What if the military stood down?

[happydreams]

What if the military, or at least a large segment of the military, refused to carry out Bush's orders to attack Iran should they come. They simply stand-down and refuse to cooperate with this megalomaniac hell bent on spreading more mayhem. I know this is a far fetched hope, but it is possible. The numerous high level civilian and military people as well as a large number of those from the Intelligence Community, many labeled conservative, are vehemently opposed to the existing war in Iraq and would be doubly so for an expansion to Iran.

Bush is a political and moral basketcase with an approval record in the toilet, all he has going for him is police state power and the military via his role as Commander in Chief. This in not 2003, people from all sectors of the US are fed up with his cowboy militarism and shit-for-brains foreign policy based on deception and fearmongering.
If the military stood down and refused to attack Iran I'm sure the Public would support them. If they don't then we may as well put humans on the endangered species list.

[Inland]

1. How about if Congress refused to authorize it or pay for it?

Really, there's all the consitutional authority in the world to stop Bush.

No sense asking for mutiny.

[cynatnite]

2. Didn't that happen with Ford?

Congress wouldn't approve the needed funds and then Saigon fell?

[babylonsister]

3. H2S had the same thought-here's a thread that compliments yours:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2561318

I personally would relish seeing the military leaders step away from this warmongering cabal, and do think it would make many hearts and minds think for a change.

[happydreams]

6. Resigning is different from refusing orders. Those people

will just be replaced. A refusal to follow orders would force this fascist bastard to start firing people and THAT would bring this into the public focus in a big way. Those refusing the orders could argue that they are sworn to uphold the Constitution and that starting a war without a declaration by Congress is unconstitutional.

[babylonsister]

21. I don't think that will happen with all these generals who

would lose their retirement if they were fired.

[Retired AF Dem]

4. Is this what you really want?

Maybe next time the military will just take over the Govt (no matter which party sits in the white house) because they think they can do a better job of running the country. The very last thing you ever want is a military that decides it won't be run by the civilian Govt. What is the old saying? "Be careful on what you wish for, it might come true".

[cassiepriam]

5. I agree, but do you want a military who would follow Hitler's orders

and kill 6 million Jews?

[Retired AF Dem]

8. We arent there

Have you seen Bush round up and place Muslims in concentration camps? I haven't. I know of one Democrat president that has done that to the Japanese. Thank god the military didn't decide they were going to sit out world war 2 over it. Bush sucks and I can't wait till him and the rest of the losers are out of office, but so far I have seen no reason for the military to start doing what they want, civilian govt be damned. After 06 and 08 I fully expect to see us in power. I hope the military (which is more Republican than Democrat) wont decide to take over because of it.

[cassiepriam]

14. Oh I think we are. I count the Iraqi people we are murdering,

maiming, torturing, women and children. And now
we are going to annihilate Iran.

BTW I am an AF brat, grew up in the AF.

[happydreams]

7. Good point. The military leaders in the US have shown much more respect

for the Constitution than this smirking chimp. Bush is far to the right of much of the military IMHO. Bush is already a dictator, if he was stopped the military is hardly capable of taking over the government, it simply would refuse his orders and leave it at that.

[cynatnite]

15. Resignations of the generals would really shine a spotlight...

That's how I see it playing out.

Anything bush wants to accomplish militarily may not happen if Generals either refuse or resign in protest.

On a side note: I'm of the personal opinion that most of the Joint Chiefs think bush is insane and are working to contain his messianic ideas. It would explain Sy's article. It'll keep him in place...at least for now.

[Llewlladdwr]

17. "the military is hardly capable of taking over the government..."

"it simply would refuse his orders and leave it at that."

You really think that's where it would end?

[happydreams]

19. It happened in Vietnam and at no time was the military

a threat to the civilian control of the government. But even if the military did take over the government it would be better than what we've got, there would at least be some dispersion of power. But then you have to believe, as I do that we are a dictatorship already.

The frog is being cooked.

[EFerrari]

9. Didn't I see a thread around here the other day about a new

documentary, "Sir, No Sir" that takes as it's subject the service people who just refused to got into combat during Viet Nam? I think it's openning very soon -- like, next week or so.

It's not how one would prefer to run the military but I bet those kids saved lives in the long run.

[happydreams]

12. There was a peace movement in the military during

Vietnam. I read something by Chomsky on this a while back. Refusing orders is not the same thing as taking control of the government. When your orders are in direct violation of all that is right and good as well as the Constitution you have a duty to disobey them.

[cynatnite]

10. The Oath of Allegiance

wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)


http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/faq/oaths.htm

[cynatnite]

13. Does anyone notice the difference in the two oaths?

Enlisted swears to obey the orders of the Pres. Officers do not.

There is wiggle room for officers to not obey orders from the president if it's in violation of the constitution.

Least that's how I read it.

[happydreams]

16. I took the enlisted oath during Vietnam period.

Thanks for the links.

[Orsino]

11. What if the electorate stood up? n/t

[datasuspect]

18. and invaded washington d.c.?

then we would truly be living in a banana republic.

good old fashioned military coup.

[Radio_Guy]

22. I would welcome the military stand with us

The next protest we have in DC, whether Flag Day (upside down flags, all) or Independance Day, we need those in the military who are against the senseless killing of Arabs to stand with us. Imagine 100,000 in military uniform with 500,000 peaceful protestors ringing the White House.

[4freethinking]

20. We have worked

for the better part of 50 years in containing the nuclear genie. If these high ranking officers resign or are dismissed(or even arrested) and are replaced with people who are intent in carrying out the president's orders to use nuclear weapons the only sane thing left is to have the president removed from power by the military. If it reaches this point it must be done.