I may not vote this time

[BeFree]

If I ever missed an election before now, I don't recall. For 30 some odd years my duty was to go to the polls and cast my vote.

Usually, as any voter must certainly do, the question of whether or not my vote was counted as cast, entered my mind. But aware of things as I was, the question was answered to the affirmative - Yes, I am confident it was counted as cast.

But now, I can no longer answer that way. I have my doubts. My awareness has presented me with good reason to doubt that my vote was counted as cast. Even my election supervisor could not honestly tell me my vote was recorded correctly since it was cast on a DRE!!

Well, the DRE is still there, but I may not be. What use is all the politicing in the world if my vote isn't even counted, or worse, is counted for the other candidate?

I would feel better about all this, even to the point of surety, if my fellow Americans seemed more aware of the current process of vote counting, but they are not.

So, I may not sweat about it at all this time and just let the machines decide who shall be elected. I don't know, I just don't know. Can anybody here convince me that I would not be wasting my time?

[boobooday]

1. I think that showing up is good, and signing in

We have to sign in. At least, if we were able to challenge to the point of a re-vote, there would be evidence that we were there and cast a ballot.

I know how you feel, but I think part of their plan is to discourage us from even attempting to participate in the process.

[Warpy]

2. First, continue to vote

Second, get a paper absentee ballot.

Third, if all you're offered is one conservative running against another, vote third party. Tell the DLC they can't win withour party progressives.

Just vote. Be counted.

Remember, even the Mafia kept two sets of books because they always wanted to know what the real numbers were. Your vote will be counted somewhere, even if the officials lie about what it is.

[opihimoimoi]

3. If you want change..you have no choice but to vote...by not voting

we give the Pubs an edge, for they will come out to vote...

worse, if many follow your footsteps, the Pubs have a chance to rule forever....something I cannot stand ... look at the damage done these past 25 years...

[Webster Green]

4. What's the big deal with voting?

It's not that hard to do. If you don't, you are conceding to the fascists. (and being a wimp, I might add)

Fuck these mofo's. Let's all keep voting! That'll show 'em! (Hopefully!)

[Minnesota Libra]

I just wish we could convince all neocons/fundies to join you. nt

[Cocoa]

5. for some BBVers, that is the goal

imo, an aspect of the BBV movement is to undermine confidence in elections, so people choose not to vote.

It seems it's not working very well, fortunately.

[OKNancy]

6. Please don't try to suppress the Democratic vote

[Cocoa]

7. well said

right to the point. :-)

[BeFree]

33. I am not

But thanks for misreading my post.

[glitch]

8. Vote anyway - at least make it harder for them to steal it. Why hand it to

them on a platter? We can't catch them if they don't need to steal your vote.

[BeFree]

39. Now that

....is somewhat convincing. Glitches, or not, I work on making it harder to steal.

[izzie]

9. Do vote for your Congressmen any how.

I always figured not voting was a statement but it also means my vote counts for more. If only about half the people vote, and about half vote one party looks to me like 25 percent are running the country. Since they tall us upper income people vote in a high percent I guess we have a gov. run by and for the upper income people only.

[derby378]

10. Demand a paper ballot

If they won't give you one, demand one anyway. Make them send you to someone who can help you out.

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. Well, you have to remember

if the poll numbers say the repukes are at 20-30% approval and they end up winning? Shit will hit the fan. I don't think they would take a chance on stealing the election if they are that far down in the polls. Just a thought to maybe give you some hope.

[AndyTiedye]

44. Yes, They Would! Ohio '05 Was The Test of Massive, Flagrant Theft

They took a bunch of referenda that were winning with over 60% of the vote
and manufactured a landslide defeat for all of them.
They flipped 30% of the entire statewide vote and got away with it.

The media explained it away, and they even sent some people to DU to
explain how the voters all changed their minds in the voting booth
so there was no public outcry, no nothing. :wtf:

They couldn't do the same thing in California, so they had their stooge
McPherson do a Blackwell on voter registrations, and let in hundreds of
Diebold Republican Electing Machinez.

[Orangepeel]

12. if you don't vote, it sure as hell won't be counted

"I might fail, so I won't even try." It's a typical attitude in life, but it isn't a particularly healthy or productive one.

[TahitiNut]

13. Please read this ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/10/p/16_voting.html

[BeFree]

18. Thank you

But as I stated, I have always voted, and I used to think it mattered.


I am still not convinced that my vote will be counted as cast.

[KoKo]

35. Your article says it all Tahiti...and why we must thunder to polls like

stampeding cattle in '06 even if it's holding our nose in some cases. This is IT...we don't have options after that...

Just thinking of two more years of the crap we've gone through like living in a Time Warp from Hell since 2000 Stolen Election and before that with the Clinton Impeachment years should be enough to drag oneself over broken glass to get to those polls..

:thumbsup:

[TahitiNut]

46. I don't think we can do less with any hope.

When I think that I wrote that in early October 2002, well .... :scared:

[glitch]

14. There are two ways the Repukes can win 1. if we don't vote. 2. they cheat

Make them opt for 2. That's the only way we can catch them at it.
Your way they don't even have to commit a crime.

A Republican getting into office without having to commit a crime is just un-American.

[FormerDittoHead]

15. FYI for those who don't know (like me). DRE="Direct Recording Electronic"

http://www.verifiedvoting.org/article.php?id=5018#s1q1

1.1. What is a DRE?

DRE stands for "Direct Recording Electronic" voting machine. As the name suggests, the voter directly enters the votes, which are recorded electronically. Almost all touch screen voting machines are DREs, although there are other DREs that have knobs or switches instead of touch screens.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. the only reason why I WILL GO to the pollls is out of

a sense of civic duty... but like you... I am not certain that it will be counted correctly.

I also realize that that they want you to give up... for it will be far easier to manage the machines that way and make it more predictable.

But like you... I wonder if this is an exercise in futitily... but unlike you I will be there out of a sense of civic duty.

[TahitiNut]

17. See ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/10/p/16_voting.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. that does NOT mean I have to trust the system

see I grew up in a country where the vote was shall we say FIXED on a regular basis. It was also a place where most folks DID NOT trust the election officials... still people showed up in droves... and voted... not because they trusted teh system... but because it gave them a right to complaint, and in time... they could no longer fix it.

But I come from a whole different expereince.... where my mom took us to the booth and had us watch... because it was a citizen's duty... now she never knew if her vote was counted either. These days... she chuckles realizing the "most powerful democracy in the world" is now in the same boat as a third world contry... and alas most of her citizens have not even noticed.

[BeFree]

22. Ah, yes

Someone actually read my post. Thank you, nadinbrzezinski, but then you are one of the sharper knives in the drawer, eh?

My sense of duty has lead me to spending nearly all my political capital on making sure people were aware of the culture of corruption surrounding e-voting. Election supervisors, county commissioners, state legislators, newspaper reporters, fellow activists - all have heard my pleadings to make sure my vote is counted. Without much success.

90% of my recent DU postings have been about this issue. But as I read through the responses on this thread, I am left with a feeling of utter discouragement: No one but you seems to get it. But then you take a cheap shot, seemingly saying that I will shirk my duty.

I remain burdened, and unfree of my serious doubts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. You may have your doubts

but go and vote... make their life a little harder. Again, read where I grew up... a country where elections where rigged... granted these boys could teach some classes on how to rig elections, but still. In that country... and folks knew the elections were rigged... over 70% of the registered voters showed up on a regular basis. One fine election they even had International observers and the party in power finally lost it... amazing, I think some Mexicans could teach Americans a thing or two about voting and why you should. Even when it seems hopeless... I might add... not that many folks know this... but in order to get them international observers it took two generations and scores of young people killed.

This is why I keep asking folks from time to time... what are people willing to give up in order to regain the Republic? I usually hear crickets when I hear that question.

[BeFree]

29. "Folks knew the elections were rigged"

If only it were so here, I might be convinced that my vote counts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I voted for the first time down there when I was 18

and trust me, I knew my vote did not count. I voted in the elections here, now that I am a citizen, and a strange sense of deja vu overtook me. I STILL VOTED... why I am not going to let them win... if you drop out THEY WIN.

[formercia]

20. I've suspected that some of the voting machine hysteria

is meant to discourage people from voting. My 2 cents.

[ruggerson]

25. Bingo! n/t

[BeFree]

37. Well

You'd be absolutely wrong. And it means I can guess you haven't been reading much about the subject.

[formercia]

40. There are definitely problems with the machines

and they can be rigged. I'm not trying to discount that but whipping up hysteria for its own sake is counterproductive.

[flyarm]

21. i was a poll watcher in my state..but i tell you when i went to vote

for myself..i used the waiting time in line to inform as many people i could how cooked these machines were..and i put the doubt in many peoples minds that they were waiting in line to have their vote stolen..i also told people loud in line that if the vote swapped on the machine to call over all the workers ..to make a scene .."how do i know my vote is counting "...

amd to be honest the machine swapped my vote and i raised holy hell..which woke up alot of people at the polling place i was at!!
i had the machine i was using shut down..

if you are not there voting..

..how can you effect any change??

sign up to be a poll worker..or poll watcher...instead of dropping out..join in on the system!

i also as a poll watcher kept a record..of how many dems signed the books..and how many repugs..

and i watched carefully for what people were carrying..if they took kerry stuff or the woman running for senates stuff ( brochures, t shirts, fans handed out with kerry on it) i assumed ( big assumption but i think a valid one)..and i marked how many were carrying dems stuff..and i marked them down and kept a running total..

and i don't care what the numbers said ..i know what i saw..because i had my own tallies!!

don't quit democracy..fight for it..do something..

learn what you can and teach a class on poll watching..get certified..do something..

to say..i am not going to vote..i am going to drop out ..is not a solution...

its running away from solutions!!

i have spent my time since 2004 mentoring someone to run for the supervisor of elections seat where i live..

learn all you can and do something in your community to make a change..

democracy isn't just for people who quit when the going gets tough..its up to the tough to keep fighting for it!..and demanding the changes needed to protect it!

fly

[BeFree]

26. Yes, well, flyarm

....that is all well and dandy.

But as you well know, the election was still stolen. I have beat my head against the wall and my head hurts. I shall continue my beating, but I remain unconvinced that it is not a waste of time being that the DREs will still be used again to count my vote.

Can anyone convince me? I doubt it.

I used to argue with people who said the elections were stolen. But now I can no longer argue with them - now, I just nod in agreement, and with a bit of shame.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Becauxse you don't want to be convinced

I get it, Flyam gets it, but yuo don't get it... you drop out, they win. It IS that simple

[BeFree]

31. Did I say:

I am dropping out? NO.

But think about it, here I am an activist, who knows my democracy is based on free and fair elections, having serious dobts about the basis of democracy, how many bystanders feel the same?

It must be the majority, because they don't, and never have bothered to vote. Houston, we have a problem.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. They have not bothered to vote for many complex

reasons, and until 2000 it had precious little to do with national vote rigging... in individual states and individual counties we have had a history of not very clean elections. They are as old as apple pie, elections and the American way. Tammany Hall is but one very good example.

No, in the modern period people don't vote because they have to work... they cannot afford to take the day off, and that is but one reason. Another, people have this crazy idea that what goes on in DC does NOT affect them... and that all politicos, regardless of party are crooked...

Others don't vote because blessed their souls they have no idea what they are voting on... so they abstain.

But mostly, it is because Americans in general have forgotten that the only way to make this government responsive is to vote and demand accountabilty... but from school people are NO LONGER taught that democracy ain't a spectator sport.

BBV in fact has received precious little coverage, and MOST FOLKS do NOT even know there is a problem.

Oh and by the way I am now a firm subcriber that politicos are rotten to the core... so these days I support the candidates I choose, not the party... and because of this I am no longer registered a Democrat either, but I am an independent.

Do I expect my vote to count? No... but I will make their life a little harder by making them actually SWITCH my damn vote.

[flyarm]

42. HAVE YOU WORKED TO GET INDEPENDENT POLLSTERS

in your community?? have you?? how about a fund raising campaign to have your county independantly exit polled??

In my community we just had Clint Curtis come to show his program how the votes get switched..but he also has a program up and running now for anyone running a campaign to have people register with the campigner to register how people vote..its like the person running's own exit polling...

how about looking into it ..and getting those running in your state to use his free program??

then if the election is stolen the people running have an independent record..to go to media and the people with??

we got as many people running that are for offices in my county at a seminar given by Clint Curtis (who is also running against the crooks)...and..i am in fla..with jeb

who has fucked us from here to heaven..but that doesn't mean any of us has given up..in fact we now have many repugs coming on board..when they found out hugo chevez now owns the voting equip we have...

is it easy?? hell no..is it alot of work..hell yes..has it been a upward battle..you bet...

have we given up??..never!!!!!!!!!!!

i will go out and speak about it ..i will fight my own party on it ..as i have..i will fight till my last breath..because i am responsible to future generations to do so!

and you are responsible as well...so you either ..be responsible..or you drop out..thats your choice..

my choice is to do as my forefathers..my father who fought, and my grandfather and my brothers and husband who fought in uniform for this democracy...is my fight any harder than theirs was???

no..

fly

[formercia]

34. I pretty much did the same thing last 2 elections.

just knowing someone is watching will prevent some dishonesty. This past year, the Republicans didn't even send a watcher in my Ward.

In 2004, I even kept the tally for the Republican watcher while they were on break. We all had a good time.

[flyarm]

45. and thank you for stepping up and doing that..after all ..

it is all our civic duty to do something to protect ..or try to protect our democracy!!

i thank you and all those who put forward the effort for this great nation of ours...

it may not always work ..but for those who try to do their most for this great land..we will win...we win with truth...

and the truth always prevails...

fly

[KoKo]

23. Before you decide this check out and see what your county is using

for '06. You may have options other than DRE machines. You could use Absentee ballot, too. Not all counties have adopted the Bush Bot Machines without a paper ballot or trail. It depends on how many activists were working in your county and state as to what was bought to comply with HAVA.

But, Absentee Ballot is still a way to make your voice known. If there are crooks counting the absentee ballots then I guess you should still be proud that you tried. :shrug:

[Dhampir Kampf]

27. Vote. Or soon shall come a dictatorship without voting.nt

[Zorra]

32. If nothing else, please vote just as a personal favor to me.

Thanks.

[BeFree]

41. Promises, promises

But that is an incentive. Not that I need one, I know how important my vote is supposed to be, but that promise has been broken by the e-voting election process.

[jwirr]

38. If you do not vote then you are surely will lose. Better a chance to

win than a sure lose.

[AndyTiedye]

43. At Least Make Them Go to the Trouble of Stealing It

Maybe they'll screw up and get caught.

[Moderator]

47. Locking

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