarchies are still around is because they faded to the back and haven't been disposed by revolution yet.

P.S. There is no such thing as a monarchy without power. They all have very significant political power and are still untouchable and above the law.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. Enlightenment ideas became too popular, for one.
The American Revolution was a destabilizing event in that respect. In a few short years, France would undergo its own revolution albeit in a far bloodier manner. However, it all didn't fall down like a deck of cards; it took a couple more centuries for the monarchies to be overthrown.

WWI saw to it that most of the European monarchies were destroyed. Austria-Hungary disintegrated. The Czar was overthrown and replaced with the Bolsheviks. The Kaiser abdicated his thrown, and the Ottoman Empire collapsed, and its lands were taken by France, Britain, and other powers.
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400Years Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. The Ottoman Empire didn't just collapse

I know you probably know this but Britain had very much to do with the destruction of the Ottoman Empire.

There is a book by David Fromkin titled A Peace to End All Peace which deals with this subject in great detail.

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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. It happened because of the rise of a moneyed bourgeoisie
and they deeply resented the interference of the hereditary aristocarcies who were sneering at anyone "in trade." Since money is power, the new money class worked diligently to end the power of the old money class.

The peasants were used as a method of doing this. There is nothing like rioting peasants at the gate to persuade the king to cede a little power, usually after he's slaughtered the rioters and had a little time to think things over.

The American colonies provided an example for the more extreme revolutions, from France to China, that a country could exist very nicely without a hereditary monarch. Other countries were content to keep the monarch as a figurehead. All moved power away from the monarch and toward the money.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. You Beat Me to It
Karl Marx said nicer things about the bourgeiousie than most neolib economists ever have.

In a lot of European countries, the dukes, earls and other nobility had a lot to do with the decline of the monarchy, too. It was a battle between the mid- and upper levels, both in government and trade.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
9. All about the middle class...
The rise of the middle class meant both the death of feudalism and also the beginning of an entire class of people with money and power who didn't fit into the traditional structure of society.
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Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. We have monarchies in this country, they are called......
corporations. They have all the power and even our president and congress bow down to large corporations.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. Big Business is the new aristocracy.
Meet your new boss! Same as the last one!
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
11. Even the best King or Queen....
Could be followed by an idiot whose only qualification was being their Eldest Child.

(Just one reason.)
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
14. long hard civil unrest
I highly recommend the following free audio recording at link,
if you want some more visceral materiel of how the social unrests
of the last 1000 years of class war.

The Peasants' Revolt of 1381
Speaker: Paul Foot
Recorded: April 1981, the 600th anniversary of the Peasants' Revolt

http://mp3.lpi.org.uk/
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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
15. Too much hunger
Hungry people tend to eat the rich. The elites have since learned to give just enough to prevent this scenario. If/when they forget the conclusion of unfettered greed, it will happen again and the corporate kings will fall as well.
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Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
18. Better communications, is my thought.
When people spent most of their lives within 20 miles of their birthplace, and hardly ever met anyone travelled, and the only outside news was that provided by people funded by royalty to travel on business or spread news, it was easy to believe that some distant, vaguely benevolent King or Queen ruled with your best interests at heart.

As more people could travel, so could rumors not under royal control. As literacy rates rose, people from distant areas could better stay in contact.

The printing press not only allowed for standardized books and education, but also for leaflets and news prints, whih could be distributed on a larger scale.

All these things informed people. Made them aware of a larger world. Made them aware of what tiny cogs they were, and how the machine of which they were part was geared to benefit royalty, and royalty alone.

That knowlege created social pressures which only rarely erupted into outright revolt, as in France. More often it has caused the gradual replacement of the command of royalty with the command of more publicly appointed figures.

That's my view of it, at least.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
19. Excessive inbreeding = stupider generations after stupider generations
eventually, people just lost interest in having them..and they cost a lot..

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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
20. here's an image from wikipedia showing forms of government
Edited on Wed Apr-05-06 10:34 AM by Bill McBlueState


* blue - presidential republics, full presidential system
* yellow - presidential republics, semi-presidential system
* red - republics and constitutional monarchies with parliamentary systems
* purple - monarchies in which the monarch still exercises power
* brown - states in which a single party is constitutionally linked to power and military-ruled states

Note how few purple countries there are. It's Morocco, a few countries on the Arabian peninsula, and a couple in the Himalaya. ...and possibly one or two in the Pacific.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
21. The printing press contributed, by increasing literacy
and putting in people's hands (literally) something (i.e., the Bible, usually, but also works of science and philosophy) that they considered to have more authority than the king. The printing press decentralized the control of information and knowledge.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
22. First look at who had the REAL power in a Country
And you MUST different between countries that had Kings imposed on them and the effect of Universal Military Service had on the power structure within most countries.

In the Middle East you still have Emirs, Kings, Shahs etc, but if you look at these Countries "Dynasties" you will find out they go back no more than 2-3 generations. For example the Shah of Iran inherited Iran from his Father (When the British wanted the old Shah out). But how did the First Shah get power? While he took it in a Military Coup and declared himself "Shah". His son, had become almost a figurehead by 1954 when the son (Lead by the CIA this time) made himself dictator while retaining the name "Shah".

If you look to Latin America a similar situation occurred but instead of calling themselves "King" or "Emperor" their called themselves "President". Example of this was Papa and Baby Doc of Haiti and Somoza in Nicaragua (and Kim the present Ruler of Korea who inherited it from his Father). These rulers had the full power of a King but found the name "President" a better name to use.

If you look at the old Royal Families of Europe, they are NOT that much different than the above Latin American Dictators and Arab Emirs. Not a one of them predates the 9th Century in the male line (Some do go before that date by only through a woman). Many trace themselves to Peasants from the Middle Ages who joined the Army and moved up in Command like the Shah, and Somoza. With the Renaissance efforts were made to "fix" the nobility of Europe and thus restrict the groups that supported the King. With this reduction of power of the Peasants the Nobility ruled.

With the Raise of the Middle Class you had a conflict between the old Nobility and the Middle Class. This ended up in the English Civil War of 1640-1648 and the French Revolution of 1789-1801. In many ways these were fights between the Middle Class and the Nobility. After the Middle Class won, the Revolution was continued by the Working Class. This tended to scare the Middle Class who looked for Stability in the form of a strong leader and than the return of the King and Nobility (In England you had Cromwell and the Commonwealth than the Restoration, in France you had Napoleon and than the Restoration of the French Monarchy).

Now France had a subsequent Revolution in 1848 which lead to Emperor Napoleon III who was replaced in 1871 (and in 1871 France wanted to restore the King but the Heir to the Bourbon Throne would NOT be a king under the Tricolor thus a Republic was selected only as a temporary solution but then the Heir lived longer than expected so by the time he died France had come to accept the Third Republic).

The rest of Europe followed the same process, A King who was a real power supported by his Nobility. A Revolution (often tied in with the French Revolution) that gave power to the Middle Class, this lead to a military Tyrant as the Revolution threaten to go to far (and when the Tyrant has stabilized the Country by Force, he is replaced by a Restored King as the Middle Class want to maintain they own power through use of the Law).

The US avoided this barely for Washington did not want to be a Cromwell (Through they were people who wanted him to be one, including many of the officers of the US Army). We opt for a Republic but even the US had earmarks of Monarchy (Just look at the Presidency, it is a Constitutional Monarchy in power formation).

Now in the 1800 in a effort to keep revolutions down, Monarchy was the preferred form of Government, often imposed on Newly Independent European Countries by the Powers of Europe. In many ways these new Monarchs of the 1800s were in reality Military dictators imposed on these Countries. They often had no power base within the Country EXCEPT in context with the major powers. Now most of these new Monarchs actually tired to live a Kings of their new Countries and often highly respected within the Country, but the real power was in the political structure of the Country who directed how these monarchs were to rule.

We tend to forget how REVOLUTIONARY Republics were viewed in the Mid-1800s. They were rare BEFORE the French Revolution and almost all die out during the Revolution (For Example the Dutch Republic became the Dutch Monarchy during or right after the Wars of the French Revolution as did Venice and the few other republics in Europe. This continued till WWI (and even France the First choice had been a King not a Republic in 1871).

Come WWI you had Revolution in the air as the Communists and their Allies threaten to overthrow the above Middle Class Constitutional Monarchs. Either to Appease these movements OR to address the Concerns of these Movements, Republics were declared for those New Countries formed after WWI (Poland, Turkey, Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and the other Countries formed out of the old Ottoman Empire and Austria-Hungary Empire).

Russia Declared itself a Republic of self ruling "Soviets" (Thus the Name for the old USSR, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics). Those countries that had Kings before WWI kept they king EXCEPT if they were on the losing side of WWI OR Russia. Even here the Western Powers would have preferred a King but realized to impose a King on the Defeated Countries would have turned enough people against the West and right into the Communist Party. This fear of Communism killed the official policy of imposing Kings on New Countries, but strong men were still imposed, called Presidents instead of King but having all the power of the Dictator.

For example the Wiemar Republic had a way for the President of the German Republic to change and impose new laws WITHOUT the consent of the German Diet. This was the power Hitler wanted. By 1930 Hitler had the power to STOP any legislature overturning such Presidential laws once he had the ear of President Hindenburg his power was absolute (In fact the Enabling act giving absolute power to Hitler was NOT to give that power to Hitler but to the Chancellor and the President of Germany. The German people were willing to give absolute power to Hindenburg but not Hitler. Hitler knew this so provided that the power the the Presidents and waited for Hindenburg to die. Once Hindenburg died in 1934 Hitler grabbed the position of President and merged it with his position of CHancellor to the new position of Supreme German leader (i.e. "Fuhrer"). Technically Nazi Germany was a Republic but with a life long "Leader" in charge.

After WWII and the Cold War, the US could NOT appear to be imposing Dictators on various countries, thus the US and the USSR called their puppet States "Republics". These were lead by Presidents who more often than not were succeeded by their Sons. Kings in all but names.

My point in this letter is to show the switch from the name King (and Kingdom) to President (and republic) is more of Style than in reality. In many countries their hierarchy ruler is now called a President instead of "King" but the power remains the same. In Europe and other Countries were you had self-rule come into play, the Kings when Restored after the Napoleonic Wars tended to submit to the growing demand for Democracy and thus became figureheads (This is often tied in with those same countries adopting universal Military Service do to the tensions between the Napoleonic Wars and WWI, with Universal Military Service the people and the Army became one and the same and the demands of the People for a say in how they are governed could not longer be ignored, thus expansion of Parliamentary forms of Government and Universal Suffrage while retaining the King as a symbol of unity).

Yes, the switch from Monarchs to Republics is a complex change, but reflects style AND internal power structures more than raise of education and communications (Through these are also tied in with Universal Military Service in most European Countries).
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