$13,700 an Hour

[AGENDA21]

The Nation -- Last Sunday, the New York Times reported that--for the first time--a full-time worker earning minimum wage cannot afford a one-bedroom apartment anywhere in America at market rates. That means more and more people like Michelle Kennedy--a former Senate page and author of Without a Net: Middle Class and Homeless (with Kids) in America--are finding themselves homeless and living out of their cars.

At a town hall meeting in Ohio last Saturday, Representative Sherrod Brown of Ohio, a staunch advocate for social and economic rights--he and Bernie Sanders are the two best candidates running for Senate in 2006--railed against stagnant wages' contribution to economic hardship. "It is unacceptable that someone can work full-time--and work hard--and not be able to lift their family out of poverty." He blasted a system where a full-time worker making the minimum wage earns $10,500 annually, while "last year the CEO of Wal-Mart earned $3,500 an hour. The CEO of Halliburton earned about $8,300 an hour. And the CEO of ExxonMobil earned about $13,700 an hour."

This past weekend Robert Kuttner argued in the Boston Globe that while people are blaming undocumented workers for driving down wages, the real villains are "the people running the government, who have made sure that the lions' share of the productivity gains go to the richest 1 percent of Americans. With different tax, labor, health, and housing policies, native-born workers and immigrants alike could get a fairer share of our productive economy."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20060407/cm_thenation/775273

[benburch]

1. Wow. A high end pornstar escort only draws about $1000 an hour.

I guess we know who the biggest whores are now, eh?

[wtmusic]

4. BB you must be getting the volume discount

:P

[benburch]

6. Actually, I'd get a few of them for free...

as we've been friends for years! But I'm monogamous and married these days! (And happy with it!)

[hopeisaplace]

2. This is truly shameful isn't it, absolutely shameful.

My goodness, do our children even have the slightest chance in this world...
the way it's going, who knows?

[corporate_mike]

54. Couric will get paid $60,000 per half-hour of on-camera work

CBS pays Couric the $15-million-a-year salary

[Wapsie B]

3. Redistribution of wealth my ass.

It's all funneling upwards to the 1% er's. Gee it looks like we're getting a bargain with that Halliburton guy. :eyes:

[DUHandle]

5. I like to tell people

when I'm buying gas, that I get 4 and an eight cents for every gallon.

[Warpy]

7. The NYT is slow, as usual, because that statistic was reported

over three years ago in the Harper's Index. It certainly hasn't improved since then.

Any Democrat who doesn't campaign on wages is a fool.

It's the one wedge issue the Republicans are defenseless against.

[dcfirefighter]

20. Most people understand that you can't legislate wages

Try it. See what happens.

You have to take a few steps back and legislate for employment. The higher the employment, the more employers must pay to attract and retain workers.

You increase employment by systematically removing every tax (or drag, friction, what have you) direct or indirect, from employment and working.

1) payroll tax: 15.3% both sides.
2) Federal Income tax against wages (vs. other income): up to 35% (not likely from wages at that rate, but 28% is very likely against wages)
3) State income taxes against wages: up to 11%
4) retail sales taxes of any sort
5) property taxes on labor produced property (vs. unimproved property)
6) corporate taxes against income derived from employing people or labor-made property (vs. owning a monopolistic right)

Progressives often close their ears when people speak of reducing taxes for corporations, or reducing income taxes, and chant "Steeply Progressive Income Tax", "Tax Corporations Like People" and other one-liners. A bit of understanding is required to determine which corporate taxes get passed on to the worker, which ones get passed on to the consumer, and which ones get passed on to the owner(s). I suggest making sure that we eliminate the ones that get passed on to the worker.

If we total all these hidden taxes on labor, we see that employers must pay as much as 50% over what employees take home. If we eliminate that tax wedge, a portion of the wedge will go to increasing wages and employment; another portion will go to reducing employer's costs - meaning lower prices, and therefore more sales. Determining which goes where depends on the relative elasicity of labor vs. the goods they provide, but direction is unequivocably clear.

Even localities can enact this sort of legislation to benefit employment, small steps count.

[jwirr]

25. That is a good point but it will not be something th e*ss do.

Their tax cuts have fueled more international investment rather than jump starting our own economy.

[Warpy]

29. The only problem with what you learned in Econ 101 is that

it's exactly wrong.

Employers always scream bloody murder about every increase in the minimum wage. Then their business increases to offset it and we don't hear anything out of them until minimum wage hikes are proposed again.

What you need to realize is that nobody ever hired a worker he didn't have a customer waiting for. The money pump works from the bottom up, not from the top down. We're drowning in capital right now. What we're lacking is DEMAND that isn't fueled by unsecured credit card debt or ruinous refinancing of real estate.

I sincerely doubt that any of us who read economic history rather than the rarefied gobbledegook in economics survey courses designed by the rich to benefit the rich will convince anyone who has concentrated on the latter. However, the lessons are about to be taught yet again, and I do hope you're going to be ready with something besides a mouthful of jargon and erroneous theories.

(by the way, OASDI is an INSURANCE PREMIUM. It's only been stolen and used as a tax since Johnson wanted to hide the cost of Vietnam. Reagan made it profitable by hiking it 6 times. Please learn the difference between insurance premiums and taxes)

[dcfirefighter]

63. read it. Don't make ad hominem attacks

I don't doubt the 'money pump' works from the bottom up IF the bottom has spending cash.

Unfortunately, even if the bottom has cash, the owners of land merely and naturally increase their prices - rents go up, more is spent on real estate, etc.

I'll even allow for the fact that, when a mininum wage is increased it usually improves things, BUT, the minimum wage trails prevailing wages, and only affects a small percentage of jobs. It is impossible to legilate a minimum wage of say, $20/hr.

We're drowning in capital? As I see it we need 30,000 MW of renewable energy sources. We need rebuilt railways. We need new houses, schools, hospitals. We need transit. We need fossil-free food production. We need water treatment plants. We need MORE CAPITAL.

Which is my mouthful of jargon and erroneous theories? I'll debate them, but I won't argue them. I'm no supporter of the Chicago School.

I know the difference between insurance premiums and taxes. As you stated OASDI is a tax. So we agree. What then? Shall I tell you that it raises the price of labor, and so reduces employment? With labor unemployed, it's hard to demand a good wage. Try for full employment - you'll have more success than by fixing the price of labor above some arbitrary minimum.

[KansDem]

8. $13,700 an hour?" Wow! I'd only have to work an hour a day!

Where do I sign up?

:sarcasm:

[iconoclastNYC]

To be middle income you'd only need to work 3 hours a year!

[benburch]

12. Which is more than some of these guys actually do work.

Sad, huh?

[iconoclastNYC]

14. Well to be fair.

CEOs do work long long hours. But they shouldn't be making millions. Nobody's time is worth that much.

[benburch]

17. I've known some who simply did NOTHING.

They delegated everything and were on permanent vacation.

Yes, the companies did poorly. They didn't care. Their golden parachute was so large that the board was reluctant to show them the door.

[smirkymonkey]

36. Exactly - It seems as though the more they get paid the less they

actually do. Sure they spend a lot of time on the phone and in meetings, but at almost every corporation that I have worked at, I am amazed by the amount of sitting around and bullshitting gets done at the highest levels. Meanwhile, those of us making a fraction of thier salaries get all THEIR work done for them.

It's disgusting, and what's even more disgusting is that we put up with it.

[benburch]

11. I'm Chief Information Officer of a Liberal Radio Network...

and my pay at the moment is exactly zero!

I'll let you know when it gets to even the minimum wage! Hopefully later this year.

http://www.headonradionetwork.com

[Canuckistanian]

15. How "uniquely American"!

Now if only we could find free housing and food.

[benburch]

18. Heck, I'd even take some of that Reagan Cheese.

And that government price support peanut butter!

[sinkingfeeling]

9. I'll argue that the people driving down American wages are at the top

of ladder, not the bottom.

[monarch]

10. OK now. Was the first time that Yahoo reported vanden heuval

just the one time this March? In my search (Yahoo does do its searches on Google, by the way, so I know that I spelled it correctly--just in case I spelled it wrong here). She turns up one time in an article written by another Nation staffer and one time in an article in that she co-wrote in March. Does anyone know of any other times?
Edit: punctuation

[rman]

13. and they call it "trickle down"

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. Which translated means pissing on us. nt

[Deja Q]

62. Ah. You mean what they truly call it, "trickle on".

[iconoclastNYC]

24. No child should be raised in poverty.

We need to arrest the cycle of poverty in this country.

Most Republicans think poor people are all lazy.

The families end up in the poor house from illness or death.... oh that's just a liberal myth.

[jwirr]

27. Or that they work all their life and still end up with nothing.

[ProfessorGAC]

16. Boy, I Like Kuttner

I met him once, about 15 years ago or so. Sharp as a razor. Good solid writer, too. He's on the beam in his analysis.
The Professor

[5X]

19. The only trickle in trickle down economics is coming from...

the leaker in chief.

[MrPrax]

21. Dear Mr. McCain,

With all do regret, I can not accept your job offer of $50(US)/hr. to pick produce as I have been offered other employment opportunities in the energy and petroleum industry.

Good luck on your staffing efforts and I wish you much success.

With Respect,
MrPrax

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

57. LOL!!!! Thank you for the laugh!

[BrklynLiberal]

23. THIS is what the GOP is trying hide by stoking the "illegal immigrant"

issue. The only reason they can use this as a wedge issue now is because of the economic downturn they have created for the Middle class and the Working Class in this country!!!

while people are blaming undocumented workers for driving down wages, the real villains are "the people running the government, who have made sure that the lions' share of the productivity gains go to the richest 1 percent of Americans.

[CornField]

26. I need to keep this information on a slip of paper that I can hand out...

to the folks who want to bitch about union wages destroying corporations.

[rman]

28. That's a ratio of roughly 1 : 2500

between minimum wage and maximum wage.


And that's just wages. Looking at capital, the difference is even more extreme.
The ratio between minimum capital and maximum capital ranges up to infinity, given that minimum capital is (near) zero or even negative (debt). Doesn't mean that maximum capital is infinite, though it comes pretty close. Didn't Forbes Magazine recently have an article on Cheney being the first Trillionaire ever? And the number of multi-billionaires has about doubled over the past decade or so (about 600 now, globally).

People who get $13,700 an hour don't even have to work at all to be able to live in luxury for the rest of their lives.

Obviously THEIR economy is doing just fine.

[ThomCat]

30. It is sick when one man makes more in an hour

than someone else can make in an entire year.

That's disgusting. Anyone who thinks they earn that kind of inflated salary is delusional. They're getting paid what they can steal, not what they're worth.

[Boojatta]

31. Is it sick when Stephen King makes money?

Whose money is being stolen by Stephen King?

[ThomCat]

33. Everyone who pays inflated prices for his books.

[Boojatta]

40. Could you define "steal" and "inflated prices"? e.o.m.

[ThomCat]

46. You're fishing for stuff to attack or critisize.

Let's just say that it is my opinion that there is no justification for anyone to collect vast wealth.

If you disagree, that's fine. You're welcome to your opinion. But I won't argue the point with someone who's clearly looking to be argumentative.

[Boojatta]

61. Here is the dialogue:

Boojatta: Whose money is being stolen by Stephen King?

ThomCat: Everyone who pays inflated prices for his books.

Boojatta: Could you define "steal" and "inflated prices"?

ThomCat: You're fishing for stuff to attack or criticize. ... clearly looking to be argumentative.

Compare that to the following dialogue:

Boojatta: Whose shoes will be repaired today by Shoemaker Joe?

ThomCat: Everyone who brings in shoes before 2 P.M., unless there is too much to be done.

Boojatta: Could you define "repair" and "too much to be done?

ThomCat: Yes, to repair shoes is to come close to restoring them to the way they were when they were new. It's an alternative to buying new shoes. By "too much to be done", I meant "more repair work than Shoemaker Joe can complete by the end of his work day."

[ThomCat]

64. Non Sequitur

Your comparison is pointless. I have no idea what you're trying to prove, but you're failing. You're only succeeding in being inane and annoying.

Welcome to my ignore list.

[Boojatta]

67. Regarding the concept Non Sequitur...

Educational reading

[eridani]

47. Stephen King makes money off of his own labor

Not the labor of minimum wage peons and third world slaves.

[Boojatta]

56. If a minimum wage peon buys a new (as opposed to used) copy of a book

written by Stephen King, then is Stephen King making money from the labor of a minimum wage peon?

Is your concern that minimum wage is too low or that there is but should not be an economic incentive to employ people at minimum wage?

[eridani]

66. No--his labor was writing the book.

The people who make money from minimum wage labor are their employers. Obviously, the minumum wage is too low.

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. Meanwhile there are 45+ million without health insurance and 37+ million

homeless and what are the statics for working families living at or below the poverty line? These cretins are reprehensible! How dare they, while outsourcing good paying jobs that Americans hold, continue to draw these obscene salaries! It's sickening!

[YOY]

34. Would these people be missed...if they happened to dissapear

Just curious.

[smirkymonkey]

37. Where's the Baader-Meinhof when you need them?

Kidding, Mods - just a joke, heh heh :silly:

[rman]

51. Baader-Meinhof was an CIA false-flag ops front

If anything it helped create the notion that the far left is militant/terrorist in nature.
Throw in a good measure of guilt-by-association, and it helps to discredit the entire left-wing.
Who benefits from that?

Google: "Operation Gladio" baader-meinhof

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/PHA311A.html
Operation "Stay Behind"; Operation "Gladio" As part of a larger US ... they launched bogus left-wing terror outfits (the "Baader-Meinhof Gang") or framed ...

[smirkymonkey]

53. Interesting, I suppose that expains why the rich puppetmasters

never end up being victims of terror. Still, it doesn't mean that at some point it won't happen - you can only push a majority of humanity so far before they have no choice but to resist and revolt.

If more people realized just what pawns we all are in the games of the rich and powerful they would be rightly outraged and most likely prompted to take action. Unfortunately, most people dismiss such information as "wild-eyed conspiracy" and continue to "consume" themselves into apathy and oblivion. I sometimes despair that right and truth will never prevail.

[undergroundpanther]

42. No

I won't miss these wealth hoarding thugs and their corruption of society, and I certainly won't miss their habitual shredding of the social safety net and manipulation of the masses. In fact I might find myself a bit happy knowing these suited thugs are gone and will be unable to exploit no more.
Fuck the rich who think 13700 an hour is a reasonable wage while people suffer...FUCK all CEO thugs. FUCK the sick unfair,inhumane culture they create to excuse their own greed and abuse of power, trust, deprivation and desperation.
Eat the rich before they destroy civilization through debt and wage slavery..Cap the capital of these greedy capitalists before they get some hired mercenary thug to put a cap in our ass..for daring to say we are human beings and we need solidarity to get protection from predatory Ceo thugs.

[YOY]

43. but, but, but they EARN IT (RW Rushbot rhetoric)!

If someone is earning $13,700 an hour they better damn well be saving the world from inevitable destruction...oh wait, people would volunteer for that...

[rman]

52. They would be replaced

Their disappearance would be but a minor inconvenience to the powers that be.

[whopis01]

35. kick n/t

[nonconformist]

38. K & R. Disgusting. nt

[JNelson6563]

39. Incredible.

There are no words....

[undergroundpanther]

41. Eat the rich

Because if we don't they will exploit us to death.

Fuck these rich people,they should not get away with this.
When will THEY pay? When will their gated communities and money STOP protecting them from the abuse of others they get away with right now?

The CeO is a parasite,preying upon the earth to fatten itself.It takes a sociopath to be a CEO. We need to stop rewarding bullies. We need to make it painful ,personally through wealth confiscation or PROGRESSIVE taxes for a Ceo who was born into wealth to exploit people this way.

For evil like this obscene wage inequality to happen, remember that evil always begins at the top,in the place of power,popularity or wealth. Evil people seek power to exploit the powerless..Corruption gets worse when the elites get away with an abuse of power..They all begin exploitation in small ways,than emboldened they will get more and more corrupt and pushing the limits of their uncontrollable greed until civilization goes past the breaking point. Then the wealthy pigs hide in 'undisclosed' locations while the confused,disenfranchised,hopeless,powerless, frustrated masses go out and kill each other for want of food or shelter or respect.The wealthy exploitation must be stopped as soon as it begins,everyman must be a leash upon the wealthy and exploitative and capital must be capped if we the 99% of not wealthy people really want a functioning civilization and a real democracy . WE must eat the rich ,destroy the sociopath for our civilization's sanity sake. If a bloody revolution is not appealing,than stop the Ceo from causing one through his greed.

[Blue_Tires]

44. lol...that's nothing

once upon a time i crunched the numbers, and in his heyday Mike Tyson was averaging $50,000 per SECOND in the ring....i know that's a different situation, but still...

[lovuian]

45. This is WRONG!!! Workers need a decent wage...

A CEO doesn't make the product and yet they get millions to run a company in bankruptcy...

I'm sorry we need to get more Socialistic and start taking care of the MANY instead of the few...

[sundancekid]

48. good for Brown - these are the kinds of examples that sear the mind!

[lonestarnot]

49. I say park them all at the Whitehouse!

[theHandpuppet]

50. Those of you who haven't read this book -- PICK IT UP!

"Nickel and Dimed in America"

http://www.mpr.org/books/titles/ehrenreich_nickelanddimed.shtml

[in_cog_ni_to]

58. Isn't that the book by the reporter who worked low wage jobs

to see what it was like? I think I've seen her interviewed. The book sounded fasinating...if that's the one you're talking about.;)

[Nightflurry]

55. More than I make a year n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

59. I wonder,

How much money is enough for the wealthy? $13,700 an hour is OBSCENE.

[Agony]

60. All because

those damn communists gave socialism a bad name!

[Roland99]

65. Just like the early 1900s prior to the Great Depression.

Modern-day robber barons are raping and destroying this great nation.