Do You Think Sey Hersh Is Being "Rathered"?

[SPKrazy]

Do you think that Rovian tactics of setting up the author with false information then discrediting him is at play?

Or maybe the nuke story is a trial balloon?

Or maybe it is a story to make anything less seem more acceptable?

You don't need nukes to penetrate deep underground bunkers.

We have he capacity to hit bunkers from aircraft flying above a country's air space, so why risk using nukes and alienate the world any more than * has already alienated them?

Thoughts?

[Cooley Hurd]

1. It's entirely possible...

...although I think Sy Hersh's is too smart to let such a thing happen.

Who knows?:shrug:

[Poiuyt]

2. That's what I was thinking too. I'm guessing that Hersh knows enough to

have more than one source.

[DBoon]

18. part of being "Rathered"

is that the content is entirely believable, and may even be supported by other reliable corroborating evidence.

The source in question, however, has a subtle flaw that allows the spin-masters to discredit the entire story, including the reliable corroborating evidence

[caledesi]

3. Read my mind. I thought from the beginning the Iran thing

smelled of Rove. Distraction, ya know.

[yurbud]

6. nope--immigration is a distraction, war is the real thing with these guys

[Champion Jack]

War is the real thing because it's MONEY

it'$ all they care about

[yurbud]

45. Clausewitz, "War is pursuit of diplomacy by other means..." Yurbud,

"War is pursuit of business by other means."

[caledesi]

24. Scary! nt

[blogslut]

4. ahhh...but

these nukes - to be used in Iran - are those fancy, new low-grade bunker busters! All the cool kids have them and they're very interested in justifying their continued mass production. These people are bascially arms dealers plain and simple.

[yurbud]

5. Hersh is careful about what he publishes and doesn't usually speculate

This story has been in several sources since at least last summer when someone in the Pentagon leaked it to the American Conservative magazine.

[FARAFIELD]

7. GOD NO WAY

Unlike Rather who was a crappy reporter (he was the first person to see the zapruder film - along with zapruder and the developer) and he always insisted kennedys head went forward, so what the hell does rather now. Hersch is the man and dug out My LAI when no one else would touch. Tell you what Rather and ROVE can come over and touch Hersch's puliltzer. He cant be duped

[Liberty Belle]

8. Scott Ritter says the same thing.

The former UN weapons inspector is a conservative Republican who voted for Bush.

He now says Bush is determined to stop a war with Iran and is willing to use nuclear weapons. He has sources in intelligence plus a speechwriter for Bolton who confirm this, he says. Ritter is so concerned that he has stated he will support Democrats running for Congress, because the only way to stop this is to flip the Congress and impeach Bush. I heard him say so at a California Democratic Party executive board meeting a couple of months ago.

[Eric J in MN]

14. Do you mean start a war? nt

nt

[Liberty Belle]

34. Bush will start a war with Iran and use nukes unless he's

removed from office, according to Ritter.

[xchrom]

9. somebody is gonna bomb iran.

[Warpy]

10. Hersh is careful about what sources he listens to.

I doubt he'd listen to much from the inner circle in the White House unless it had been confirmed by his contacts within the Pentagon, and they've been good contacts in the past.

I think this one is for real. This bunch of lunatics really think they're going to shore up their sagging popularity with another unwinnable war against an enemy at least three times the size of the one that's got them bogged down already and that the lies about more madmen with bombs are going to work again.

I just hope they're wrong. I hope Hersh's contacts are wrong. I hope this thing isn't going to happen because I know how quickly it can and probably will escalate into world war.

I just hope the rich men who run the party can put the brakes on the lunatics and their insane ambition of creating Armageddon so they can all git Raptured.

[sheelz]

11. Also see....

Nuclear War against Iran by Michel Chossudovsky
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=%20CH20060103&articleId=1714

[saltpoint]

12. Hersh has that old-school nose for what's happening around him.

What Hemingway called a built-in, fool-proof shit-detector.

Can't say for sure, but my bet is that nobody in the Bush White House is a match for Hersh's instincts, even KKKarl.

[rzemanfl]

13. And the government is setting off a million plus pounds of

fertilizer and fuel oil in Nevada because?

[SPKrazy]

23. From My Original Post

You don't need nukes to penetrate deep underground bunkers.

We have he capacity to hit bunkers from aircraft flying above a country's air space, so why risk using nukes and alienate the world any more than * has already alienated them?


nukes not necessary

[Viva_La_Revolution]

25. They WANT to use nukes

not a matter of need. they are batshit crazy, and nukes seem to turn rummy on especially. :scared:

[Ladyhawk]

39. Big Question: What will tactical nukes do to our planet?

Obviously, there isn't a good enough reason to use them, anyway, since conventional bunker busters would do the job. Of course, we haven't even tried diplomacy or UN pressure. $hrubCo is too "into" the whole blood and mayhem thing. I think * may be trying to bring about Christ's Second Coming. Really. :scared:

But after you get past all the other reasons why it's not a good idea to set off nukes in Iran (indiscriminate death, mayhem, possibility of retaliation by a third party, etc.), what would a "tactical nuke" or three do to the planet? I know it would make areas of Iran uninhabitable for the foreseeable future. What else would it do, worldwide? Would it have an effect on global warming? What would it do to the folks downwind?

Anyone want to field this?

[cali]

26. Have you read the article?

Hersh doesn't say that they're set on using nukes, only that it's something they're considering. Partly, there's always a contingent of those in power who want to unleash the newest, most potent weapons.
It's ludicrous to assume that Hersh is being duped. Only someone ignorant of his history, work and connections within the Pentagon would even consider it.

[Strelnikov_]

27. Actually, You Do. The Conventional 'Bunker Busters' Are Just That

Bombs designed for reinforced concrete bunkers.

Facilities buried deep in rock are a completely different ball game.

Why do you think the Cheyenne Mountain complex is, well, in a Mountain?

A article in Harpers a year ago outlined fairly well the limitations of a low yield (10-50 KT) nuke 'bunker buster'. Basically, they would generally be ineffective.

So, what it appears they are looking at now is a 1.2 MT penetrator. The 'device' is designed to penetrate a depth (10-20 ft.) into the rock and detonate. Shock waves from the detonation would destroy the target, if close enough to the surface.

Needless to say, the radioactive cloud, from a shallow below ground detonation, would be enormous.

Needless to say, the whole concept is madness.

But since when was sanity a Neocon prerequisite.

[SPKrazy]

30. I Read An Article In Discover Recently

about a new type of non nuke bunker buster that is capable of taking out a bunker easily, without having to be launched by a missie, or dropped by a plane in the airspace of another nation.

It was described as a weapon that resembled a group of light poles attached together in a bundle

They were dropped using satellite guidance and attain a speed of 5000 miles per hour before hitting their target. They are made of hardened steel. They also have explosive charges that detonate after the device penetrates the ground and hits the target.

I'm just saying that it is possible to hit targets without nukes, but you are probably right about these nutcakes, they will probably use nukes just because they can and they are EVIL BASTARDS!

[rzemanfl]

28. Your reply does not answer the question. Why is the government

setting off 700 tons of fertilizer and fuel oil in Nevada on June 2nd? The MOAB was detonated in Florida about eight or ten days before "shock and awe." BushCo either plans to use nukes or wants Iran to believe it will.

[SPKrazy]

31. What Do 700 Tons Of Fertilizer And Fuel Have To Do With Nukes?

seriuosly,

I'm no nuclear physicist, but one needs a very precise explosive mechanism to trigger the chain reaction of a nuclear explosion.

So I'm just not understanding the "mushroom cloud" of fertilizer and fuel oil.

That sounds like the kind of weapon that might be used in an area of dense foliage, like say, Venezuela?

[rzemanfl]

29. Read this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2560401

[sheelz]

32. Look at your link.

strange...

[Mind_your_head]

36. whoa....that IS strange n/t

[rzemanfl]

37. Thanks for your post and PM. I have over 5,000 posts and have

never seen this happen before.

[sheelz]

38. Perhaps you were going to reply to that thread

and copied the reply link? Could that happen?

[rzemanfl]

40. Let's see...

posted the link here.

[rzemanfl]

41. Yep!

[sheelz]

42. Yikes!

Don't do that again or people might make funny faces on your account.

[rzemanfl]

43. This looks like an episode of the Twilight Zone, people my age

will know which one.

[Eric J in MN]

15. It's not the same thing because, what would the gotcha be?

If the Bush Admin. announces that they never considered using nuclear weapons, it wouldn't make Sy Hersh look bad. We wouldn't necessarily believe Bush.

[mom cat]

16. You ask why? How about global domination. I believe these power mongers

want to use nukes to frighten the rest of the world into submission. Iran is a "safe" country to nuke because they cannot "nuke" back. Bushco has never cared what the rest of the world thinks. He just wants to win by threat of nuclear annihilation of any opposition.

[KharmaTrain]

17. Where's The Corporate Media?

Can't build a strawman without them. I haven't heard this story yet on any major media outlet. For a Rovian scam to work, you need to create a big buzz...a controversy...a strawman...a demon, and then boooosh or whomever comes to knock it down. This regime is being very mum about its Iran plans...a lot moreso than they were in the run-up to Iraq.

As others have said here, Hersch has impeccable sources. He's got the ear of many inside the intelligence establishment who have fed him stories that have turned out to be true. Also, Hersch is the one who provided corroboration on others stories...and still has some interesting knowledge on the Plame case.

Short of having pictures of Sy with small animals, this man's credibility as a quality investigative journalist who gets the story right is pristine.

[enough already]

19. Walks like Rove, smells like Rove, Quacks like Rove

Yep, it's got Rove's fingerprints all over it.

[KittyWampus]

20. You DO NEED NUKES if you don't have accurate intel telling you exactly

where certain things are. Read Hersch's article.

[Emit]

21. Sy Hersh goes way back as an investigative reporter

And Cheney has dealt with him before:

Here's an excerpt from Rise of the Vulcans. The author, James Mann, is discussing Cheney's job as deputy chief of staff, describing how he took care of mundane duties such as making sure the plumbing in the WH worked (literally), etc. Then he goes on to say,

It wasn't long before Cheney was taking over larger, more important assignments, standing in as Rumsfeld's alter ego when the chief of staff was occupied elsewhere. One natural area for Cheney was intelligence: He was trustworthy, faceless and unfailingly discreet. During the Ford years the CIA was trying to fend off an unending series of press and congressional investigations and, with them, efforts by the Justice Department to establish new rules and guidelines to govern intelligence collection. In May 1975 the New York Times published a story by Seymour Hersh describing the US intelligence community's secret effort to lift a sunken Soviet submarine off the seabed in the Pacific Ocean. Cheney was in charge of the meetings aimed at trying to figure out if the Ford administration should take legal action against the newspaper. Cheney's handwritten notes show that he actively considered a number of countermeasures, such as seeking an indictment of Hersh and the Times or even obtaining a warrant to search Hersh's apartment. The aim, Cheney wrote, was "to discourage the NYT and other publications from similar actions." In the end Cheney and the White House decided to back off after the intelligence community decided its work had not been significantly damaged. Rise of the Vulcans, pp 60-61

Just thought you might be interested in that tidbit. Nothing significant on the whole. But, Cheney's history with 'dealing' with them (Hersh as an investigative journalist and the press as a whole), heading up intelligence assignments to try to fend off the press, etc., I thought was interesting.

[NYC]

22. He wasn't being Rathered when he told us about

the Abu Ghraib evidence. Even though the government has managed to suppress it for this long, we know it exists.

[reprehensor]

33. No.

Sy is trying to wake the sheeple the best way he can.

[vivalarev]

35. IT DOESNT MATTER

No matter what this is we need to stop it. Whether its a trial balloon, a Rovian tactic, etc., it doesnt matter. We need to nip this shit in the bud. We need to tell bush that we wont stand for even the thought of this.

Lets stop the debate altogether and take to the streets to tell those in DC that we will not accept this. The revolution needs to start now. War is bad enough, but nuclear war is unacceptable. The miserable failure that is our government has already lost 2 wars, we cannot afford a nuclear war!

Lets stop this end-times maniac in his tracks. We need to take to the streets!

[enough already]

44. I'm ready to march

This shit has to end now.

[Terran1212]

46. The Nuke part is very small part of the article and being exaggerated

Stop focusing on nuclear strike and read the rest of it. It's all about a conventional attack of some kind. The nuclear bunker busters are just an after thought.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

47. No.

[yurbud]

48. Maybe nukes is a red herring like election 2004 terror attack

If you recall, the summer before the election, the White House floated a trial balloon about cancelling the election if there's a terror attack that day or shortly before, and people here rightly freaked out, but the net result was it made their actual election day crimes look less dramatic by contrast.

Now imagine the Bushies attack Iran, but don't use the nuclear bunker busters or whatever. They could still say their critics were Chicken Little because they exaggerated what was ultimately going to happen.

I give this scenario a pretty low probability of being low, partly because Rummy and Cheney are old enough and experienced enough to remember the nuclear calculus of MAD, and if we use nukes, any restraint China and Russia have shown will go out the window.

On the other hand, there are few stupid things these guys haven't done, except openly cancelling democracy and assassinating or arresting political opponents here. (they still have to be a bit furtive at that stuff).