If you are unlike a typical repug, you will criticize McKinney.

[Justice Is Comin]

I predicted this was heading for criminal charges if she didn't stop provoking the situation further.

She is dead wrong. I don't care how many don't like to hear it. She does not have superior rights because she is black. She is entitled only to equal rights.

If you are going to be fair and impartial, you have to accept the fact that she did not stop when the police officer asked her to. It is in McKinney's own statement that he "yelled" to her. That puts her on notice to stop. If she was wearing her ID badge on her forehead, he would still have a right to stop her and validate her identity.

That cop has a duty to establish who is coming in that building to his complete satisfaction. Even if she was wearing the identifying pin, he could still ask her or anyone for ID. That builiding is one of the most crucial security required buildings in Washington.

She did not go through the electronic screener and she ignored his request to stop. That created a situation where it increased the possibility that this might be someone who would be a security risk.

He did nothing inappropriate according to her statement or the Capitol Police. She did ! You not only cannot poke, jab, hit, slap or resist a police offficer, you cannot refuse to stop for one who wants to detain you. Even if you think he should recognize you.

That legal power is vested in their authority. He had no alternative but to stop her in the least aggressive most reasonable next escalated movement after verbal command did not work. 30 seconds of conversation would have been all that was necessary and she would have been on her way.

I would bet money on it now that I have seen her in interviews that she just took an arrogant position that she was too indignant to be questioned, not only in her actions of the event, but after as well when she talked to the police.

Her lawyers are absolute idiots. I have never seen more ineffectual responses in interviews on behalf of a public figure. And McKinney is trying to control interviewers, patronizing them and using the interviews as a platform for claiming racial profiling. Yet she does not answer any questions as to why there is a basis for this claim based on the factual description of the incident.

She has a very good liklihood now that she is going to end up defending herself against assault charges or resisting an officer and she's got nobody to blame but herself.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thinkingwoman]

21. Oh matcom!

My monitor is wearing my drink.

That was damn funny, but, wow, I'm going to have a hard time bleaching my brain of the visual!

[The Doctor.]

98. I'm so mad I missed it.

I love Matcom's stuff.

Never did ask what was with the hippo though.

[thinkingwoman]

169. I don't understand the hippo either

Hell, half the time I'm not even cool enough to get matcom's jokes.

This one was a beut though.

[IsItJustMe]

2. The fact is that a Grand Jury in D.C. will never bring charges against her

The Grand Jury will be made up of a majority of African Americans. And these folks have probably been around the block once or twices and know how it all works.

There's nothing like a little empathy for folks that have been there and done that.

[BeFree]

95. Yep

Now if all the cops had always been fair and never picked on blacks before, and then this happened, then you could, as the OP has done, paint the person in question as an antagonizer.

But the OP has almost convicted someone, before hearing even half the evidence. Its a shame, but the OP is doing something even worse than what is allegded.

[Justice Is Comin]

112. I respectfully disagree.

Jump down to post number 102.

It is my justification for believing what I do with the information that is now public.

I have not convicted her, I don't know what happened as far as the "assault" itself. But she had an obligation to stop and show her ID.

[BeFree]

128. Information that is now public?

And you have background to that info? A link, maybe?

Or does it come from faux, et al?

Do you weigh it with the idea that it is one sided?

You have come to a conclusion, it seems, and less than half of the the evidence has been seen. I'd hate to see you sitting on a jury across the courtroom from me.

[Justice Is Comin]

180. If you don't think statements

SHE has made are considered in the "public,"...

And if you don't think her saying that the police officer YELLING at her required her to stop...then I certainly wouldn't want you judging me from a jury box either.

[BeFree]

182. Yelling at her to stop?

And she stopped, eh?

I am not the one convicting her, you are. Take responsibility for your actions, please. And admit you do NOT know the full story. If you can.

[dogday]

278. The question is were they asking for everyone else's

I.D. or Cynthia's??? Do you honestly think that they ID every single congressperson who wasn't wearing a pin that day??? And if they didn't why did they allow them through, because they recognized other congressman and not Cynthia who is one of 14 Black women in the Congress? Also, I would like to know how long that officer had been working that post???

[fishnfla]

3. I am starting to use the "shoe on the other foot" rule

If some GOP Rep had done this, people on this forum would have him or her flayed and crucified and drawn and quartered, etc.

[IsItJustMe]

5. Never heard of that one.

But I did hear somewhere, probably a dream, innocent until proven guilty. But then again, there aren't a whole lot of things that make sense anymore.

[radio4progressives]

22. Different Law for Blacks... It's Guilty until Proven Innocent..

the amazingly pathetic and outrageous thing is that DU members actually buy into this racist crap being spoon fed to them the very media everybody knows LIES ABOUT EVERTHING.

This news is broadcast on the same sources as that which sold America the big lie in Iraq - and WMD's.

When THEY (the media) KNEW FUCKING BETTER.

Consider it's the SAME FUCKING SOURCE!

[Swamp Rat]

62. Yeah you rite!

:thumbsup:

[ShortnFiery]

25. But it would not have ever happened to a pasty white GOP

Representative and Obama's been to Finishing School.

Think about this: She's on her SIXTH, repeat SIXTH TERM?

No, I'm confident that I am NOT race baiting when I can say with 100 honesty that I believe she was "racially profiled." I don't believe for a moment that a WHITE man or woman would have been "grabbed from behind."

No, she may not have been set up and she may be to sassy (uppity - was the SIXTH term noted?) and her manners pale in comparison the the diplomatic Obama ... but no, if my esteemed Democratic friends help the right wing destroy this woman, it will be a tragedy ... plus we may never know about what REALLY happened on 9/11 if we don't have her pushy broad voice, unapologetically asking for another investigation ... as well as Bush's Impeachment ... as well as solid plans to end the occupation of Iraq.

She's a piece of work and sometimes brusque, even I will admit that albeit I support her 100%.

Don't let your dislike for her personality, (lack of decorum, polish, class, etc.) push you into degrading her and thereby doing the Right Wing's Smear machine's work FOR THEM?

[AllieB]

104. It wouldn't have happened to a GOPer

and if it did, the media would have been talking about the uppity Capitol Hill cop.

[EllieGreen]

4. Very well written.

Thank you for posting this!

We are the first to jump all over the repukes for standing behind one of their own when they commit immoral/illegal acts, but we should stand behind Cynthia?

Also, as someone who used to live in her district (and voted for her) I got a bit peeved when she didn't do anything for our district. I'm glad that she throws bombs when they are needed, but this whole situation is disgusting, and she has no one to blame but herself.

*Deep Breath and waits to be called a "freeper"*

[radio4progressives]

9. We usually jump all over the repukes when we have facts to back it up

this obsession with Cynthia McKinney on DU is racist to the core.

I'm really getting so fucking resentful right this minute..

all this "outrage" over a Congress Woman who is not only Black but was raised in a deeply racists and hositle culture, abusive and violent, not only to African American's but to African American Woman.

It is a goddam NATURAL REACTION to try and defend yourself against PHYSICAL ASSAULT which is what McKinney had thought was happening to herself.

When someone walks up behind and grabs at you, the first instinct is to protect yourself, that to me is what McKinney did.

and while that is a technical legal matter, "assaulting a law officer", Self Defense is a NATURAL LAW - that is Constitutionallly protected.

I can't believe the racists mind set here. I just can't believe it.

[EllieGreen]

16. So I disagree with how she handled the situation...

...and I'm a racist?

For the record, if Hilliary Clinton, Barbara Boxer, or any other white congresswoman/man acted in such a manner, I would still feel the same way.

She slapped a police officer (something she has not denied), and immediately played the "race card." As a minority myself, I feel that her behavior is disgusting, period. I also do not appreciate being called a racist because I call someone out on their bad behavior.

[radio4progressives]

53. Have you ever been physically assaulted?

[EllieGreen]

60. Yes.

I was beaten to a bloody pulp. I was also raped and had to deal with the justice system and that includes racist cops.

I'm sorry, but I don't see your point? Or what my assault and rape have anything to do with Cynthia?

[Catrina]

81. You're a minority female who was assaulted and raped and badly

treated by racist cops? If true, how horrible for you. If not, definitely a weapon one would like to have in their arsenal when attempting to undermine Ms McKinney. The problem with not having been there, it's impossible to know what the facts are ~ but I will say for someone who claims to have had such a horrible experience, you don't have much empathy for other women who have been subjected to racism. Not that you have to of course, we are all different, and all entitled to how we perceive things.

Otoh, since I was attacked and nearly raped by a cop, no racism involved, just plain evil, I have a tendency not to always believe that all cops are to be revered, they way some seem to feel here.

But in the matter of Ms. Kinney, neither empathy or opinion matters. What matters are facts, and unless you were there, I fail to see why you are contradicting her at this point.

[EllieGreen]

111. Pardon me?!?

Excuse you, but I would not use my assault and rape to further any position. You asked, I answered. How dare you even imply that I would. Cynthia and my situation are completely different, and do not compare. I am not trying to undermine anyone, my opinion has been formed on how Ms. McKinney has conducted herself on this issue. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have plenty of sympathy for women who have been mistreated (by cops or anyone else), and I don't appreciate you telling me what I feel or believe. That is a pretty low blow, but I also realize that this topic is a hot one and I will try to keep cool. ;-)

I am truly sorry that you had to go through what you did. I know what it is like, and how awful it is, and I hope that you are recovering well. If you would like anyone to talk to, please feel free to PM me.

As to your last point, I agree. However, Ms. McKinney has not given any statement on the actual incident and has only stated that the cops are racists. I disagree with her behavior and how she handled the situation thus far. As I wrote before, I'm not sure if she is guilty or not....I do not have all the evidence. I will await the trial. If she is not guilty, I still disagree with how she has handled this. IMO, she would do well to tell us what happened that day.

[Catrina]

235. Thank you, but I wouldn't be offended if you chose not to believe me.

It's an internet board and skeptism is not a bad thing until we get to know more each other. :-)

I am fine. It was a bad experience but could have been worse ~

Ms. McKinney HAS given a statement. Not only that, but the Chief of Police has backed up her version of the story. She did not say the cop was racist in her official statement.

A trial, for an incident like this? Was the cop hurt, was he hospitalized, was he bleeding, bruised, scratched even? In fact, where is he? Why has he not been identified? In even the most serious cases involving cops, we have known their identities. It's hard to judge this case without knowing anything about the cop.

I find her behavior to be perfectly acceptable. She is who she is. That's what I have always liked about her. She doesn't pretend, she doesn't lie, she speaks the truth even when it's not popular to do so. That's why I give her the benefit of the doubt now.

The cop is unknown to me. I don't know what his reputation is, whether he has record of truth-telling, as Cynthia does, or whether he has a record of over-reacting when he perceives that someone is questioning his authority. Some cops get carried away with the idea that they are somehow above the law. They forget who they work for. We don't know him yet.

What I do know is that he has not refuted her statement ~ and the reports from the police have changed from day to day ~ she has not changed her original statement. Maybe people should just wait and see what transpires.

Those who feel that Cynthia should be 'treated like everyone else' must be very pleased tonight. The cops are sending the incident before a federal Grand Jury.

Anyway, thanks for the kind offer, and sorry if I offended you ~ I hope you're doing alright ~ :-)

[ShortnFiery]

124. Well, Tom Delay put it very clearly when he claimed that

Know-it-all bitches should be put in their place. Add a touch of racism, and you have this thread.

[radio4progressives]

209. that's about right shortnfiery...

[AllieB]

107. It's called racial profiling. McKinney was a victim of it.

I'm sorry to hear about your ordeal.

[Sawber1001]

191. Yep

Every member of the human race not wearing the appropriate lapel pin or not immediately recognized is stopped.

Racial profiling at its best.

[AllieB]

198. Evidence points to racial profiling. Have you seen the tape?

There are only 14 African-American women in Congress. It is the job of the pages to recognize all members of Congress. Do you think the Capitol Hill police would have hassled a big fat white GOPer?

[radio4progressives]

108. This is a stunning response.

words cannot describe what i'm thinking right now...

But before i break loose with that, perhaps stating the obivous is necessary in your case - better to pose it as a question - did it ever occur to you that Cynthia Mckinney is also a victim of violence?

Tell us all how you don't suffer any emotional and psycolocial trauma from your experience of violence and abuse.. Tell us how, you would now respond to being grabbed from behind (literally strong armed) out of the blue or not... please tell us how you would automatically assume the position of submission to the "wonderful po leeece offica" who of course means no one no harm, intimidation or humiliation.

[EllieGreen]

121. To answer your question....

...I don't know if she was a victim of abuse, because she has not told us her side of the story. The only information she has given us is that the cops are racist.

I'm not sure how else to be clear about this: I don't know if Ms. McKinney is guilty or not. I don't have the evidence. However, her behavior and how she has conducted herself isn't something that I, personally, approve of.

IMO, if I was in her shoes and some cop got grabby with me, I would demand that all video be released (as I understand it there were cameras), and shout my story till I turned red in the face. Her only response is that the cops are racist. She had some famous people and her lawyers supporting her, but I'm not sure what for at this point.

To the heart of the matter: Why won't she tell us what happened that day?

[IsItJustMe]

Come on Ellie.

[radio4progressives]

207. How do you conclude that how "she conducted herself" was inappropriate..

when you don't have the full set of facts to be able to make a judgement in why she "conducted herself" in the manner that she did.

Why are you quick to make VALUE judgements on her behavior before ALL the facts are in?

As a victim of Rape, you should know better than that.

As far as "why won't she tell us what happened" is a freaking no brainer!

A Media Lynch Mob was already in full force, had her tried and convicted before she even made her first press conference with CBC members and then with Atty. duhhhhh! false media reports that she was being arrested,
charged with a crime, etc - are you kidding?

As a Rape Victim, You should KNOW how it is usually the VICTIM of violent assaults that are BLAMED FIRST for the crime that was perpetrated on them.

Most Victims learn this, why haven't you?

But much more importantly, why is this issue more important to you than the Pedophile in HSD?

Isn't that far more hideous, far more egregious than anything Cynthic Mckinney might have done to that cop?

[ShortnFiery]

208. So the WOMAN who's assaulted is guilty until proven innocent!

In other words, show the tape!

Amazing beyond all imagination. :(

[Catrina]

67. Wrong, her statement absolutely denies that she 'slapped a policeman'

because the statement gives her account of what actually happened, and it doesn't include 'slapping'. But that's what the rightwing rags have said was in her statement. It was NOT. So far, we have had information that at least three black, women congresspersons have been routinely stopped as she was. Do you have any information on white women Reps being stopped?

[EllieGreen]

71. Where?

Here is her statement from her website:

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ga04_mckinney/incidentstmt.html

[Catrina]

96. Yes, I've read it, where does she say she slapped a cop??

[ShortnFiery]

115. They've never lived in dangerous, crime ridden areas like I have ...

Why the hell you you think that I've taken time to have both extensive self-defense and martial arts training?

No those esteemed upper-class white women (with both MANNERS and CLASS) wouldn't know the FEAR of an imminent physical attack if the notion climbed atop their bone strait hair heads - and set up camp! :puke:

[ShortnFiery]

211. Again, we are saying that the posts ... the information contained

is racist, not that YOU are RACIST. But to have to keep reminding you of this fact is a grand distraction. And my sarcasm is very uncomfortable for those who FEEL like "letting it all out" , I fear.

[dogday]

280. She slapped? I have heard punch, hit, pushed, shoved

and slapped, which is it and why do you rely on one side of the story... Also see my post #278

[Perky]

26. The problem in your response

is that you assume its racist to be offended by McKinney's response. I would have the same visceral reacion if it was Steny Hoyer or Katherine Harris or Ted Kennedy.

If you are told to stop and you don't you run a risk of the officer getting physical. If an officer stops you and you haul of and hit him you ought to be booked. He was just foing his job

and the more Mckinney complains about this being a racist issue. the Deeper hole she diges for herself and Dems in Congress. She is hurting the party and she ought to know better.

[ShortnFiery]

41. I don't have an "Idol Worship" of cops - Respect goes both ways ...

If a cop grabbed me from behind my martial arts training would have kicked into automatic. I think, or would like to believe that I would hesitate for a split second before responding, but depending on the circumstances, I just don't know. Women are taught to respond immediately when someone attempts to grab them from behind.

Dammit, NO BODY, not even Herr Sainted Capitol Hill Copper, makes a good judgment when he physically assaults a person from behind with absolutely NO, repeat NO provocation. (Remember he could not be CERTAIN that she even heard him.) My goodness, what if the person he had physically assaulted from the rear had been Condi Rice? <gasp>

This don't strike a police officer NO MATTER WHAT is one glaring generalization that needs to die - In the late 80s a number of young women trusted a highway patrol officer enough to stop for them on deserted highways. Yes, they were brought up to ALWAYS TRUST and OBEY a police officer. Guess what? They were raped and murdered by this legitimate COP?

I can't believe my fellow democrats are this simple minded. Gosh, if you chase off the best voice us liberal democrats have, then don't be surprised if the liberal base of our party becomes less than enthusiastic for you "Obama, the class act" fans.

[Karenina]

82. What I can't figger out is

if he were close enuf to GRAB her warn't he also close enuf to take two more steps to get in FRONT of her so everbody know WHO be addressing WHOM specially since GRABBIN a woman from behind who even possibly might be a REPRESENTATIVE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ain't at all in Ordnung.

[The Straight Story]

90. Well, Let's see.....

Didn't she know the rules? IE no pin you go through the metal detector? She violates that and hears someone telling her to stop and does not.

Where is her responsibility in this whole thing?

[Perky]

174. The cop assuaulted her is where it falls apart

You have no idea what transpired and you have taken a huge leap for touched me inappropriately to the cop assualted her.

[ShortnFiery]

213. But we all know the Great American Justice System?

Presumed innocent until proven guilty?

[Perky]

275. Time will tell

Is there actually video?

[Sawber1001]

194. If you were going

through a security checkpoint into Congress and a cop asked you to stop 3 times, would you stop?

If so, then your reaction to being grabbed is irrelevant.

[ShortnFiery]

214. How do you know for a fact that she did not think it was her that

was being call? That is a distinct possiblity to most, even those of us who are not 100% bat shit crazy Congresswoman McKinney Fans?

[radio4progressives]

56. Have you ever been physically assaulted?

[NorCalDem]

43. You're right, self defense is constitutionally protected

Now tell me how she was acting in "self-defence" when SHE was the one disobeying the verbal command of a Capitol Hill Police Officer. People here should be upset about the way the media is portraying this incident, but we shouldn't be upset that she is being charged with striking a police officer.

If she struck a cop who was simply trying to confirm her identity before she proceeded into the Capitol building, she deserves to be reprimanded for it, no if's, and's, or but's.

Now, if a video of the incident comes out and the cop grabbed her without reason (i.e. she stopped at the checkpoint, provided identification when asked, and calmly proceeded through the metal detector and he still grabbed her) then the CHP have a problem. When I see that video however, then i'll let her off the hook.

There is nothing racist in saying someone should be penalized for a crime they did in fact commit (unless the "crime" is something ridiculous e.g. being "black" or "female"). Laws against striking police officers are not ridiculous!

[radio4progressives]

58. Have you had access to the video yet?

[NorCalDem]

72. No, and neither have you

so let's use her version of the story.

She was running through security because she was late, the officer did not recognize her, asked her to show identification, she did not, he attempted to apprehend her and she swung away.

Her entire defense is basically a.) he should have recognized me and b.) I was only stopped because I'm black.

I'm sorry, but if that's your defense it screams of guilt. Somehow I doubt that the CHP will let all white people through without security clearance and only stop black/brown people.

[radio4progressives]

113. It has been stated that More than Half of Congress Members

not only do not wear their security lapel pin, but they go around the security strip every single day, and they are not harrassed or stopped.

So we got a problem of the rule not being applied to everyone, at all times, every day.

That doesn't prove anything, except for that Cynthia McKinney was doing what MANY OTHER CONGRESS MEMBERS do every day... not everyone is questioned or ID'd...

Why was Mckinney being singled out? How many times has this happened before?

[NorCalDem]

127. And that gives her the right to stike the officer how?

[radio4progressives]

215. What? Is this Officer God?

and anyway, who the hell is saying she has a "right to strike an officer"?

Is it really impossible for you to concieve a circumstance where someone reacts defensively when grabbed from behind and manhandled or literally strong armed?

Have you never experienced a rookie cop suddenly grabbing your arm out of the blue with no warning, twisting it up behind your back until your shoulder is nearly dislocated - but it happens so fast that you react defensively by shoving the person away from your person.. ?

That happened to me, but a stupid rookie who didn't know what the fuck he was doing - when I put out my free arm in REFLEX against what my brain and instinct was telling me to DEFEND MYSELF.

THIS SHIT HAPPENS to INNOCENT PEOPLE.

I didn't know then, because i was too young, but I could have and should have sued the shit out of the County Sheriff for his actions.

[mondo joe]

226. I'm unaware of any law that requires an officer to be God to do his or

her job.

[Sawber1001]

197. Maybe because

she had a vastly different hairdo? Maybe because it was a relatively new cop.

Would it matter why?

You comply with the cop and then bitch to his supervisor later. It's that simple.

[Catrina]

206. How many white congresspersons have been stopped, told the cop 'I'm

Rep. Smith', had the cop disbelieve them, or not recognize them, then been yelled at, grabbed and then 'body-blocked'?? Then, after showing their ID, proving they had been telling the truth, been smeared all over the media, the internet and then been dragged before a grand jury? Name JUST ONE!

And this is not the first time with McKinney. However, I don't think it's because she's black, I think it's because she has challenged the lies of this administration too many times. She has told the truth when telling the truth was not exactly safe. Why would you doubt her now?

[ShortnFiery]

69. I'm almost sickened by it ...

Yes, I've done my best and I'm now going to step away.

Go ahead and allow your racism and sexism to flow free - but don't look my way come this November, to vote for your ruling-class pasty white GUTLESS WONDERS, I won't hear you any more. :grr: :nuke:

[EllieGreen]

74. Once again...

...calling someone who is racist and sexist (never mind they have had to deal with both of those injustices) does NOT strengthen your argument. In fact, it is insulting and down right rude.

I disagree with how Cynthia handled this, I disagree with standing beside her on this. I have been respectful and have not called anyone names. You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. Insulting me, however, does not add to your opinion, and it makes me not want to take you seriously.

[ShortnFiery]

133. It strengthens it because IT IS TRUE ...

Up until now the right wing noise machine would not let anyone dare say either "sexism" or "racism" ... now I'm seeing downright RACIST and SEXIST behavioral stereotyping in this thread, but you say prove it?

How about you carefully read some of the outrageously derrogatory posts on this thread which makes fun of not only her race (GERALDINE?) but also her personal looks (another thread - Moon Witch). Don't expect our pushy broad or black LIBERAL asses at the polls for you come Election Day either. :(

Everything has a price. And I will scream it from this highest rafters, "This is Racial Profiling of an outstanding congresswoman." That is, IMO, The Truth!

[ShortnFiery]

216. For the 4th Time (FOURTH) Ellie no one is calling YOU - your person

a racist. Really, why continue to beat this ole' dead horse?

[mondo joe]

91. I can't believe these kinds of smears are being allowed.

Calling other posters racists and sexists for no reason but that they disagree?

[ShortnFiery]

130. There you go again ... always trying to find a reason to get

in trouble with "the man". Oh BOSS, methinks you just because you CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Yes, those Geraldine comparisons (flip wilson) and diggs to her appearance "crazy eyes" and "moon witch" don't drip of sexism. :puke:

[mondo joe]

195. To whom do you refer when you say "The Man" in the context of DU?

Thank you.

[ShortnFiery]

220. I have tried to "lighten things" up with you but all I get in return is ..

bile. That's cool, you're entitled to hate me, no skin off of my nose.

You claim that you are sniping at me in these numerous threads to RIGHT a WRONG, to COUNTER a BLATANT LIE ... <I'm paraphrasing but I think that's close>

My term "the man" reflect the fact that it often comes down to "thou shalts"

Listen, when it comes down to brass tacks, we don't know the truth. And since we don't know the truth, I accept that I may be erring on the side of "good faith" to wards a congresswoman who I respect and admire 100%.

But you are also erring on the side of condemning her.

And please, dear God, don't you go and accuse me of disparaging your person again because we both know that is NOT TRUE.

[mondo joe]

225. No need to "lighten things". Just adhere to the terms you agreed to when

you signed up to use DU.

Argue the issue, not the person.

That's not hard.

[ShortnFiery]

241. Thanks ...

I always can count on thoughtful advice from some folks here.

Why, many of us are guilty of "blind faith" on this issue, one way or the other. Both of us, and Oh my-
Both of us generic "radical stances" on this issue ("hang the guilty broad" side or their "she's a "national treasure" opponents).

But yes, your BASIC premise is wise and I will do my best in to future to keep a "just the facts maam" attitude.

[mondo joe]

284. I have no use for such "radical stances" or "blind faith". Just the

evidence and reason will do nicely, informed by principle.

Though you and I havve disagreed, do not mistake my stance as the opposite of yours.

[KAZ]

10. I won't call you a Freeper, but why not wait for...

...the facts to come out. I am confounded by the explosion of negative conjecture on this board against a fellow Dem. My first inclination is to back her, but I certainly won't come out swinging until I hear, or see, a bit more of what really happened. Sometimes it seems as though we fall for the myriad distractions more quickly than those who have placed them ever intended.

[EllieGreen]

19. Good question...

..and thanks for not calling me names.

Personally, my reaction is in response to *her* reaction. When the story first broke out, my first thought was "what happened? I can't imagine her assaulting a police officer!" Then the press confrence, when she did not defend herself or provide an explanation what so ever (something she is refusing to do).

[radio4progressives]

27. "I can't imagine assaulting a police officer" !

everyone knows that PO LEECE are sooo goood. they never ever hurt anyone with skin color darker than WHITE.

their record is pristine in this regard..

and gosh, i bet you can't imagine defending yourself when somone unexpectedly grabs you from behind either...

[Perky]

We will see what the witnesses say but

I suspect she refused several order to stop.

[EllieGreen]

33. Please, stop.

I have had to deal with racist cops. Please, just stop calling me a racist. It is uncalled for, and has nothing to do with my posts.

[Charlie Brown]

39. I apologize on behalf of other DUers, ellie

the level of steam accompanying this incident has really turned this board into a firing range.

[EllieGreen]

40. Thanks!

I totally understand that this is a touchy issue, and emotions are all over the place with this one. ;-)

[ShortnFiery]

88. But you are behaving racially = sterotypic when you assume ...

Oh ALL COPS ARE HONEST and have your welfare at heart ... when it's A O K for even a "uppity BLACK sixth term congresswoman" to be assaulted from behind from Herr PO-lice Officer.

[EllieGreen]

122. Where have I written that?

I know to well that all cops can't be trusted.

[ShortnFiery]

136. OK, I'm being generic, but those of you who say "atta boy boss man"

are technically contributing to her figurative lynching.

[ShortnFiery]

145. I don't think I've called any person either a racist or sexist but

I have stated that this BEHAVIOR (posting derogatory comments on her looks and parodies of flip wilson - her race).

It's been so successful for the right wing to put us in our place by kicking us down with, "Prove it." Read some of the postings on this thread and others like it, and one cannot help but conclude that racism and sexism is very alive and well within the Democratic ranks of this message board.

[ShortnFiery]

222. For the 5th (FIFTH) time now Ellie, No one is calling YOU - your person

a racist ... it's the tone and the behavior ... read the entire thread and tell me that there are not vicious undertones of condemnation based on sexism as well as racism?

But please, let's also stop meeting like this? ;)

[NorCalDem]

48. Do you know for a fact that this particular officer assualted her?

Also, if the person "unexpectedly" grabbing you from behind is the law enforcement officer yelling to "stop" then you're not acting in self-defense, you're "resisting arrest"

[ShortnFiery]

224. Innocent Until Proven Guilty?

Et tu Che? <that's a silly joke>

[ShortnFiery]

83. You got that right ...

"Oh please MisTAR Police officer, I know that all us nappy hair black women all look the same to you and you flunked the facial ID class. How DARE I, a SIXTH termed congresswoman not kiss your ass and shine your shoes on the way through this security point!"

Well, please check out my blog - forgive but I'm so unskilled at web sites that all my stuff is in the right column, but it may give you a giggle. I fear we must "give it up" on this crowd.

[IsItJustMe]

186. I can't either.

[ShortnFiery]

120. Yes, perhaps if she watches the film "GiGi" we can teach that

bumbling pushy black broad some manners, aye?

[KAZ]

103. I rest my case. n/t

n/t

[Perky]

12. You are spot on right on this

It my belief that she is doin this ranting solely to rally her base because she has a primary challenge and she is worried that a lot of GOP crossovers will vote for the opponent. This happened a few years back when she face a primqry challenge from Denise Majette. Majettt won the primary and the general election. Majette would have one again if she had not opted for an inane candicaty for the Senate. That is the only reason Mckinney is back in the House.

Even the Black Caucus is silent on this whole episode. I think she is embarassing the party and her district... and I hope she is defeated by any other democrat.

[radio4progressives]

20. DU members showing their utter ignorance about self defense and racism

i guess this what our party means by "big tent".

[EllieGreen]

24. Once again....

...to disagree with how someone how they handled a situation is NOT racism.

Please do not insult me (or anyone else) like this again. As someone who HAS been the victim of racisim, it really ticks me off.

[radio4progressives]

46. How can you disagree with how someone handled a situation

when you do not have all of the facts?

What is so egregious and offensive, is to see people draw conclusions, and opine as to who is at fault, when they don't have all the facts.

Have you ever been roughly grabbed, literally strong armed, from behind?

[EllieGreen]

68. I disagree with how she is handling the situation.

The press conference, her refusal to talk about the incident except to say "the cop was racist." That is what I disagree with.

And yes, I have been assaulted (see my above post). Again, what is your point?

[WildEyedLiberal]

162. YOU don't know she was "roughly grabbed" or "literally strong armed"

As you said, no one has the facts, yet here you are making up hyperbolic crap and pretending to know exactly what the cop did to McKinney. Hypocritical much?

The only people I see making wild assumptions without facts are the hysterical racebaiting fearmongers like you.

[ShortnFiery]

245. How does it feel to have ...

of all people a "Wild Eyed Liberal" flatly refer to you (and definitely me by inclusion) "hysterical racebaiting fearmongers"?

Enquiring minds want to know. :(

[ShortnFiery]

61. Then good luck with the future elections! You've abused us

far too long (liberals and African Americans) for us to OBEY your brow beating that every third party is a vote for Republicans.

Many of us will run to the Greens because we feel that OUR once Democratic Party is now being run by "polished" covert sexist and racist thugs.

You just don't get the compromise, do you? Neglect your base and you will lose and lose big.

[EllieGreen]

78. I *AM* part of the base....

...as a minority, Liberal and a woman. I have voted Green in the past because of some issues I have with the Democratic party.

Just because I disagree with Cynthia (and those who support her in this) does not make me a racist, sexist repuke. It makes me really sad how she handled this, because I always had the "you give them hell, girl" mentality when she kept pushing on the 9/11 issue, and on other issues.

[NorCalDem]

89. Ellie, I got your back

stop responding to these idiots! They're not worth your frustration.

Calling someone "racist" or "sexist" DOES NOT win an argument!

[EllieGreen]

125. You know what?

You are 100% right. I'm done with this thread. Thank you!

[NorCalDem]

129. You're welcome

whenever I get that worked up in a thread, I just walk away from it. Lord knows there are going to be about 50,000 other McKinney threads to get ourselves involved in, why should we continue to be personally attacked in this one?

Enjoy your evening!

[ShortnFiery]

246. Good, neither of us have provided any contributing facts past

this point.

Since we're all a "talkin' story" here, when I was a teen, I was grabbed by a pick-up truck bed full of men (5) attempting to take me somewhere, if you get my drift. ;) There's an element of being blessed, but I punched kicked and basically clawed at them until I was able to throw myself out of the bed of that truck.

My utmost sympathy goes out to those women who were not so fortunate as myself to have the luck and physical capacity to "fight off" male attackers. But any woman who's ever been attacked KNOWS the adrenaline that courses through your veins at the moment they lay hands on you.

I have since "seriously messed up" male aquaintences who thought it was cute to surprise me from behind ... you know, an innocent flirting with me. I've apologized to them for that because they did a stupid thing but they were my buds. When you've experienced the real deal - of someone who wants to fuck-up your body, I guess being touched inappropriately by anyone ... well, it kicks me into an emotional overdrive - a whole lot of painful memories of sheer fright - as well as an instant physical response.

As a woman who has also experienced that fear, I want to wish you the very best in life. :hi:

[ShortnFiery]

200. To the best of my knowledge we were ALL calling the BEHAVIOR

not the person racist. But such indignant accusations are one of the favorite ploys of the right wing when they are too embarrassed to actually address the issue.

I don't know what neighborhood you grew up in Ellie or will I Ass-u-me, but my green and African American buds (which I enjoy MANY), wouldn't even begin to understand your point of view.

I must respect that you are the "real deal" but as a WOMAN who's fought off potential rapists and who's had her ass grabbed in crowed bars more times than I care to count ... well, I do not understand ... I, as a green and as a woman who has been assaulted by men (more than once), do not understand your perspective.

[ShortnFiery]

150. Ellie, I did NOT call YOU, not YOU a racist!

I called the behavior on this board racism.

Perhaps you are not working class? If not, I do not understand why you a claimed liberal and green are not OUTRAGED AT the threads thoughout this board THAT figuratively LYNCH McKinney. I'm awestruck in the most putrid way. :(

[ShortnFiery]

227. Ok this is the SIXTH time you accused others of calling you a racist ...

erroneously. You know, when che guevera <sp?> supports stringing up a fellow democrat before all the fact are in, well ... we're all in a world of hurt. <g>

Please, I've tried to assure you but you continue.

My PERSONAL psychological response to having been abused is well ... not ever letting those bastards ever abuse me again! And yeah, that makes me f'ed up because I tend to reflexively support the woman who is assaulted, especially when she has my utmost respect and admiration.

Everyone deals with tramma in different psychological ways, but I promise you, I am NOT, I repeat, NOT personally accusing you, one each EllieGreen of racism. You have claimed this 6 times and <sigh> well ... I have no more answers.

[ShortnFiery]

54. Hey, I'm hearing this too - loud and clear

Being a cooperative member of the Democratic Party is also a choice. If you "hang um high Uppity Black Woman" fans win out and help the rabid right wing destroy her, many of us liberals and more than a few African Americans will be SLOW TO FORGIVE.

How slow, perhaps enough not to vote for your more "decorum polished" DLCers and other warmongering and big business loving DINOs.

The above is not a threat. If this continues at DU and other Democratic message boards, kiss your liberal and minority base good-bye and learn to love Big Brother Jack Boot Republicans.

I'm so tired of defending her being smeared when Democratic support (or STFU) should be a given! :cry:

I don't want to believe it, but has the Democratic Party abandoned their Liberal Base?

No matter what, she's ours, so if you destroy her, don't expect us to vote for your more moderate or right leaning candidates. :grr: :thumbsdown:

[EllieGreen]

93. Speaking as a member of the base....

...I will not support someone just because I agree with the majority of their opinions when they behave badly.

I approve of "Uppity Black Women," "Uppity Latina Women," and "Uppity Women" period. Hell, I'm a proud "Uppity Latina Woman" who has gotten arrested several times for "distributing the peace" at the School of Americas (or whatever they call it now). The cops didn't arrest me because I was an "Uppity Latina Woman," they arrested me for disturbing the peace and trespass. I've also dealt with racism from crops, mainly the one that pulls me over on 41 once a week and asks to see my green card. I show him my license, make yet another call to Internal Affairs and go about my way. I do not slap the cop.

I don't vote moderate or right-leaning candidates. In fact, in the last election I voted (GASP!) Green because I considered Kerry to be to moderate and right-leaning. If this is a contest of "more Lefty than thou," me and my Socialist-Green Party creds will probably beat you out on it.

This has nothing to do with race or being a woman. For me, the issue is how Cynthia has conducted herself, period. Is she guilty? I do not know. I suppose that a trial may happen, and we will find out then.

[ShortnFiery]

203. "the issue is how Cynthia has conducted herself,"

So "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply when you have a brusque and perhaps abrasive personality?

[mondo joe]

232. The presumption of innocence is a standard for courts and juries.

Not for personal opinion.

You might notice that such opinion is common fare here if you look at some other topics.

[ShortnFiery]

247. Well then you do ADMIT to having "an opinion"

Not necessarily all the facts at hand?

I've been playful with you because I like you (I can't explain it but you're OK by me) and my major point is that WE ALL make value judgments.

Doesn't make any of us bad people. :hi:

[mondo joe]

283. I have a tentative opinion based on the known facts. It is

subject to adjustment as more facts are known.

That is a rational standard.

Which is more than can be said for some.

[ShortnFiery]

286. Oh, I give up! LOL

I still like ya, but well you've definitely put me at a loss for words (one of the very few times).

Have a good one MJ! :hi:

[Justice Is Comin]

102. Who's saying that ??

Who is saying we are throwing our valued speak-out representatives overboard. This is tough love. It should bring out the character of what a true Democrat should be known for...criticism where criticism is due.

You are obsessed with the contention that the officer "grabbed" her from behind. Implying that there was no reason for him to do it.

Let me just draw your attention to one thing. In the McKinney statement that I saw, she says the officer "yelled" to her. What does that tell you?

If she knows he yelled at her, she is aware that he was trying to get her to stop. At that point, she had an obligation to do it. No matter how you twist it, bend it, or wish it otherwise, that is a fact.

She was not in an alley in Harlem. She was in an enormously tightly secured building having just passed the entrance of a screening device and rushing on her way despite a police officer yelling at her.

Nothing on earth can extrapolate justifying her at that point from resisting or hitting a police officer. PERIOD !!

The passion you should have is how ridiculously out of proportion it has gotten because of the way she handled it. I would bet a weeks salary that if she had just apologized for her role in the misunderstanding, it would have never made it to the second day news.

In fact, it would have insulated her from any Republican criticism even remotely and actually boosted her standing in the Congress.

[radio4progressives]

152. Are You Not Aware of the Fact that Most Members don't Go through Security?

That was also reported very widely, and testified in media shows.

Your Facts are WRONG. You have in effect, chose to assign GUILT and making her prove her innoncence based on false reports, half truths, lies and distortions.

You really have a lot to answer to with this deliberate flame baiting.

[Justice Is Comin]

177. It is you who have

chosen to ignore facts. She was going into a highly secured area and continued rushing on past a security check point with nothing but her arrogance that a possibly newly hired security officer has the duty to recognize her.

Bullshit !!!!

How dare the Capitol Police hire anyone who might not know intimately everyones face, especially one who has recently changed her hair style. Do you think no one else in the world looks like Cynthia McKinney? Or that in a mad rush of people coming through the doors that the officer doesn't have the right to confirm who someone is.

For you to maintain that he just wanted to aggravate her is patently absurd. Have you heard about anyone else, any other "Black" women who are potentially headed for grand jury indictment because they were involved in a confrontation with the Capitol Police?

I don't think so. You are passionate to defend her because she is a Democrat and a Black woman. I am passionate to defend her when she is in the right. Here she was NOT!! She is known for her flame throwing attitude and used it many times for Democratic good.

This she has handled about as badly as it could possibly have been handled in every manner, way, shape and form. So have her attorneys.

I hope you don't find out I'm right when the grand jury convenes.

[ShortnFiery]

204. "This is tough love. "

I'm sorry but I see no "love" here. And what about innocent or at least presumed innocent until proven guilty American value?

[IsItJustMe]

238. Man, again I will ask, who ary you?

And I mean that in a :wtf: kind of way.

[EllieGreen]

23. Thank You!

Very good points. Her opponent was on the local news and he said that this incident with Cynthia makes it harder for people who have been victims of racists cops, etc. to get justice.

I'm not to up on her opponent (hell, I don't even remember his name--I don't live in that district anymore), so I'm not sure if he is a GOP shrill or what, but he is getting more air time around here. If Cynthia looses this election, she will have no one to blame but herself.

[Perky]

28. He is a DeKalb County Commish and a Dem (eom)

[EllieGreen]

35. Ty for the info. :-) N/t

[ShortnFiery]

251. So I'm not wrong when I make the conclusion that

you live in her district and do not much care for her "personality-wise?"

Is that stating too much? Is it that she dare not strike a cop? I honestly don't understand why a liberal, and a green and a woman (not unlike myself in background) who's been physically assaulted from behind, can reach your conclusions? Make me smart?

[radio4progressives]

73. what buch of typical white supremist crap...

I was born in Fulton County, family in DeKalb.

I know what the fuck it's about - and what's being promulgated here vis a vis the media is pure WHITE SUPREMACIST CRAP.

It doesn't matter if the promulgater is a Condi Rice, or Clarence Thomas - White Supremacist attitude and double standards, and hypocrisy is all pure RACISM.

[Perky]

106. This Whitey says you have no idea what you are saying

and to whom you are saying ir.


This white supremacist lived in DeKalb for 15 years. This Whitee went to a majority black HS.

This honkee was two years old when his folks drove him and his three year old sister through the night in there little blue vw bug from Boston to DC to hear Martin speak on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial.

This cracker has a dad who personally knew Cheney and Schwerner. When Martin was killed my Dad spent three day and nights in Newark NJ working on reconciliation. This is the same man who grew up in the 1950s in Macon, GA giving "Little Richard" Pennyman nickels to hambone for him and then as a dad sang me "We Shall Overcome" as a lullaby. A song that still makes me cry.

Don't you even begin to call me a white supremacist...I will match my proud honky pedigree with anyone on DU.

You think Martin would have approved of this bravado? You think John Lewis thinks this is appropriate. Hell even Jesse is staying away from this one. Wonder why?

[radio4progressives]

156. I don't wonder why Lewis or Jackson hasn't come forward, it's obvious

The FACTS ARE NOT IN. They haven't come out in defense, because they want to see the facts - the video, the testimony, the reports.

See, read and observe everything first.

Which is what You and eveyrone should celebrate and honor.

Let's get all the facts first, before we dicide to Lynch Cynthia McKinney for failing to assume the position to her Massa..

[Perky]

164. Whoa

This is Jesse Jackson who said the other day that everyone should get off of Barry Bons's back? No facts in on that cas either...but Jesse sure did chime in.

Again...your idealism is betrayed by the facts.

[ShortnFiery]

253. What facts? "Sir, I see FEW true facts in this thread but I do see ...

an figurative lynching of a brusque black woman who dare not KNOW HER PLACE." :cry:

[SaveElmer]

178. So you are gonna give Tom Delay the benefit of the doubt...

Until the facts have been determined?

[ShortnFiery]

254. Oh please Delay has so much Hx of corruption you can't help but trip

over the facts. Especially that part where he's been censured FOUR times by the ethics committe. McKinney may have forgot her "balet shoes" but IMO she's the victim here.

[ShortnFiery]

252. Yes, you, me and maybe a smattering of support for us in

this figurative CORNER.

But be proud, people with such background as ours either have to be "scrappers" or we would have let them "drown us" when we were still pups. :-) <curtsy and off finishing school>

BTW let this be a lesson for *all* CONGRESS: Do not forget to wear you Congressional (Pledge?) Pins, or there'll be, one each, capitol police officer there to shag your uppity asses. ROTFL

[ShortnFiery]

276. He did not ...

Gee, there are a few people here who protesth too much our critism of THE BEHAVIOR and/or TONE of this thread, then extrapolate to their person.

This usually happens when people feel uncomfortable. Hey, we all have potential for racism. When I lived in Panama and Japan, it was like being "a little birdie" in the room. We think some very nasty sterotypes about other races, ALL of us.

However embarrassing, it's far better to understand why we stereotype and make a true and concerted effort to understand that the only true RACE that ends up on top, is that "mean mean MEAN GREEN. :grr: :hi:

[ShortnFiery]

205. I wonder ...

Could it possibly be that you don't like her as a congresswoman and presuming her semi-guilty before she is charged is much more expedient?

[ShortnFiery]

228. How do you know that McKinney has not been a VICTIM

of a racist cop? How do you know her story is bunk without all the facts?

This is mind boggling. As a VICTIM myself, it's almost instinctive, to me, to initially side with the accuser UNLESS the facts prove otherwise. But to each his own.

We are both VICTIMs of abuse and we have different instinctual responses to someone else's experience.

[Perky]

288. I understand where you are coming from

I just am open minded about the fact either way. I just think here tact post-incident leaves alot to be desired.

[ShortnFiery]

31. No, you're no freeper, but misled I fear n/t

[EllieGreen]

36. Not misled, just a different opinion from your own. n/t

[ShortnFiery]

123. No, I honestly feel an undercurrent of RACISM here, not just you n/t

[ShortnFiery]

231. You know, I think we can reach an accord here Ellie?

We both have a different OPINION!

I'm fully ready to admit that I have given over to "blind faith" of a person who I admire as a liberal heroine. I have no shame because I feel in my heart that she will be exonerated.

But I hope you can agree that "everyone here" who has passed any judgment on Congresswoman McKinney, innocent or guilty, have assumed facts not in evidence?

Now, for the love of God, can we all consider waiting until more facts are brought into light?

I promise not to "saint her" if you, in turn, promise not to "condemn her"?

Damn Right Wing republicans love it when they can string one of these issues out. :grr:

[Catrina]

57. Hi, welcome to the most popular threads for newbies these days.I have

a question. Were you there? You seem so certain that she 'has no one to blame but herself' yet you provide no facts to support your assertion. I anxiously await your 'proof' ~ that's what will be necessary when the rightwing succeeds in dragging this before the Grand Jury.

[AllieB]

116. Judging by the quality of the exchanges above

I would say that you can expect talking points and not proof.

[IsItJustMe]

201. You think so? n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

6. Exactly. I Will Not Give Up My Integrity and Values For A Double Standard

Thank you for speaking for those of us that actually stand behind our words, morals and values, even when used within a circumstance we are regretful about or a member of our own party.

[IsItJustMe]

173. Man, you need to lighten up. You take yourself to damn seriously. It's

not a good thing I tell you. You're acting like whatever you think somehow controls the world. I am here you friend, it's not so.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

175. Oh Please Preachy Weachy.

Has nothing to do with taking myself seriously. Has all to do with not being a hypocrite and having the ability to maintain objectivity even in circumstances that are not beneficial to me. Deal with it.

[IsItJustMe]

181. I just wish that people like yourself had the same passion for things that

really mattered. If you are truly a Dem, I would say this to you, self mutilation is never a pleasant thing to see. Go for it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

229. I Am Passionate For All The Issues That Really Matter. But There Is

no wrong in being temporarily passionate for ones that really don't. And self mutilation has nothing to do with this.

I didn't do this to her. She did this to herself. Many of us agree. Others should get the fuck off our backs already because we are being reasonable.

Tata now,

oh , and on edit: Don't ever question my fucking standing as a proud liberal got it bub? I'm acting far more liberal by being objective right now then those that are just spewing out nonsensical garbage in Cynthia's defense, without any real reasoning or deductive efforts. It is the republicans that are the sheeple, not us. So don't question my damn pride to be a liberal, merely because I'm being one.

[IsItJustMe]

236. Their is no truth or honesty in what you say. It is morally bankrupt.

And as far as I can tell, that's not what you are after at all. This is all about your ego. And if that were not the case, you would have never refered to me as BUB. It's all about you, Isn't it?

I am all about what's true and honest. So put me on your ignore list. But as long as I breathe, I will always call it as I see it. Always. I will never back down to bullies. Never.

And if the honest to god truth were known, that's why you can't stand McKiiney.

[Guaranteed]

292. What's wrong with the world today is that partisanship trumps truth.

On both sides, clearly.

Some, in striving for a better world, won't stand for that.

We've been seeing this disregard for truth in the neo-cons for years, now. And you don't expect people to be absolutely disgusted by it when they see it in our own party?

There is a huge difference between PRIDE (what you referred to as "ego") and INTEGRITY. You should learn it.

[IsItJustMe]

7. You are missing a very important concept of the law with regards to your

post. The word is KNOWINGLY

And to prove that she was wrong, you have to get inside of her head and see where she was coming from. That's a very hard thing to do.

[SaveElmer]

8. I think the fact that no members of the Black Caucus...

Have risen to her defense says quite a bit. Were there any kind of ongoing racial profiling you can be sure we would hear about it.

[IsItJustMe]

11. Your absolutly right. It's called FEAR.

[Charlie Brown]

30. the CBC criticize the Administration on a daily basis

and they're afraid to defend McKinney? Give me a break.

[IsItJustMe]

158. Just like anything in life, and your life, there are some things you can

be honest about and some things you cant. And it is very hard for an African American to be honest about race. For real. And if your were African American, which I bet my life on that your not, you would know where I am coming from. But people in ivory towers can always afford to criticize. Can't they.

[SaveElmer]

171. Sorry that is poppycock...

No one here is denying that racism doesn't exist...just that it does not appear to apply in this case. And no, I do not believe that a man like John Lewis would for one nanosecond hesitate to criticize the Capitol Police if he thought anything like what McKinney said is happening actually was.

The Capitol Police are not like your average beat cops out on the street dealing with crime on a daily basis. Their main job is to protect the security of the Capitol building, other congressional office buildings, and to make sure members and tourists respect the rules. They don't walk around rounding up criminals on a whim, and they are strictly monitored...not to mention witnessed by thousands of tourists a day, as well as 535 members of Congress.

The odds that the Capitol Hill Police are conducting some secret campaign of racial profiling against black members of Congress and this is just the first we have heard about it is almost laughable.

This is not to mention that the Capitol Police force is I believe, a majority black force.

[IsItJustMe]

179. All I can say is this. Unless you have experienced it, you will never

understand. And honestly, how could you? We all seem to yap yap yap, but there are so few true listeners. We all have our opinions, but what is that.

It comes from our lives experiences, prejudices, family, etc. How do we step outside the box?

Only the most transcendent people are able to accomplish this. Jesus, Gandi, and yes MLK.

I am here to tell you that unless we learn to go one step beyond this given small world of ours, the history of haman kind shall quickly end.

[ShortnFiery]

279. Poppycock!!!

Jeeves, is that you? <g>

Excuse me, but other than London or British in Nationality, I don't think I've ever heard an African American say THAT word?

Yes, that is a stereotype, but we all do it, don't we?

[SaveElmer]

45. Oh Please...

If there is one thing everyone can say about the members of the CBC, is that they are not afraid of anything...

Do you seriously think that a man like John Lewis, who was beat up marching with Dr. King would be afraid of criticizing the Capitol Police?

[IsItJustMe]

163. Read post 158.

[blondeatlast]

144. They were the ONLY Congressional delegation willing to challenge

the stolen 2000 election. ON TV> In front of God, the American people, and everybody.

They didn't play victim then, but you make them play victim NOW?

Give me a break--they had our backs then, but they fear the american people now?

Give me a freaking break--and the CBC the credit and respect they deserve.

[IsItJustMe]

166. read post 158 please.

[blondeatlast]

183. Edit: Okay, found the post. That doesn't really bolster your

argfument re: the CBC.

BTW, my husband is brown--very brown.

[ShortnFiery]

281. The credit they deserve is the intelligence to ...

"keep their powder dry" by privately supporting McKinney.

For those of you who don't believe that you are - in any way, shape or form - contributing to Rove-Co's rabid right smear campaign, ask yourselves the following question:

"Why are THE ROVE MACHINE and REPUBLICANS, in general, able to "drag this out?"

Don't you think that, just perhaps, The Capitol Hill Police are sick of this issue and would like to move on with matters eons more important than this?

Then, why is this "unthinkably INANE issue" able to SIMMER on and on? ... to help with PLANTING covert attacks and "attar boy Cops" resolutions to go through legislation?

You're welcome and have every right to HATE HER GUTS and vote for her rival in the primaries, BUT NOW, at this delicate time, you are essentially part of this "swift boat" campaign.

If speaking "your truth" (most of this thread is opinion) is more important to you than the possibility of not only destroying a congresswoman, placing a HUSH over the entire country regarding any further investigations into 9/11, an untiring advocate for the downtrodden displaced African Americans from New Orleans.

well ... if the need to speak "your truth" even if it serves the Right Wing "personal character" destruction machine ... go ahead ... for you're right, this is a free country where every political animal is entitled to "eat their own young."

But just perhaps, when they come to "swift boat" YOUR CANDIDATES, we won't get in line and say, "Yes, I'm here, what can I do to help?"

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SaveElmer]

42. Well for your information...

I am a transplanted northerner....

And possibly McKinney did exactly what it looks like she did...a stupid reckless thing.

[radio4progressives]

51. The Operative term is POSSIBLY.

Your inclination was to draw conclusions as if it were fact, and opined accordingly.

As to "Stupid and Reckless"...

Have you ever been assaulted from behind?

[SaveElmer]

55. Stating my opinion....

Based on what I have heard, and having known several Capitol Police when I worked there. There is not endemic racism on that police force...

And I think it is very telling that precious few are rising to her defense.

[radio4progressives]

77. I think it's telling that you place value on opinions of people who were

not even present and could honestly offer an opinion based on facts.. because they were NOT there, so they did not have the facts to opine, or come to defense or not.

Yet you do. That to me is really telling.

[SaveElmer]

79. So what you say then...

Is unless we have actually witnessed an event, we are not to form an opinion?

[radio4progressives]

80. What I'm saying is

NONE OF US HAVE THE FACTS ..

Yet, so many have already tried and found her guilty, and are pissed because she hasn't shown the proper respect based on this guilty verdict that you and others on DU have already asigned her.

[SaveElmer]

92. Again...I have stated my opinion...

I was not there...nor were the many on this board who are so vociferously complaining she is the victim of a racist police force...

Knowing what I know about the incident, and about the Police force in question, it is my opinion she probably did what she is being accused of. And having gotten to know many of the force members I can tell you I saw nor heard of any endemic racism on that force.

On the other hand, the Republicans are attempting to use this relatively unimportant incident to their political advantage, and I do not think the Democrats in the House should play along with it. This stupid resolution ought to be voted down.

[Catrina]

118. Has THIS every occurred to you? The COP POSSIBLY did what

Cynthia said happened?

[SaveElmer]

132. As I responded on another thread...

Based upon what I have read about the incident, the spectacular lack of support from any of her colleagues, and from what I know about the Capitol Police having gotten to know many of them while working there, it is my OPINION that she probably did what she is being accused of.

I think it is highly unlikely that the Capitol Hill Police, many of whom are black, are conducting a campaign of racial profiling against black members of Congress...

[Catrina]

185. And based on what I have read, it is my opinion that nothing of any

importance happened, but a big deal is being made of it by rightwingers, by Tom Delay, and now, by the CHP. The cop was white, we know that. That's all we know about him. Why is his identity being kept secret? Even in major cases, such as the shooting by police in NYC of Amadu Dialo eg, we knew the names of all the police.

I know most cops are decent, but that doesn't mean there isn't one who is not.

Cynthia made a statement. The cop has not refuted it.

She has had support from at least two women in Congress so far ~ and they validate her point that black women are stopped more often that white women congresspersons.

I hope this case is not being politicized, but I fear it is. It is now going to the grand jury. It seems that the chief of police has verified Cynthia's version of the story. This should be investigated further, because if the cop grabbed her as described, he was in the wrong, and she reacted, as the Chief said.

[SaveElmer]

202. I agree with you on one point...

This is definitely being politicized by the Republicans...

If you are talking about the the Chief of the Capitol Hill Police he is not verifying here story...the policeman grabbed her yes, but only after she refused to stop at a security checkpoint. As soon as the officer asked her to stop and identify herself she should have. If she ignored the officer and attempted to keep going, he was well within protocol to make sure she stopped.

None of the other two women who says they have been stopped have slapped the officer in retaliation...

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[radio4progressives]

87. You're right...

I probably should check out now before i really lose it.

[ShortnFiery]

109. Best wishes to you! OUT HERE :-)

[Catrina]

38. Actually Sheila Jackson Leigh has come to her defense and has

stated that she herself has been been stopped ~ I believe the interview was on Democracy Now.

I believe also, it was stated that at Coretta King's funeral, the GA Reps were not allowed in.

I know for a fact that we will not jump on Repubs if they are accused, since I personally refused, on a rightwing board I was on at the time, to condemn Trent Lott when the debacle about his comments started. Nor did most Democrats, if you remember. It was his own party who removed him from the leadership position without any urging from Democrats. He has said since then that it was politically motivated, from inside the party.

I'm getting tired of the so-called 'facts' and that 'McKinney was wrong'. We do not know anything about this except what Cynthia McKinney herself said ~

Her statement explained that she was on her way to a vote and was in a hurry. Sheila Jackson Leigh confirmed that it is very annoying when Capitol Hill cops fail to recognize congresspersons on their way to vote as they are called from wherever they may be at the time and could miss the vote if they are delayed.

So much is being said on this board lately that is incorrect, such as 'no one in the Black Caucus has spoken in her defense' eg.

I want to hear from the cop. I want to know why, since they receive training to recognize the people they are supposed to protect, he did not recognize her. I also want to know, because it's important, at what point he 'grabbed her arm'. If he did this without giving her a chance to get to her ID, he is in trouble. And why has he not been identified?

People here are bending over way backwards to try to look like they are being fair and in doing that, they are absolutely not being fair at all. There is very little questioning at all of the fact that the reports have changed so much. And why the cop cannot be identified. He is in no more danger of being harrassed than she is.

The latest on this story is that it will go before a grand jury.

Even Bob Barr is insinuating, cleverly I have to say, that this may have been a set-up.

Since Cynthia was there for us so many times, I for one, intend to give her the benefit of the doubt now. She certainly needs support. The entire rightwing is energized by this and it seems they have some company from this side. Poor Cynthia ~ I hope she won't be disappointed that she was so hastily judged by those she should have expected support from, at least until the other side produced some real evidence.

Meantime, I have seen more threads on this subject than on Tom Delay's resignation or the DHS arrest ~

[Perky]

47. Even if all this were true and it may very well be

It does not justify hitting the cop with her cell phone...which she had not denied doeing.. She simply says that he touched her innapropriately... unless he (pardoned the pun) copped a feel, there would be no reason to justify hitting an officer.

[radio4progressives]

134. Who are you to determine what is inappropriate touching?

Was Cynthia McKinney under arrest?

He had no business touching any body part.

[Perky]

If she was not recongnized and if she failed to stop

when the officecer told her to... the cop was perfectly jusrtified in touching her until he determined who she was

[SaveElmer]

50. You say...

"I'm getting tired of the so-called 'facts' and that 'McKinney was wrong'. We do not know anything about this except what Cynthia McKinney herself said ~"


Yet her supporters here have no problem making unequivical exclamations of her abuse at the hand of racist Capitol cops.

We also know what the Police said happened...

I worked in the Capitol for a couple of years and got to know many of these cops...by and large they are a good group of people working a fairly tough job.

[radio4progressives]

138. Since your're not African American, don't take it personally if what your

experience on the Capitol is considered somewhat meaningless in this regard.

[SaveElmer]

147. Not true...

In the lowly job I had I worked with the Capitol Hill Police quite a bit...many of whom btw are black. Many of my colleagues were black, as was my boss. Not one word ever, directly to me, or to anyone I worked with, or ever overheard by me, about the Capitol Hill cops being a racist organization. I personally witnessed many occasions when black members of Congress talked to some of the cops as friends, including John Lewis.

I'm not saying there can't be a rogue cop, but in this case it simply seems to me McKinney was insulted she wasn't recognized. She made the same complaint against the White House guards when Clinton was President.

[ShortnFiery]

65. Amen Sister!

Hey, just because Tom Delay says sexism and racism are non-existant, it's not true. By all accounts it is very alive and well, even within the ranks of so called Democrats. :(

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

66. Sheila May Have Been Stopped, But Did She Strike The Cop Afterwards?

:shrug:

Ya know, cause if she didn't, then the two scenarios may not quite be comparable.

I'm not saying race isn't a prevalent issue or that racial profiling doesn't occur. It does. But Cynthia should not have struck the officer, period.

[NorCalDem]

84. Thank You for pointing out the obvious!

Some people apparentely can't see the difference between being stopped by a cop and striking one.

[Pastiche423]

86. Excellent post!

Thank you.

I want to hear from and see the cop, as well. Why isn't his face splashed all over the headlines?

I am deeply disappointed in many of the DUers that want her crucified, but at least now I'll know who's posts to skip over.

[IsItJustMe]

199. God bless Sheila Jackson. n/t

[eridani]

282. Bob and Cynthia got screwed by the crossover vote in the same election

Not surprised he would take her side. The Repubs killed two birds with one stone there--got rid of a Repub who was getting too recalcitrant defending the Constitution, and an uppity black woman as well.

[ProSense]

14. Would the media have spent three days on it as a cover story?

Does anyone truly believe this merits this level of news coverage by all the media (front page, top story), when there are many other pressing national issues, more egregious crimes by government officials, etc.?

[Perky]

15. The media would cover Denny Hastert farting

if it would sell soap.

[radio4progressives]

17. Media Flatulating all over itself and Du is Buying their Soap du jour

[ProSense]

18. Yeah pretty much like they covered the DeLay/Tweety tape. n/t

[Justice Is Comin]

29. Regardless what comes of this

it is lunacy to think that this could be used to Republican advantage against Dems for anything whatsoever. For them to try to make it a party wide issue just shows how big of lunatics they are.

This is strictly one woman who happens to be a Democrat in a personal situation. She is a fire thrower and chose to exhibit the same trait in a moment of bad judgment.

After evaluating all the statements that have come out, I just had to call it like I see it. Even if she is one of our own, this was bad judgment on her part and I have just stated my opinion.

I will defend it as strongly as I would anyone I thought deserved praise.

[ProSense]

44. You have no idea what happen, there has been no trial.

If she deserves it, still requires due process. You say she's guilty. I say what we're witnessing media overkill. Call McKinney what you want, but she was redistricted out of Congress and voted back in despite it. She has stood up to speak out against the Carlyle Group and corporate corruption when no one else would. Call her what you want, judge her if you want, but this is still media overkill.

This appears at worst to be a skirmish blown out of proportion.

[Perky]

49. But she is the one blowing it out if proportion.

with her daily press briefings.

[ProSense]

52. Maybe she's giving daily press briefings because the media

is distorting the facts. Do you know?

[Perky]

137. what facts are being distorted?

You made the accusation... support it with evidence.

[Justice Is Comin]

167. Distorting the facts ? LOL

Did you see her interview on CNN this morning ? It was like pulling taffy through a shotgun barrel. She wouldn't address any question she was asked about what happened .

Soledad Obrien gave her ten different opportunities to say anything about how she was inappropriately "touched." She just kept going around in circles like a broken record about the racial profiling.

It was a horrendous perfomance. Then Obrien interviewed the Chief of the Capitol police and asked him tough questions which were devils advocate questions defending her. For example pointing out that she was only one of fourteen women Congresswomen.

McKinney does not want to address the events. She wants to control the interview and use it as a platform for racial discrimination. Anyone who was impartial that saw that interview this morning would come away with the opinion that she cannot talk about the facts because they are not in her favor.

I am not unfamiliar with going into the lions den with my opinions. But if nothing else, I strive to be respected for maintaining a true sense of integrity even if that means I need to criticize something I wish I didn't have to do.

If you don't think that is a true statement, look at my posts defending Specter.

[IsItJustMe]

240. With you as a friend, you would never need an enemy.

[radio4progressives]

149. Oh the Media wasnt the first to blow this out of proportion, eh?

in fact, the media was practically having a goddam conimption fit because she did NOT make appearances or hold a press conference -

she's fucked up if she does and she's fucked up if she doesn't.

Listen to you people!

[Charlie Brown]

64. If it's "media overkill" she certainly bears responsibility for that

An appearance with celebrities, interviews on CNN, press conferences. She certainly has had no shortage of things to say from this incident. It almost makes me think she's enjoying it.

[ProSense]

75. Yes, every time a Democratic member of Congress holds an

"important" press conference the media is right there to give it full play. Enjoying it? Maybe she knows something we don't. This is not newsworthy to this level. It's overkill.

[NYCGirl]

119. Maybe the media would cover them all the time if we invited Danny Glover!

Hey that's the ticket.
:evilgrin:

[mondo joe]

94. McKinney is exploiting this too.

I have no doubt this will be featured in her own fundraising efforts, just as the War on Christmas was on the right.

The media is exploiting it, and so is the GOP.

[radio4progressives]

148. OMFG.. Now Blaming Media Coverage on Her - now that's Rich!!

[Charlie Brown]

151. Yes, I'm sure Wolf forced her at gunpoint to appear on the Sit Room

as well as her lawyers.

[radio4progressives]

159. I rest my case...

:puke::puke::puke:

[IsItJustMe]

239. I hope your little crusade succeeds. What it will accomplish, who the

hell knows?

[Zorra]

32. Can't criticize until I've seen the video of the assault. Cops lie all

the time, and they often support and protect their own when one of them does something wrong, abuses their authority, or actually commits a crime.

Maybe the cop grabbed her inappropriately.

I had cops hit me in the back with their batons for no justifiable reason at the WTO protest in Seattle. I had a cop make me get out of town while hitchiking through a small town in Tennessee because "they didn't like my kind around there".

I have had enough experience with cops that abuse their authority that I am pretty skeptical of their accounts of certain situations. Many people place unbridled faith in our justice system until they are unjustly victimized by it, and this is a real eye opener. After that, they understand just how corrupt, and unjustifiably devastating, our justice system can be.

Not all cops are good guys. And if I have done nothing wrong and a cop assaults me for no reason I don't give a shit what the law says, I am going to protect myself. We may now be living in a burgeoning police state, but that doesn't mean I have to bend over and take unjustifiable abuse.

That said, it may well be that Rep. McKinney was in the wrong, but I am not going believe this simply because the cops say she did.

[Justice Is Comin]

59. I will just say one thing.

In McKinney's statement, she says the officer "yelled" to her. What does that tell you?

Forget any statements by the cops, what does her statement tell you ? And then think about McKinney's reputation and fly-in-your-face attitude she always has.

[Zorra]

176. After reading her statement, it appears that Rep. McKinney felt

that she has been been singled out to have her identity questioned repeatedly by the police on Capitol Hill because of the color of her skin.

Whether this is the result of poor facial recognition training by the DC cops, a cop with a real bad memory, selective memory loss on the part of the officer in question, or the cop was under orders to deliberately harass Rep. McKinney are all possibilities.

Here is part of her statement:

Throughout my tenure in Congress, I seem to evoke memory loss, especially from certain police officers who claim not to be able to recognize my face while I go to work everyday, representing the people of Georgia's 4th Congressional District.
snip----
Sadly, there are only 14 black women Members of Congress. And surely our faces are distinguishable. But why my face is continually unrecognizable can only be answered by these offending police officers. Capitol Hill Police are given face recognition instructions as a part of their official training. Capitol Hill Police are required to recognize, greet, and distinguish Members of Congress as a part of their official role and responsibilities. In fact, according to the US Capitol Police, their mission is to protect and support the Congress in meeting its Constitutional responsibilities. The US Capitol Police mission statement makes no distinction about selective application of its mission depending upon whether a Member of Congress is black, woman, or has a new hairstyle.

But, honestly, this incident is not about wearing a Congressional pin or changing my hairstyle.

It is true that I have changed my hairstyle. It is true that at the time I was not wearing my pin. But many Members of Congress aren't wearing their pins today. Just in the last hour at least 8 Members of Congress have been spotted speaking from the well of the House without their pins and even more have been seen on the Hill today not wearing their Congressional pin. How many of them were stopped by Capitol Hill Police? Do I have to contact the police every time I change my hairstyle? How do we account for the fact that when I wore my braids every day for 11 years, I still faced this problem, primarily from certain white police officers.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/8361195/detail.html

Black folks got sick of saying "yes, boss" to bigoted cops long ago. Cynthia McKinney wasn't born yesterday. I believe that she can perceive the difference between honest intentions and clear deliberate intent to harass.

Where do you draw the line when bigots repeatedly misuse their authority to harass?

If the cop was deliberately harassing her, I hope she slugged him a good one.

[ShortnFiery]

258. Give it up, mahn

She knows now the person was yelling at her. At the time, you can NOT prove she felt that she was "being summond" by "The" ... oops! ... make that "that" MAN.

[LittleClarkie]

34. She's not wrong yet until she has her day in court

but then, neither is the cop, til he's had HIS day in court as well.

But I've not liked how she's dealt with this so far.

[Perky]

37. I think the real issue here is that CK is coming across like "Geraldine"

The Flip Wilson character. She is waaayyy overplaying the poor perecuted afican american woman schtick. Its not that she is completely at fault here (time will tell) she just come across a 1970s blaxploitation star rather than a Congresswoman

[mondo joe]

63. If I died choking on my wine just now, you'd be responsible. -eom-

[ShortnFiery]

248. You obfuscate ... I'm saying that you are as imperfect as the rest

of us. You say, keep to facts, but have ADMITTED to having "an opinion."

You can't claim FULL objectivity on this issue is my basic point.

[ShortnFiery]

97. Oh GOD! Now you are making jokes.

You people are posting the most SICK-O stuff ... hell, I don't even recognize you trying to see through the dripping RACISMtype behaviors. Flip Wilson's Geraldine?!? That's just fucking sick beyond words.

Racist Yes!
Sexist Yes!

Enjoy the next ten years of republican rule because us pushy broads with lack of decorum and African Americans who MANY know what it's like to be assaulted by a cop in poor neighborhood, are RUNNING LIKE HELL from your ranks.

"Enjoy your lynching of me MasTAR and Maam'. Can I have another lash of the whip? I had no right to believe that I should be recognized as a fucking SIXTH TERM CONGRESSWOMAN."

Un-fucking-believable! :puke:

[Thirtieschild]

70. I agree with her on a lot but.....

I've never trusted her. We lived in an adjoining district and she always seemed to be mostly about Cynthia, lots of ego, self-aggrandizing, hype. Claiming racial bias is classic Cynthia.

[mondo joe]

85. This week has been enough for me to question if there is really a party

for me.

For years we've talked about responsibility and accountability lacking in the Bush administration. We've said "no one is above the law".

It sometimes seems that's just a convenience for us. We can excuse Dems, or make excuses.

I'm not doing it. If we're just playing us vs them, and we're as willing to compromise our principles, I want no part of it. If being a dem comes down to just being blue Republicans with the same lack of principle, I might as well just get out now.

I'm not leaving yet. When I say no one is above the law, I mean it. When I say all should be equal before the law, I mean it. I'm enormously grateful to every poster with the same committment who has stepped forward. You make me proud.

[ShortnFiery]

99. For once you are absolutely right Mondo Joe

No one is above the law ... THE MAN!

AND no one is going to ever, force any of us liberals to support your GUTLESS WONDER democrats! Sure, you don't need us. Sure - Enjoy your lynchin' Ya all. Make sure to bring some right wing kool-aid, you're gonna need it.

[mondo joe]

192. If you can post again without the insults I'll do my best to respond.

Thank you.

[ShortnFiery]

242. Mondo, you are not the target here ...

I can understand that you "feel insulted" but how is one supposed to believe you are a "facts only" kind of guy when you claim to almost spew out your wine upon the comparison of McKinney to Flip Wilson's 70s character "Geraldine."

I'm not insulting you, just making an objective observation that many of us who see her in a more attractive light are taken aback at the enjoyment of such an comparison. I dare not say racist or sexist, but I will suggest "disgustingly opportunistic." That is, how can those of us who seriously admire McKinney even begin to believe that the posters of such *jokes* are genuine in their "were just stating the facts Maa'm" repeated claims?

[mondo joe]

287. I have yet to see such "objective observations".

If you think you're making them, I suggest you try harder.

There's nothing inconsistent with laughing at a joke while reserving the more serious matters for evidence.

Don't confuse the two, please.

[medeak]

100. several dem congress people have come forward

saying they didn't recognize her either after coming back in Jan.

Yes! We can criticize our own. Thanks for your post...was tired of threads being closed citing "flamebait"

[ShortnFiery]

105. Nope, the OUR is not there when you help the right wing

destroy this good woman. This is sick, this isn't critism this is RACISM.

Geraldine comparisons to Flip Wilson's character, Crazy Eyes assertions, one DUer even referred to her "looking like" a moon witch.

I'm disgusted on so many levels. :(

[mondo joe]

187. The Right Wing will certainly do their best to exploit McKinney's mistake

if and when she makes them.

That doesn't make them responsible for her mistakes.

[mondo joe]

193. This week strikes me as a good reminder that you can only control

yourself, and you can only be accountable for your own actions and values.

:-)

[Eric J in MN]

114. PROSECUTION is a serious action for cases when

it will help society to prosecute.

It isn't being indifferent to the law to say that people shouldn't be prosecuted whenever they break the law, no matter how big or how small.

It's being TOLERANT.

[mondo joe]

189. I didn't say she should be prosecuted - did I?

I don't have enough data to know if anyone in this incident should be.

But people have suggested she shouldn't have to stop at a security check point when asked to, or any of the various exceptions suggested for McKinney that would NEVER be tolerated at DU if s Repub claimed them.

That's a legal double standard.

And if based on the events of the case there is enough to charge her, then so be it.

[Catrina]

143. I didn't see your thread on 'no one is above the law' when Cheney told

the cops to 'go cheney' themselves when they came to investigate a shooting which had seriously injured a man.

And guess what, the cops left, didn't even bother to investigate. They waited 'til Cheney decided to let them in the following day. They didn't think they should make this man (no one is above the law, remember?) take a breathalyzer to see if he was drinking, for instance.

Gee, I wonder if that had been Cynthia and some of her friends, would they have politely said 'well, sure Ms. McKinney, just let us know when we can come back and investigate.

Amazing, and not a word of criticism from our Dems to ensure that we are all treated the same way.

They certainly are treating Cynthia differently. And so are we. Can we have a few threads on whether or not Cheney broke the law? Du seems way more interested in slamming this Congresswoman. Cheney's story died pretty fast as soon as the victim apologized for getting in the way of his gun.

Maybe it's time to find another party ~ one that MEANS it when they say 'no one is above the law'. Because this one sure hasn't done much to make this administration as accountable as anyone else would be.

Oh, except for Cynthia, Conyers, Feingold, but they don't get much support. I'm thoroughly stunned at this. I imagine boards like this gave great comfort to those who wondered what would happen if they went ahead and indicted her. Well, they have nothing to worry about.

:hi: Rove, Tom, and all rightwing lurkers. Go get her! She's pretty much on her own, and she's guilty even though she hasn't been charged yet!

[mondo joe]

184. And you didn't see my thread about this either. Just some posts.

And in those Cheney incidents there weren't Dems supporting some special exception for him - so what would be the point of starting a thread to the contrary?

Let me explain something to you: I can't control what others do or say. Not other posters, not elected Dems or Reppubs.

I cann only be accountable for MY standards. And they are consistent.

[ShortnFiery]

244. "weren't Dems supporting some special exception for him (Cheney)"

Where are they? I wanna see those Cheney loving Fatherland Storm Troopers? ... show yer faces varmits? ... you you - Darth Cheney Apologists! Man, the planet is no longer spinning on it's axis. LOL <tongue in cheek>

[Guaranteed]

293. Bingo. I'm not interested in a simple gang war. nt

[sendero]

101. You know what..

.... let's say your version of the events are correct.

Ok, that's great. Fine her $200 and case closed. Do you ACTUALLY think she is going to go to jail over this bullshit? It wasn't an actual FIGHT, it was someone reacting to being grabbed and swatting back.

BIG FAT HAIRY DEAL.

[radio4progressives]

141. Cynthia Must be punished I tell you! Lock up her ass !

Who the hell does she think she is being an Uppity Black Congress member who refuses to be man handled - and will defend herself?

Shame on her! Let's drag this out for the next three weeks shall we?

[Eric J in MN]

110. If a Republican Congresswoman in the same situation had

poked a cop with her cellphone after he grabbed her, I would still say, DON'T PROSECUTE.

Prosecution is for serious matters, when there is something to be gained through it.

It's part of the job of security work that when you grab someone, they might push back. It's not like she punched him to the ground.

[Marr]

117. Sorry- I've got my hands full complaining about war criminals,

corporate looters, and Cunningham-DeLay-style corrupt GOP politicians to give much of a shit about some woman slapping a cop. But if you want to complain about that, go ahead. Our television commentators seem to prefer talking about McKinney, too.

[IowaGuy]

126. I'm going to withhold judgement until all the facts are clear....

or at least as clear as they'll get.

One observation though...there sure seems to be an excess of arrogance and an over the top self righteous sense of importance with all those that are involved in this on all sides.

Not an unknown characteristic among too many politicos of all stripes in Washington, unfortunately.

[blondeatlast]

154. Sigh--now tyhat I can unequivocally agree with. Did either the cop or

Ms. McKInney think to apologize to the other?

Now it's become a matter of pride and example and neither can back down--and we all lose in the aftermath.

All hope is NOT lost, however--BUG BOMB TOM DELAY is defeated.

When it all becomes too much, I repeat that phrase 3 times.

[radio4progressives]

131. I cannot believe this is a Democratic Party Forum

My progressive activists friends and comrades were right all along.

For years i argued to my comrades (in other political struggles)that it wasn't fair to lable "Liberals" as White Supremacists...

I argued that it was something of an oxymoron - the whole concept of White Supremacy (so i thought at the time through my ignorance) was anethema to the underpinning philosophy of Liberalism, which is supposed to be rooted in the theory of "enlightenment".

The response would be that it is an illusion to assume that Liberals reject the concept of White Supremacy, because WS is a required to ensure the continued existence of Liberalism..

Now, that to me was simply tortured logic by any stretch of the imagination.

However, the past several weeks have revealed the truth in what i had forever considered "tortured logic" - the immigration issue and now this McKinney incident, has revealed that Liberalism isn't necessarily about "enlightentment" at all - it is about holding on White Supramcist concepts of our American society and all of it's "Middle Class" trappings.

I'm finally beginning to see it and i'm so sickened to the very depths of my soul..

Here it all is, wrapped up in a pretty ugly bow, for the world to see.

[ShortnFiery]

139. God Bless You and Best Wishes!

I'm running like hell toward the Green Party and to actually work within my local community for true "humanitarian" liberals.

Again Boss Men and Ladies in the Big Hats sippin' those mint juleps and behaving oh so politely, don't come asking for us to help you come Election Day. We're working locally and keeping our powder dry through the next IMO, decade of right wing republican rule.

As more of you sink into the working class, ladies? Be sure to take some self defense courses. OUT! :-)

[IsItJustMe]

196. You said a mouthfull.

[klook]

135. If you are like a typical repug, you'll say this story is HUGH!!

If you are like a typical repug, you will try to make it look like Cynthia McKinney, rather than responding reasonably to the latest in a series of hassles by security gurads, is some kind of violent nutcase.

If you are like a typical repug, you will talk endlessly about "the Cynthia McKinney incident" while ignoring the actual newsworthy stories about DeLay and his crime machine.

If you are like a typical repug, you will assail McKinney based on her supposed behavioral flaws and alleged irritating personality, rather than on the substance of her contributions as a legislator.

If you are like a typical repug, you will rant about how she wasn't wearing her Congressional lapel pin, never addressing the possibility that using an easily counterfeited fucking LAPEL PIN in lieu of a security badge might not be a valid concept.

If you are like a typical repug, you will try to make this assault with a "deadly" cell phone seem like almost as big a deal as Clinton's blowjob.

[LostinVA]

140. McKinney doesn't have to legally go through the metal detector

[NYCGirl]

142. No, but she does have to stop and show her ID if requested. NT

[LostinVA]

146. Yes, but the OP had this specific thing in bold type

That she didn't go through the metal detedtor... that's why I mentioned it. The ID thing is separate, and NO ONE KNOWS what happened, and won't until the videotape is shown. Again, I mentioned this abacus it was bolded, as if Cynthia broke the law by not doing this. I'm not discussing anything else.

[AtomicKitten]

153. don't bother.

You cannot convince these people that are making excuses for Ms. McKinney. They will rail against the Republicans for doing the same thing; there is ZERO insight at DU on this issue.

Racism is rampant and it is ugly, but you can't participate and have complicity in this kind of situation and think you can walk away a hero (except here at DU, of course!). This is the wrong battle to pick if you want to combat racism.

Ms. McKinney is using racism as an excuse for bad/inappropriate behavior. And DU'ers are going along for the ride. She should have stopped when asked. She was at a damn security checkpoint for chrissakes.

Independent thinkers my ass.

[ShortnFiery]

157. No, with respect AtomicKitten ...

We've been beat down by both the right wing and members of our own party that trying to push us down again when it is CLEARLY Racial Profiling of Congresswoman McKinney ...

Well ... we won't take it anymore.

If you believe those of us who have spoken out on what we consider both racist and sexist behavior on the board are just "moon bat shit crazy" then you are entitled to your opinion.

Perhaps you and other good folks are correct, we are a very small, radical fringe of the party. I think our numbers are strong.

You have always behaved considerate toward me and I respect your person.

Time will tell.

[AtomicKitten]

165. I'm not arguing that it was or was not racial profiling.

I'm simply saying she should have stopped when asked. There should be ZERO tolerance for screwing around at security checkpoints. This is NOT the place nor situation to throw down the gauntlet. Pick another venue and I'm with you.

On edit: I would never say someone is moonbatshit crazy. :)

[ShortnFiery]

172. No, this is one that saddens me more than words can say ...

Ok, I will wish you well, later ;)

[ShortnFiery]

243. You're too cool AtomicKitten ...

There's a lot to be said by thoughtful language and diplomacy. You vice some other people I tangle with, to an sometimes tasteless emotional level, may harbor your *basic* premises in the objective parts of their arguments, but we both get silly and go emotionally ballastic with each other.

I honestly love your gift of expressing yourself without overtly pissing the other person off. I couldn't like a person that I objectively disagree with more. Thanks for the advice, somewhat to us all ... to me, it means, step back from the issue for awhile until more facts come into light. ;)

[AtomicKitten]

289. I'm humbled by your graciousness.

I have always sought out conversations with people with different points of view because I want to understand how they arrived there. I savor those conversations. I have zero tolerance for gratuitous bashing and groupthink (some despise me for that here at DU, but that's their problem, not mine), and I will often ask people to explain their reasoning. Even if I end up not agreeing with their conclusion, I applaud their thoughtful journey. I have come to realize that once we curb our more caustic rhetoric, most of us really at the core are on the same page; we just channel our rage at the status quo differently.

I applaud your ability to go to battle here on DU with such passion, never yielding your integrity. You argue with reason, not insults. You are an asset to this community and are a genuine, decent person. It is a pleasure to tangle with you here at DU! :)

[ShortnFiery]

290. Please accept my humble appreciation ... I return the good will.

Thank you for helping me take a moment to short circuit my "zeal" long enough to engage some OBJECTIVE logic. Especially before I mistakenly set-off on those liberal democratic missions. :blush: :yourock:

OUT HERE! :hi:

[AtomicKitten]

294. oh, so close ....

and then you had to say "mistakenly."

I'm with you 100% on gay marriage, gay adoption, any environmental issue, national health care and immigration, and that's off the top of my head.

I part company with the "leftists" on seeking to split the Democratic Party with visions of a third party, the nonstop gratuitous bashing of Dems based on false allegations, and on Cynthia McKinney buzzing a security checkpoint.

Your compadres have peppered their diatribes with allegations of racism, but their blind allegiance is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of racism. Racism is Katrina, the 2000 disenfranchisement of voters, bad schools in poor areas, and an inequitable, unfair judicial system, but being stopped at a security checkpoint, not so much.

It's important to be precise in your language. Your cohorts distort purposely, but you deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Cheers.

[ShortnFiery]

295. "It's important to be precise in your language."

Point well taken. I just think it hilarious that I'm being enlightened by a person who's perspective is 180 degrees away from mine. I'm an amateur Atomic Kitty, but I appreciate the thoughtful way you are assisting me ... don't think I'll come around to holding your views but I just may develop into a much more effective communicator.

Forgive me, I'm going out with my daughter now. I'm not avoiding the thought of addressing all issues - objectively - I'm just kind of burned-out.

Yes, in the future, I will make a concerted effort to be more succinct, as well as precise.

Roger that! Very sound advice, even for a moderate. :P

[bigwillq]

155. She has to take responsibility for what she did

but the security system at the Capitol needs a lot of work.
Every cop there should at least know the names and faces. There's a lot of names and faces to know but I feel it's their job to know it.
From what I hear, those tags/pins don't do shit.

It's time for an overhaul of this system.

[radio4progressives]

161. What did she do that she needs to take responsibility for?

and what about the cop?

[bigwillq]

170. Ummm...

she did hit a cop. Last I knew, regardless of the circumstance, that's a no-no. Although I probably would've hit the cop too.
I think the security on Capitol Hill has a lot to be desired and that needs investigating.

If little old me hit a cop, I would be prosecuted. Fined, possibly even jail time, although I really don't know what the sentence would be in my state or in any other state for that matter.

That's what she needs to take responsibility for. Just because you don't get your way all the time, whether you are right or wrong or whether or not she thought there was racial and/or gender bias, we can't just go about hitting people all the time.

Violence is not always the answer.



on edit: I am leaving work now. I am not trying to hit and run. I will check back on this thread tomm.

[ShortnFiery]

249. "you don't get your way all the time"

Yes shame on that SIXTH TERM Congresswoman for believing that a unit as esteemed as the Capitol Hill Police force would not GRAB a woman from behind without pro-va-ca-tion. Did you read SL Jackson's statement above?

[YouthInAsia]

160. But she doesnt deserve CHARGES to be brought against her.

They're foind this SOLEY cuz they (the rethugs) dont like her and dont like her outspokeness.

[radio4progressives]

168. Cynthia McKinney is Guilty as Charged!

Her Crime is having the temerity to speak out to the TPB...

and her sentence? Crucify her for it! In the Media for going on the media, for not going on the media, for going on the record, for not going on the record.. For CBC defending her, for the CBC not defending her..

what did she do this time? Oh, it doesn't really matter! It's that mouth of hers! Nothing Worse than an Uppity Black Woman speaking her mind all the damn time..

[IsItJustMe]

188. Yeah right.

:sarcasm:

[Justice Is Comin]

218. My last post hoping to clarify my

original intent to point out that hypocrisy is rampant in the the repukes. We should be above it.



Was she going into a monumentally security conscious building.....................yes

Was she rushing and late for a vote.......................................................yes

Was she wearing her identifying pin...............................................no

Did she alternatively simply go through the magnamometer..........................no

Did she have a different physical appearance than she had for years previous......yes

Did she acknowledge that the officer "yelled" to her..............................yes

Does the officer have the right to confirm her identity to his satisfaction.......yes

Did the officer have any choice other than to try and stop her from continuing....no

Was the officer in uniform........................................................yes

Was she in any unsafe area where she had reason to fear for her safety............no

Did she have any right to physically resist the officer in any way................no

Was any other Black Congresswoman or otherwise assaulted by a Capitol Hill cop....no

Is Cynthia McKinney known for her fiery personality...............................yes

Was she involved in other Capitol Hill incidents..................................yes

Is terrorism the number one thing the nation has been told to obsess over.........yes

Would the cop face serious jeopardy if a terrorist incident occured in that bldg....yes

If this was a Republican woman who allegedly hit a cop, would DU be all over it...yes



Does Cythina McKinney bear responsibility for where this story is now.............YES!!!

[radio4progressives]

221. Where is your Outrage w/Deputy HSD Pedophile and Child Molester

Where is your outrage?

Interesting that Cynthia is your target..

[IsItJustMe]

230. Man, who are you?

[ShortnFiery]

250. Was her "African American" facial characteristics the same as

before? Yes

Is it true that professional white police officers "are trained" to better recognize the facial distinctions between other races? Yes

Why are police officer, in general, and according to other statements, Capitol Hill Police Officers *specifically* EXTENSIVELY trained in such an area like facial recognition of OUR current Members of Congress? Because it is concurred among most social scientists that "we all" are piss-poor (inaccurate) at distinguishing the different facial characteristics of those who happen to be a member of a race OTHER than OUR OWN.

[IsItJustMe]

190. It's a big world, full of small narrow minded people. You know who you

are.

That is, if you care to take a honest look in the mirror.

[KoKo]

210. Oh for heavens sake...this is a rant rather than based on facts still

needing to be determined about what went on....sheesh!

[IsItJustMe]

212. Black people of the world, know this. There are a lot of idiots out

there. They have been so ingrained and it's so deep. But never give up hope.

[SaveElmer]

223. Are you implying...

That anyone here who disagrees with you on this is an "idiot"?

[IsItJustMe]

233. I'm saying there is no truth to be found in this post.

It's full of diversion, obfuscation, and smoke and mirrors. It serves no honest purpose. It makes me sick. Now please excuse me, I have to go take a shower.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

217. Chuggin' that Koolaid, are ye??

[Katherine Brengle]

219. I agree 100%.

[lithiumbomb]

234. everyone have a beer

I mean, come on. This is basically how much of this discussion has progressed:

"I think Cynthia McKinney is in the wrong"

"Oh yeah? Well then you are:
a republican
a freeper
a racist
an imposter
not really liberal
etc. "

What does this accomplish, really?

[ShortnFiery]

255. You're absolutely right ...

Forgive me for being outspoken in support of McKinney, but like many poor African Americans know, especially in New Orleans, she'd not hesitate to put herself out there on a figurative limb for both the poor and those with no voice (the outcasts of our society).

I want to believe that it's painful for many folks to go up against this Jack Booted Administration's Smear Campaigns without feeling that they must defend the same "talking points" from a fellow Democratic Colleague. I want to believe that we will NOT enable the Republican Smear Machine and the whorish media to "swift boat." Well ... I would like to believe A LOT right now. :-)

[mdmc]

237. they waved her by and then beat her up

God Bless Cynthia McKinney.:patriot:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

256. Here's Cynthia Tucker's opinion on the issue:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucas/20060406/cm_ucas/letssaveracisttagforwhenitreallymatters

[ShortnFiery]

257. I'm so glad CYNthia feels free to give unsolicited advice to

Black leaders. :wtf: is up with that!

I know of many people of color and some women (who claim to have also been sexually abused) jumping ship also.

No, this isn't important, like how? How many other Congress People had THE COURAGE to stand up for the "little people" and now even "some blacks" what to throw her ass overboard. I hope to God that "those few" are NOT representative of our country's African American Leaders.

Just because you happen to also be a person of color, doesn't mean that you're not potentially takin' something or harbor a hidden agenda. Now does it "Michelle? Ooops, my bad ---> make that "Cynthia".

BTW ... and unrelated because I can prove nothing ... how much money is missing from Iraq? ... could some of that un-fucking-believably large chuck-o-change be used as pay offs by the Neo-cons in power to ... um to journalists and/or bloggers for their umm ... spin!?!

The world may never know. :P

[Starbucks Anarchist]

259. Cynthia Tucker IS BLACK.

[ShortnFiery]

261. I know that, and like a fellow sexual assault victim we all should

ASS-U-ME that she's speaking straight up?

No, it's the African American Leaders that should listen to their own intuitions.

You can damn well bet my friends and aquaintences in New Orleans, who also happen to be black, LOVE Congresswoman McKinney. I'd even venture to say, her presence in congress will be a "profound loss" come time we take the Bushies to task and insist on relief for these people, many of them BLACK and living in tent cities. Those that don't have a voice LOVE Mckinney, that's why it's so easy for the Right wing ... with big bucks ... to convince a few well meaning democrats otherwise.

We're a shootin' our own foot.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

263. Your original post (pre-edit) seemed to imply that she was white.

At least that's what it sounded like to me, hence me pointing out Tucker's ethnicity.

She's also the editor-in-chief of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. I'd say that's a sort of leadership role.

[ShortnFiery]

265. You got me there - I should have done my research earlier ...

Now that is admittedly my bad.

My point is the POWERFUL machine we know as the Rove-Co. Republican noise machine brought to you by our whorish corporate media.

The potential pay offs are unlimited. How much did you say was unaccounted for by the pentagon?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

267. I seriously doubt Tucker was paid off.

Now folks like Larry Elder, Jesse Lee Peterson, etc. -- there, I think we'd both agree that they were always in Rove's pocket.

(Edited for spelling mistake).

[Starbucks Anarchist]

260. Tucker said she was all for lifting up black people.

Her article mentioned many disturbing facts and what can be done to resolve them, but she doesn't think McKinney's experience ranks up there:

(snip)

If you're going to call a press conference and muster such prominent supporters as Harry Belafonte and Danny Glover, you ought to be sure the issue is important enough to command national attention. You should save that sort of clarion call for the most serious matters -- renewing the Voting Rights Act or raising the minimum wage so that more black men can support their children. The precious spotlight of national news coverage should not be wasted on a spoiled and demanding congresswoman who thinks she's the Soul Queen of Capitol Hill.

Nor should the Abrams tank of political warfare -- the charge of "racism" -- be rolled out to fight every minor battle. Racism is a shadow of its former self, but it lives yet. You see it in the high rates of harsh discipline meted out to black boys in public schools. You can also see it in the disproportionate numbers of black men sent to prison for crimes they didn't commit.

Certainly, the legacy of racism is alive and well. You can see it in the self-destructive behavior of so many young black men -- the internecine violence, the distorted self-esteem, the worship of thug culture. You can see the legacy of racism in the enduring rates of poverty and poor health among black citizens.

But McKinney's trumped-up charge of racism merely cheapens the term, so that it's less effective when it's needed to discuss genuine discrimination.

[ShortnFiery]

264. Oh trust me ... if the tide turns, many will "turn on Harry Belefonte's

ass." I've read some steamingly scathing commentaries from my fellow democrats.

No, that's why the PSYOPS of the Rove-Co. / Pentagon propaganda machine is so damn effective. They enlist people through mis-information and/or bribes to SELL-OUT their own race. And if you doubt the STRENGH of it's outreach program? Think again?

This woman does not represent BLACK America. You only use her because she's an attractive representative of the African American Race who happens to agree with you.

Well, despite what some say, Ann Coulter is a basically attractive WHITE woman also, but I sure as shit will think twice before adhering to any of her advice.

This is so un-fucking-believeable I'm pinching myself at every opportunity.

I don't know about THIS particular woman but, can we say LARGE CASH SUMS and PLANTS? Yes, I thought we could.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

266. I didn't say she represented black America.

I said she was a black person in a leadership role, not the sole one or the best one. Take a look at her columns on Working For Change (a liberal website). Almost all of them attack Bush and Republicans.

http://www.workingforchange.com/column_lst.cfm?AuthrId=50


And in what universe is Ann Coulter attractive?

[ShortnFiery]

268. OK point taken - She is not a legistator but, in essence, a journalist

She is a Journalist ... for good reason American Journalism is not very well repected right now. Especially for people who are the least bit LIBERAL.

I deplore the media's GUTLESS failures to speak truth to power.

When you claim her to be a journalist, I have to really do some research into her background.

Thanks for keeping me straight on your position.

Oh, to answer your Coulter question: Yeah, go figure, many men think her sexy. Yes, it's lost on me but many even quip that the'd love to "hit it" (have animistic wild sex with her) ... well of course after treating her bony ass to a steak dinner. Now there's a visual for ya? :puke: <giggles>

[Starbucks Anarchist]

269. No problem.

I think Tucker's trustworthy, though. She's a far cry from the Gannon/Guckert school of journalism.

[ShortnFiery]

270. Well then, I will look into her backgroud - perhaps she's up front ...

That's cool - it just "freaks me out" when those of us can't just WAIT (myself included) before we take a firm stance on this... but I fell obligated to defend her.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

272. Totally understandable.

Wow, look at that. This thread actually has two people being civil with each other. :hi:

[ShortnFiery]

273. This is going to sound as corny as Nebraska in July ...

But I just hate it <down to the depths of my soul> when good democrats fight with each other.

It's just so hard to descern what is fact from fiction these days.

Thanks, you too buddy. :pals:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

274. Peace.

:toast:

[JCMach1]

262. Sick of the police just doing their job BS

People always lap it up!

Police are not heroes, they are human beings and as such are subject to racism, etc.

While I will wait to here the facts in the case, I DO NOT belong the police are always right club...

Give me a break!!!

[mondo joe]

285. Police ARE human beings. That's why we have a judicial system

to hear out both sides in a conflict. It's a great shame this case has come to that, but there it is.

I don't know who here said "the police are always right".

[JCMach1]

291. That seemed to be the tone of the post...

Some police deserve to be poked with a phone and more!

[patricia92243]

271. I agree 100%!! All she needs to do is say that it startled her when he

touched her, and instinctively she hit out at him - that she is sorry to have hit a policeman who was only doing his job - that she will wear her identifying pin in the future.

She is making all Democrats look like idiots.

[bigtree]

277. When she walks on this I hope you're not still defending

the fuzz.

The lawyers have done the one smart thing that outweighs all the rest of the blather. They have apparently advised her to refrain from discussing what her actions were in the incident. The Capitol police have made clear that they intend to put the congresswoman in jeapordy with charges. The burden of proof will be on the officer and possibly a prosecutor. It would make no sense at all for Rep. McKinney to say anything about her own conduct. Conversely, it's more than prudent for her to criticize the actions of the Capitol police as she will still have to access the Capitol to do the people's business, and should be allowed to do so from now on without being accosted.