Seeing immigrants march in the streets.....

[skooooo]

...is one of the more positive things I've seen in the last few years. They are the future of America, and I hope they can fix some of the problems. I'm tired of racists worrying about American "turning brown," and people speaking Spanish. So what!? You ignorant )#@($*%#)$( if you weren't so ignorant, you might learn something.

Just a rant.

[Maestro]

1. 500,000 marched in Dallas

waving American flags demanding justice. You should have seen the counter protest. It looked like about 20 redneck freepers with hygiene problems. It was hilarious. BTW, they were all demanding justice and scared of the draconian House bill. I saw no one asking for a free ride.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. There was an idiot freeper at our rally in KC

who somehow got up on the stage and held a sign up that said

"I am a republican and I support LEGAL immigration"

I was talking to one of our parents I ran into there and we both noticed this sign holder. She said she had just registered to vote as a Democrat. She wanted to know which Republican politicians had done anything that benefited Hispanics. I told her I honestly didn't know. She said when her citizenship became official recently, she had learned enough to realize the Democrats were the party she wanted to join.

[Der Blaue Engel]

2. I agree

They clearly care more about being an American than at least half its citizens. Maybe they'll save our asses from complete extinction.

[MadMaddie]

3. And a good rant at that....

I agree it is a positive light in vast darkness....

These marches could be the catalyst that we have needed and have waited for...could you imagine if we joined them....

[joemurphy]

5. I was at the Indy immigration march...

I'd guess maybe 15,000 marchers, which was small potatoes by Dallas standards but an enormous thing under the Indianapolis equation.

There were lots of native Americans marching with the Hispanics. Lots of American wives married to them and lots of US born kids.

I saw one (1) ... yes, just one (1) "protester". He was an American sitting on a ledge as the Hispanics marched by. He was holding a sign saying "Fix our borders". Not one Hispanic had a disparaging word for him.

There were TV cameras all over the guy. I listened to him get interviewed by something like six camera crews in succession. Interestingly, the guy just said something like "I have nothing against these people. I just want to make sure no terrorists get in."

After saying this six times in succession to six different crews, the media people lost interest.

This was the extent of the Lou Dobbs opposition to the march.

I'm sure there are locals grousing about the march at home; talking about how all the Mexicans want a free ride; and how they're ruining the American middle class. But they weren't there at the march.

The Hispanics were the story in Indianapolis. People just showing up because, maybe for the first time, they had an opportunity to get in the public eye and tell America what they want. And what they want is an opportunity to be normal Americans. That's all.

[MadMaddie]

6. They want to achieve the American Dream....

I don't blame them...many Americans still want to achieve the American dream....

They are here and they are contributing to the American society...we have to find a way to give them a chance to become citizens that is fair across the board...

I seriously think the Repugs miscalculated this wedge issue and it is backfiring on them...

Thanks for participating in the march....

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. At our March 19 anti war rally, there was ONE pro war idiot

who stood across the street holding a sign written on a piece of cardboard. We all laughed until we got home, turned on the news and saw him featured on ALL 4 local channels. :grr:

[EFerrari]

20. Thank you, joemurphy. I didn't even know there were Hispanics

in Indianapolis.

But, I agree with your assessment. Just for once, people are trying to say what they need. That sure doesn't happen every day.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

30. I live in Indy

but work on the North side so didn't get a chance to see the protests. The Star this morning says 20,000 people. That truly is amazing in this city!! I wish I could have been there.

[rzemanfl]

4. Why is it that immigrants can raise thousand of marchers, but

* can steal two elections and born-here Americans sit on their fat asses and do nothing?

[joemurphy]

8. At the Indy march, I asked a couple of my Mexican friends

who the leaders of the march were. When I asked them this, they both shrugged their shoulders and said they didn't know.

Was it the radio? One said he didn't know.

Was it the priests. One said maybe. He said he thought the priests at St. Mary's had something to do with it.

But it was pretty apparent that most were there because the word about it had simply gotten round and the Mexicans realized it was important and that they should be a part of it.

[Iris]

12. A Latino Woodstock!

[joemurphy]

14. Actually that was the sort of feel to it.

[Iris]

27. yes - I was thinking more the word of mouth spread of the event

or at least the non-major news outlet spread of the word.

[EFerrari]

22. LOL!

:rofl:

[Zookeeper]

21. In Minnesota, the Catholic church and other groups...

chartered buses to round up Mexican citizens and take them to the Capitol to rally.

[Bridget Burke]

33. Ah--Talking Point #4 in the Reasons the Protests are Bad....

You should have stayed with TP#1--"Fair Wages for the American Worker." But--"American Worker" sounds a little Commie/Pinko, doesn't it? It might lead to a higher minimum wage for all. And stronger Unions--can't have that.

The latest TP is: "It's A Popish Plot." Actually, it's not really new.

[Zookeeper]

41. Why are you dismissing it as a talking point...

when it's true? I just answered a question.

"'This is wonderful!" said Sister Mary Ellen Foster, who stood on the steps of the cathedral. "I stand with them. That's what the Gospel's about for me. To be with those who do not get a fair shake.'"

"Organizer Estela Villagran was visibly pleased with the turnout. 'Everybody is here. All the countries,' she said. 'Mexico, Ecuador, El Salvador, Colombia, Venezuela. We've been working the radios all week to get them here.'"

"Villagran said buses arrived from more than 30 Catholic parishes throughout Minnesota, as well as seven buses from Worthington and four from Northfield where many illegal immigrants live and work."

Perhaps it makes you uncomfortable that the Catholic church was involved, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

startribune.com
"Marchers seek dignity for immigrants." April 10, 2006

Edited to add link.

[Bridget Burke]

42. Perhaps I'm not uncomfortable that the Catholic Church was involved.

I don't see a "Popish Plot" behind the Protests, though.

Watch out, the Spanish Inquisition is lurking, ready to pounce1

[Ex Lion Tamer]

31. I hope it was Father Michael at St. Mary's

He married my wife and me. He's a wonderful priest and committed to his Hispanic parishioners. He represents all that is good about the Church (in the face of much that is bad about it).

[prairierose]

16. Exactly, as I was watching those pictures...

on the news I kept asking myself why there are so many people in the streets for this issue but so many other very important issues get very few people into the streets. Stolen elections and loss of jobs, our young people dying in Iraq for lies and the profits of Halliburton and Carlyle, who knows how many Iraqis dying for the same reasons. These are issues that should be driving people to the streets, yet we do not see it. We see these huge crowds for an issue that distracts from the fact that the bush administration is coming apart at the seams along with our economy.

Think of the "good" citizens who will be appalled at these numbers. Who will be frightened by the reality of how many people are in this country illegally. This shows graphically that there is a fairly large problem but it distracts from the major problems that should be addressed.

Lost my train of thought but that is the gist of it.

[EFerrari]

23. I see what you mean but on the other hand, the people in the streets

live a shadow life -- or, the best life they can live in the shadows. It has impacted them every single rotten day -- maybe their parents as well -- for a long, long time.

I don't know about the composition of these marches but my Mexican friends are quiet about their trials. They don't complain but put their heads down and work. I can only imagine that being at risk of being labeled felons and worse was about the last straw.

[StellaBlue]

7. my thoughts, from the mouths of the Indigo Girls

My friends they wash the windows
And they shine in the sun
They tell me wake up early in the morning sometime
See what a beautiful job we've done

I say lets put on some tunes
Sing a long and dolittle all day
Go down to the riverside take off our shoes
And wash these sins away

And the river said
La la la it said shame on you
And the river said
La la la it said shame on you

I go down to Chicano City Park
Cause it makes me feel so fine
And when the weeds go down you can see up close
In the dead of the winter time

But when the summer comes everything's in bloom
And you wouldn't know it's there
And the white folks like to pretend its not
But their music's in the air

And you can hear 'em singing
La la la they said shame on you
You can feel e'm dancing
La la la they said shame on you

My friend Tanner she says you know
Me and Jesus, were of the same heart
The only thing that keeps us distant
Is that I keep fuckin' up

I said come on down to Chicano City Park
And wash your blues away
The beautiful ladies walk right by
You know I never know what to say

And they'll be singing
Oo la la la la la la la la shame on you
And they'll be dancing
Ooo la la la they said shame on you
Shame on you

Let's go road block trippin' in the middle of the night
Up in Gainesville town
There'll be blue lights flashin' down the long dirt road
When they ask us to step out

They say, we been looking for illegal immigrants
Can we check your car
I say, you know it's funny
I think we were on the same boat back in 1694

And I said
Oo la la la la la la la la shame on you
They'll be dancing
La la la I said shame on you
I said
Oo la la la la la la la la la la shame on you
Shame on you la la
La la la la la shame on you
I said
I said
La la la shame on you
Ill be dancing
And they'll be singing
La la la I said shame on you
Shame on you

[azndndude]

9. I am Native American and I was marching with them

I told a couple of racist with "Go Home" signs that they should go gome! This is Indian Country!

[joemurphy]

11. LOL

[EFerrari]

24. LOL! Thank you!

:)

[NNN0LHI]

32. That is a great thing you did

I admire the hell out of you.

Don

[Iris]

10. my topic of the day - the idea that people should be proficient speakers

of English in order to gain citizenship . . . coming from native speakers who aren't even proficient themselves.

[joemurphy]

15. LOL. I'd like to see Bush take the citizenship exam too.

[alarimer]

13. I had an argument with my boss about this today

he wants to eliminate the 14th Amendment requirement that anyone born here is a citizen. He is normally a progressive guy (well- fairly so anyway). I don't get this. I get that illegal immigration is a problem but, frankly, I just see it as the wedge issue of the day. i don't know the anwers but it isn't eliminating the 14th Amendment.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

28. So what does he propose as citizen criteria? Landowner? SLAVEowner?

[alarimer]

37. He doesn't have a clue

He said he was born in Germany (to American parents- father was career Army) and he is not a German citizen. So I am guessing parents would have to show their own birth certificates when a child is born to establish citizenship. I think that could create problems; for example, my sister was born in Puerto Rico, which is part of the US, but she had a hell of a time getting her birth certificate translated because it was in Spanish. I guess the school or whoever needed it didn't believe she was a citizen.

[EFerrari]

18. "Si Adelita se fuera con otro" -- a song from the war

I agree. Seeing those kids care so much makes me happy. I hope they all stay safe. They are beautiful.

[Zookeeper]

25. What makes you think they can fix the problems of this...

country, if they can't fix the problems in their own?

No one, not even noble "brown people" has a monopoly on the truth. People who argue for special privileges for Hispanics strike me as racist and classist because I never see the same level of concern for still under-educated and unemployed African-Americans, Native Americans, and poor white Americans from chronically economically depressed areas of the country. Not to mention the LEGAL immigrants who are refugees from violence and genocide. And plenty of them come from countries with a much lower standard of living than Mexico.

Those are the people for whom wages are dropping due to the huge influx of people willing to work for slave wages.

There are clearly a lot of DUer's who can afford to be "groovy" about other Americans' job and wage security. I would point out, though, the second and third generation of these illegal workers are not going to be satisfied with low wages, poor working conditions, service and agricultural jobs. Their children may be competing for YOUR job.

I believe it was Paul Krugman (the liberal economist) who, after study, decided the only ones profiting from illegal immigration are business and the illegal workers, themselves.

[Iris]

29. That's ridiculous.

Why are you assuming that people who are not willling to denounce latinos are simply ignorning other minorities and the poor.

From my standpoint, the Republicans are using this group of people to keep part of their based stirred up. I'm not going to jump on board a hate wagon beause the Republicans need a scapegoat to cover up their horrid policies that are the REAL problem.

[Zookeeper]

38. I'm "assuming" that because the DUers....

who are being the most vocal in advocating for illegal immigrants never acknowledge their real life effect on other minorities and the poor. When that issue is raised, it's always dismissed by saying we need to reform our economic system, government and corporations. Sure, but how many decades is that going to take? That is not helpful to Americans of all races who are deep financial weeds right now.

[Bridget Burke]

36. So--slave wages are bad & so are good wages.

Because the "noble brown people" are involved? (Oops--that mask slipped again! Next, you'll be complaining about accusations of xenophobia!)

Since you're so worried about the American Worker--what is your Union doing?

If other groups of US society are so unhappy with their lot--why don't THEY protest?

[Zookeeper]

39. I don't have a problem with the second and third...

generation of these immigrants getting better jobs and pay. In fact, I hope that the current group of Hispanic workers will unionize for better wages and working conditions. I just think some DUers who are quite cavalier about other people's jobs, will start complaining if they are affected. I read one post that said having low wage illegal workers is good because it creates more IT jobs.

The "noble brown people" comment is my snarky way of pointing out the mushy sentimentality I'm seeing around here. I'm reading a patronizing "noble-savage" attitude that is romanticizing real, complex, intelligent people (the illegal immigrants). Yes, employers are ultimately responsible for this problem, but I don't buy the idea that the illegal workers themselves are incapable of understanding the consequences of their actions.

The illegal workers I know are smart enough to grasp the wage concerns, but it's safer to think that those concerns are due to racism or the "laziness" of American workers.

I don't know why it's relevant to this discussion, but I am no longer a Union member because I work at home.

[imlost]

26. I marched today in San Jose, ca.

It was a great thing. I was holding up my "Impeach Bush" sign.

[bdamomma]

35. very good

I am glad you were out in the streets, did you see anyone else with Impeach Bush signs, we could combine our cause with theirs.

[bdamomma]

34. Why don't we

combine our efforts with the immigrants and get this regime out of office, why aren't we in the streets with them. Power in numbers.

[goodhue]

40. Yes it is amazing.

Joining in the streets is a remarkable experience. I attended Sunday's rally at state capitol in St. Paul, MN. It was probably the biggest political rally I've ever been to with about 40,000 people. And I've been to quite a few rallies at capitol in St. Paul.