These people flying THEIR flag instead of the US flag! Disgraceful!

[Bluebear]

Oops, my bad. It's DIFFRENT if you're in South Carolina, not California. And not Mexican. These people are just "celebrating their heritage", not trying to start "America's Second Civil War", as FOX merrily accuses the immigration reform protestors.

[skooooo]

1. Yep - very valid point imo.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. Excellent!!!!!

:thumbsup: :hi:

[wryter2000]

Yup

You nailed it. I'm going to use that if I get the opportunity.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cspanlovr]

10. thanks for the links..

they were great. I love a good rant.

[cspanlovr]

4. Looks like a Klan rally

Southern heritage my ass.

[struggle4progress]

54. Looks like the GOP. Lincoln must be turnin in his grave. eom

[Bluebear]

56. Indeed. nt

[Rocknrule]

95. What's the difference?

[flyingfysh]

5. that is a flag of traitors

The people who originally flew that flag were guilty of treason against the United States. Treason is a sorry "heritage".

[Media_Lies_Daily]

23. Just curious, but couldn't the British say the same thing about...

...the flags used by the American colonists during the Revolutionary War?

Isn't our American heritage based on treason against the British Crown?

I think the only reason you posted your remark was to add yet another anti-Southern post to the huge pile that already exists. The U. S. Civil War ended 141 years ago...why do you want to keep fighting it?

[TechBear_Seattle]

26. If the US had lost the Revolution, then sure

Just like it would not be the flag of traitors if the Confederacy had won the Civil War. Winners write the history books, after all :hi:

[leftstreet]

27. made-in-china.com has great prices on flags of all nations

The Corporation is the true winner.

[CrispyQ]

71. Our flag.

[bdamomma]

73. very true

United Corporations of America, how true. Damn these guys.

[Blue_Tires]

93. that's from adbusters, right?

i remember that from like 5-6 years ago

[CrispyQ]

94. Yeah, I think that's where it originated.

Reclaim Democracy is selling it in their store now.

It needs to be updated, imo. It just doesn't tell the whole story without the Enron & Halliburton logos on there!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

41. Bingo.

[flyingfysh]

46. I grew up in the South

So I have every right to object to display of the Confederate flag. I've seen far too many years of racism and abuse of blacks.

True, if the Americans had lost the revolution, the leaders would have been hanged. But they went ahead anyway. The first American flag flown anywhere was within walking distance of my house (which wasn't there then). (I live in Massachusetts now)

[Robeysays]

81. I'm going to agree with the first post,,,,

treason is a sorry heritage.

[Virginian]

83. It's pile on the South day. Didn't you get the memo?

Every day seems to be pile on the South day.

We are supposed to be the inclusive party. That is unless the people you want to include live in one of the former states of the Confederacy.

While I wouldn't touch the Confederate flag with a ten foot pole, I see that some wish to make it a wedge issue. Those people usually have never been to the South Eastern corner of the US unless it was to drive through on the way to Disney World.

To OP:
If you want the people of the South to vote with you, you have to quit picking on them. If you push, they'll push back. The flag thing will quiet down if you quit making a wedge issue of it. The South was punished enough during Reconstruction. Ease up. My state is trying to turn Blue. It will be much easier for them to do so if they don't keep getting criticized by someone who's region did not suffer through war and Reconstruction.

[Bushy Being Born]

65. Yeah, they were guilty of treason

Just like Democrats are guilty of treason today, simply because the Republicans say so. :eyes:

Any treason during the War was committed by the Union, against the Constitution. As the saying goes, the War Between the States was when the North invaded America.

If Mexican immigrants want to wave the flag of their native country I have absolutely no problem with that. Rather than being disgraceful and disrespectful towards their adopted country it's a symbol of the diversity that is America. And so is waving the Stars & Bars or the Navy Jack. Someone remarked that the people in the OP image look to be GOPers. Well, it would be a shame if true, because as Dean said, they should all be voting for us.

[noahmijo]

6. Fucking traitors

Under that flag more Americans died than in any other war in American history.


Burn the motherfucker.

[FormerDittoHead]

25. self deleted n/t

[Clark2008]

66. Well, the adverse to that is true as well, you know.

The same amount of people died under the American flag, too, in the same war.

Honestly, getting one's panties in a wad over a flag - a piece of cloth - any flag - is silly.

[MnFats]

7. did they take Michael Savage's advice?

the wonderful patriot radio "commentator" suggested that white folk burn Mexican flags....
the concept of brotherly love in action.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

[IndyJones]

59. I don't listen to Savage - too whiney and never makes a valid point

but I'm guessing he mentioned that because in our area, the Mexican students were taking down the American flag, BURNING IT, and putting up the flag of Mexico. That didn't really win them many points around here. I mean, destroying property aside, that is probably just not a good way to win people over.

All students were banned from bringing any flags to school and that upset many of the students, but I can see why that ban was put into place.

[beatrice]

8. These people flying THEIR flag instead of the US flag! Disgraceful!

I used to live in the south and I mean I used too....

[blondeatlast]

11. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[Bluebear]

12. A first post welcome!

:hi:

[Pool Hall Ace]

13. Welcome to DU, beatrice!

:hi:

I don't want to turn this into a South-bashing thing, because I do recognize there are many kind people who are from the South and who live in the South, but since moving to North Carolina almost two years ago, I have noticed a higher tolerance for hate and racism.

Of course, I used to live in the blue bastion of Montgomery County, Maryland, so maybe I was just sheltered.

[Bluebear]

15. Absolutely. This is not an anti-south thread, just an anti-hypocrite one

The same people caterwauling about "another flag being flown on US soil" blah blah blah are the first ones to defend the stars and bars. :eyes:

[Reciprocity]

17. Too late.

"I don't want to turn this into a South-bashing thing"

[TallahasseeGrannie]

19. I moved to the South 28 years ago

and I have found it to be generally less racist than NJ.

But NJ is rather special.

[Bluebear]

55. Any state 28 years ago would be more racist.

I imagine at least some progress has been made everywhere, so that comparing a state's attitudes from almost three decades ago would be different, no?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

70. You're probably right

but it seems like yesterday to me. Up in NJ the "racism" was more about ethnicity. The Poles, the Jews, the Italians, the Ukranians, etc. And they all assume (and still do, because we go back every year and talk to family) that the south is just one big lynching waiting to happen.

But down here, where we are 50% African American, we don't have the "luxury" to exhibit that kind of racism because these folks are our bosses, our next door neighbors, our cops, our doctors, our kids' teachers, etc. They're working folks like we are.

[misanthrope]

85. Isn't all racism about ethnicity...

...since "race" technically doesn't exist?

[misanthrope]

87. I live in a Southern town...

...with similar ethnic proportions (50/50).

Here, blacks and whites don't live side-by-side much except in a couple of neighborhoods and most of the folks in those neighborhoods are all poor. In fact, a good portion of the white folks with means have moved outside the city limits to get away from black folks.

White doctors have a range of patients. Black doctors tend to have lower-income patients and a lot of them tend to be black.

Bosses? Sometimes, but there is still a glass ceiling in effect here for the most part.

In fact, a writer originally from Natchez MS (a town steeped in antebellum lore and ways) commented a few years ago that there is a lot more separation of the races here than in most other Southern cities.

Kind of sad when you consider we're one of the largest 'burgs on the Gulf Coast with one of the fastest growing metro areas in the nation.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

96. That is sad

My town has two universities, one of them historically black. We are also the state capital. I'd say the lower socio economic groups are about half white, half black. A LOT of poor white folks around, fishermen, etc. I've had more black bosses than white as a teacher. Not as many black teachers as there used to be, however. Some jobs are almost uniformly black, like hospitality, maintenance, etc. But these are good, solid jobs. I would say that the upper levels ... folks with big bucks...are white. Many, many black doctors with full mixed practices.

I think racism today is culturalism. Not even ethnicism. I have a dear friend who is black and a custodian of many years. She and I have more in common than I do with a white fundamentalist and she with a stereotypical urban black guy from the hood.

[misanthrope]

99. Again more differences...

...in our towns.

"My town has two universities, one of them historically black." We have one large university (one of the biggest in the state) that focuses chiefly on medical, one of the oldest Catholic colleges in the nation (although it tends to be a cloistered party school for upper-middle class kids), a traditionally black junior college and another junior college in the adjoining county.

"I'd say the lower socio economic groups are about half white, half black. A LOT of poor white folks around, fishermen, etc." We've got plenty of poor whites around and a lot tend to isolate themselves from blacks. It seems the old canard of "at least we're not n****rs" is still in play in a lot of ways.

"I've had more black bosses than white as a teacher. Not as many black teachers as there used to be, however." There are plenty of black teachers here in the public schools. The middle and upper classes here have a traditional animosity toward public education that has intensified since integration. The public education system here is nationally notorious.

"Some jobs are almost uniformly black, like hospitality, maintenance, etc." I've noticed that black-owned businesses tend to hire black folks and vice versa. As far as the hospitality business, you see white servers in the "white restaurants" and black servers in the "black restaurants." Same with a lot of the retail and other service-related industries. A lot of it has to do with the neighborhoods where the businesses are located.

"But these are good, solid jobs." There's not much "good" or "solid" about a lot of the employment around here. We have a per-capita income level that is weak. Residents falsely paint it by pointing to a low cost of living and horribly low property taxes. What they choose to ignore is not only the inflated sales taxes, but the way that property taxes normally fund municipal endeavors. Property taxes are so low here, the school board has had to scale back on repairs and even cut back the school year itself. However, when they threatened cut out football teams a few years ago, the public swarmed to the polls to vote in the most modest bump possible in the property tax.

[bigwillq]

21. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[EstimatedProphet]

9. Where's all the white hoods?

[blondeatlast]

14. You've done it again, BB. Excellent post. nt

[Pool Hall Ace]

16. Can anyone tell what that sign says

just above the hideous flag ?

[Bluebear]

18. "No King but Jesus" ? nt

[Burried News]

32. The humble carpenter

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.copticchurch.org/icons_of_the_lord_jesus.htm&h=825&w=637&sz=134&tbnid=gbxpO7c0xtSaZM:&tbnh=143&tbnw=110&hl=en&start=33&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsuffering%2BJesus%26start%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

[Hissyspit]

57. I think "No Kings But Jesus" n/t

[Terran1212]

20. Great post~!!!!

[YOY]

22. The amount of vacuous starts in that little gathering...

It's a wonder any of them can breath.

[TechBear_Seattle]

24. Quite literally, a flag of treason

It was, after all, flown by people out to destroy the United States of America.

[Burried News]

28. Perfect. I only see three old glories. nt

[Reciprocity]

29. Can you post the link to the story of this picture?

I mean where these guys protesting to bring back slavery are something?

[Bluebear]

33. It's from MSN group "Southern by the Grace of God"

http://www.msnusers.com/SouthernbytheGraceofGod

I believe the story would be a pro-confederate flag rally in South Carolina, circa 2000. There were calls to boycott tourism in SC until they took the confederate flag down from the capitol:

'Heritage not hate' is claim, but racists abound

In January, a rally in honor of the Confederate flag in Columbia, South Carolina, drew over 6,000 people. The organizer of the event, the South Carolina Heritage coalition, said it was defending "heritage not hate." But the coalition included white supremacists in its ranks.

Joining with groups like the United Daughters of the Confederacy and the League of the South were the Council of Conservative Citizens, a racist group that portrays itself as "mainstream," and Kirk Lyons, a veteran white supremacist who heads the Southern Legal Resource Center.

The rally was meant to counter a call by the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) for a tourism boycott of South Carolina until the state takes the Confederate flag down from its statehouse.

During a speech at the pro-flag rally, Republican South Carolina State Sen. Arthur Ravenal referred to the NAACP as the "National Association of Retarded People." The flag-waving crowd loudly applauded him.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=294

[Reciprocity]

38. Thanks for the info.

As a southern American, from Irish ancestry I know all to well what can happen when folks start dragging out their "old glories" and marching down streets to rub individuals nose in long lost battles. No one wins.

[northernsoul]

30. the flag of a nation that attacked the United States nonetheless

Remember Fort Sumter anyone?

[DeaconBlues]

37. The confederate battle flag is a traitor's flag

but Americans were killed by people flying the Mexican flag too. If we're going to go back to the 1860's, we have to be fair and go back to the 1840's as well.

[Bridget Burke]

68. But we started the Mexican War to sieze their land....

NOT to keep the Union together. And the conflict over whether tha land we got from Mexico would be slave or free was a contributing factor to our Civil War.

[DeaconBlues]

92. we did not start the war against Mexico

The Mexicans declared war first, and fired on Americans first. I'm sure that both sides did much to instigate war, but the idea that the U.S. started the war is not accurate.

[northernsoul]

84. who shot first?

We know that the C.S.A. took the first shot at the United States... I honestly don't recall who initiated the agression in the Mexican-American War.

[DeaconBlues]

91. Mexico declared war first

Mexico insisted that Texas was still part of Mexico, even though Texas and Mexico had signed a peace treaty and Texas had been independent for ten years. When the U.S. annexed Texas, the Mexican government stated that this was an act of war. The Mexican army then sent an army to attack a U.S. garrison that was north of the Rio Grande. This caused America to declare war. So, the Mexicans shot first.


An excellent summary is presented here: http://www.dmwv.org/mexwar/history/concise.htm

[seabeyond]

31. i am seeing this more and more in my area. flags, shirts

hats, stickers and the other daya damn cell phone painted as a confederate flag. repugs certainly have validated hate and bigotry letting all feel comfortable boldly putting it in our face today

[malaise]

34. Great post n/t

[stepnw1f]

35. Sign of Treason

And they all vote GOP too! I'm glad they show their stripes every now-and-then, so we all know who they are. It's a free country!

[Greybnk48]

36. Terrorists; subversive bastards. Lock up these criminals!! n/t

[AtomicKitten]

39. Excellent point, sir/madam. I salute you.

[theHandpuppet]

40. You're right -- I think it *is* disgraceful

And there are plenty of folks on DU who have shared those same sentiments regarding the celebration of that flag.

[Disturbed]

43. Confederate Flag is a symbol of Southern Heritage?

What exactly is that Heritage?

[theHandpuppet]

53. I'm not sure you correctly interpreted my post

So I'm going to assume your question is a rhetorical one.

[NNN0LHI]

42. Its OK. Those are Bush voters so that makes it alright n/t

[suziedemocrat]

44. touche!

[chat_noir]

45. yeah, it's so much more patriotic to fly those CHINESE-MADE American flags

:eyes:

[johnfunk]

47. Now THERE is a flag I'd LOVE to burn!

Burn, baby, burn!

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. Well considering how much we value our US flag,

:rofl: :rofl:

[NJ Democrats]

49. Yup, I know

I'm in NC looking for a new house because I'm moving and I passed a house with the Confederate flag, and I got really fucking pissed off. I was like, Why the hell are they flying a flag that is the flag of a REBELLION aganist out country. It is bullshit and should be outlawed.

[Canuckistanian]

50. That's unamerican. There's only ONE flag in the USA

And these secessionists are calling Mexican-Americans traitors?

[Raine]

51. Treasonous flag

that implies they don't want to be part of America.

[jukes]

52. i FULLY support the right of

southern-apologosists to fly the final flag indicative of their heritage: the white rectangle of surrender, defeat, and shame.

[Skittles]

58. exellent, PT

:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KitchenWitch]

61. Welcome to DU, enjoy your stay

[killbotfactory]

63. You mean besides the fact we took over a large portion of their land?

Do you think we gained all the land we have, from sea to shining sea, through osmosis?

[Bluebear]

64. "Ummmmmmmmmm am I just Stupid?"

Know thyself.

[Bridget Burke]

69. They are NOT flying the Stars & Bars but the Battle Flag.

Texas was part of Mexico longer than it was part of the Confederacy. "Six Flags over Texas" is more than an amusement park.

Mexico has had a lot to do with American history & the relationship will continue. The Confederacy is over.

[Mr_Spock]

62. Excellent, excellent point

These cretins want to fly the flag of the first civil war while they complain about a possible second one :rofl:

So simple minded are they...

[Clark2008]

67. It's a piece of cloth

Whoopee.

:eyes:

(Just so you know, I think the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag is silly, too. I'll pledge allegiance to my country, and happily, but to a piece of cloth? Why?)

[The Straight Story]

72. It is red/white/blue at least :) (nt)

[bdamomma]

74. this regime

continues to divide the American people. The Mexican people are the new slaves or scapegoats of this administration.

[sofa king]

75. You could start pissin' at the top of those steps...

...And break a redneck's heart every step of the way down.

[BlooInBloo]

76. As with so much else.... IOKIYoW

It's OK If You're White...

Because then it's "heritage" and not racism or invasion or treason.

[spanone]

77. That is a million times scarier than the 'other' immigrants.

[Beelzebud]

78. VERY good point!!!!!!!!!!!!

[d_b]

79. Kick-ass post!

[autorank]

80. Recommended--terrific. I thought you meant SC;) n/t

[file83]

82. The only flag that we should all be waving is a RED FLAG over D.C.....

...for Bush's treason against our nation. Pick a reason.

[Steve A Play]

86. LOL! Damn, you got me!

Great point, kicked and recommended! :rofl: :thumbsup:

[in_cog_ni_to]

88. PERFECT example of their hypocrisy.

That sure doesn't look like the American Flag to me.

Would you look at all those bigots?!

[geniph]

89. I've got my own personal issues with the battle flag

but, so long as they don't mind me burning it, I suppose we're okay and all.

There's a reason that flying the swastika is still illegal in Germany. I can just barely see the "heritage" argument if what they were flying was the Bonnie Blue Flag, but that flag is not the flag of the C.S.A. - that's the battle flag. The flag under which Americans on both sides bled and died.

[Sunkiss BlueStar]

90. Amen ta DAT!

Let the Congregation say ANNEX! :headbang: righteous

[tabasco]

97. No wonder these people love Bush so much!

He's a traitor too!

[Alamom]

98. I believe this event happened 6 years ago..... The SPLC in

Montgomery, Alabama has an incredible amount of information on current issues, hate crimes and events or "movements" that are damaging and dangerous to this country and individuals as this thread continues to not "South Bash."


You might want to check out the Chalcedon Foundation, the ultra-fundamentalist Christian ministry founded in California by the late, R.J. Rushdoony.


Casting Stones
An Army of radical Christian Reconstructionists is preparing a campaign to convert conservative fundamentalist churches.

"We are authorized by God to challenge all that is not godly!" Rushdoony thundered. "God is angry with the wicked every day, and the sins of the wicked deserve the infliction of God's wrath in this life as well as the life hereafter!"

Rushdoony was the keynote preacher at a symposium held in September at the Chalcedon Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Ga., to observe the 40th anniversary of the Chalcedon Foundation, the ultra-fundamentalist Christian ministry founded in California by Rushdoony's late father, R.J. Rushdoony. The elder Rushdoony was a racist and Holocaust denier who took his group's name from a medieval council of bishops that proclaimed the subservience of all nations and governments to God.

The Chalcedon Foundation has since become the fountainhead for Christian Reconstructionism, an obscure but growing branch of Christian fundamentalism whose adherents believe the world should be "reconstructed" so that everyone in it lives under strict Old Testament moral codes imposed by local theocracies.

Rushdoony, Jr. is alive and well and spreading hate NOW.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=591


Intelligence Report
Winter 2005
SPLC


OR, Chris Simcox from Los Angeles/NY

Minuteman leader has troubled past

It was Sept. 13, 2001. Simcox, by his own later account to reporters, was obsessed with the recent terrorist attacks. His phone messages and conversations with relatives were growing increasingly bizarre. He talked endlessly about stockpiling firearms and apocalyptic premonitions. Los Angeles was doomed, he said. Then, on Sept. 30, he fled the city for good.


Four years later, Simcox is at the height of his great adventure. He is president of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, a nationwide, anti-immigration vigilante organization with armed "citizen border patrols" in Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas, along with a smattering of states on the Canadian border where Minutemen have deployed to protect America from northern invaders.

A frequent guest on the Fox News show "Hannity & Colmes," Simcox travels the country giving paid lectures at anti-immigration conferences where he receives standing ovations and accolades from other celebrity extremists.
>
Though his core supporters are anti-immigrant extremists, Simcox's political influence presently extends far beyond the fringe. More than 20 U.S. congressmen attended a Minuteman rally he hosted in September in Washington, D.C. And six of those politicians actually signed up with his organization, strapped on handguns and participated in Minuteman patrols in October, along with Arizona Republican gubernatorial candidate Don Goldwater, nephew of archconservative one-time presidential contender Barry Goldwater ("Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice").

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?pid=166&site_area=1


Intelligence Report
Winter 2005
SPLC


Or, Paul Cameron, Family Research Center, Colorado

The Fabulist
Anti-gay researcher Paul Cameron's falsehoods are well known. The incredible thing is the people who still cite them.

Under the guise of chairman of the Family Research Institute, his statistical chop shop in Colorado Springs, Colo., Cameron has published dozens upon dozens of research studies that offer homophobes a supposedly scientific justification for their prejudices by invariably concluding that gays and lesbians are dangerous and diseased perverts.

"Homosexuality is an infectious appetite with personal and social consequences," is how Cameron describes the phenomenon he studies. "It is like the dog that gets a taste for blood after killing its first victim and desires to get more victims thereafter with a ravenous hunger."

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=587

Or, The Nativist

One of them says he'd like to bring nuclear weapons to the border. Another vows to stop the alleged Mexican invasion of Idaho. Several have links to white supremacist hate groups; others are given to dire warnings of horrible diseases, "barbaric" practices, and secret Latino conspiracies to "reconquer" the American Southwest. These are the nativists -- the new crop of activists who are driving the movement that exploded last spring with the Minuteman Project in Arizona, a month-long effort by armed civilians to seal the border with Mexico. Along with a whole array of media enablers (see Broken Record and Nativism On Air), they have barged into the nation's consciousness with remarkable success. Some of them, like Minuteman co-founder Jim Gilchrist, have made attempts to win high political office. Others have contented themselves with trying to build a mass movement. Not all those who have joined the movement are extremists -- many are legitimately concerned about the ability of the nation to absorb large numbers of immigrants, particularly the undocumented. But one thing seems clear:
A dangerous mix of nativist intolerance, armed and untrained civilians, and wild-eyed conspiracy theories could easily explode into violence.

Intelligence Report
Winter 2005
SPLC

These guys are all spewing their venom NOW and people are listening and there's more. With all the issues & problems we have going on at this moment, I really don't get all of the attention a 6 year old story has garnered, unless we just have to clump & bash Southern people every once in a while to feel good about everything else......

:shrug:

[Bluebear]

100. "we just have to clump & bash Southern people every once in a while"

"These guys are all spewing their venom NOW and people are listening and there's more. With all the issues & problems we have going on at this moment, I really don't get all of the attention a 6 year old story has garnered, unless we just have to clump & bash Southern people every once in a while to feel good about everything else......"

I am sorry you took it as an anti-Southern thread. It was meant to be an anti-hypocrisy thread.

Are you suggesting there have been no pro-Confederate flag rallies since 2001? I mean, there are photos of the Minutemen border patrol with the confederate flag and all sorts of more "modern" examples if it will make you feel better. The point was, such a hue and cry about people DARING to fly the Mexican flag "on our soil": how many of those types may have enjoyed the rally pictured?