A disturbing trend: Men who think females raping young boys is ok

[Caoimhe]

I was in a chat room today and a respected progressive friend started in about the young man who testified before Congress yesterday about his teen career as an online exhibitionist (can't think of his name off the top of my head) and this person, male.. said "what the hell is his problem, he should just get over it" and "being a victim should have a time limit!" and implied that the boy was just happy to be wanking it and getting paid (among other things apparently).. yet if you substitute boy with girl.. this same person, I am sure, would be disgusted by the adults paying to see this. Why the difference? I happen to have the following opinion and you can agree or disagree.

A child is a child. Perpetuating this myth that young boys are just horndogs that can't be victimized is BULLSHIT. A child cannot give consent. If you have a 14 year old girl who has sex with her 15 year old boyfriend, that's different. Both are minors. Once one is an adult (put that line where you want it, but include voting rights, legal rights, etc in that number) they are responsible for their behavior. A child is not, by law and by common sense. A child cannot "tease" you into molesting them. Adults should understand boundaries. Kids are kids, and they HONESTLY don't know any better. The men (and no it isn't just men, I've heard women with this same stupid opinion) tend to think that if a boy gets some, he's lucky. He's luckier than they were. They often mention a teacher or counselor they were hot for in school, but never got a chance to get physical with. This sickens me.

I've seen a trend in 20-45 year old men that makes me think they long for their teenage "horndog" years, by envying the young male victims of male or especially female sexual predators (turn on the news). It's the same mentality that says that boys cannot be raped, that men cannot be victims of domestic violence. It is the same mentality that prevents those unfortunate boy and adult male victims from reporting what's been done to them.

Just my 2 cents.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Let me be the first in what I'm sure will be a long line...

... to disagree with you.

While there may be niggling details, the spirit behind the phrase "you can't rape the willing" is what we're talking about.

I'll be the first to say it straight up: Yes, I think there is a world of difference which gender the adult it. Flame me if you must, but I think they're radically different practically, emotionally, and (therefore) morally.

[Caoimhe]

4. You anticipate a long line of people to disagree?

We'll see. I think you may be part of the group I described. No?

[BlooInBloo]

6. Yup.

My anticipation is based upon previous thread activity.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

5. Threads that disagree get moved.... Be careful.

:toast:

[BlooInBloo]

8. Yah - somethin you wrote got X'd or somethin didn't it?

doh!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

12. Yes.... It's here now.

http://www.leftandrightfight.com/index.html

[benburch]

9. A female friend of mine tells this story...

When she was 12 she was VERY into Rock & Roll DJs. She called the DJ on her favorite station and asked him to come to her house when her parents were not home. She made an abortive attempt at giving him oral sex (his penis was very large, and she just could not get it into her mouth). And she did the same thing several other times before she came of age (but with different DJs).

Does this make what those guys did right?

I don't think so.

[Caoimhe]

13. ugh.. no

she sounds like a molestation victim. Do you know if she was? Or was she just a major FAN? At age 12 I never even contemplated such things.

[benburch]

14. Never molested. Major DJ Groupie. Her idea. nt

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

15. Same thing happened to me....

when I was 15... But in reverse.

[benburch]

20. Not sure how to parse that?

Elucidate?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

32. I had an affair with an older woman...

Best thing that ever happened to me.

[benburch]

33. Ah!

I was sleeping with the boy next door at 15.

My affairs with older women started with I was 18.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Like you, I think any child who engages in sex with an adult

is very likely to have emotional/spiritual injuries from the encounter. I know of men who, in their youth, went first to a hooker for their "first time"-some were as young as 14. They said they felt demeaned by the experience, and wished they had waited so their first encounter with sex would also have something to do with love and commitment.

[etherealtruth]

3. Adults having sex with "kids" is wrong ...

...regardless of the genders of the perpetrators and the victim. The current spate of stories are particularly disturbing as the adults have been in positions of authority.

I'm with you, it's really disheartening.

* I am not referring to relationships where the 'adult" and child are with in a few years of each other.

[Caoimhe]

10. Right I'm not talking about kids who are 17

having sex with an 18 year old. Though I think the line has been exploited, and plenty of failed 17 to 18 year old sexual relationships have resulted in bogus statutory rape cases, I don't think it's the norm. But when you hear about a 34 (just a number I grabbed out of thin air) year old female teacher having like sex with a young boy 48 times in several days.. you have to wonder how anybody could think this wouldn't affect that child. When he is 34.. will he understand that it is wrong to "finger" a young child in his care? When the bounds are blurred, kids cannot possibly understand or consent.

[etherealtruth]

18. I know, I know ...

I'm really distressed that some don't find this to be an issue of "child protection."

Children don't have the judgment and maturity of adults ... I "kinda" thought that's why we have laws; to protect them from exploitation and abuse.

[Caoimhe]

23. exactly!

we have "age of consent" for a reason. Either we lower it or we don't and we prosecute these cases.

[BlooInBloo]

27. If you're a woman, I can understand you feeling that way...

... I'd be surprised to find many men who (without taking a deliberately skewed sample) feel that way tho.

I really think there's a substantial difference between male n female perspectives on this.

I don't think statistically many men have a humungous oh-my-god-that's-rape-just-like-in-the-witness thing about a 34 yo woman having sex with a 15 yo boy.

It's wrong, sure, but I just don't see it being "as bad" as you seem to - or as bad as grown man/young girl.

Maybe I'm tolly off here (shrug) I dunno.


EDIT: I'm not at all curious about which gender you yourself are. Just pointing out what I think is a difference in assessment that's gender-based.

[Llewlladdwr]

35. How about this....

You okay with a 34 year old man havng sex with a willing 15 year old boy? If not why?

[BlooInBloo]

36. lol - that case pulls in two competing directions....

But I've already acknowledged that *I* think the genders of the participants affects the overall assessment (in my opinion of course) - so what does it matter how I feel about this case?

I would say I feel worse about it than I do about old woman/young dude and better than I feel about old dude/young girl. But that's just guesstimation.

Remind me again why you've deliberately changed the topic from the OPs specific topic?

[porphyrian]

7. Rape is never OK.

I don't think all sex with underage boys is rape, though. Illegal, yes. Pedophilial, by definition. But not necessarily rape.

[sendero]

11. While I think..

.. it is different, but it certainly isn't all right.

And from a legal standpoint women and men must be treated with equality, or what has the entire women's movement accomplished?

There seems to be an epidemic of this behavior. Some say it's just getting reported more, I reject that - the media didn't wake up last year craving sensational stories.

Regardless of the reasons, it is wrong and it needs to be punished the same regargless of the gender roles.

[Disturbed]

22. The term "rape" may be the problem.

When most people think of "rape" it means force in a physical manner. This is not what has occured. It is something else. What is the correct term?

[WestSeattle2]

24. manipulation, grooming, abuse.....n/t

[sendero]

31. But the law..

.... has long held that engaging with sex with a minor is rape since a minor cannot legally give consent.

This would be generally called "statutory rape". I have conflicted feelings about it, but I can understand - if you have sex with a 12 year old girl, it is rape - it has to be the same if you are an adult and have sex with a 12 year old boy too.

I think most people would agree that the situations are not necessarily 100% equivalent, but they have to be treated as such and perpetrators have to understand that.

It seems that these crimes, the ones I've read of anyway, are quite premeditated and it is hard for me to muster a lot of sympathy for the perpetrators.

[cali]

16. His name is Justin Berry and

he absolutely was a victim. Regarding young boys and their teachers; it's always wrong. Authority figures should never take advantage of the young people in their charge. But having said that, I do think there's a difference regarding girls and boys. When my son was not quite 16, he lost his virginity to a young woman who was 22. He suffered no trauma from it and three years later they're still friends. Did I approve? Not terribly, but I didn't see it as a big deal.

[WestSeattle2]

28. I watched his testimony on CNN...

and it was disturbing. I think the most unfortunate thing is that a kids idea of sex and what sex is, becomes horribly twisted.

I believe he is heterosexual by nature, but was engaging in homosexual activity for money. That alone would put most people in therapy. Creepy.

Kids having sex with peers is normal, healthy, and unavoidable. It's gonna happen. Kids having sex with adults is just wrong. Period. No rationalizations.

[MissB]

34. It could've been a big deal had *she* gotten caught.

Very likely, she could've been charged with statuatory rape, depending on the state you live in and the statuatory laws.

It's all fine and dandy for the boy at that age, but the woman assumes a great risk. I certainly would counsel against my sons from getting involved with an older woman during their teenage years - out of respect for her risks.

[karlrschneider]

17. Before a couple of centuries ago, people rarely lived to be 50.

It was acceptable and normal for 14 year olds to become sexually active and parents. Why did this change? (I assume you are familiar with Romeo and Juliet and many Biblical stories demonstrating my observation)...

[Caoimhe]

21. Back then

They held jobs at younger ages, they were expected to make their ways in the world at younger ages for the exact reason you mentioned, they lived shorter lives. That said, I realize that hormones play a part in how these things happen, but in our day and age I would hope for more for a future for the next generation. They can't vote until they are 18... if they can be parents at say age 11, when many girls hit puberty including myself.. shouldn't they have the right to vote to determine their own and their child's future? You gotta take it all or nothing!

[karlrschneider]

26. Well, as for voting...that's a little different from basic sex

which doesn't really require any education as far as I can tell...if I may be permitted a bit of clinical leeway here, as a male I believe I speak for many if not most of my peers - sticking our peepees into a soft warm place feels good and the consequences don't much enter into the decision to stick it, if you get my drift.

I guess I could play "angel's advocate" here and mention the "go forth, be fruitful and multiply" bit from a certain book we all know about...that particular injunction contains no restrictions as to species or quantity that I can see.

Perhaps a longer life span also has the added benefit (or curse, depending on your take on 'morals') of giving more years of sexual pleasure. It does SEEM that way. I see 13 year olds these days who look to me just like what 18 year olds did when I was that age. (And a lot of them behave that way too.)

[Blue_Tires]

19. yeah, i've been sickened by it as well

but that's just my own personal feeling

[tnlefty]

25. If an adult were to try to initiate sex with, or be successful with having

sex with one of my minor sons, it isn't 'having sex', or 'making love' it is molestation or rape and she/he had better be prepared for a living nightmare. Females who assault boys are no different than males who assault females.

When I was in my teens, not quite 18, a boy who I had always been friendly with repeatedly asked me to 'teach him about what to do' and I told him no. I was 3 yrs. older than he and even though he asked me persistently for 2 yrs. runnin' I told him it just felt wrong and that he would figure it out with his girlfriend. I did give him a small copy of the Karma Sutra and told him that the 2 of them could read through it and figure it out together, but egads, it just felt wrong and I was 3 yrs. older than he. Of course I also stressed birth control, etc., but I didn't make any excuses for being tempted (he was cute and VERY eager), but even though I wasn't an adult I knew it was wrong.

Had we been the same age sparks would've been flying and the earth would've been moving, but we weren't.

[KAZ]

29. Let's pull back the curtain a bit...

...while I agree with what you say, many of us(guys) think about our formative years, and project the things we've learned since, into a strange kind of fantasy. I endured 8 years of Catholic school, but was blessed with a lay teacher(6th grade) who was the subject of many confused, young boy fantasies. Back then, you didn't know much at 12, but boy we talked about it. My yearning to look good in her eyes made me go from a "D" in the first quarter in Social Studies, to an "A" in the second quarter; plus the fact that she was a really good teacher. A teacher's approval is so important at that age.

But I need to say this. I am blessed that my good looking teacher didn't assault me. I probably would have bragged about it at the time, but would have been poorer from it subsequently. And that's without all of the social stigma that comes with the opposite (male/female) assault.

Waters said it best, leave the kids alone.

[rudy23]

30. If it wasn't about control, the women would be with men their own age

This is from a man who would've loooooooooved to have some of my teachers come on to me.

However, there's a big, BIG, difference between fantasy and reality. In men's "teacher fantasies", they control the scenario. That's the key.

These boys are preyed upon because these women have a screwed up sense of entitlement, and want to be with someone they have absolute control over. The fantasy sounds nice, but in many cases, I believe the boys are being controlled and manipulated, and maybe don't feel like they can say no. It's a big problem in society--albiet dwarfed by the things women have to face--the idea that men are never supposed to say no to sex.

I feel like there has to be some serious psychological trauma inflicted on these guys. Sure, I guess it's possible that it could be a fun, nice, romantic thing, for two consenting people, in theory. If these women wanted romance with a young man though, why didn't they just go after men in college? That they would go after their own student, tells me the nature of the relationship is about dominance and manipulation.

There are books about female predators, and the consequences for the male victims are not good. It's not good to let these kinds of women push the envelope, then hide behind their femininity.

[EST]

37. I will brook no quibbles.

It is absolutely the responsibility of the adult, one hundred percent of the time, to see to it that the minor with whom they are associated is protected.
There are no gray areas. If you are beyond the age of consent, anyone under the age of consent is to be treated as less than fully competent and unable to make certain decisions responsibly.
It does not matter how well developed the minor is or appears to be. It does not matter that this innocent bit of fluff is hell bent on getting laid and is just going to get it somewhere, anywhere--as the responsible adult, you will NOT fulfill a minor's fantasy or your own.
Boys and men show a remarkable propensity for putting their peckers into anything and everything, as a general rule, and as an adult male, your pecker is not to be in any minor and as an adult female,the same thing applies--nothing that smacks of sexual activities with minors--period--no exceptions!

Now, wasn't that easy?

[bloom]

38. I've noticed - there have been some people

here who like to argue for sex between 13 or 14 year olds or either sex having sex with adults. Some based on their own experience - some on what they supposedly wish was their experience. And some argue that there shouldn't be laws about such things - that it's too much of an imposition on people.

I think it's ridiculous. When I hear that some creep was caught in an internet sting trying to meet up with who he thought was a 14 year old - I think that is a good thing. While men are committing the vast majority of the crimes - boys account for about half of the victims....

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As far definitions and such go - For this study at least - A "child" is 13 or younger - a child molester has to be 5 years older than the victim


From the study - est. 27,160,752 adult females and 12,222,388 adult males are survivors of childhood sexual abuse.

http://www.childmolestationprevention.org/pdfs/study.pdf