What's Wrong with America

[RoyGBiv]

This is not going to be a vast polemic on the state of American society, nor will it be a laundry list of detail. I am skipping past the grand issues, not detailing the specifics. I am simply offering an anecdote that says more than it may seem to say on the surface. I heard this story from my daughter this morning and confirmed some details through her mother who already knew of it this afternoon.

My daughter is a sophomore in high school, but she's been in accelerated classes and has taken heavier-than-normal loads since the 6th grade. This has resulted in, among other things, her taking what the school refers to as "Senior History" this year. The administration was reluctant to allow this because the students are required to take a test at the end of the year as a part of the no-child-left-behind nonsense that will partly determine the funds the school will get next year. Higher scores means more money, and while my daughter's intelligence and willingness to work hard is well-known, old prejudices die hard. Younger students aren't supposed to be able to handle the subject matter. It's too advanced with too much nuance, and the test she has to take, supposedly, reflects that. With my daughter's assurances that she would work very hard and do her best, not to mention a little prodding directed at the administration from her mother, a college math professor, and a letter from myself, detailing my relationship with the world of history academia, my daughter was allowed to take the class.

I have not been surprised to learn that she hates it. The subject matter is so fundamental it's insulting to her senses, and she's learned far more from me talking about history and politics and government at every given opportunity. But, she has maintained and is making good grades, and her teacher is confident that she will do well on the test, but not overly confident of her class in general.

In the past few weeks, the teacher has begun preparing the students for the test by giving them practice tests, sometimes written, other times verbally by making it a game they play in class. My daughter has enjoyed this to an extent because she gets to recall her knowledge and put it to some use. In fact she was able to put her knowledge of both history and literature to the test recently in such a way that the retelling of the event fills me with abject horror and something akin to outrage.

During one of the game sessions, the teacher asked a question:

Which one of the following is not known as an industrialist or Robber Baron.

A) Cornelius Vanderbilt
B) Andrew Carnegie
C) Upton Sinclair
D) J. P. Morgan

Answer, according to the teacher, Cornelius Vanderbilt.

If you don't, at least generally, understand how absurd this is, you need read no further at this point. Get thee to Google at once, or better yet, a few good books on the subject.

Well, my daughter knew it was absurd, in no small part because she pays attention, but also because she had recently read _The Jungle_ at my suggestion of a socially important book to use for a book report. So, she objected, and the teacher replied that the answer key is not wrong.

It gets better.

When my daughter wouldn't back down, and when she was at this point assisted by a fellow student who also had paid attention, the teacher proceeded to tell the two girls in response to their declaration that Sinclair was an author who wrote a scathing assault on the meat-packing industry, "That makes him an industrialist. Novelists are industrialists because they make more money that their positive contribution to society justifies." My daughter said her jaw nearly fell through the floor, and when she picked it up, she objected one more time, along with now three other members of the class who had been in her English class when she presented her report. They asked the teacher to ask the English teacher about it.

At this point, having lost control of the situation, the teacher forcibly ended the matter.

Apparently the teacher was eventually corrected, probably by the English teacher, but she told the class only that the matter wasn't clear. According to the answer key, the non-industrialist was none other than Vanderbilt, whom the teacher said could not be a Robber Baron because he gave so much money to charities. Is it a typo on the test? Most likely. Is it absolutely absurd that the teacher, a history teacher, didn't catch it? Absolutely. This is not a vague detail of history.

The preceding is not a story about my daughter or the few classmates she had who supported her. It is about the rest of the class who would have regurgitated this incorrect information the rest of the their lives in one way or another, most importantly by not having the slightest clue what a so-called Robber Baron is or why the term is not a compliment. It is about a teacher so ignorant she didn't see the error even after it was pointed out and resisted efforts to correct her ignorance. It is about a bureaucracy so corrupt that intelligence and actual learning are punished or ridiculed rather than rewarded. It is about a system of education so fundamentally broken that this type of testing is what's called "accountability." There are many layers here that I will leave to your imagination if you managed to make it this far. I wrote this much as a sort of self-therapy to calm myself down, but it's not really working. I am utterly disgusted at the entire incident, and I am convinced that this and things like this are, to a large degree, what is wrong with America.

[annabanana]

1. I am so sorry that your daughter and her classmates

have had to suffer the insufferable. I hope that she has had the opportunity to take classes with at least some teachers who are more up to the task. My sons have been fortunate in that their History teachers have been, without exception, intellectually honest. When I hear horror stories about the underfunded and abused public schools, I fear for the country.

[tom_paine]

2. RoyG, I think you made a typo

It makes the whole post very confusing (though I believe I figured it out by reading the post).

You said "Answer, according to the teacher, Upton Sinclair."

I think you meant to say "Answer, according to the teacher, Cornelius Vanderbilt."

Please edit or this thread will sink like a rock due to confusion.

[RoyGBiv]

3. You are correct ...

This has me so bumfuzzled, I'm making mistakes. Thanks.

It'll sink like a stone anyway, but I had to do it. Like I said, therapy. :-)

OnEdit: That was so ironic I'm sitting here laughing like a crazed loon.

[bloom]

4. Thanks

that's better now.


That is too bizarre. The business about Upton Sinclair being an industrialist....


P.S. it does go along with what Thomas Frank ("What's the Matter with Kansas") was saying about Republicans being against "culture" (and knowledge, apparently)

[mwb970]

40. And then the Republicans complain that professors are all liberals.

Of course they are. We are the smart ones!

[SmokingJacket]

5. "Novelists are industrialists because they make more

money than their positive contribution to society justifies."

:rofl: :rofl:

That's the funniest, craziest, most bizarro-world thing I've read all week.

Last week it was "processed foods contain no water," a little gem my son picked up from his teacher.

School's supposed to be about education, right? They why do the letter jackets, the trophies, the pep rallies, the cheerleades all go to the ATHLETES??

If anyone still thinks Americans, as a whole, care about education, they're not paying attention.

[Iris]

50. And did Upton Sinclair make nearly as much money in his lifetime as those

other fellas? I mean, I'd have to go back and check, but I believe he was not very popular during that time - sort of like the guy who wrote the scathing indictment about McDonald's a couple of years back.

[EstimatedProphet]

6. The first run-through had me scratching my head

Upton Sinclair was not an industrialist is wrong? :shrug:

Now it makes more sense, in not making sense. The teacher is using a specious argument at best. It's really a stretch (I'm being generous) to call Sinclair an industrialist because he wrote about industrial corruption.

[RoyGBiv]

7. Yeah ...

But, hey, at least I admitted it. :-)

I do too much editing as I write sometimes and mess up things. I had initially intended to write that my daughter answered "Upton Sinclair" and was told she was wrong, but then I realized I wasn't sure if she had actually given the initial answer and so went another direction, forgetting to change all of what I'd started to write.

[SoCalDem]

8. You would be amazed..or not.. by the fact that LOTS of teachers

are not even qualified to teach their own subjects and lots resort to "movies" instead of text..

When they were studying Fitzgerald, my son's teacher showed them "The Great Gatsby" an never required that they actually READ the book.. (I made him read it )..

Some teachers cannot even spell.. (I once returned a handwritten note from a teacher with "red-pen" corrections I put on it )...couldn't help myself :evilgrin:

[RoyGBiv]

22. I'm not amazed ...

My daughter also had a teacher in a non-related subject that said during casual conversation post-parent-teacher discussion that his favorite novel was _Fahrenheit 451_. Since this is one of my favorites as well, I struck up a conversation and quickly realized he'd never even read it, or if he had, didn't remember it.

I don't know if you seen the movie, but the movie changes some things from the book, things that are rather glaring to those who know the book. In short, what he described was the movie, not the book.

[mongo]

9. My God

I'm so glad Daisy home schooled my daughter through high school.

Ever watch the show Lingo on the Game Show Network? You have contestants who lead professional lives and all, yet can't spell the word "train".

[acmejack]

10. "The Jungle" was the book that opened my eyes to what was possible

Muckraking, rabblerousing and politicking. Hopefully I'll see more success at all three soon.

I am shocked at the stories about the uninformed individuals serving as teachers. This is a direct consequence of us as a Country making the conscious decision that teaching should be a low paid profession. We could have made it a financially attractive career where it would have been alluring to the best and the brightest, but we opted to be penny wise.

[cynatnite]

11. Some teachers are absolutely dumb

I grew up in a farm town in OK. One thing OK grows is alfalfa...it's a major producer of the plant.

In Idaho, a Jr. High teacher told my oldest daughter Oklahoma grows very little alfalfa. Now, keep in mind...my step dad was a well respected John Deere farm mechanic and I used to go with him on some weekends. A few summers I was hired on with a farmer friend of mine and he grew alfalfa, hay and wheat.

After I recovered from the shock of this coming from a teacher, I called and spoke to the principal. The next day, my daughter came home from school laughing about how the teacher had to correct himself. She said his face was beet red.

I have a few other dumb teacher stories, but it does explain why so many people know so little basic knowledge about the US and its history.

[mandyky]

12. I am almost glad my son is in special education

classes. I would rather he not be autistic spectrum, but he is. But if I had to deal with teachers like this one, I am not sure what I would do...

Let me guess, is "said teacher" one of these "value voting Christians"?

[RoyGBiv]

20. Definitely ...

She tries to sneak in religious dogma into her classes from time to time, but she basically stopped doing that when she discovered one student in her class had parents who were crazy people that would make her life a living Hell if she tried to shove that crap down said student's throat.

I like being crazy sometimes and am thankfully her mother is equally crazy in the right ways. :-)

Awhile back she also went off on this tangent about Vietnam and how the protesters were undemocratic, that expressing free speech does not include the freedom to speak out against the government. That one instigated a private parent-teacher conference with the principal present that didn't end well for the teacher.

[ChazII]

13. A positive point of NCLB

teachers must prove that they are 'highly qualified' to teach their subject area, so hopefully this will be the last year teaching history for your daughter's teacher. At least until they get the needed credentials. Yes, I am a teacher and must jump through the highly qualified paper hoop each year.

[RoyGBiv]

17. That's the theory ...

But it doesn't work that way.

The error in this case was initially made by the publisher of whatever study guide she was using at the time. The teacher's ignorance was only exposed because of that error, and this will not be an issue with the actual test.

As noted, that story has many layers to it I did not explore. One of those layers is the method the teacher is using to prepare these students for the test that will supposedly prove or disprove her competence as a teacher. The incident I mentioned took place shortly after Spring Break ended. That's March. The test is given in May. The teacher has essentially ended any actual teaching and is instead now "preparing" the students to take the test by giving them a constant stream of practice quizzes and essentially cramming information, i.e. basic facts, in their heads encouraging rote memorization. This is not how history should be taught.

But, enough of her students will pass the test, as they have since the system was put into place, that she maintains her job and the school district maintains its funds. That's all the system encourages them to do. In fact, it's what the system demands they do.

[Hardrada]

14. And then there are teachers like my Dad and many we know

who knock themselves out trying to get the facts of history and society through to kids who are often very difficult to reach. Let's not let this thread get to be like "All lawyers suck" type threads. Not wise to generalize.

[RoyGBiv]

19. Absolutely ...

I do not intend anything I wrote to be a general indictment of teachers or teaching, rather of the system in which those teachers are forced to work. I come from a long line of teachers. I knew excellent teachers both in my family and outside of it. My daughter's mother is a teacher.

Another respondent said it well. The problem here is that we've decided to make teaching a low-paid profession. Some people who love it and are fully competent do it anyway, but there are vast holes that end up being filled by less than competent people.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

15. When I was in school, quite a few years ago....

History books did not emphasize why the Robber Barons were called that. History books basically spoke of how wonderful the U.S. was, and the rest consisted of date-treaty, date-war, date-congressional act, all of which we had to memorize. We also had to read a propaganda book titled, Americanism vs. Communism, and I don't need to explain that. I don't think American schools have been much to speak of. However, that was in the South, and even less can be expected of a school system located in a highly right wing geographical area.

I agree there are bad teachers. Unfortunately, I think the problem goes far deeper than that. This country has never been able to boast of good education, and still cannot.

[pretzel4gore]

16. that's better...

i was so impressed by Upton Sincair's 'Babbitt' when i read your op a while ago, when there still no replies, i was....perplexed, to say the least!
klol!
A few months ago, I read a book on the Titanic, and the role of the Titanic story in popular culture. The fact is, the 'truth' about the sinking was very quickly was drowned out in the fictional 'capitalist heroism' of the 1st class men and women on the Titanic upper decks, and the crude racism etc that typified the newspaper coverage of the events of the day. It was simply awful, that the newpapers could use whatever fed the illusion of racial/class superiority while dismissing anything, no matter how well documented, that contradicted the elitist view. It was just like the way the media misrepresented the 'crackheads running wild' in NOLA during katrina and all the rest of what we've seen....maybe our culture is so utterly corrupt that such stories such as yours were always happening, only so often, in so many areas that it just forced a kind of numbness in those who knew the truth....read 'lies my teacher told me' for an excellent example of how bias works in our society, and appears so normal it dominates popular opinion. Back during the Vietnam war era there was a poll taken concerning who were the doves and hawks regarding the war. The poll was actually a poll taken of university students on what they thought the doves/hawks poll results would be. In simplest terms, the 'object' poll asked if the poor and uneducated were more prowar (hawks) while the richer/more educated were opposed to war (doves) the students in the subject poll responded that yes, the poor and uneducated were the hawks, while the nice people were doves. But that was blatantly wrong! The war hawks were the rich, university educated, while it was the poor, lesser educated who were the doves! When the results were published, the students had overwhelmingly, almost to a man, predicted the poll results wrong ....The fact is, the well educated and the rich are conservative, and are the hawks, but they're so ashamed of it they actually accuse the poor/uneducated of thinking as they think! So remember that the liars need to lie, cuz otherwise they'd all pop a valve, or something!

[RoyGBiv]

23. Interesting analysis ...

On the matter of the Titanic specifically, I have to say one of the redeeming qualities of the most recent movie _Titanic_ was the way it presented this. Most movies about the Titanic disaster in the past revolved around stories told in the way you mention. Sure, some of the capitalists were jerks in a few of these stories, but most weren't. The lower classes, which made up the largest group of victims, are barely even in the movie until you get to the part where people go nuts, and it's always mostly the lower classes going the most nuts while the upper classes remain generally calm, accepting their fate or sacrificing themselves to save others.

There was some of this in the recent movie, but not as much, and we did actually get to see the lower classes locked away to keep them from trying to save themselves.

[GreenArrow]

51. "Upton Sinclair's 'Babbit'"

not to be picky, but "Babbit" is actually by Sinclair Lewis.

[pretzel4gore]

53. Sinclair Lewis! ah, a school teacher! ;)

lol...thanks (i was actually meaning to google 'the jungle' as i never heard of that story before, but my fact checker was(?)

[valerief]

18. All I can think of is George Costanza insisting Moops not Moors

is the right Trivial Pursuit answer to the Bubble Boy, because the answer card reads Moops. Teachers have become George Costanza.

[Ksec]

21. If you can believe it

The schools in Ohio are spending half the year preparing the kids for the tests that NCLB brought with it. I have two children and when they are taking these crash courses aimed at preparing them for these tests , they drop everything else. I believe there are only two subjects, math and english. Everything else gets put on hold.
When they go into the next grade these new teachers are mad because they havent learned the things they should have the year before, because of the tests, and now theyre behind in these subjects. Ive talked to lots of the teachers and they despise NCLB for this reason. (and others also)

Thank goodness my son passed his 12th grade test when he was a sophomore. Hes now a junior. My daughter who is in the 8th grade just finished the tests a few weeks ago. Hopefully she can get them over with and get on with her education.

[omega minimo]

24. So this teacher's ignorance of history, literature, vocabulary & economics

is "all good" as long as she can coach kids to mimic, memorize, parrot and "test well"?

How bloody ignorant does she have to be to not know that Sinclair is an author and to make up her own (or worse, the test workbook?) definition for "industrialist"?

"That makes him an industrialist. Novelists are industrialists because they make more money that their positive contribution to society justifies."

Wherever THAT is coming from, excuse my French, but that's fuckin scary. :scared: :crazy: Also shows how art and culture have been disappeared from the curriculum ("make more money than their positive contribution to society justifies":wtf: )

Maybe your daughter should ask to look it up in the teacher's Newspeak dictionary.

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!

[RoyGBiv]

25. She's a piece of work ...

With a comment previously posted in mind, I want to reiterate that this is not intended in any way as an indictment of teachers as a whole, rather the system under which they work.

That said, teachers this stupid should not be teachers. I've tried throughout the day just to let this go. I know my ex-wife handled it well. She handles everything like this well and is a fierce advocate for truth and intellect, but I'm really wanting to have a talk with this person.

I also mentioned in another reply that this teacher also constructed a brilliant piece of logic that resolves to those who protest against the established government being undemocratic, declaring the the 1st Amendment was never intended to protect those who were, in her words, unpatriotic. I've let myself believe throughout the school year that in some of this my daughter is simply exaggerating to an extent and is telling stories she knows will allow the two of us to have an incredibly good time verbally smacking down the ignorant and stupid. But I know that's not the case, at least not entirely. I went so far as to validate this story, and I'm pissed about it, more so because I dropped out of the teacher education program near graduation because I was told, in essence, that if I didn't get a coaching certification I would never find a job as a history teacher in Oklahoma, where I wanted to stay at least until my daughter graduates. I'm pissed at the system and pissed at myself for letting it affect me. Episodes like this only infuriate me more, both at myself and at that system.

I did tell my daughter, without even a hint of jest, that the next time something like this happens, I want to know about it immediately. I have no plans to get stupid about it, but I know a few people in various history departments in the state who would be very interested in this sort of thing.

[omega minimo]

30. IMHO your disclaimer wasn't necessary the first time

:hi: It seemed pretty clear you are talking about a particular individual, the degeneration of the system and teaching to the test-- not about the conscientous teachers that try to actually teach.

Someone like the teacher you describe must be a product of the already-dumbed-down system if she just makes stuff up and doesn't recognize basic references.

Those "basic references" aren't common anymore if we keep raising generations of students who dont' read books.

Your sig line says it all :rofl:

"The big trouble with dumb bastards is that they are too dumb to believe there is such a thing as being smart." - Kurt Vonnegut

They only believe in "passing the test."

Thanks for sharing this. You're right-- it is a sad and searing sign of the times.

[Marie26]

36. It's frickin fascist

"Novelists are industrialists because they make more money that their positive contribution to society justifies." As opposed to, oh, Enron CEOS & Bush cronies? It's an attitude that the arts & humanities aren't worthwhile - that only money & economics matter. It's so reassuring to know that there are US teachers preaching fascist ideology. I remember reading that Nazi Germany society was very similar; w/huge surceases in science & industrialism, but no appreciation for art, literature or liberal arts. When we lose the humanities, I think we are in some sense losing touch w/our own humanity. And there's plenty of evidence of that everywhere in our society today.

[omega minimo]

45. Right

That's how they turn citizens into consumers


Notice also it always the "robber barons" and "fascists" that claim the best art for their private spaces.......................................................................

[pretzel4gore]

38. hitler was a socialist....

though schools may not have got that far yet, i expect it every day...i hear this stuff on talk radio as if it's 'secret fact' the lib media has kept hidden for generations (the nazis were the 'national SOCIALIST workers party' gettit? - the same trick was used to obscure the fact that 'Soviet' in USSR literally meant 'workers'; the hammer and sickle were the tools of industry workers and agriculture workers, yet they were made evil(!))
to know history is to know anguish....

[omega minimo]

44. The schooling we're talkin about produces the "good germans" that enable a

"dictator"

[RagingInMiami]

26. This is my theory on what's wrong with America

I was educated in this country except for one year I spent going to school in Colombia when I was 15 years old. Most Americans believe Colombia is a third-world country. Of course, most Americans are not taught about anything that happens beyond our borders. And even then, it's the watered-down version.

The truth is, Colombia's primary and secondary education system is much more advanced than the American system. I'm sure the same could be said for many other countries in Latin America or in Europe.

The one year I spent in Colombia, I was taught Calculus, World History and World Geography. I had no option, these were required courses.

It was very difficult, especially the Calculus. But a lot of it sunk in, especially the World Geography and World History. After returning to the public school system in the U.S., I had never seen World History or World Geography offered. Maybe it was offered for those overacheiving honor students, which were rare in my school.

The point it, most Americans are kept ignorant. They are bred to be egocentric. That the world revolves around them. Most educators are ignorant because they themselves are products of the system. I used to think it was a huge flaw that needed to be addressed.

And it wasn't until Bush took office that I realized that it wasn't a "flaw". And it's never going to be addressed. In fact, it's done on purpose and it has paid off perfectly for the powers-that-be.

Because if the people had not been bred to be so dumb and ignorant, then Bush would have never been able to pull the shit he has pulled off since 2000.

[rockymountaindem]

27. Sounds like the history teacher I had sophomore year

She was totally clueless. She misidentified so much stuff, and at one point when we were watching a video on the Great Depression (I guess that was a little out of her depth, or else she just wanted to slack off that day) and they started talking about how Pres. Hoover bungled the whole situation, she lept up hit fast forward and said "Uh oh... bad Republican President... better skip over that!"

Un-be-lieveable.

The good news is that later in high school when I talked with the other history teachers (who were pretty good, I must say) I found out they all thought Ms. So-and-So was a big joke and lamented how hard it is to get people like her fired. So, at least that reflects well on them.

[solinvictus]

28. Teachers..

There are many incompetent and tenured teachers. My daughter's second grade teacher appeared to be functionally illiterate, yet she still had her job. I had a science teacher who did not understand the concept that 32 degree Farenheit was the freezing point for water and an initial melting point for ice. A friend had a middle school teacher who referred to WW II as "World War Eleven". I had a middle school Algebra 1 teacher who could not complete the problems in the textbook. I had a high school geometry teacher who memorized the book by rote, but could not explain the mechanisms and operations of a single geometry problem.

[TexasLawyer]

29. I hope you send this write-up to the school

(with names) and to your school board.

[Heidi]

Self-delete. Dupe. (nt)

[Heidi]

31. RoyGBiv, I hope your daughter

gets an opportunity to live abroad sometime. From things you've posted about her, she impresses me as intellectually curious. I've gotta tell you, I went to public school in Oklahoma, and had no real understanding of American history until I went to college, and didn't have an honest perspective on my country until I lived abroad. I'm 43 now, so maybe history is taught better than it was when I was in high school, but I suspect that the political divide in our country is very much visible in classrooms.

[RoyGBiv]

33. The Plan...

I have a plan I've been working toward for a couple years that involves giving her a graduation present of an extended trip to Europe. I couldn't support her there for very long, but with what I've been saving combined with what I wish to save in the next couple years, I am hoping I can at least send her there for the summer or longer if she's willing/able to support herself to some extent while there. That's probably not quite what you're talking about, but the plan is based on the same philosophy. I want her to see and fully experience other cultures, at least to the extent she can given available resources.

I also don't want her to experience terminal burnout like I did straight out of high school. She's been pushed so hard and has pushed herself so hard that I fear her first taste of freedom being associated with the first year of college could prove disastrous.

And, no, it's not taught better. It has rarely been taught well at the high school level except by individual teachers working against the grain, but with current "objective" testing requirements, the official curriculum has become more mundane and, in my view, ridiculous.

[Heidi]

35. Check this out.

There's an American college in our Italian-speaking part of Switzerland. Annual tuition is quite pricey, but the summer program is something I would have _loved_ to have done when I was a college freshman. http://www.fc.edu/academics/index.html?file=summerprogs.html

www.fc.org

[libnnc]

32. ho-lee-fuck...

as someone who:

a) Just recently graduated with a BA in US History

and

b) Just happens to be originally from west of Asheville, NC--where Biltmore Estates are located (George Vanderbilt's take on the "French Chateau" America's largest private residence, 250 rooms and 65 fireplaces).....

I am right now banging my head against my desk.


:argh: :banghead:

[Marie26]

34. Ugh.

Proving once again that school is more about teaching conformity that anything else. "No Child Left Behind" is a nightmare. Teachers have to spend so much time teaching the tests that there's no time left for debate, or interesting tangents or :shudder: independent thought. All that matters is what's in the answer key. Good for your daughter for standing up to the teacher.

[RoyGBiv]

37. Here's some irony ...

At least I think of it as ironic.

Last school year, my daughter had a generic "social studies" teacher who, from first appearances, came off as a freeper type In fact I recall that I posted about him in the context of the Presidential election and a group of students including my daughter working themselves up to face off against him after the Presidential debates. My daughter and some of her friends stood up to him too, but not quite in the same way because, as I realized, he wasn't spouting ignorant nonsense. He was playing devil's advocate for the only group in the class that seemed willing to take a stand on anything.

He loved my daughter and her social circle, all of whom reinforced each other on he matter of the importance of being intelligent and forming well-consider opinions, even if you disagree. And that was the point of the way the teacher taught his class. He often issued forth opinions with which many students disagreed, and he did so intentionally. Always, however, these opinions came with an intellectually coherent basis that forced the students to think in order to counter it. In the posts I wrote around the election, I mentioned that my daughter and her friends had engaged in a solicited debate, after which the teacher was forced to admit he was wrong. He did so quite willingly, and as I realized, he had planned on the possibility of being found wrong in the hopes the students would force the issue, i.e think for themselves. He told me at a parent-teacher conference that he was thankful every day for students like the group that included my daughter. He didn't always agree with them, but he respected them for taking a stand for something. And I have to say, even though I know many of my opinions do not mesh at all with this guy's opinions, I have a lot of respect for him as well. He knows how to teach.

The teacher I mentioned in the OP is quite different.

[hootinholler]

39. And that is one of the many reasons I did not return to academics

when I left the military. By the teacher's reasoning Carnegie wasn't a robber baron because he felt quilty and built all those libraries.

-Hoot

[BiggJawn]

41. Boy, talk about "Teaching the TEST"...

I didn't need to go to no steenkeen Google to answer that.

And teacher got her "remorseful philanthropists" mixed up, too, it was Carnegie who was trying to buy his way into Heaven by giving it all away, not Vanderbilt.

"Novelists are industrialists because they make more money that their positive contribution to society justifies."

I can still find a copy of "The Jungle" in the library. Can you go for a ride on Corny VanderBee's Pennsylvania Railroad?

That teacher needs to be confronted about her Kool-Aid addiction, too.

[progressoid]

42. Hey, we have a Carnegie library here.

And of course there is the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace too. So I guess he shouldn't be on the list either since he dec iced to give away some of his money too???

Well...ummm... :wtf:

[CrispyQ]

43. I don't have kids, but when I read accounts like this,

I realize that education & teaching have changed radically since I was a kid. This teacher's qualifications? She can read the answer key. Holy crap!

Dumbing down the masses is critical for the cabal to control them. I hope there are more children like yours who are being taught critical thinking skills along with a solid basic education.

[BeFree]

46. I know what you mean

Most everyone you talk to about the stolen elections blames something else for the sorry state of affairs. Or they say: so what?

Its as if this same teacher has control of America today. "He was elected", they say.

Its too bad we don't have a modern day Upton Sinclair to write about the current e-voting industry.

[Gregorian]

47. Time. Money. Comfort.

There is an absolute when one raises one's own food. Corn takes water. And it takes a back. Or it did. Our values have changed. But they couldn't have changed without one thing. Oil. And that, I believe, is why we are where we are today.

It is a function of population. We were sustained by trees. Burning them that is. But we grew. And searched for an alternative. We found it. And it has given us each the power that only the few had. With oil, we might as well have our own private army of slaves. How else could you move your vehicle down the road. It would take 100 slaves to do the same.

So we are lazy and powerful now. And you can expect the results.

[Duppers]

48. My son had similar experiences (plural). It's fuckin' sad!

Thank god my son's out of high school now and in one of the nation's top universities.

[long_green]

49. Mail "Lies My Teacher Told Me," by James Loewen, to that teacher

with the inscription "Thinking of You."

[Earth_First]

52. Reading through these responses, I was hoping to see this suggestion...

I'm glad to see that it made the cut.