When Did We Lose our concept of Truth?

[leftyladyfrommo]

Have we ever been truthful about anything?

Have you ever noticed that if you simply speak the Truth as you know it people do not know how to deal with it? We are taught to say only the acceptable thing - not the truthful thing? And I'm not talking about people who use "truth" to slam in people's faces as a hurtful thing. I am just talking about normal everyday stuff.

The truth seems to be that we lie about just about everything. Honesty and truthfulness are simply not in our culture.

[Atman]

1. December, 2000

;-)

[drdtroit]

2. It's the "Great American Identity Crisis"

What do you expect from a culture that values human beings strictly by how much wealth one amasses?
We are in a world of trouble.

[BOSSHOG]

3. Since "Christians" took over the administration?

[FiveGoodMen]

8. I'll second that.

[sam sarrha]

14. I think we should be sure to understand 'Which Christians'... LINK>>

http://www.insider-magazine.com/ChristianMafia.htm

this is a fascinating story... not all christians are the problem, just the Fellowship and some fundie types that are grabbing for power and control.

i am not saying some of the others dont have their own problems, but they might some day 'Evolve' and crawl out of the mire of confusion about what Jesus really did.

[IsItJustMe]

4. Water Gate.

[leftofthedial]

5. 12-2000

now the truth paralyzes public discourse, which is entirely built on a foundation of increasingly absurd lies

[SmokingJacket]

6. This is one of the most important issues of our time.

I recently had a big problem when I said something true and even obvious in public -- and got a lot of shit thrown at me. But more shocking was that so many people came up to me afterwards, secretly, to say, "you're so brave! Thank you!"

:crazy:

I don't want to go into greater detail, but the point is that yes, so many people are much more concerned with pleasing people in power -- both on the right and the left! -- than in stating the truth.

[leftyladyfrommo]

19. I think you may be right.

I worked for 6 months in a bank. No one there ever was truthful about anything. There was this set concept of what a bank employee should sound like and be like. I have never run into so many "perfect" people in my life. No one was anything more than a cardboard cut-out sitting at a desk.

It was most depressing. I am at a point in my life where I don't want to have to lie about anything anymore. But I don't know if the world is ready for such a thing.

[johnnie]

7. When did we *lose* it?

Looking back on history, I don't think that the truth was ever really as important as lying to get what you wanted.

[leftyladyfrommo]

11. That's what I'm afraid of.

Lying is so ingrained in our culture that we just think it's normal.

Don't you wonder what things would be like if people actually said what is true. This country would be a much different place.

I think that might be what I like about Wes Clark. He seems to be a straight shooter - and it's like a cool wind blowing thru.

[Mythsaje]

9. The other day

someone sent one of those hoax e-mails through one of my author's lists. You know, telling about a confrontation in a restaurant with "liberals" that never really happened.

I couldn't let that slide, so I countered with the fact that the list wasn't the place for political crap and that the story wasn't true in the first place. One of the FIRST replies was someone saying that he was glad I didn't post my political views there because he agreed with the original post. Typical RWer. "It doesn't matter if it's true or not if I agree with it."

It touched off a minor firestorm and yesterday I received a personal e-mail from someone thanking me for taking a stand.

[Solly Mack]

10. The very second the victors got to write the history

I'm not being a smartass....sorry if it sounds that way

We use as an example of not lying by claiming Washington cut down a cherry tree and then boldly claimed he could not tell a lie....the message is...Our President would never lie...not even as a child...see how good he is...so be like the President and never lie!

Yet does anyone have a shred of proof that actually happened?

So we teach children not to lie with a lie(or sweet little harmless myth of American folklore if you prefer - however, I don't prefer)...we teach them to believe a President wouldn't lie by telling a lie about a President.

Dunno about others but that strikes me as well, very telling about our country.. for me anyway, it pretty much says it all

[Inland]

12. Bush campaign began with conscious desire to deceive.

Born out out of the knowledge that a right wing agenda was unpopular, they went about fooling all of the people some of the time, and used the same tactic on every issue thereafter.

Here's my journal entry.



If Bush were honest, he would never have become president.
Posted by Inland in General Discussion
Sat Apr 01st 2006, 07:49 AM
Bush's positions and values are contrary to the vast majority of Americans, and required a stealth candidacy from day one. Everything he did was with the knowledge that he had to tell us one thing about what he wanted to accomplish, while he winked at the far right wing and sent his supporters and RW media out to tell the RW groups what was REALLY going to happen.

He had to have plausible deniability about what he wanted to accomplish, on wealth and taxes (shovel money to his wealthy patrons), on the supreme court (ending abortion), in the national security state (return to cold war), on the environment (give away resources and end all that BS about survival), about church state relations (make the state an adjunct of churches and vice versa). If anyone can find an instance of where Bush or his campaign clearly and forthrightly described in 2000 what actually happened in any of these areas, I'd like to see it.

For example, taken at face value, Bush wasn't anti abortion. I don't think you could even google up a statement about wanting abortion to be made illegal, or Roe v. Wade reversed. Instead, all he does is use code words about "judicial activism", intended to leave the majority that wants Roe in the dark whle telling everyone who has been supplied the Conservative Decoder Ring by their church or right wing radio exactly what they want to hear. Because while Bush never drew the direct connection between ending "judicial activism" and ending Roe, Rush and Hannity and pastors did. It wasn't coincidence, it was the plan. And it was repeated in just about any policy area you want to name.

That's even without the nine eleven, which just provided the opportunity to have another entire set of lies that disguised his true goals and purposes. He tells us he wants peace and disarmament, and tells Blair he's going in on a goal he developed on September 15.

He's a lying shit. They do it reflexively now, even for things that by themselves seem innocuous, because they know that there's so much incompetence and conservative skulduggery that the entire government is like a sweater with a million strings to pull to unravel it.

[leftyladyfrommo]

16. I really think Bush has no concept of truth or honesty

Comes from the corporate idea that the important thing is to win - whatever it takes and whoever it hurts.

We really need to work on this if we are ever going to have a decent government.

[Inland]

18. Oh, I think he knows what truth is. I think he consciously avoids it

He knows what would be true, and thinks, "oh, no, that's the LAST thing I want them to hear."

[leftyladyfrommo]

20. Bush or Rove? Hard to know who is the puppet and who is the

puppeteer?

Living with Barbara Bush must have been hard. She must have set one hell of an example, don't you think?

[bryant69]

13. There is no Truth

As a society we are quickly developing mechanisms that make sure that the information we are presented with confirms to our world view. These mechanisms are entirely self selecting, and thus very effective. Democrats and conservatives can each exist in their on happy bubbles never experiencing a view point or factual information that contradicts what they already believe. And if, by some mistake, they encounter a fact that doesn't fit their preconcieved notions, they simply employ two magic words that cause the fact to dissappear. "Media Bias."

I will note that Conservatives are quite a bit further down this path than Liberals, but I have some confidence that we will catch up to them.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[spanone]

15. Newt Gingrich.

[screembloodymurder]

17. We didn't, they did.

I never tell a lie.