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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 01:22 PM
Original message
Dick Cheney's Tribute to Spiro Agnew


{1} Introduction

Last week, when Patrick Fitzgerald filed the "Government's Response to Defendant's Third Motion to Compel Discovery," the public learned that Scooter Libby had testified to the grand jury that both President Bush and Vice President Cheney had authorized the leaking of classified information to journalists who supported their efforts in Iraq. This information came as no surprise to those following the case: in February, in another document Fitzgerald filed, he noted that Libby had testified that his "superiors" had authorized his leaking classified information.

Libby had served the administration in three high-ranking positions. He was an assistant to President Bush; the Vice President's Chief of Staff; and Cheney's national security advisor. Thus, in the White House, he had three "superiors": Bush, Cheney, and Andrew Card. Because the February release had indicated two or more superiors had authorized his leaking classified information, it was evident he meant Bush and Cheney. Andrew Card , while technically Libby's boss, lacked any authority to okay such leaks.

Fitzgerald's response, which is Document # 80 in the pretrial motions and rulings, has three very significant pieces of information that we should examine. Each has implications both legally and politically. Let's look at each of the three, starting with a brief quote from Document # 80, and then look at what it could mean.

{2} "Defendant further testified that he at first advised the Vice President that he could not have this conversation with reporter Miller because of the classified nature of the NIE. Defendant testified that the Vice President later advised him that the President had authorized defendant to disclose relevant portions of the NIE." (page 23)

This information does not connect either Bush or Cheney with Libby's discussing Plame's identification with journalists. But, obviously, it comes uncomfortably close.

More important, it raises questions about what Bush and Cheney told Mr. Fitzgerald, when he interviewed them as part of his investigation of the case. I am reminded of the decision from the US Court of Appeals regarding Matt Cooper and Judith Miller's attempt to avoid testifying, which was decided on February 15, 2005. In his concurring opinion, Circuit Judge Tatel noted, "Were the leak at issue in this case less harmful to national security .... I might have supported the motion to quash. Because identifying appellant's sources istead appears essential to remedying a serious breach of public trust, I join in affirming the district court's order compelling their testimony."(page 41) Likewise, for the Special Counsel to seek information from the president and vice president indicates he was aware they played some potentially significant roles.If either Bush or Cheney lied to Mr. Fitzgerald, they could face obstruction of justice charges.

Even without legal consequence, the president's being exposed does significant damage to his reputation. Unlike the domestic spying scandal, where he could respond by saying, "Everything changed on 9-11, and as president I must protect Americans," in this case he is shown to have been playing political games with intelligence. Perhaps more so than during any other time, older Americans are seeing Bush as playing a Nixon-like role. And Dick Cheney makes Spiro Agnew seem slightly less repulsive.

{3} "Because the government does not intend at this time to call three of these individuals -- Mr. Tenet, Mr. Hadley, and Mr. Rove -- defendant is not entitled to discovery based on the need to prepare to cross-examine those individuals." (page 9)

People familiar with Team Libby have great respect for the talents of William Jeffress, Joseph Tate, and especially Teddy Wells. Yet it appears that they might have misread the case that Mr. Fitzgerald is preparing. One can appreciate that they could have reasonably expected that Mr. Fitzgerald would call on Tenet, Hadley, and Rove. The fact that Fitzgerald has gone on record saying he does not plan to call them is fascinating.

Legally, especially in light of the outstanding series of reports by Jason Leopold on TruthOut, it seems possible that Hadley and Rove could be indicted by the new grand jury in early May. (See his 3-28 "Fitzgerald Will Seek New White House Indictments.") This raises questions about reports that Rove is cooperating with Mr. Fitzgerald. I am reminded of page 444 of Joseph Wilson's book, where he writes, "Apparently, according to two journalist sources of mine, when Rove learned that he might have violated the law, he turned on Cheney and Libby and made it clear that he held them responsible for the problem they had created for the administration." I have been told that there is significant distrust and anger between factions in the White House in recent days. Reminds me of the terminal Watergate phase of the Nixon administration, when paranoia replaced logic.

{4} "At some point after the publication of the July 6, 2003 Op Ed by Mr. Wilson, Vice President Cheney, defendant's immediate superior, expressed concerns to defendant regarding whether Mr. Wilson's trip was legitimate or whether it was in effect a junket set up by Mr. Wilson's wife." (page 19)

In his book "Chain of Command," Seymour Hersch describes "a year-long tug-of-war between the CIA and the Vice President's office." (page 227) On pages 236 and 238-9, Hersch describes the tug-of-war in greater detail. One senior intelligence official told him that many people believed that there was a small group of "disgruntled retired CIA clandestine operators" who were "so pissed at Cheney" that they attempted to "put the bite on " the OVP. Hersch notes that this could be viewed as "an extraordinary commentary on the level of mistrust, bitterness, and demoralization within the CIA under the Bush Administration."

In "The Rove Problem" (Time; 7-25-05), Nancy Gibbs noted, "The tensions between the White House and CIA had been rising steadily in the months before the Iraq invasion, as CIA analysts complained about evidence being distorted or ignored and the White House pushed back with complaints about the quality of intel they were getting. 'I know the analyst who was subjected to withering questioning on the Iraq-al-Qaeda links by Libby with Vice President Cheney sitting there,' says a CIA analyst."

The tensions between the OVP and CIA were obviously at risk of boiling over. The CIA analyst told Gibbs that Wilson's op-ed played into "the Administration (being) pissed at the CIA." Again, we see shades of that old Nixon paranoia. If Cheney believed that Wilson's trip was not "legitimate," but was "in effect a junket set up" by Plame, it seems worth considering the possibility that Cheney was involved in the plan to leak more than a NIE.

{5} Conclusion

In one of my favorite books, "We Talk, You Listen," Vine Deloria, Jr. writes, "The New Left has tried to create a sense of revolution by shouting slogans and marching up and down the streets. But when the hated establishment is left secure in its citadel, certain that it cannot be dislodged, then it has very little reason to pay attention to them and maintains the power to suppress them. The New Left should use the system to create uncertainty in the minds of Congressmen it dislikes so that all would tend to change lest lightening strike them in their next election. ...There has never been a ystem yet that would not gladly sacrifice one of its own for a moment's peace, no matter how brief. If the system is to be changed, then those who would change it should pinpoint its weak spot, its blockage points, and place aqll pressure on that one point until the blockage is cleared." (pages 65-66)

Legally, we can trust Mr. Fitzgerald to address the issues involving the crimes of Libby and Rove, and perhaps even VP Cheney. But politically, we have a wonderful opportunity. It is being reported that the President left the leaking of the NIE up to VP Cheney. The Office of the President is surely attempting to distance Bush from Cheney on this. Dick Cheney is the administration's weak spot, and the blockage point that we should be putting public pressure on right now.

Cheney is more unpopular than Spiro Agnew. While republicans will fight any immediate effort to punish Bush formally for his scandals, they will sacrifice Cheney. In my conversations with aides to moderate democratic congressmen, there is far more interest in going after Cheney this summer, than attacking Bush. I am not for a second excusing Bush, or attempting to suggest that democrats let him off. But there are many advantages to flushing Cheney out of the system first .... much as there was in flushing Agnew in the Watergate days.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. posting comment so I can find/read this later
thanks H2O Man
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. If Cheney Is "Flushed"
I am assuming the shadow government would go right down the toilet with him. What thinkest thou?

Also, as to the rez and his vice speaking to FitzG., could that in any way be considered legal testimony? Many have pointed to the fact that they weren't under oath but doesn't their oath of office make that a moot point?
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Lying to investigators is obstruction.
It has a heavier penalty that perjury. 10 years vs 5.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Libby and Martha
both have found that lying to investigators -- while not under oath -- is a serious crime.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you again. 5th recommend.
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. If they plan to possibly sacrifice Cheney then who'll be the VP?
The sacrifice of Spiro Agnew was less relevant since it was Nixon who was in control, but in case of Cheney, it is Cheney who is control of the government and not Bush. That means that the Gerald Ford option - the grey loyal boyscout - is not an option, since they need somebody who can govern.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. It's really not the same thing
Nixon could afford to "sacrifice" Agnew because Agnew's misdeeds were entirely coincidental to Nixon's. Agnew was guilty of bribery and extortion dating back to his tenure as a county commissioner in Maryland. He was still taking money after becoming governor of Maryland and then Vice President. If Watergate had never happened, Agnew would still have been a crook. No one has ever accused Agnew of knowing anything about the plumbers unit or any of the other White House horrors that have been conveniently packaged under the name Watergate.

Cheney, on the other hand, is intimately involved with the wrongdoing in the Bush regime. He is an avid consumer of intelligence reports and, consequently, it would be hard for him to deny that he was aware that the evidence against Saddam was inconclusive at best, yet he went ahead and pushed for war making the case against Saddam sound far more certain than it was.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. "Mr. Galloway Goes to Washington"
(page 45) "In that he was little different to the leaders of most regimes; regime survival is the ultimate priority of most systems -- we just don't know it in our own countries, yet."
-- George Galloway
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. That Is The Problem & Maybe The Solution
Whoever they put in will be the "heir apparent". But whoever it is will be forever associated with the ills of this administration. The "secrets" of the B*** Wh are going to keep coming out for there is a treasure trove of them and whoever is the next VP will be haunted by what the current veep has done, including setting up a secret and hidden government that he was the head of.There's treason for you!
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. Pork Chop Boy as an appetizer until after November?







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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. "put the bite on "
Can't help wondering what they did and if it had anything to do with helping to keep this case an ongoing matter. Wonder what Tenet's stand is these days and what's he's doing.Been very silent. Remorse for allowing himself to shoulder the blame for the 16 words or is he more inclined to help "put the bite on"?

Fascinated by the fact that the brilliant Mr. Wells could have so misread FitzG.'s case. One might wonder what other surprises are in store for him and Team Libby.
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. I'm convinced that Tenet was "paid off" with that medal.
Edited on Sun Apr-09-06 08:11 PM by Olney Blue
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. question

"I have been told that there is significant distrust and anger between factions in the White House in recent days."

were you told this by the same aides to Democratic congressmen you refer to in the last paragraph? I am thrilled to read this! Nixonian indeed!

Excellent again H2O Man. I would like to see them both charged with OOJ charges!

:)
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
13. great point on focusing our energy on Cheney
In a completely different vein, I have made that point about the left in general - we have so many issues that we care deeply about that we spend our time shouting & supporting 100 different issues instead of focusing on one or two at a time.

Or, in the run-up to the election, we had various ads from MoveOn, America Coming Together, the DNC, etc that hit Bush on 1000 legitimate issues. Meanwhile, every Republican ad was "John Kerry is an unprincipled flip-flopper who can't be trusted with national security."

If we can focus on Cheney like a laser, he can hopefully be the first of many.
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. Great observations as always. Love your work, please keep it coming. n/t
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
16. K.
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. Even more xlnt than usual
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. Spiro was a saint.


Paranoia, at essence, is fear.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Right.
Paranoia is essentially fear. It is generally the unhealthy essence of fear, which becomes associated with hatred.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. These are master manipulators.
They use their offices, their media organs and the nation's employers to mak people think what they want. Their playbook is NAZI old-school.

"Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death." -- Der Schickelgrüber.

My memories of Spiro, besides the kickback thing:

He is the subject of the smallest book I've ever owned: "The Wit & Wisdom of Spiro T. Agnew." It's 20-or so pages were filled with his quotes, like:

"If you've seen one slum, you've seen them all."

It also had great illustrations. But, at essence, it was a very thin book.

Thanks for your excellent post. The essential relationship of these GOP stalwarts is their criminality. They don't get tapped to be veep, prez or anything else unless they, themselves, are maleable and manageable.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-09-06 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. I'm kicking this for H2O Man!
I really don't know what we'd do without you, brother! :hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Thank you.
This scandal sure has come back to confront the administration in a big way. Chief Paul Waterman ended one of the four interviews I did for publication with him by reminding people to always try hard to be honest, and tell the truth. He said we own our own lies. I think about that when I read Fitzgerald's document # 80. Scooter is a liar, and his defense team is to say, "Oh, these lies aren't Scooter's. They belong to other folk." Nope, these have your name on them, Mr. Libby. And it sure looks like Mr. Fitzgerald has some others pegged.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
22. I agree - let's "flush" Cheney first, then Bush is weaker to boot...
Edited on Mon Apr-10-06 05:41 AM by Mr_Spock
Anyway, the idea of a President Cheney makes me want to :puke:

Excellent post BTW - recommended.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. The republicans
have longed believed it worthwhile to have a "lightening rod." An obvious example was in the Reagan years, they put James Watt out front. While he deserved every insult directed at him, he helped to distract attention from other villains in the administration.

During the first term, the Office of the President was okay with people attacking Cheney. It actually was one of their inside jokes. Bush liked the progressive democrats saying that Cheney was running the show, because it took the weight of responsibility off his shoulders. He put his cheer-leading skills to good use, with his prancing on the air craft carrier and his constant, "9-11 changed everything."

One of the senior administration officials is quoted in Wilson's book as saying they brought earthmovers in to cover up the Plame scandal. But as Martin used to say, truth crushed to earth will rise again. In this case, we could also quote Malcolm, as there are some chickens coming home to roost.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. truth crushed to earth will rise again
The cracking of the hull allows the taproot out...

The Truth is a living thing.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
24. Once again, you are my news sours of choice on this issue.
Cheney playing Agnew is something that makes perfect sense. While Agnew took cash in the Office of the Vice President, Cheney expanded that office to Halliburton and other close friends in a "neptocracy" of epic proportions. Agnew would be ashamed of all the real money he passed up with his petty schemes.

Fitzgerald is simply to far the intellectual superior to any of these "pikers" to make it a fair contest. They're all going down.

What are the political opportunities? It's interesting to contemplate because there are so many political deficits. The left may have 30 members of the House and none in the Senate. The excellent suggestion you supplied is our only hope...make it appear that neconservativism is to toxic nobody will touch it or its remnants.

I'm sure we'll all be leftists in a year or to as the looming end of the world in 2100 due to global climate change (the 20' rise in sea level). The form of that shift to the left is vital to understand. Failure to do so will allow the idiots in charge now to be replaced by other idiots who fail in a way that is truly cataclysmic.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-10-06 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
27. ~v~
:kick:
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