Flame away but I like Joe Biden

[proud2BlibKansan]

I am watching TIVO of Bill Maher now and I agree with everything he is saying.

Bottom line is he is 1000% better than any Republican who wants to run in 2008.

[Cooley Hurd]

1. I don't hate Joe...

...in fact I'm related to him by marriage (in a very convoluted way).

However, he should've told the robberbarons in his state (i.e. the credit card companies) to shove the bankruptcy bill up their collective tookus...

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Yeah that credit card deal was bad

[BlueEyedSon]

19. Just another corporate whore. We need to get money out of politics

Published on Thursday, April 6, 2006 by the Washington Spectator
A Culture of Corruption
Let's Save Our Democracy by Getting Money Out of Politics
by Bill Moyers


Money is choking our democracy to death. Our elections are bought out from under us and our public officials are doing the bidding of mercenaries. So powerful is the hold of wealth on politics that we cannot say America is working for all Americans. The majority may support such broad social goals as affordable medical coverage for all, decent wages for working people, safe working conditions, a secure retirement, and clean air and water, but there is no government "of, by, and for the people" to deliver on those aspirations.

Our system of privately financed campaigns has shut regular people out of any meaningful participation in democracy. Less than one-half of one percent of all Americans made a political contribution of $200 or more to a federal candidate in 2004. When the average cost of winning a seat in the House of Representatives has topped $1 million, we can no longer refer to that chamber as "The People's House." Congress belongs to the highest bidder.

At the same time that the cost of getting elected is exploding beyond the reach of ordinary people, the business of influencing our elected representatives has become a growth industry. Since President Bush was elected the number of registered lobbyists in Washington has more than doubled. That's 16,342 lobbyists in 2000 and 34,785 last year: 65 lobbyists for every member of Congress. The total spent per month by special interests wining, dining, and seducing federal officials is now nearly $200 million. Per month.


http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0406-29.htm

[Lindsay]

2. The problem with Biden, IMO, is that

there is a huge gulf between what he says and what he does. He's a compelling speaker, but you've also got to look at his voting record.

That said, he's still better than a Repug. With that I'll agree. But I'd be much happier with somebody who's not permanently in bed with the Corporations.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Tough call

but bottom line - he's a Dem and is a much better alternative than McCain.

[BOSSHOG]

3. No flames here

Sometimes we may forget that a democrat in the white house will be followed by a team of democrats, appointed and otherwise to DC. The ignorant, criminal trash which is today's republican party must go. Biden is not my first choice but if he is the democratic nominee he will receive my unwavering support and a few bucks to boot. I would appreciate him giving General Clark a nice seat at the table; say State or Defense.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. That's a great point

Clinton's cabinet was so much better than the idiots el pretzeldente has appointed.

[saltpoint]

30. Gotta say it out loud, Bosshog -- your dismissive use of the phrase

"ignorant, criminal trash which is today's republican party" --

is ENTIRELY ok with me.

Bull's eye.



:thumbsup: :hi:

[BOSSHOG]

33. Mark Twain said

"always tell the truth and you'll never have to remember anything." While I choose to tell the truth about the grand old party, they and their followers waller in disinformation and lies and have to spend a whole bunch of time remembering shit.

[saltpoint]

37. Yep. Think how impossible Scott McClellan's job really is! : )

(Twain's right, you're right, and let's have a big blue wave in November.)

[BOSSHOG]

41. If mcclellan had an ounce (or less) of integrity

he would have resigned along time ago. The republican party is nothing but a bunch of immoral scum spending time patting each other on the back and blaming everybody but themselves for anything right or wrong. I can deal with their policies, I can't deal with their methodology of operations. I look forward to doing a big old blue wave from down here in Red mississippi come November.

[saltpoint]

68. Sounds good. I'm in. The bluer the better.

[rockymountaindem]

65. I just want to take this opportunity to say

you're one of my favorite DUers. :toast:

[BOSSHOG]

70. Thanks very much

that is very kind of you to say. I don't think I'm the favorite of many. Cheers to you!

[stray cat]

4. I generally like Joe as well

I don't agree with some of his voting stances but he is a smart articulate guy who I think would lead the country well.

[cynatnite]

5. I like Biden, too...

now, if he weren't in bed with corporate, it'd be that much better.

I must say, I have developed a huge crush on Ben Afleck after watching Maher.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Oh I had a crush on Ben Afleck long before this

Wouldn't it be nice to see him go into politics?

[magnolia]

25. I loved his retaliation to the...

..."Strategery" guy's claim that Delay is the democrats poster boy. Affleck said, "....Delay is a criminal, (yada, yada, yada) and you are blamely democrats for pointing it out!"

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

6. No flames, just facts, and your right to your opinion:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/bankruptcy/archives/2005/03/index.php

March 2005

Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE)
1991-1996 contributions from commercial banks: $73,575
1997-2002 contributions from commercial banks: $33,675

March 08, 2005: So the bankruptcy bill moves forward, speeding toward inevitable passage in the Senate and the House. That’s good news for credit card companies, particularly those that are loading their cards up with surprise interest rate jumps and a dozen other tricks and traps. Good news for payday lenders, for banks raking in profits on overdraft accounts, and for car lenders that focus on no-credit-check lending. Good news for all of those who squeeze the American family when someone loses a job, gets sick, or otherwise falls behind in a tough economy.

But there is good news on other fronts too. This bankruptcy bill was largely written by a credit industry lobbyist and, as he put it, shopped to a friendly Congressman. From the outset, the bill was supposed to be an easy push, “assured of passage,” something that would stay below the radar screen. But you changed all that.

And that is good news. This isn’t the first time that special interests have gone to Congress with a complex, hard-to-understand bill that would profit them while it increased costs or risks for all the rest of us. But you pushed up the cost. You made it obvious that Joe Biden isn’t there for working families. You highlighted the fact that Dick Durbin fought like a tiger for military families. You exposed how Tom Carper cares more about credit card companies than families. You cheered when Russ Feingold, Patrick Leahy and Mark Dayton tried to make things better. You watched Senator Feinstein speak with courage. You highlighted how Ted Kennedy, once again, forced a tough fight that others wanted to duck.

March 08, 2005: Speaking of which, the Credit Card Corps certainly earned their money today: Senators Tom Carper (D-Delaware), Joe Biden (D-Delaware), Ben Nelson (D-Nebraska) and Tim Johnson (D-South Dakota) all voted for cloture. Long-time fence-sitters Senators Mary Landrieu (D-Louisiana) and Blanche Lincoln (D-Arkansas) also got in the act, as did someone we thought was a Consumer Champion: Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL).

---SNIP---

Bankruptcy is not a sexy issue. Supporters of the bill can utter a few paeans to personal responsibility, maybe even refer to filers as "deadbeats." In the end, officials have been able to support these sorts of lobbyist bills without consequences because they believe people just aren’t paying attention. Thus, Joe Biden can continue to entertain his champagne wishes and White House caviar dreams while supporting a bill that is a clear giveaway to credit card companies. Others, like Tom Carper, Mary Landrieu and Ben Nelson can sate key contributors and avoid a headache at minimal political cost.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Compare that to going to war with Iraq

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

42. Apples and Oranges, but here's another one:

Condi Rice's confirmation hearings...Joe's "I want you to know that I'm going to vote for you, but first I'm going to admonish you" little "intricate kabuki dance."

Sorry..I don't like the man, I don't respect the man, but...as I've already said, I DO respect YOUR right to your opinion.

:patriot:

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. I am not trying to argue apples and oranges

I just find Biden's sins more tolerable than bush's.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

47. I'm looking for a candidate whose sins...

...aren't clearly visible on his sleeve. I'm assuming that you have had first-hand experience with bankruptcy under the new laws that Biden voted for and you found the experience to be "tolerable." If not, my sincere wish is that you never find yourself in a position in which you have to find out. I'm not trying to be a smartass here, I'm just handing your own statement back to you for consideration. You said...and I quote you..."I just find Biden's sins more tolerable than bush's."

So what sins are you talking about? What sins have directly impacted you in your life, or are you saying that if someone else is affected, you can deal with that? You're making a big statement and there's no detail to back it up.

He signed off on a bill that will ultimately screw over a lot of people. My opinion. Unapologetically my opinion, not looking for agreement, not attempting to fan the flames. I'm just trying to understand the sins you're referring to and then understand how you have managed to tolerate them. Your statement, not my attempt to flame you.

I understand...somewhat...the point you're making, and for the third time, I respect your right to your opinion, and I equally respect MY right to MY opinion, which is that even on the outside chance that the man is elected in 2008 or beyond, Joe Biden will never be "my" president.

If you admire and respect the man and want him for your president, I wish you success. Give your time and money and work for his election and if / when he gets the job, you will be able to consider yourself directly responsible for whatever his term in office produces.

:patriot:

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. I am just trying to find a way to support a Dem who would not be my first

choice. The bankruptcy law really bothers me. But as a lifelong pacifist, the war in Iraq is a LOT larger problem for me. I would love to decide I am not willing to support anyone who voted to go to war with Iraq. But that is not practical. As much as I love Feingold and want him to be the nominee, I find myself shopping around and looking at the other likely front runners. The only thing I know for sure is I won't vote for a repuke.

[Mass]

7. The problem with Biden is that he is too often on TV.

So we get to see the good days like that and the bad days where he is a pompous ass.

But he is certainly 1000% better than any Republican who wants to run in 2008, I agree.

[Warpy]

8. Biden talks a good fight and the unions support him

but he caves to the GOP agenda just a little too often to suit me.

Get him out of DC for a few years and put him into the role of state governor, and we'll see what he turns into. He's in my "got potential" category, but I can't support him as long as he's within that DLC/GOP bubble.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. yes that sounds like a good idea.

[Vinnie From Indy]

9. Hate is a silly word - Biden is one of BushCo's Favorite Dems!

I do think he is infinitely more concerned with getting TV air time than he is being a Democratic Senator. He is consistently one of the FIRST picks of the BushCo media propaganda outlets on cable and THAT IS NOT BY ACCIDENT! They know Joe is the PERFECT interview subject because he can be counted on to ALWAYS skirt around the issues dangerous to Bush. As proof of this, I ask you why Feingold, Boxer and others are RARELY asked to participate on televised discussions. I have no doubt that Biden has probably appeared on television over the last two years more than all the other Democratic senators COMBINED! That is a damning indictment! The media is working AS A GROUP to cover for Bush and it is NOT an accident that Biden is always chosen as the Dem spokesperson.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. He's also more moderate than Feingold or Boxer

[Vinnie From Indy]

39. LOL!

I guess then that folks like Gingrich, DeLay, Cornyn, Frist, Roberts, Coburn, Hatch are just a few of the "moderate" GOP voices that are chosen every week to be interviewed by the media. God help us all if there are more "extreme" voices on the right. That doesn't even include the voices of Coulter, Hannity, Scarborough, Tweety, Buchanon and the army of right wing warriors that litter the airwaves. No, Joe is CHOSEN repeatedly for a reason. I have seen Joe on a few occasions act like a real Democratic Senator, but not nearly enough. I, personally, am looking for a Democrat to go right at the media for lying for BushCo. Our guys have to start bringing the fight directly to the media. For me, it seems Biden's desire to be on TV is greater than his desire to fight in these most perilous of times. TV exposure is like a drug to Joe and he will never bite the hand of the pushers that give him what he wants so badly.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. I would like to see that too

But with the great division in this country, I think the Dem with the best chance of success in 2008 will be a moderate. But I could be wrong. We'll have to see what happens.

[Vinnie From Indy]

52. I believe you are right about that!

Even though I rag on Joe, I would take him in a micro-second over any GOP candidate!

[tyedyeto]

10. I lost respect for him during the Kindasleeza confirmation hearings

When he said during the committee phase (paraphrasing) "I think you haven't been telling us the truth but I'm going to vote yes anyway."

[seabeyond]

13. i dont have huge issues with biden either. still want kerry 2008 n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Biden is not my first choice either

But it always seems to be a lesser of two evils choice. Biden is so much better than anyone the repukes are talking about running.

[seabeyond]

43. i dont even look at it lesser of two.... i see dems stocked with lots

of kick ass smart mature adult like people that i would welcome as our president any day of the week, wonk

[creeksneakers2]

15. 4,176 talk show appearances

without a major gaffe. I have to admire that.

[NNN0LHI]

16. Good old Joe "the window is closing" Biden

No flames but Joe needs a new set of talking points or increase his vocabulary or something.

Don

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ned=tus&q=Joe+Biden%2Bwindow+closing&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web

Results 1 - 10 of about 237,000 for Joe Biden+window closing. (0.07 seconds)

CNN.com - Sen. Joe Biden: 'Tell the American people the truth ...Joe Biden, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, ... before our committee and said there is a very narrow window that's closing. ...
www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/30/cnna.irq.biden/ - 48k - Cached - Similar pages


Opening Statement Iraq Reconstruction Hearing Senator Joseph R ...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Senator Joseph R. Biden, Jr. July 29, 2003. Last week the Committee heard from several ... address the situation on the ground before the window closes. ...
www.senate.gov/~foreign/testimony/ 2003/BidenStatement030729.pdf - Similar pages


Pirate this, go to jail | Perspectives | CNET News.comThat prompted Biden to convene a hearing where he denounced copyright thievery in stentorian tones. "Windows XP was available for illegal use on the streets ...
news.com.com/2010-1071-946732.html - 50k - Apr 6, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages


AMERICAblog: Because a great nation deserves the truthHow does Joe Biden get booked so often? And, will Russert actually ask ... is another close friend and has one of the sharpest political minds out there. ...
americablog.blogspot.com/ - Similar pages


The Left Coaster: Real MoneyWho woke up Joe Biden? The committee's ranking Democrat, Senator Joseph R. Biden of Delaware, was far more outspoken. "The window's closing, the window of ...
www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/002676.php - 16k - Cached - Similar pages


In the Pink Texas » Thanks for Stopping BidenJoe Biden. And by “attending,” I mean “finding an open window and sneaking ... Best quote:(I’m close but may not be 100% accurate) “We should have a foriegn ...
www.inthepinktexas.com/index.php?p=1020 - 20k - Apr 7, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages


A Conversation with Joseph R. Biden - Council on Foreign RelationsI think Senator Joe Biden of Delaware needs no introduction to this, ... and the weather window is closing, as opposed to the tolerance window for our ...
www.cfr.org/publication/4126/ conversation_with_joseph_r_biden.html - 77k - Apr 7, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages


Hugh Hewitt: January 08, 2006 - January 14, 2006 ArchivesWe are bloggers with boatloads of opinions, and none of us come close to agreeing with any ... Joe Biden at Princeton: Sexism and Homophobia Together Again. ...
hughhewitt.com/archives/2006/01/08-week/index.php - 137k - Apr 7, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages


CIA Analysis Holds Bleak Vision for Iraq's FutureJoseph Biden Jr. of Delaware, was far more outspoken. "The window's closing, the window of opportunity," said Biden, among the harshest critics of Bush's ...
www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0916-02.htm - 19k - Cached - Similar pages


Online NewsHour: Iraq Self-Rule -- November 13, 2003And really beyond that, there was not, as Joe Biden has said, ... They told us in our committee that the window of opportunity is closing very rapidly, ...
www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/ july-dec03/iraq_11-13.html - 42k - Cached - Similar pages


Try your search again on Google Book Search

[saltpoint]

20. While I'm not hogwild about some of Joe's positions in recent times,

over a long stretch he has been exactly as you say -- a great deal better than anybody the GOP can throw at us in 08.

There's also a real likability to him, never more so than when he was scolding the Foreign Relations Committee about why they should reject a hair-on-the-tongue lunatic like John Bolton.

Had we gotten Kerry-Edwards and not Bush-Cheney, Joe Biden would also have made a sound choice for Sec. of State, unlike a certain exStanford Brahms-and-Russia specialist.

I think another Democrat will head the ticket in 08 but if it turns out it's Biden, my vote's still blue.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Same here

I haven't voted for a repuke for prez yet and I don't plan to anytime in my lifetime.

[saltpoint]

40. Yes. Why they're standing around letting BushCo gut their party

was astonishing at first. Now it's just repulsive. Every once in a while you get a glimmer of integrity out of Chuck Hagel, but it doesn't go very far because the stalwarts like Lugar and Warner are out to lunch.

If there was ever a political party in need of a makeover, the modern-day GOP is it.

[FredScuttle]

21. The most dangerous place in the world

is between Joe Biden and a camera.

[Beelzebud]

23. He just couldn't keep himself from slamming Kerry's Op Ed piece.

Other than that, he was pretty good.

When Dems go on TV, they really need to stop eating their own...

[magnolia]

36. Yeah...me too...

...why oh why do they have to criticise each other!

The fact that Kerry came up with a plan is absolutely brilliant. The democrats should have done that as a group much sooner. The beauty of the demcratic plan is that it will never be used...therefore, it can't fail. They can forever call it a perfect plan since no one can prove it otherwise.

I thought Mahers remark was smart (if politically incorrect) when he said the Middle Easterners need to haggle.

[dogday]

27. Biden Likes Biden

I like him ok, but he likes himself alot... He can go on and on about things at times...

[blondeatlast]

38. As Bill Maher pointed out . yes, Biden's known to talk a lot, BUT

sometimes it takes more than a 30 seciond soundbite to explain an issue. Biden was very clear speaking and didn't talk in sb's last night.

He was more than willing to back off and let everyone else have a say.

He let Maher lead the show (as he's supposed to, but frequently has guests on that just take over).

He even let the Bill Sammon have his say--before he deconstructed Sammon's talking points very nicely.

[opihimoimoi]

54. I also saw the show and thought...here was a guy who can talk clearly and

intelligently, had his thought well org'd....he can be President...

[walkon]

28. I found myself reminded

of the Domino theory when he discussed Iraq. The justification of war is fear and the justification for continuation is fear. Domino theory says "x" will happen if we don't attack and more of "x" will happen if we don't continue. If we had never gone to war in Iraq how much better off would we be today? True reason for war is greed and power. Pull out now.

[mdmc]

31. well I like Joementum!

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. LOL

Sure you do.

[mdmc]

53. Joementum is better then any gop that runs in 2008

:shrug::hi::)

[Neil Lisst]

34. I had Joe Biden in the presidential race early once. ONCE!

Then he got video-taped being a jackass to some voter, acting like he was all that. He got caught claiming he graduated in the top half of his class at Syracuse, when he didn't. That led me to harassing unmercifully a friend who graduated from there, where, as I now say "everyone graduates in the top half!"

I don't count Joe out. He's OK on TV, OK on his feet. But he's got to lose that LBJ 1971 hairdo. Trim it in the back, Biden!

I could live with him on the ticket, although he wouldn't be my first choice.

[niallmac]

35. How do you back flush a democracy that is controlled by money?

Biden, Hillary whoever. Why doesn't our system allow people from hometown America a chance to be heard and
considered? How could it ever when our present policy makers Republican and Democrat are on the
money life support machine?
It is the achilles heel of capitalism this Disney form of politics we have. You don't have to ask why Biden
supported the big banks or who stole the spines of the Democrats.
I choose to focus on the corporate personhood laws as public enemy number one.
The ultimate center of teeth gnashing power should be: 'The people; Their representatives.
Not: The Corporations period.
Maybe it would be enlightening to hear Biden or Hilary or anyone speak without their chief concern being not to offend
corporate America but to do the right thing for the people of the U.S.
The corps don't give a damn about the working American anymore.
They have moved overseas.

[THUNDER HANDS]

46. he's slimey

in a used-car salesman sort of way.

[Vinnie From Indy]

48. We only disagree about degrees!

I think he is only 999% better! :)

[ShortnFiery]

50. I'll pass on this one for this message board ain't got the bandwidth n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. Pandering politician is an understatement for Biden.

The mouth that never closes not only will say anything, he does say anything. If Joe were somehow to get the nomination I'd be looking elsewhere.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. So would you vote for a repuke then?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. I'll be voting for the candidate that best represents my beliefs.

That eliminates Republicans and Joe Biden.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. Then why even vote?

It's too bad we don't have a stronger third party in this country. But I want my vote to count. Nader had such a huge negative effect on the vote in both 2000 and 2004. And would Clinton have been elected without Perot?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. Make them work for your vote.

As long as they can count on it, like Biden, they'll continue to sell out and pander to the right. If they think they have to move to the left to get your vote, they will.

Politicians don't lead, they follow.

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. Oh that makes sense

Thanks. I feel silly that I hadn't thought of that.

Man I love DU. I learn something useful every day. :hi:

[Marlie]

59. Biden has been in the Senate for 36 years.

Notice when they were talking about how everyone is backing out of lobby reform,
not a word from Joe. Minimum wage at $5.15 an hour since I think, 1997, Joe, not
a word. I'm still very upset about the bankruptcy bill since so many people
suffering from medical expenses, not just free wheel spending, will be ruined for life. Biden is OK on foreign policy, but he's bought and paid for by Corporate America. He's better than a Republican, I guess.

He has always been a Bush enabler. He gives it to Cheney, Rumsfield, etc. but
rarely takes Bush on directly. I think he was one democrat who actually did
support invading Iraq.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

63. Yep. Another "not as bad" candidate to give us the illusion of democracy.

When, in actuality, we live in an oligarchy of the rich and powerful who control the elections with money and influence.

[fujiyama]

58. Biden talks a good talk

but backs down too often in the end.

Compared to any repuke, I'll vote for him in the very unlikely chance he's the nominee. Otherwise, I don't see myself voting for him in the primaries.

[salin]

60. I think we can, and will, do much better in the Primaries.

like you, in the end I would vote for him in Nov if he was the choice, but I think he will go the way of Gephart's campaign - not very far with not very much energy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. I probably won't support him in the primaries either

[AtomicKitten]

64. I know I used to like him.

And I also know his appearance on Real Time was a campaign stop.

Somewhere in between he lost me. I can say without hesitation that I will vote for him if he makes it to the general election.

But the distaste in my mouth for what has gone done the last six years makes me yearn for someone outside this mess.

[Rex]

67. Don't short change em, he's 10,000% better than any R.

I'd even go 100k better, so that puts Repukes right up their with diseased vermin and brown mold (which rate the same as Bush, Frist, Cheney, Rummy, etc.).

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. I stand corrected.

LOL

[bdamomma]

71. biden's comments

I think these senators want the American people to do something. Biden is okay but not as President. He is stuck on his term record.

[Little Star]

72. I generally like most everything

Biden says. Its what he does and how he votes that make me not all that crazy about him. Yep, he sure can talk the talk, I agree.