Jesus Christ (aka: God) May Not Have Walked On Water, After All.......!

[Broadslidin]

BBC World News reports evidence of possible use of deception...!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4881108.stm

[AndyA]

1. I'm pretty sure Jesus could have done anything he wanted to do...

but that's just my opinion.

[adigal]

41. As a Christian, I say, "Who cares???" Jesus was a good dude

who said, "Love one another as I have loved you," and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

If the whole world listened to him, or Gandhi, or Martin Luther King, Jr., we would have a wonderful world.

[catmother]

43. as a non-christian i say "who cares"? you are right though about

listening to him and the others.

[maxsolomon]

2. Jesus is not Jehovah

anymore than the Holy Spirit is. in fact, Jesus is much cooler if he's not a Supernatural Being.

this report made my day.

[saltpoint]

3. I saw that article and got a strange kick out of it, but didn't take it

entirely as an amusement piece. (I don't know the author from any previous work, either.)

But I wonder if Jesus' walking on the water was a textual error that some over-worked and under-appreciated monk wrote down wrong in a late-night, candle-lit stupor?

What if the passage was meant to suggest that Jesus, or the way of a redeeming figure, a figure of compassion and inclusion and kindness, DWELLS, not walks, on water; that is, on or in unmitigated space?

Unmitigated space -- where contemplation eclipses greed and wantomess, and so forth. A psychic pioneer with no impediments.

Oh well. Just a thought.

[AtomicKitten]

4. I think the Bible is a collection of folk stories.

And walking on water another fable.

[Cleita]

9. I think so too.

I also don't believe that Jesus really existed. I'm with those who believe that Jesus was several religious men of that time in Palestine and the stories were eventually credited to one person like the mythologies of the times, Hercules, for instance, or the Castor and Pollux legends.

One person could not have done all the things credited to them in the times they supposedly did them. Because the stories were handed down by word of mouth and written much later the stories changed from story teller to story teller. I think you will also see contradictions in the gospels as well as other books of the New Testament.

[catmother]

12. very possible. did you see the movie "the god who wasn't there"?

[Cleita]

19. No I didn't, but reading about this over the years had

led me to this conclusion. All the bible characters seem to have come from older traditions anyway. The Virgin Mary, has many of the attributes of the various goddesses before her.

Actually speaking of Hercules, he too was the son of a God and a mortal, whose mother gave birth to him in spite of her husband knowing it wasn't his child. When he dies he too is resurrected and is bodily taken to the Elysian fields by the gods.

[catmother]

21. sounds like you studied mythology. i studied some santeria

and mary was considered the goddess of the sea.

[Cleita]

27. Yes, the Star of the Sea, who is also Aphrodite/Venus.

The evening star or the planet Venus as we know it today was attributed to Astarte, Ashtoreth, Esther, Aphrodite, Eostra and many other goddess names that are similar for the same goddess, but is a trinity in many beliefs, the maiden, mother and crone.

Mary fits all three as the maiden who is impregnated by God and becomes a mother. She then embodies the crone, usually associated with death, when she stands at the foot of the cross watching her son die and waiting to receive him.

Yes, I study a lot of mythology because I like to write about it.

[catmother]

33. it's a very interesting topic. when i was studying with a spiritual

teacher years ago, i had to research all the different gods and goddesses. basically there pretty much the same in all cultures -- just given different names. when i got this assignment i went to an occult bookstore and spent $200.00 on mythology books.

[AtomicKitten]

18. plus there was so much manipulation of the text

over the centuries in the translation and copying of the material, with some scribes making editorial changes and the Catholic Church completely eliminating entire chapters such as the Book of Daniel that spoke about spirituality and individual relationships with god. They weren't having any of that.

I was raised a Catholic and then attended an evangelical bible college in the mid 1980s (hard to believe, eh?). I wrote my thesis proving diametrically opposed tenents backed up by scripture. My opinion is an evolution of study and an unfortunate albeit brief experience in the culture.

It's really amusing and all too pathetic that idiot fundies actually follow the bible verbatim, or at least they think they are, picking and choosing the variety of passages they feel validate their hatred de jour rather than choosing the beautiful teachings and language on the fundamental teachings of the Christ character.

[catmother]

24. OMG. how did you survive?

[AtomicKitten]

31. life is a series of experiences

I was curious having never even read the bible growing up.

But I must say it has given me another dimension of contempt for the fundies and the corrupt politicians who hide behind their skirts.

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. Did you know that a treasure trove

of original manuscripts from about 200 AD were found in a place call Nag Hammadi? These documents provide plenty of evidence of Jesus's existance and his real teachings.

I think there was a great leader who is now called Jesus, but people have forgotten that he was not only a 'religous' leader but he was also a political leader in a country that at that point was occupied by the Romans.

Jesus and his followers and other renegades had to talk in code. The couldn't talk about killing Caeser, just like we can talk about killing Bush. They had to find other ways to communicate their messages, so they cloaked it in religous terms. Puts a different POV on the whole thing.

http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/naghamm/nhl.html

[AtomicKitten]

32. I believe that is entirely possible.

[catmother]

26. one of the things that bothers me is that the gospels were

written 30-40 years after christ allegedly died? it could have been a combination of memories, dreams and reflections.

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. I'm sure the legend of Jesus

and the real Jesus were two different things. People always like you more and forget your flaws after you're dead.

[catmother]

15. we didn't even have a bible in catholic school. we had a

catachism (sp?). never saw a bible till i spent a night in a hotel.

it's nice to believe all these stories when you're a kid, but when you mature and really think about it, none of it makes sense. virgin birth???

[AtomicKitten]

20. I remember dusting the bible on our coffee table,

but Catholics left it to the priests to interpret the bible, that is when they weren't molesting children.

The nuns in Catholic school scared the crap out of me.

[catmother]

23. i had a few of them beat the shit out of me. my father was not

catholic and he wanted to go up to the school one time because my knee was all scraped from being thrown across the room. my mother stopped him. :hide:

[Cleita]

22. I went to Catholic school and I had both Old Testament and

New Testament, the Catholic Bible version of course. Actually your missal is compiled of a lot of biblical passages, so you did get the Bible in bits and pieces. :-)

[catmother]

28. the bits and pieces that they wanted us to get.

[azurnoir]

5. I thought the other guy

was the iceskater:evilgrin:

[porphyrian]

6. Tangential Question about Christianity

I was raised Christian, though I no longer associate myself with the religion. My question comes from your post, where you say "Jesus Christ (aka: God)..."

Why do some Christians believe Jesus and God are the same person?

I was never taught this, and didn't encounter the idea really until we moved to the Bible Belt. Is this a widely-accepted belief in a certain denomination? Is it a regional interpretation? A misinterpretation? Stupid people? The only people going to heaven? What?

[catmother]

8. i was raised catholic and like you do not associate with religion

anymore. i was taught that god, jesus and the holy spirit were one -- the father, the son and the holy ghost.

[porphyrian]

14. Ah, so it's a function of combining the Trinity...

...at least, with Catholics. My mostly-nondenominational upbringing focused more on God and Jesus than the Holy Ghost, so the distinction was usually made.

[catmother]

16. we were also taught that protestants had to be converted to

catholism in order to go to heaven. :dilemma:

[porphyrian]

29. I'd rather be with all my friends and family when I die.

;)
:evilgrin:

[catmother]

34. me too. although there are certain members of my family that

i do not want to be with again. lol

[KAT119]

35. The catholic church proudly re-wrote/edited the Bible thru the centuries

is what my catholic education taught me-lst grade through Georgetown Univ. w/ the Jesuits. They are most proud of the Bible re-do's at the Councils of Trent & Nicea. They also inserted the life of Jesus/Yeshua-whom they created from sun gods-saviours in mythology because the needed a god- into the hisory of Josephus-years after 1st century . The Romans -of the time attributed to the life of Jesus- were excellent bureaucrats/accountants/historians yet they never once mentioned such a character who walked on or even by the water. No record of a miracle worker who was crucified. They meticulously recorded each crucifiction.

Biblical historians have searched in vain for real historical mention of any kind re an actual Jesus person. The greatest story ever sold?

Google-did jesus really live & search past evangelical ministers who say you will go to hell if you don't believe he lived.

Google errors of the Bible-both old & new testaments. Quite an eye opener....

[catmother]

36. very interesting.

[porphyrian]

37. Constantine made Christianity into a form of government...

...whether he believed it himself or not. It was unfortunately very successful. Christianity as a whole has never recovered from the corruption inherent in doing so.

Edit: erased an errant "n"

[Broadslidin]

30. Since Jesus was the product of an Immaculate Conception (Virgin Birth)

He or It had to be either God or at least
some sort of modified Extra-terrestrial Exploratory Scout.... :dilemma:

[VOX]

7. J.C. on ice??? That's it! It's war -- WAR on Christianity!

:sarcasm: :bounce: Between this and that fish-with-flippers fossil, it's all-out war! :bounce: :crazy:

[Jim Warren]

13. Heh

funny, but you know that what you said will appear soon in the alternate wingnut universe.

[catmother]

17. i'm gonna tell O'Reilly what you said. you better watch out.

:sarcasm:

[Swamp Rat]

10. But he sure knows how to do a great 'tuck and roll' on an old Chevy

Hell, he can break down a Harley Fat Bob in no time flat!

[catmother]

11. it's been said that jesus studied the Kabbalah during his missing

years. he could have been a very good hypnotist.:dilemma:

[Warren DeMontague]

39. He also may have learned Buddhism. nt

[bobbieinok]

40. interesting books for inquiring minds H Schonfeld's The Passover Plot

and Those Incredible Christians

http://www.disinfo.com/site/displayarticle8912.html

and from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passover_Plot

....

Based on scholarly research into the social and religious culture in which Jesus (Yeshua) was born, lived and died, into the source documents of the Gospels, and into other literature, Schonfield reached the following conclusions:

--That Jesus was a deeply religious Jewish man, probably well-versed in the teachings of the local northern sects such as the Nazarenes and Essenes.
--That growing up in Biblical Galilee he had a skeptical and somewhat rebellious relationship to the hierarchy and teachings mandated by the authorities (the Pharisees) of the Temple in Jerusalem.
--That Jewish Messianic expectation was extremely high in those times, matched to the despair caused by the Roman occupation of the land, and by their subjugation of the Jews.
--That he was in many ways both typical of his times, and yet extraordinary in his religious convictions and beliefs, in his scholarship of the Biblical literature, and in the fervancy in which he lived his religion out in his daily life.
--That he was convinced of his role as the expected Messiah based on the authority of his having been descendant from King David (the royal bloodline of David), and that he consciously and methodically, to the point of being calculating, attempted to fulfill that role, being imminently versed in the details of what that role entailed.
--That he was convinced of the importance of his fulfilling the role perfectly (after all prophesy and expectation), and that he could not allow himself to fail, as that would undoubtedly lead to his being declared a false Messiah.
--That he was perfectly aware of the consequences of his actions all along the way, and that he directed his closest supporters, the original twelve apostles, unknowingly to aid him in his plans.
--That he involved the least possible number of supporters in his plans ("need to know" basis), therefore very few knew of the details of his final plan, and even then only the least amount of information necessary.


more....

These books are fascinating. One of the reasons they can be so powerful is that most Christians know little or nothing about the events of the time Jesus was alive. So nearly everything the author (a noted Jewish scholar) discusses comes across as shockingly new.

[catmother]

42. just saw something on 60 minutes sunday night called "the jesus

papers". it's theorized that he did not die on the cross -- that he was sedated to look like he was dead and the herbs that they brought to his tomb were to revive him and treat his wounds. supposedly he was alive 45 AD. the passover plot was also mentioned.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

44. i don't think this individual actually read the bible

if he had, then he might just have noticed that the seas were rough...kind of hard for ice to be on the water with waves buffeting their boat...

Matt 14:22-26
22 Immediately Jesus made the disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of him to the other side, while he dismissed the crowd. 23 After he had dismissed them, he went up on a mountainside by himself to pray. When evening came, he was there alone, 24 but the boat was already a considerable distance from land, buffeted by the waves because the wind was against it.

25 During the fourth watch of the night Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. "It's a ghost," they said, and cried out in fear.
NIV


Just a thought...
sP