Male athletes more likely than other men to rape, Duke, etc.

[bloom]

Several studies have found male athletes to be more likely than other men on campus to commit sexual assaults.

In a study of victims of sexual aggression at a large midwestern university, male athletes were greatly overrepresented among the assailants described by the women surveyed. Though men on sports teams were less than 2 percent of the total male population on campus, they made up 23 percent of the attackers in sexual assaults and 14 percent in attempted sexual assaults.15

At another university, an anonymous survey found that men on varsity, revenue-producing teams, such as football and basketball, self-reported higher rates of sexually abusive behavior.16

Gang rapes on campus are most often perpetrated by men who participate in intensive male peer groups that foster rape-supportive behaviors and attitudes. One review of 24 alleged gang rapes found that in 22 of the 24 documented cases, the perpetrators were members of intercollegiate athletic teams or fraternities.17

Involvement in all-male peer groups may insulate some men from doubts about the inappropriateness of their behavior, particularly when their team or fraternity holds prestige on campus.

http://www.edc.org/hec/pubs/factsheets/fact_sheet3.html#athletes

at Duke:

"Similarly, I know that at one point, campus women were aware of sexual assault and harassment by lacrosse players. The house they lived in was repeatedly toilet papered — and once, upon seeing the black-clad women tp-ing the house I asked why. Their reply: to warn other undergraduate women that a woman had been assualted while at a lacrosse party."

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/29/duke-rape-case-round-up/

Sounds like Duke was used to "taking care of these things" sort of like the Catholic Church and molesting priests:

"In a conversation Friday afternoon with John Burness, Duke's senior vice president for public affairs (aka the man in charge of Duke's image), I learned that the university was fully aware of the antics of its lacrosse team before the sensational gang-rape investigation.

Burness said that Durham police had been asked to inform the university when its students were arrested in town. The charges then were dealt with in the student court system...

My point was that, whatever comes of the rape allegations, the lacrosse team was widely known to be out of control long before those allegations were ever made."

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/424766.html

I think there are a lot of people wrongly assuming that without the public pressure this case would have been handled adequately by the county court system:

"We will begin by reviewing all available records -- disciplinary records and complaints made to the Duke and Durham police -- and we'll look at the various procedures in place for monitoring the conduct of students in general, and athletes in particular, to determine the adequacy of those," the statement said.

Fifteen players -- about one-third of the team -- had previous criminal charges in Durham in the past three years, mostly related to drunken and disruptive behavior. Most of those charges were resolved in deals with prosecutors that allowed the players to escape criminal convictions.

http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/425837.html

Also see:

http://justice4twosisters.blogspot.com/

--------

The gang rape is the essential scene of the patriarchy

...It’s the patriarchy in its essence, where the leaders of male dominance are active sadists but their followers have managed to convince themselves they do like women, they aren’t evil, etc. In the article, it’s noted that often in a gang rape, some participants will help the victim clean up, give her money, even walk her home (presumably to protect her from rape). Accusations of effeminence are used to keep unwilling participants in the game. The victims are objects of male bonding.

I’ve joked in the past that the states that are lining up now to ban abortion after South Dakota reminds me of a gang rape. It does. The psychology is exactly the same–ganging up to show off who’s the most masculine, who can hurt the victims the most. And the victims are always, always pegged as guilty.

Criminologists say that a lot of young men who participate in gang rapes would never rape a woman on their own. That strikes me as accurate–the pressure to conform and participate is probably enormous. It’s good evidence for the feminist assertion that rape is a tool of male dominance–the psychology is a lot like that of war–you must be brutal to the target to show your loyalty to the group. That the violence on average in gang rapes is worse than most other rapes is more evidence of this.

http://pandagon.net/2006/03/29/the-gang-rape-is-the-essential-scene-of-the-patriarchy/

[Redstone]

1. Well, of course. In America, if you play a sport well, you get treated

like you can do no wrong your entire life.

So is it a suprise that those guys beat and rape women? The sports worship in this country is revolting, and has revolting consequences.

Redstone

[unblock]

20. i'd bet the causation works the other way

more likely the hormones and traits (e.g., aggressiveness) that make one predisposed to rape under the wrong circumstances can turn one into a great athlete under the right circumstances.

[bloom]

23. Maybe to some extent

but it's my impression that men are taught that this behavior is acceptable - because in their group it is. And that is backed up by police who look the other way. And by community members (and people nationally and even internationally) who support them no matter what they do.

Didn't Mike Tyson have his supporters throughout and after his rape conviction(s)?

The question is what is up with a culture that keeps rewarding and excusing this type of criminal behavior.

[demigoddess]

45. study on boys and their hormones says that competing makes testosterone

levels rise and when they win the testosterone levels go higher still. Gang rape seems almost inevitable. Maybe they should be kept away from women during training and the season of their sport.

[CTyankee]

2. This is chilling

It is so horrifying to read this. Thank you for sharing this information with us. It is edifying. I am shocked and disgusted by it, as all of us on DU should be. This is the worst of the worst.

[bloom]

4. I think the gang rape stats...

"One review of 24 alleged gang rapes found that in 22 of the 24 documented cases, the perpetrators were members of intercollegiate athletic teams or fraternities."

Clearly show that Universities need to do more to prevent this from happening. I suspect that it is the very thing that the coaches do that they think is positive - bonding, the entitlement (to win) mentality, etc. that is leading to the gang rape mentality. I have read other studies which suggest that when equality as a value is promoted - there are less rapes.


Thanks for the thanks.

[CTyankee]

17. My husband is a big fan of UCONN women's basketball

To him, the women's game is better and more interesting. Geno Auriemmo has created a great team over the years, with all the bonding and strengthening of the team players. These young women are very good students and they all graduate. It is a wonderful example of good sports(wo)manship and team discipline. However, I can't say the same for the Rutger's women's team. For some reason, its coach encourages trash talking as an offense tactic.

[LongTomH]

3. This is horrifying but old news!

This isn't the first time someone has pointed out the association between athletes and sexual assaults.

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. But we still encourage our sons to become athletes.

Disconnect?

[shanti]

39. don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

sports have SAVED many a child, make no mistake about that! my son was pretty uncontrollable until he discovered an interest in basketball. i have nutured this interest (more of an obsession now) and he is a totally different child. his grades, maturity, and attitude have all improved tremendously. a college scholarship is our goal.

that said, i remember after one hs game, the sheriff that was overseeing the game called him a "stud". i overheard it and it gave me an icky feeling.

as a responsible parent (single parent i might add), it's my duty to teach my son how to treat women and i have. he's very much a leader not a follower, so it is doubly important.

peace

[cally]

6. I had never seen these studies

Thanks for the research. We need to target HS and college teams with prevention.

[bloom]

7. I hadn't either

I expected there would be a correlation - it's actually worse than I thought.

[newswolf56]

8. The professional athlete is the archetypal American superman:

unspeakably greedy and bottomlessly contemptuous of all weaker beings (whether male or female). The professional athlete is typically a man of average or sub-average intelligence whose genetic inheritance includes the capability for unusual brawn, who has been taught from birth the whole world is his for the taking, and who now is licensed to regularly commit violence to entertain the very weaklings he despises. Like the mobster, he is a true microcosm of capitalism -- and therefore of course a Hero to the public. His penchant for rapine is merely an especially obscene and hurtful extension of his contempt for us untermenschen: anyone who is physically weaker, less greedy, less wealthy, more controlled by humanitarian impulses.

Thank you for posting this. I have already saved it to my files because it statistically confirms something I (as a slight-statured male savagely bullied by jocks throughout my high school years) have suspected nearly all my life.

_________
Edit: typo.

[bloom]

10. You're welcome

It's interesting that Superman was alternately geeky and macho. And yet when he was in macho mode - it was always "truth, justice, and the American Way!"

I don't know what percentage of athletes fall into the dark side - but when you have whole teams who won't talk - they clearly have abandoned truth and justice. Unfortunately - Bush, etc. is turning this into the "American Way".

[newswolf56]

15. Vital clarification (and sorry for the confusion):

I didn't mean superman in the comic book sense; I meant superman as an English synonym for ubermensch -- superman not just in the Nietzschean sense, but specifically as the Nazis applied the concept: in other words, the athlete as the American version of the master race, with all the male-supremacist brutality implicit therein. Hence too the athlete as the microcosm of capitalism (the distillate of the "chosen people"/supremacist values at the core of Abrahamic religion) and therefore the microcosm of patriarchy itself.

[bloom]

31. I knew you meant something along those lines

but it just made me think of the Superman role model and how he was portrayed.

I looked it up and the comic was originally created in '38. When people in the US were not necessarily thinking the Nazis were bad. I wonder how the ideas relate? I'll bet there are books on the subject.


But yeah - I think a lot of people become so enmeshed in the "SuperMAN" /capitalist / male supremacist / patriarchal thing that they don't realize it. And the athletes do become the Superheros these days.

It's weird to me how high on a pedestal some people put them. At least with the Olympics the pedestal - while real - is temporary. With many sports figures the (imaginary) "pedestal" removes the Superheros from responsibility. You see that here from time to time - always the benefit of the doubt and then some.

[NashVegas]

9. Super-Competitive

Ever hear a guy in competition say, "I made so and so my bitch."

I used to hear it all the time when I was involved in online gaming, at the highest levels of competition, after one of these guys made a successful attack.

[quinnox]

11. this isn't surprising

You know the saying, "young, dumb and full of ---" So you combine that will an even more aggressiveness that should be present in competitive athletes and also testosterone, then you have some males who are really horny and can't control their primal impulses.

[salin]

12. add to that the 'pass' and then sense of entitlement that some athletes

are given - and it is a dangerous mix.

[quinnox]

13. yup

[blue neen]

14. IMHO, it's more about power and control

than actual sexual drive. It's violent, and a lot of sports are violent. They have been encouraged to be that way by coaches, each other, and society in general. THEY GET POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT FOR VIOLENCE every day in their respective sport.

[Nikki Stone 1]

16. K & R

:kick:

[etherealtruth]

18. Here's an other kick and recommendation ....

Whatever happened to the idea that there are responsibilities that come with certain positions vs. entitlements.

[bloom]

19. also see: blackfeminism.org

http://blackfeminism.org/index.php/2006/03/28/duke-u-lacrosse-team-rape-case/


&

Rachel's Tavern:

http://www.rachelstavern.com/blog_comment.asp?bi=321

http://www.rachelstavern.com/blog_comment.asp?bi=329&m=4&y=2006&d=1&s=

[Solly Mack]

21. A 12 year old girl was held hostage and repeatedly raped by 47

boys and men...ages ranging from 13 - 24. She was held in a van, in a strip-mall parking lot from Friday evening until Monday mid-morning. The boys actually came to school bragging about it. Boasting "Did you get some of that?" - I turned them in.

The majority of the boys and men involved played sports - or had once played sports at the high school involved. The middle school aged boys also played sports for the middle school.

I often wondered if there was a correlation.

[Catherine Vincent]

30. That is just horrible!

What ever became of this? Did the perps do time?

[Solly Mack]

35. Only 4 went were arrested and 3 actually tried.

The 4th, a 17 year old, was allowed to join the Navy on a waiver.

The other 3 that were charged basically got off with probation and some of the more serious charges dropped.

They drove the little girl around to various neighborhoods, offering up to their buddies. Then they parked the van in the parking lot and left her there while they went to school - where they bragged to the class as a whole about their actions. Like it was no big deal. Like it was cool. They asked this one student, an African-American, where he was the night before since they had been in his neighborhood - that he had "missed out"...and the young man said "Man, you're nuts. You white boys can do things like that and get away with it...but they'd lynch us" The rapists just laughed at that.

I sat to the right of that student in class. I still remember his name. Behind me was another girl - we couldn't believe what we were hearing. I was turned around facing her. The 2 boys bragging were standing next to the desk of the African-American student. I'll never forget that day - or the names of the boys involved. I excused myself from class - bathroom - and went immediately to a teacher I thought I could trust. I was wrong. But after I threatened to tell the police that the school administration refused to do anything - they got the message and they called the police. They found the little girl.

The little girl was mildly mentally challenged and was walking down the street by her house when they picked her up. She had gotten angry with her parents and was, supposedly, running away from home.

The local paper all but called her "trailer trash" and went on and on about her "poor family" and her "bad parents"....blaming the family and the little girl for what happened but never saying it outright. But refusing to name the boys...their names didn't come out until later - after the hatchet job on the girl and her family.

They used a kitchen spatula on the little girl.

Classmates laughed. Made the same kind of comments we've all heard before - "why was she out walking?", "she liked it", "she wanted it", "she deserved it"

In court the lawyers used the "good boys from good families" line - "don't run their whole futures over something they did as boys" and the classic, "boys will be boys"

This happened during my senior year in high school. 81/82.

[bloom]

37. It's hard to know what to say to that.

It is incredibly awful. That it happened. That the rapists were proud of themselves. That the school officials didn't want to get involved.

There is no excuse for people excusing this stuff. I can't fathom it.

[Solly Mack]

41. I'm 42 years old now and I will never forget it

Or understand it really.

I think about that little girl a lot. Wonder how her life went.

The younger sister of the one that went into the Navy played on the softball team with me. The day after her brother had to leave she was upset and crying at school. But she wasn't upset that her brother raped a little girl - she was upset he had to go away when the other boys didn't. It "wasn't fair" -
That's when I learned that his parents made the deal with the prosecution - to teach him "some responsibility"..

I felt pity for her...she was in real pain and because she couldn't see beyond her own pain. Another team-mate was hugging her...and I couldn't help but wonder if they would so readily hug the little girl who got raped.

[Catherine Vincent]

50. You did a good thing by reporting what you heard.

I can't imagine something like that happening although it does, more than we ever know. And all those guys, if only they would think to themselves would they want something like that to happen to their sister, cousin, mother or any female they love. I regret that every last one of them didn't do any time. It's times like that when some people say there's hell on earth. :-(

[Blue Diadem]

58. Thank you for turning them in.

It breaks my heart to know what that girl went through. I thank you for being there and doing the right thing.

[bloom]

22. It took police 4 days to go search the house

to find evidence. It's amazing they found as much as they did.

"City Manager Patrick Baker said it took police 31 hours to begin their search of the house. Police records suggest it took at least 47 hours. Baker said officers were waiting for the alleged victim to give her full story."

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=triangle&id=4063096

[genie_weenie]

24. Several Books were published on this subject

by the authors Don Yaeger and Jeff Benedict, concerning the Pro Athlete and violent, aberrant behavior.

Pros & Cons: The Criminals Who Play in The NFL
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0446524034/sr=8-2/qid=1144420085/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-1794611-9655007?%5Fencoding=UTF8

And
Public Heroes, Private Felons: Athletes and Crimes Against Women
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1555533167/ref=pd_sim_b_2/103-1794611-9655007?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

And
Out of Bounds : Inside the NBA's Culture of Rape, Violence, and Crime
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00076F0DY/ref=pd_sim_b_2/103-1794611-9655007?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

[bloom]

25. It's interesting

how some people in the comments section dismiss the book as "misandry". While it is their excusing attitude that contributes to the problem.


Editorial Reviews (Public Heroes, Private Felons: Athletes and Crimes Against Women)
From Library Journal
Benedict, former research director, Center for the Study of Sport in Society, offers a controversial documentary chronicling recent cases of women sexually abused and battered by professional and college athletes. Assigned to collect data to refute the growing perception that athletes commit a disproportionate percentage of crimes against women, Benedict instead found evidence that male athletes actually are more likely to commit such crimes. The sudden status accorded an American sports hero, his inflated income, the protection provided by coaches and agents, and the adulation of groupies all help to insulate violent athletes, whom young men often emulate, ironically, as role models....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1555533167/ref=pd_sim_b_2/002-0418338-1587244?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

[genie_weenie]

26. It makes perfect sense

take a young man, make him focus on aggressive tendencies, give him adulation throughout his life, shield him when he commits minor infractions (or even major ones), lord monies and fame upon his head and this is the result. Amoral behavior.

What I don't understand is how any middle class family (read father/son) can idolize athletes that no longer have anything in common with them. Maybe it's just the clumsy projection of desires and wants, but I fell ZERO affinity for a baseball player making 9 million dollars. It's not like in my grandfathers day when the majority of ball players needed a job in the off season to make ends meet.

[bloom]

28. While I can see the rational

that players should not just work so the mangers and owners make a lot of money - clearly the current system is not good. And I don't know what it would take to turn things around. It seems like it's on track to get worse.

Maybe more people are going to have to get involved - think about priorities. At least at the University level - it seems criminal in itself how much money the Sports programs get and what coaches are paid relative to (other) faculty. If the universities are creating teams of rapists - then no matter how much money the Sports programs bring in - it is of no positive consequence.

Students would be better off favoring schools with no sports (outside of intramurals) and no fraternities.

[KansDem]

27. I have to chime in here...

While growing up, I played 11 years straight of organized sports. I played 4 years of Little League, 3 years of Pop Warner football, 2 years on the high school track team and cross country team, and 2 years of college handball.

I think I can speak from experience when I denounce the fawning and adoration given to athletes in this country. We take young men and propel them to stardom virtually overnight. We give them millions of dollars and a lifestyle only dreamed about by others. While some may be able to handle this, others can't. By not allowing these young men to "grow up"--maturing requires the ability to respect and interact with others--we are giving immense power to immature men. Where they lack in social graces and respect for others, they make up for in ego. And we will always be getting crappy "role models" if we continue putting them on pedestals.

So, wake up America, your "sports idols" are nothing more than troglodytes with a fat wallets--always a bad mix.

Plato had it right--a man's eduction should strive to mix equally gymnastics and music ("sports" with "culture"). This is sound advice. Whoever wins the next Super Bowl or World Series, I say "big deal." Show me what they can do with Mahler's fifth symphony. Then I'll decide if they've achieve Plato's vision of the educated citizen.

[bloom]

29. Culture

Thomas Frank of "What's the Matter with Kansas" was explaining how Republicans (at least the wingnut types - not necessarily the traditionalists) are against "culture" - sort of like their being against intellectualism only more specific. So as art and poetry and an appreciation of other's cultures are disdained (notice how little they care if ancient cultural artifacts in Iraq, etc. are destroyed) - sports becomes the only "culture" that they recognize (and maybe "American Idol" or some nonsense).

It's bad and getting worse.

[Leeny]

32. Two cents

I'm afraid that it has become part of a culture that objectifies women and views them mainly in terms of their sexuality. I remember reading a report, this was maybe 20 years ago, where they asked young men on college campuses (not just athletes) if they thought they could rape a woman and not get caught would they do it. About 70% said they would. Scared the shit out of me to think that was true. (Huge disclaimer here since I can't remember where I read that, but I was doing some general research on domestic violence and came across that lovely little tidbit.) But it's that whole "she really wants it" or "she says no, but she means yes" that we learn from all the shit on TV, in the movies, etc.

Am I off base here?

[bloom]

34. I've heard that "if you could get away with it..."

thing as well. I don't have the numbers - but yeah - it is bad. It seems that the athletes/frat boys are more likely to actually think they can get away with it.

This was published last fall (UK) - it shows how bad people's attitudes toward rape victims can be. And a lot of times - it's the women who blame the victim, as well. Makes it more difficult to get convictions with attitudes of blaming the victim, defending the sports star. And it doesn't help when sports writers and others push that attitude.

One in three blames women for being raped

David Fickling
Monday November 21, 2005
The Guardian

One in three people believes that women who behave flirtatiously are at least partially responsible if they are raped, a report published today reveals. A similar number think that women are partially or wholly responsible for being raped if they are drunk, and more than a quarter believe women are responsible if they wear sexy or revealing clothing.

The Amnesty International report was described as "shocking" by the group's UK director, Kate Allen. "The government's policies on tackling rape are failing and failing badly," she said. Nearly 15% of respondents thought a woman would be partly responsible for being raped if she was known to have many sexual partners, and 8% totally responsible...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,2763,1647344,00.html?gusrc=rss

[Leeny]

36. Comparison

The idea that women really "want it" no matter what they say is taught in our society. It's another way to subjugate women. When you compare the question of "if you could get away with it" with rape vs. some other form of violent, physical assault, why is it different. If you said "If I could beat the crap out of someone with a baseball bat and not get caught I would do it." It's because raping a woman is not such a big deal. The act of rape itself is somehow not viewed in the same way, although it is one of the most devastating of violent crimes. Somehow I think that the young man who would do it doesn't view it in the same way. They see rape as sex and not as a violent crime.

[bloom]

38. That's one reason

why I don't like the way porn is accepted - because it seems to help indoctrinate people into that viewpoint.

Recently I was researching the subject and noticed a quote by a serial rapist that it was his intent to degrade and humiliate women. Otherwise he would do something else. Of course - different rapists have different mindsets and all. However - power/subjugation definitely seems to be a common denominator.

[Leeny]

42. Me too

I'm glad you said that. I hate porn; I think it's a big part of the problem. I hesitated to say that earlier because whenever I do I'm accused of being against freedom of speech, or I'm accused of being a prude, or whatever. But I'd like to make a distinction between porn and erotica. I think sexual expression is fine, erotica is okay. But porn is more about the objectification or subjugation of women. Many times it shows violent, degrading, humiliating acts against women. It portrays women as sex crazed and shallow. Say you're in your local Stop n Shop... If you saw a magazine cover showing a picture of a woman with her hands bound or shackled and a man standing over her that's okay, that's porn, it's just a woman. But replace that woman with a black man with his hands bound; there would be an outcry. There should be an outcry. That would be racist. We don't/I don't accept that. But if it's a woman, no one is concerned. I think it's just wierd.

[bloom]

47. I have posted about it

quite a bit - and I do get a lot of heat from certain quarters.

I don't like the idea that some want to push that people on the left are supposed to tolerate the degradation of women for the benefit of someone else's so called "freedom of speech" (these people are mostly libertarians - I have discovered). There are quite a few "Followers of Flynt" around here who buy into that.

If you notice my journal - I have various posts on the subject.

These bloggers post on the subject - from a left perspective - and have more links:

http://laurelin.wordpress.com/

http://www.bitingbeaver.blogspot.com/


And there are these writers who address it as well:

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/home.htm http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/%7Erjensen/freelance/genderarticles.htm

http://www.stangoff.com/

[PassingFair]

65. I don't think you're off base at all.

I believe that the SAME mentality is involved at strip "clubs".
All those men "getting off" simutaneously.
There seems to be a desire to want to get into
the "gene pool" on the sly. Without obligation.

It certainly warrants study.

[Blue_Roses]

46. well said!

:applause:

[The2ndWheel]

33. Male scientists more likely than other men

to develop smart weapons to kill human beings from thousands of miles away.

[TimeChaser]

44. Yeah, and male lawyers are more likely than other men

to be in a court room.

Seriously, what's the point of your post? :shrug: Are you trying to minimalize serious problems like rape and violence against women?

[The2ndWheel]

53. That's exactly what I'm doing

By pointing out serious problems of violence against poor people half way around the world, as one of the results of what scientific education has brought us.

No, my point was more in response to some of the responses, and not the study itself. Sports, like everything else(including education), has it's good points and bad points. For all the greed and excessive competition and violence against women, it can also build team work, and self confidence, and whatever else.

Just because you play a sport doesn't mean you're more likely to be below average in intelligence. Talk about a stereotype. How about how the majority of the geeks in highschool, that feel picked on by the jocks, end up being the people that put all that money in their pockets, or put on all the commercials that glorify the superman athlete, or put all the young women in bikini's on TV standing around while the men drink beer watching a game. The geeks are good with numbers, and couldn't get any in highschool, so they're acting out their own fantasy, because they don't like women, because they were rejected, and had their sexual development arrested at 15.

[bloom]

55. you sound like a(n ex-) jock with a chip on your shoulder. n/t

[The2ndWheel]

62. Never played a sport in school

Never looked up to professional athletes when I was in school. Never touched a girl in an inappropriate way because I thought she was mine for the taking. Never felt I was entitled to a damn thing, especially grades.

Any other clique you want to lump me into?

It's just the excessive bashing of sports in general in the thread that goes a little too far. I'm not arguing with the ridiculous money, and undeserved privilege that athletes can get, and whatever else. I was going far with the "geek" comparison to make a point. Everything on this planet has it's positive and negative side. Just because you're an athlete, doesn't mean you're going to rape a female because of your rage. Just because you're an intellectual, doesn't mean you're odd around girls and hate them for not talking to you.

[bloom]

63. It might be

that there are very few sports stars who are out there raping and gang-raping - and that those few who do - are doing a lot of it. (I hope you at least bothered to read the stats at the top).

But nonetheless - their ability to get away with it is enhanced by the fans of the sports stars. Those who want to give the sports stars a permanent spot into the "in-group" of society and go along with the bashing of the victims. Those who hang on everything the defense attorney says as if it's the truth that tries to put the victims in some sort of "out-group" where they are not to be believed or trusted.

Those Stars in the "in-group" can do anything they want to the people in the "out-group" - in the same way that wars and other atrocities are justified against people "who are not like us".

In your posts - you are doing that. Trying to minimize the violent criminal acts of people who are given far too much "privilege" and are not held accountable for their actions.

It's not a coincidence that sports teams and fraternities are responsible for 22 of the 24 gang-rapes from the study.

[TimeChaser]

57. Now who's stereotyping?

"The geeks are good with numbers, and couldn't get any in highschool, so they're acting out their own fantasy, because they don't like women, because they were rejected, and had their sexual development arrested at 15."
:eyes:

[The2ndWheel]

61. That was the point

It's easy to do that.

[mwb970]

40. There is something different about sports people.

Meaning some (but a lot of) players and some (but a lot of) their fans. Of course we all know of the lager louts and hooligans that attend soccer/football matches across the pond. And we see the incredibly rude behavior of (some) drunken fans at American baseball and football games, screaming obscenities, throwing things (and sometimes themselves) onto the field, etc.

Here in Columbus, sports, especially OSU sports, especially OSU football, is THE THING. Entire news broadcasts are devoted to games that haven't even been played yet. Strangers start conversations with obscure remarks about third-string players or longago games. (I never have a clue what they are talking about.)

But the funny thing is, a surprisingly high percentage of OSU athletes seem to be criminals of various kinds. Over the years we have had numerous players convicted of everything from drugs and car theft to (recently) a street mugging in downtown Columbus! And yet people continue to idolize these "heroes".

The Duke story surprises me not a bit. But I don't get it, myself.

[Bill McBlueState]

56. a high percentage?

a surprisingly high percentage of OSU athletes seem to be criminals of various kinds

You mean of the football and basketball athletes. How many kids from the swim team have been in trouble with the law?

[donsu]

43. would steroid use have anything to do with it?

nt

[bloom]

48. While steroid use

can increase aggression - that doesn't explain the type of incident by high school students (and the accompanying attitudes) as described in Solly Mack's posts #21 & 35. I doubt they were (all/any?) on steroids.

And it doesn't account for those in society who give rapists (esp. athletes) a pass and want to keep the perpetrators from prosecution - or at least reasonable sentences.

It probably wouldn't hurt to study it though.

[bloom]

49. The difference in how 2 news outlets are reporting the story.

@ WRAL.com - a local TV station - are the ones with the stories like:

Attorney: Tempers Flared, But Exotic Dancer Wasn't Raped

NAACP Calls For Quick Investigation Into Duke Lacrosse Allegations

Alleged Rape Victim Had Past Brush With Law

Committee To Probe Duke Lacrosse Culture

DNA Results Could Shed New Light On Duke Lacrosse Investigation


While @ newsobserver.com (the local newspaper) there doesn't seem to be negative stories about the victim or stories that seemed designed to exonerate the rapists or suggest it didn't happen:

Manager: Scanty info delayed search

Durham's portrayal bugs council

Saunders: Durham is deeper than that

What is the obligation of someone not involved in a possible crime to tell what he or she knows?

15 players had prior charges

Frustrations boil at Duke

DNA tests ordered for Duke athletes

Dancer gives details of ordeal

[bobbieinok]

51. does this relate to what can happen after battles?? see Badajoz

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/11/28/wduke28.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/11/28/ixworld.html

Iron Duke memorial row opens old wounds
(Filed: 28/11/2003)

One of the British Army's blackest days is still rankling Spaniards, reports Isambard Wilkinson

....

The cause of the bad feeling in this remote hinterland of western Spain relates to the events of April 7, 1812, when soldiers embarked on one of the worst atrocities ever committed by the British Army.

After Wellington's men stormed the French positions at this strategic town they embarked on a barbaric orgy of rape, pillage and murder.

Their savagery contributed to the Iron Duke's later assessment that his soldiers were "the scum of the earth".

....

The day after the taking of Badajoz 10,000 British soldiers, maddened with drink, rampaged for 29 hours. Old men were shot, children bayoneted, women raped and churches looted. Most of the 5,000 of the town's 21,000 population who had not fled were killed or wounded.



Wellington lost 5,000 men in taking Badajoz and wept afterwards for the loss. They were cut down in 40 horrific sallies against grape shot, chevaux-de-frise ("Friesland Horses" - blade-studded beams fixed as a defences) and cannon. They were buried with the horses, amid the dirt at the foot of the town walls.


EDIT: COPYRIGHT....PLEASE POST ONLY FOUR PARAGRAPHS
FROM THE COPYRIGHTED NEWS SOURCE PER DU RULES.

[bloom]

54. yes - I think it is the same sort of thing

You have the same bonding going on among the men - and power trips.

And the military tries to diminish the rapes and assaults that are perpetrated on the women in the military (or the civilian population*) - just like the sports elites overlook the perpetrators on sports teams, etc.


* there was recently - last year? - a horrible gang rape by some American servicemen in Indonesia (?) that came to light only because the woman was from a fairly prominent family. Someone around here was trying to justify(?) it because the woman was somewhere he thought she should have known not to go - as if the servicemen thinking she was a prostitute would justify gang raping her in a van and throwing her in a ditch.

[bobbieinok]

60. also military uses sports metaphors, sports use military metaphors

[ecstatic]

52. they're so used to groupies

that they begin to feel as if every woman wants them.

[Samurai_Writer]

59. The guy who raped me was an athlete

A former pro football player. I wonder how many others here have been assaulted by athletes? I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[ismnotwasm]

64. Kick

I was going to nominate, but it's too late....

[bloom]

66. more stats, etc.

"According to research by Smith and Hattery, gang rapes at colleges break down this way: 55% involve fraternities, 40% involve men's teams, 5% involve others on campus. They presented their findings last week to a conference of The Drake Group, an organization of faculty and others that lobbies for academic integrity in college sports....

Smith says the sports most likely to have athletes involved are "ones with helmets and pads. For instance, you don't find cross country runners assaulting women on campus. You find this behavior among the violent sports where there's contact and an air of hyper-masculinity."

Smith says the culture of these sports often includes "locker-room talk that is misogynist."

...Smith says he teaches a course on violence and women each fall semester and he almost always gets a knock on his door from a woman in the class who has come to say, " 'Excuse me, can I talk to you about this?' And they go on to tell you about the same business — the rapes, the assaults, the coaches who tell them, 'Well, gee, you don't want to ruin this guy's career, do you?' "

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/lacrosse/2006-04-07-violence-allegations_x.htm?POE=SPOISVA