Most human beings 'natural born slaves'

[dogday]

IN A counterintuitive paper, Malcolm Heath, of Leeds University, defended Aristotle’s politically incorrect view that some people are natural born slaves.

Aristotle argued that the majority of human beings could and should be enslaved because they are naturally slaves.

Aristotelians usually cough nervously and move on past such passages.

Professor Heath argues that Aristotle was not saying that natural slaves lack the distinctive human capacity for reason. They are not subhuman. Natural slaves may be extremely creative and intelligent. But they simply have a defect that prevents them recognising the way to live a good life.




http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2127197,00.html

[seemslikeadream]

1. We Bring Democracy To The Fish

A very good friend sent me this the other day

"We Bring Democracy To The Fish" by Donald Hall

It is unacceptable that fish prey on each other.
For their comfort and safety, we will liberate them
into fishfarms with secure, durable boundaries
that exclude predators. Our care will provide
for their liberty, health, happiness, and nutrition.
Of course all creatures need to feel useful.
At maturity the fish will discover their purposes.

[Warpy]

2. Aristotle said a lot of incredibly stupid things

Another was that semen contained seeds of tiny, perfect, male human beings called "homunculi," reducing the role of women to that of animated flowerpot, a view that is still held within the Roman Catholic Church. They decided, rather belatedly, that women did have souls only because they wanted to be able to send us to hell.

He needs to be consigned to the same "dumb things smart men believed" pile that Sigmund Freud is sitting on.

[cynatnite]

7. Well, I do like the part where we women can send men to hell

But, hey, that's the woman in me. :rofl: Aristotle had nothing to do with it.

[Warpy]

9. You read it wrong, sister

Those old boys (council of Trent, I think) only decided women had souls so they could send women to hell.

[cynatnite]

15. Oops...

Thanks for the correction :blush:

[SmokingJacket]

16. I wouldn't dismiss Aristotle because of a few bad ideas.

We owe a lot to him -- like the scientific method.

Then again -- I enjoy reading Freud, too. I *love* Civilization and its Discontents, as well as The Psychopathology of Everyday Life, even if I don't buy it. He was a great creative mind, if a bit of whackball.

[Selatius]

3. Is Heath saying people who are ignorant are natural born slaves?

I think we can make a case that a good number of people who still support Bush might qualify. They fall in line and take orders without question

Ein Volk!
Ein Reich!
Ein Fuehrer!
Sig-heil!

:sarcasm:

[Finder]

4. Not a fan of Aristotle, but...

I think his argument was akin to the "Leaders vs Followers" in today's language.

His natural born slaves are the sheeple we often discuss.

[sui generis]

6. agreed - he was using the vernacular and social structures

of his time, which were not anathema at the time.

Thinking for yourself is expensive in energy costs, and you run the risk of being wrong, or ridiculed, or even hated and shunned.

It happens to most of us one time or another, and that's just on wonderful progressive, open minded DU! Imagine how piss-ass scary the real world must be.

Aristotle had it right in principle, if not the details.

[noonwitch]

5. Some people are beaten into that mentality by abusive parents

I'm on the nurture side of the whole nature/nurture argument, for the most part.

I think that there are some people who were abused by cruel parents who do develop the slave-like mentality. Sometimes, they grow out of it, sometimes they don't.

It's like S/M or B/D-most people who are on the submissive side of it were sexually abused as kids (or were raised catholic-just kidding, although read Anne Rice's dirty books and you'll see what I mean). They have complex reactions of guilt and shame over having sexual feelings, so fantasizing about being tied up or forced to have sex relieves them of that guilt for what are normal, healthy drives.

Not that psychology is a cookie-cutter thing with the same actions resulting in the same behavior in every human being, but there are tendencies and stressors that are frequently related to one's developmental history.

[rman]

8. The "defect" is with an unscrupulous few who hoard wealth and power

so that they can live a good life - at the expense of the "slaves".

This is right up the neocon's street.

[Jim__]

10. It's hard to escape the commonly held ideas of your time.

In Aristotle's time, slavery was common and accepted. Apparently, Aristotle was unable to see this in the same light that we see it.

How many things that we all believe will be resoundingly condemned by people 1000 years from now? Our treatment of animals? Our workaholic culture? War? Nationalism? How many things that we would never believe could be wrong today, will be the hallmarks of our barbarity in the future?

[misanthrope]

14. You got a chuckle out of me...

...with this: "How many things that we all believe will be resoundingly condemned by people 1000 years from now?"

I think it's a strong likelihood people won't be around in 1000 years, and if they are, they'll likely be completely ignorant of our civilization.

[Tyler Durden]

11. I don't go THAT far, But voting for NEOCONS in my opinion...

...is proof positive that some of our citizens are too fucking feeble in logic to vote.

[KittyWampus]

12. We are all enslaved by Materialism until the Light of Reason

is pointed in the direction of Intuition and we begin to look within.

Socrates and Plato and Pythagorus... all approaced Life and Science from the perspective of Idealism.

That's there is an actual level of Reality where abstract ideas exist as surely as our physical bodies are sitting now typing.

[kiki]

13. "Freedom is something only the strong can have...

...I'd rather have a dog collar than freedom!"

(A squazillion dollars to anyone who can source that quote without Googling it.)

[Swede]

17. What a pathetic peripatetic.

nt