Situation in Iraq could not be worse, "The Country Will Not Survive"!

[leftchick]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/266162_iraqsurvival11.html


BAGHDAD, Iraq -- A cruel and bloody civil war has started in Iraq, a country that President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair promised to free from fear and establish democracy. I have been visiting Iraq since 1978, but for the first time, I am becoming convinced that the country will not survive.

Three suicide bombers disguised themselves as women Friday and, with explosives hidden by long black cloaks, killed 79 people and wounded more than 160 when they blew themselves up in a Shiite mosque in the capital. One bomber came through the women's security checkpoint at the Buratha mosque in northern Baghdad and detonated explosives just as worshippers were leaving at the end of Friday prayers.

<snip>

I have been covering the war in Iraq ever since it began three years ago and I have never seen the situation so grim. More than a week ago, I was in the northern city of Mosul, protected by 3,000 Kurdish soldiers, but even so it was considered too dangerous to send out patrols in daytime. It is safer at night because of a curfew.

In March alone, the U.S. military said 1,313 people were killed in sectarian attacks. Many bodies, buried in pits or thrown in the rivers, are never found.

The real figure is probably twice as high. All over the country people are on the move as Sunnis and Shiites flee each other's areas.

:cry:



Iraqi Shiite women weep as their families pack their belongings after being ordered to leave by unidentified militants Monday April 10, 2006, near Buhriz, a former Saddam stronghold about 60 kilometers (35 miles) north of Baghdad, Iraq. Growing violence in the neighborhoods of Baghdad as well as other Iraqi cities has driven thousands to abandon their homes to live in camps in relatively safer areas.(AP Photo/Mohammed Hamed)

[lonestarnot]

1. I disagree with the first line. "has started" sounds like "just now"

It's been "started" for nearly over 1 year now.

[leftchick]

2. I agree

either way it sucks. These poor people. :(

[lonestarnot]

3. Certainly.

This does suck, and we need an icon for sucking! :sucks:

[Jayhawk Lib]

4. It is up to these poor people

to rid the country of these cowardly insurgents that are using the suicide bombers and ied weapons. It is up to the majority of the Iraqis to do this and if it takes civil war, so be it. The majority do not like these bastards and it is up to them to rid their country of them...

[leftchick]

6. these bastards?

which ones?

[Jayhawk Lib]

7. The insurgents that are

sending in the suicide bombers and the ones setting off the ieds. Those are the bastards that are killing our soldiers and the innocent Iraqi people. The biggest majority of the Iraqis want peace and democracy in their country.

I know you do not see much of it in the msm but by far the biggest majority of the people are glad Saddam is gone and want democracy to work. My information comes from several family members who have been over there in the military and civilians working to rebuild Iraq.

They all say the msm is not giving us an accurate picture of what it is really like over there.

[leftchick]

8. so fill me in

Are you saying what Mr. Cockburn is reporting here is wrong? What is really happening?

[Jayhawk Lib]

19. I am just telling you

what the people that I know are saying. My nephew is going back in about 3 weeks as a contractor. He is quite adamant that we did the right thing and are still doing the right thing. He is a democrat who voted for Gore and then voted for Bush's 2nd term. He says he is still a Democrat but disagrees with them on this matter.

[Marnieworld]

24. "but disagrees with them on this matter."

Disagrees with Democrats? So all Democrats think we didn't "do the right thing"? What did we do exactly? What are we doing? What is so right about it?

Disagrees with Democrats? Which ones? Clinton? Murtha? Kerry? Lieberman? All democrats and yet have different opinions. How odd that your nephew just lumps them all together considering that their are several opinions and strategies between them. I guess maybe the mercenaries may not be as informed as you imagine.

[Jayhawk Lib]

28. He is not a mercenary.

He is an electronics and computer technician.

He is helping the Iraqis rebuild their country. Believe it or not they are making progress. Sometimes it is 2 steps forward and 1 step back.

The cell phone and satellite television business over there is booming now. More and more businesses are setting up to network their computers. Schools are being built.

What we always hear on the news is the bad stuff (make no mistake bad stuff is happening) but more good things are happening than bad. Good news does not get reported just like here in the states. We always hear about the bad stuff.

Is he making a lot of money? Sure he is. You could not pay me enough to go over there but he is young (30) and unattached and likes adventure.

[Marnieworld]

30. pardon me

War profiteer.

[Jayhawk Lib]

31. Helping the good people of Iraq

rebuild. He has skills. They have a need. He is a long way from home. It is in a hazardous location. Call it what you want but he is making a big contribution to make life better for the Iraqis. He is doing more than sitting on his ass whining and complaining.

[Don Claybrook]

9. oh...you have a cousin who knows this one guy who was there

and the liberal media isn't reporting what your cousin's friend saw, including school starting on time in some places and 5 unbroken hours of electricity in on Baghdad neighborhood.

Yes, JL, these are indeed the bastards who are killing our soldiers and killing innocent Iraqis. And, by the way, we're the bastards who killed the insurgents' loved ones, and we're the ones who insured that they'd be unemployed and restless and angry. THERE WOULD BE NO INSURGENCY if it weren't for the United States of America. None. We knew this would happen. And we did it anyway. Say what you want; think what you want. But this one is our fault

[Jayhawk Lib]

17. Grandson, son in law, nephew

have all been there in military or contractor capacity. They all have the same thing to say.
As a matter of fact my nephew will be going back in about 3 weeks as a contractor.

I can tell that you have been there. What capacity were you military or civilian?

[seemslikeadream]

21. BLOOD MONEY?

I understand your postition now, your relatives are making money off this war.

Do you realize that civilian contractors are putting our soldiers in harms way?

Two government reports, one civilian and one military, were issued on the Abu Ghraib torture scandal. The Army reported that military intelligence officers and civilian contractors were deeply involved in the abuse.


Clearwater security worker killed in Iraq
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=613926

Diary of an interrogator: After a tough day's questioning
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=542297

CACI in the Dark On Reports of Abuse (Employee Still Working in Iraq)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=534154

[Dr. Jones]

11. Who doesn't want peace and democracy?

But when you start a war for a lie, this is the result.

It WAS for the oil. Executive Order 13303 bears this out.

It had NOTHING to do with freeing the Iraqi people from Saddam.

Bush's mission to transfer all of Iraq's oil assets to American oil companies has been accomplished.

[Marnieworld]

13. So which Iraqis are the good guys?

The Sunnis or the Shias? The Sunnis were aligned with Saddam and they are fighting for representation in the gov't. The gov't the US in place since we invaded is by majority Shia. The Shia who are fundamentalists like the gov't of Iran. The Shia and Sunnis are fighting eachother over power, a vacumn of power that our invasion created. Many sources indicate that the people that are currently in power are using the power of plice to raid towns and force Sunnis out of Shia neighborhoods if they are lucky. Many sources indicated that the Iraqi police are more like death squads raiding towns and killing specifically for sectarian reasons. So are the insurgents Sunnis or Shias? Your comments completely disregard the fact that it has descended into the sectarian civil war. You also neglect that the majority of Iraqis want us out, and that a near majority of polled Iraqis are just OK with the killing of Americans who invaded their country.

The enemy of American soldiers is the US gov't who put them in harms way. They invaded without a good reason and with no plan and now the country has descended into violent endless chaos that was predicted by many. That is the group of "bastards" that you speak of. That is the only group that can get our soldiers out of harm's way. And why haven't they yet?

[Jayhawk Lib]

14. You sound like you have been there.

When were you there? Were you a civilian contractor or a military person?
Or maybe you are like me and have several relatives (son in law, grandson, and nephew) there?

If you are getting you info from the media, you are not getting the facts.

[Marnieworld]

15. nope

I guess some facts slipped through. Perhaps not all media is bad.

[Catrina]

18. True, like the media insisting on calling mercenaries 'civilian contractor

[seemslikeadream]

20. When were YOU there?

How do your relatives know WHO the insurgents are and where they come from? Did they ask for ID's or can they tell just by looking at them?

on edit

Oh I see your relative is a mercenary?

[Catrina]

16. Over a year ago a poll taken in Iraq said that 42% wanted Saddam

back. That's how bad things are there now, and I imagine that number has probably risen since then.

Over 80% want the US invaders out of their country. This is that cause of the chaos over there.

People can't seem to get it. We don't belong there. Maybe you don't know this, but had it not been for the support he got from the West, mostly the US, Saddam would have been kicked out of office by the Iraqis himself. They tried over and over again, but each time were foiled by interference from the CIA.

Let them fight their own battles now. The troops and the 'civilian contractors' or maybe we're talking about Rummy's private mercenary army, are the cause of what's happening. They may have hated Saddam, but most of them hate this invasion of their country more.

We need to take care of this country ~ we're in no position to be going around the world telling other people what to do ~ the torture, the bombing of civilians, the lies about war etc. not to mention the problems here, is evidence of that.

It'll take a long time for this country to recover, if ever, from the harm done by this administration ~

You don't get Democracy by bombing people ~ too many Iraqis now have dead relatives and friends to mourn for, caused by this administration.

The only Iraqis who are happy we're there imo, are the Chalabi types who intend to profit from the invasion ~ which they already have.

[Jayhawk Lib]

22. I would be interested in

who took the poll. The ones that I know are there or have been there say 80 to 90 percent are glad we are there. But in all reality it is going to take those 80-90 percent to wipe out the 10-20 percent that are causing most of the trouble.

If that means civil war... so be it. It is too bad but peace will not happen until one side or the other is totally decimated.

[Marnieworld]

25. Peace through decimation?

So easy to say when it's not you.

[Jayhawk Lib]

26. It is a fact of life.

Look at every war that finally gets resolved. One side gets decimated. If we had not bombed the Japanese in WW2 it is no telling how much longer the war would have gone on. Sometimes that is what it takes to get things resolved permanently.

I do not like it but that is just the way things are and have been since time eternity....

[Catrina]

27. I know people who've been there also, and what they are saying

is very different. I know one Iraqi citizen who we haven't heard from now for weeks. He does not hate Americans, but over time came to hate the invasion and apologized to us for his feelings. He never knew when his house would be blown up, or his children not return home.

I spoke to one soldier who agreed with the war, but told me that the Iraqi people don't trust them and they can't trust the people, making it difficult to do anything good.

I don't think you can take the word of a few people who were there making money. I've spoken to a few 'civilian contractors' also. They want the war to continue because as they say 'it's a pot of gold' for us.

Every poll taken in Iraq says they want us out. Even the Pentagon isn't denying this anymore. Would you want a foreign army here? No country wants that ~ especially when their resources have been stolen, $23 billion dollars of Iraq money missing ~ barely any electricity, water polluted, hardly any medical supplies and house raids every night, Abu Ghraib and other prisons filled with Iraqis. I don't know how anyone could think the Iraqis are happy about this horrible situation.

I think if we leave, they will take care of the situation themselves. They're perfectly capable obviously, otherwise we would have won this war by now, don't you think?

[Jayhawk Lib]

29. I agree that

it is time to back out and let the Iraqis settle it out themselves. Saddam is out and they have had elections, so it probably time to let them go it on their own. It will probably turn into a civil war. We had our civil war and are better because of it.

[nonconformist]

5. All I can do is cry

My god, I'm so ashamed. :cry:

And McCain recently had the audacity to claim that these high numbers of Iraqi casualties prove we are "winning", because they outnumber U.S. military casualties.

I want to move to Mars.

[Dr. Jones]

10. Hence the reason Bush didn't want to sign onto the ICC

International Criminal Court.

But can he still be tried for war crimes?

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

12. He could certainly be tried for treason here at home

Regardless of the status of the World Court

[Disturbed]

23. Iraqi Insurgency

Iraqi Insurgency

In January 2005 Iraqi intelligence service director General Mohamed Abdullah Shahwani said that Iraq's insurgency consited of at least 40,000 hardcore fighters, out of a total of more than 200,000 part-time fighters and volunteers who provide intelligence, logistics and shelter. Shahwani said the resistance enjoyed wide backing in the Sunni provinces of Baghdad, Babel, Salahuddin, Diyala, Nineveh and Tamim. Shahwani said the Baath, with a core fighting strength of more than 20,000, had split into three factions.

The main one, still owing allegiance to jailed dictator Saddam Hussein, is operating out of Syria. It is led by Saddam's half-brother Sabawi Ibrahim al-Hassan and former aide Mohamed Yunis al-Ahmed, who provide funding to their connections in Mosul, Samarra, Baquba, Kirkuk and Tikrit. Izzat Ibrahim al-Duri is still in Iraq. Two other factions have broken from Saddam, but have yet to mount any attacks. Islamist factions range from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's al-Qaeda affiliate to Ansar al-Sunna and Ansar al-Islam.

A picture of the composition of the insurgency, though in constant flux, has come into somewhat greater focus. London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies estimates roughly 1,000 foreign Islamic jihadists have joined the insurgency. And there is no doubt many of these have had a dramatic effect on perceptions of the insurgency through high-profile video-taped kidnappings and beheadings. However, American officials believe that the greatest obstacles to stability are the native insurgents that predominate in the Sunni triangle. Significantly, many secular Sunni leaders were being surpassed in influence by Sunni militants. This development mirrors the rise of militant Shia cleric and militia leader Moqtada al-Sadr vis-à-vis the more moderate Shia cleric Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_insurge...