President of Iran is a nut job

[cynatnite]

I think he wants Israel wiped off the map. Whether they are nuclear capable or not, I don't know. Most have said they're a good 2-10 years away from it. Even if they have a nuclear bomb aimed at Israel and the US showed absolute proof, not many will believe it. Any credibility the US had was torn to shreds by bush.

The people running Iran are almost as dangerous as those who are running ours. I say almost because I think this is inflammatory rhetoric by an extremist who probably wouldn't do it, but looking across the pond at someone like bush, it honestly can't be ruled out.

Iran is capable of striking back and with American troops next door it won't be difficult for them. bush has pretty well guaranteed that we'll more than likely have some kind of tangle with Iran. He wants it and feels it his mission from gawd to protect Israel. We all know he has a 'shoot first, ask questions later' mentality.

We're looking at two extremists, one christian and one muslim, who hate each other and will take the rest of us with them. The difference is bush is willing to nuke 'em first because he believes armageddon is at hand. He'll blame them, of course.

While I do think Iran is dangerous, not as dangerous as North Korea, they are not going to hit the US or our troops unless there is a physical confrontation and that will only happen if bush takes that first step.

Considering the sources of Hersh's article, I do believe the generals know bush is insane. This was a first option of containing bush's predilection to nuke the bad guys. If bush continues on with the RW nutjob armageddon freaks, they could resign in protest in hopes that the public spotlight will be enough.

If bush makes the first move, whether it's conventional or nuclear, all bets are off.

[JuniperLea]

1. Israel must fall...

before Jeebus can come back... don't you know?


I wish someone would tell Bush that he won't go down in history as any kind of president if our history ends now...

[ECH1969]

2. Bombing him will make him untouchable politically

He is waving a red flag to Israel and the US. Why else would he keep using English as the background in his speechs?

[Warpy]

3. They were moderating until Stupid opened his big fat mouth

Then they elected a nut job to counter our nut job. One can hardly blame them.

Ours needs to be thrown out of power. We can't stand another 3 years of him.

[BurtWorm]

17. You are 100% correct. Ahmadinejad is a reaction to Bushist hostility

to Iran.

[NNN0LHI]

4. Our troops should not be in Iraq to begin with

Bring them home. Israel can take care of itself. Problem solved.

Don

[bowens43]

5. So is the president of the United States.....

Two nut jobs who hate each other........

[Avalux]

7. great minds.....

:hi:

[radfringe]

62. yep - thought the same thing

only question is - which one will be cracked first?

[cynatnite]

I did say bush was insane :)

scary shit.

[Avalux]

6. So is the President of the United States.

Two nutjobs who are really quite similiar in a lot of ways. Scary as hell.

[havocmom]

38. Yep, and if having a nut-job for a leader is grounds for attack

DUCK & COVER America! The world ought to be coming here soon if poor leadership is grounds for attack or invasion. Ours is about as poor and crazy as they come.

[IdaBriggs]

8. And we've got room to talk? Unfortunately, NOT!

ON EDIT: Replying to your subject line, without reading your message -- sorry! Knee jerk reaction! :)

[LSK]

9. I CANT BELIEVE IM READING ALL THIS KOOLAID ON DU

Replace "President of Iran" with "Saddam" and how this is any different from late 2002 and 2003????

There is no PROOF that hes a nutjob and he has NEVER claimed to want Nuclear Weapons.

Most importantly WE HAVE A MEDIA THAT SPINS, LIES AND DISTORTS EVERYTHING.

I just cant believe I have to read this repeated PROPOGANDA here on DU.

[cynatnite]

14. I don't believe every world leader who stands up to bush is a good guy

I think both are nuts and extremists on opposite ends.

[LSK]

18. what evidence is there that the Iranian leader is nuts???

How hard is it to believe that the media is making him out to be a nutcase to promote Bush's war??

Maybe Im wrong, but I remember the SAME BULLSHIT 4 years ago with Iraq and Saddam.

[cynatnite]

32. We don't have absolute proof that bush is insane, either...

but it's widely agreed here at DU.

I do think both are insane and extremests. Not a good scenario by any stretch of the imagination.

[LSK]

35. and going around claiming that the Iranian is insane

Just bolsters the Bush agenda. And yet there is still no proof.

[cynatnite]

37. Oh, please

they're both fucking nuts and both should be kick dropped off this planet.

That's like saying criticizing bush helps the terrorists. Give me a break. :eyes:

[LSK]

40. cite evidence

[cynatnite]

42. You first!

There is no hard evidence that bush is insane, yet most here at DU will agree that he is. I think the Iranian president is insane and an extremist. Not much difference between the two except bush is far more willing to strike first.

[LSK]

43. of what claim???

Im not claiming Bush is insane or sane, or the Iranian President is insane or sane. But I am claiming that this looks A LOT like how we made out Saddam to be before we invaded. And I see no evidence that the Iranian is insane which you claim in your original post.

In addition, Im not sure Bush is insane, but rather just robbing us all blind. Are criminals insane???

[cynatnite]

47. As I have said repeatedly...I think bush is insane...

that's my opinion, just like I'm of the opinion that the Iranian president is insane. They're also extremists. While I have no idea if the president of Iran is a criminal, bush and his cohorts most certainly are.

The scariest place to be right now is between these two people and those who avidly support them. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be. :shrug:

[oblivious]

15. I agree. It's amazing. Massive reinforcement of the * admin propaganda.

[malaise]

23. Despite massive propaganda from the

corporate media, we all know Bush is nuts. I don't know if the Iranian leader is nuts but certain self interested people are pushing that view.

From where I sit, the lunatic in the WH is way more dangerous for this planet. Of that I am sure.

[cynatnite]

41. bush is willing to make the first move

that's what makes him far more dangerous, IMO. Iran, with their nutjobs, will retaliate in ways we are in no way prepared for....probably bring a few other countries with them, too.

[Norquist Nemesis]

21. Exactly! Even with today's announcement

he stated it is for power--not weapons. But everytime a middle east country breathes the word "nuclear" Bush craps his pants.

[XemaSab]

22. Why do you hate America??????

[Shakespeare]

25. Oh, c'mon--even Sy Hersh thinks this guy is dangerous, if not mad.

He also thinks he may not be the one really running things, but that's another topic for another thread. I don't think Iran has done anything--ANYTHING--that warrants our going after them, but I'm also not going to romanticize another bad leader while criticizing our own.

[tocqueville]

39. he is a nutjob

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

2005 "World Without Zionism" speech

President Ahmadinejad speaking at "The World without Zionism" conference
Content of the Speech
During the "World Without Zionism" conference held for students in October 2005 Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said in a speech:

"Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world. But we must be aware of tricks." <1>
Later in the speech Ahmadinejad said that the issue with Palestine would be over "the day that all refugees return to their homes a democratic government elected by the people comes to power."<2>

Also in the speech Ahmadinejad denounced attempts to normalize relations with Israel and condemned all Muslim leaders who accept the existence of Israel as "acknowledging a surrender and defeat of the Islamic world." Many believe this criticism was aimed at nearby nations Qatar, Bahrain, and Pakistan, which have taken steps towards improving relations with Israel.

In the speech Ahmadinejad stated that he believes Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip to be a confidence trick, designed to gain acknowledgement from Islamic states. In a rally held two days later, Ahmadinejad declared that his words reflected the views of the Iranian people, adding that Westerners are free to comment, but their reactions are invalid. <3>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

besides he is a rabid defender of the cult of the Mahdi (shia version) which is the Islamic equivalent of Armageddon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_eschatology

Jesus and the ad-Dajjal
According to the Islamic view Jesus (Isa, in Arabic) is not the Son of God, but was a prophet and will return to Earth. It is believed that Jesus never died and he was not crucified; instead he was raised into heaven still physically alive, where he lives now. At the time appointed by Allah, Jesus will physically return to this world, and together with the Mahdi will end all wars, and usher in an era of peace. The messianic era comes after Jesus kills ad-Dajjal, the antichrist figure in Islam, and defeats his followers.

Minority views held by the Ahmadiyya movement, which mainstream Islam regards as heretics, state that while Jesus was crucified, he did not die on the cross. Instead, he was removed from the cross while still alive after which he died a natural death in Kashmir. Their belief is that the references to the Second Coming of Jesus in Islamic eschatological literature are allegorical. This prophecy according to them was fulfilled by the coming of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

[norml]

10. Wiping Israel off the map, has been a standard campaign promise in Iran

since 1979.

You can't get elected without it.

[MADem]

11. Of course he is, but he HAS NO POWER

He's a figurehead. The power rests firmly, decisively, absolutely, in the hands of the Ayatullahs.

Most people look at that asshat and think that he equates to other leaders. He doesn't. He is a WEAK president...the bastard can't get a cup of tea unless the Ayatullahs say it's ok.

And the Ayatullahs are not as nutty as he is. They're jerks, but compared to him, they are completely reasonable.

I think you mean NORTH Korea--South Korea is dangerous if you are driving around Osan or Seoul and don't know enough to drive very defensively, but they aren't threatening us, unless our service personnel behave badly....then they have demonstrations.

That said, when the Ayatullahs are more reasonable than the Monkey, well, we do have a conundrum...

[AngryAmish]

19. Thank you

The ayatollas are pretty nutty and not popular. The one thing that is popular in Iran is for them to get the bomb.

[cynatnite]

20. I think you are partially right

But I also think bush will make the first move in a confrontation and that changes any reason the Ayatollahs might have.

Thanks for the heads up on my mistake with South Korea. It's fixed.

[panader0]

12. I think the white house will encourage Israel to act first

[madinmaryland]

13. I think he may be trying to bait Bush

into doing something stupid. Bushco seems to falling hook, line, and sinker.

[LSK]

16. no, hes scared shitless that Bush will invade him next

So IF he is trying to make nuclear WEAPONS, that is why.

[cynatnite]

24. This guys election was in reaction to the extremist nutjob in the WH

If it wasn't for bush, I don't think this guy would have been elected. Hell, we invaded a country next door to them and I honestly can't blame anyone in Iran for being scared about what we might do next.

[madinmaryland]

28. I don't think he's scared of bush.

I really think he is trying to provoke something here. With our standing in the world now, this is an opportunity that iran has to rub america's nose in the sand.

[LSK]

29. or maybe he just wants Nuclear powerplants like the rest of the world

[Virginia Dare]

31. Ding, Ding, we have a winner!!!

and who's got his back? Surely somebody does.

[Marie26]

33. They're baiting each other.

Because, IMO, they both want a war.

[Chomskyite]

26. Ahmadinejad doesn't really control the nukes

They are controlled by the Ayatollah Khamenai, and he issued a fatwa in August banning the production of nuclear weapons in Iran.

What? We take Osama's fatwas seriously and we take the dead Ayatollah Khomeini's seriously (in protecting Salman Rushdie 17 years after the fatwa HE issued), but the media and the Bushies ignore THIS one?

[sheelz]

70. Did you happen to see Barbara Slavin on C-span?

She talked about the way Iran is structured with the Ayatollah and other military figures have control. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad doesn't make those decisions. She also talked about her recent trip to Iran and her interview with Ahmadinejad. I hope they replay of the program, it's informative and interesting.

[Marie26]

27. Did you ever hear about

the Armageddon cult he belongs to? I wish I hadn't.

[LSK]

36. which branch of the Pentagon did that come out of?

:sarcasm:

[Marie26]

51. The "Newsweek" division

Hey, I don't know if it's true, but it has been reported in newspapers ranging from the Washington Post to the Persian Times. I thought it was interesting, because it almost perfectly mirrors the struggle between moderates & fanatics within our own government.

The new president is nuttier than Bush. Ahmadinejad said that he was surrounded by a "white light" while he gave a speech in front of the UN, and that his words were so compelling that no one blinked for 20 minutes. He is also devoted to a religious figure called the "12th Iman" and is convinced that he will usher in the Iman's second coming. According to Muslim legend, the Iman will return at the end of time to create an era of Islamic divine justice. He's also rabidly anti-Semetic & has said that the Holocaust didn't happen. All this creates a picture of a man who is a religious fanatic, and a meglomaniac. (Sound familiar?) And he is replacing reformers within his own government w/hardliners. Not only wouldn't this guy back down from a nuclear standoff, he'd probably welcome it as a final battle against evil. Bush, of course, would feel the same. These two together are a whole lot alike & it scares me to think what they could lead us to. It's not Pentagon propaganda to say he's nuts. The Iranians think he's nuts.

Iran's Reformists Take on 'Neo-cons'- http://blog.washingtonpost.com/worldopinionroundup/2006/03/iran.html

Preparing Iran for judgement day -
http://www.newstatesman.com/200512050014

Religion Versus Reality
Who is this man—a mystic, a bumbling political novice or an imminent threat to Iran's established order?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10313618/site/newsweek/

[cynatnite]

52. Saving this!

Thanks for that info!

Scary how much alike he and bush are.

[LSK]

53. once again, after the leadup to war in Iraq - I DONT BUY IT

I dont know what you were doing in late 2002 and early 2003, but this is looking like an INSTANT REPLAY.

[Marie26]

54. Hypothetically,

let's assume this is true, OK? How could this possibly be reported in a way that you would believe it?

[LSK]

55. If President Clinton was still in office maybe

Because then the incentive to lie wouldnt be there.

But they have to sell this war and painting the Iranians as insane is their #1 method to do this.

Scare the people into thinking the Iranians will nuke us and then the people wont care if theres war.

Its the oldest trick in the book and it keeps repeating itself.

The Cold War.

Osama bin Forgotten

Saddams WMD

Iranians with Nukes.

Same BS, different day. Whats next???

[cynatnite]

56. bush has ripped US credibility to shreds

It's kind of like crying wolf too many times and now who is going to believe the US if the threat was real.

Iran dropping a nuke on the US isn't credible or real to me. Hell, Iran hasn't enriched near enough uranium from what I've read today. They have other methods. Richard Clarke is well versed on terrorism and he spoke about what Iran is capable of.

My concern is bush making the first move against someone who is about as insane as he is. Make no mistake...Iran will retaliate in ways I don't believe the US is prepared for. This is not Saddam we're dealing with. I'm not advocating a 'hit them before they hit us first' policy.

If I had my way about how to make sure bush doesn't drag us to his messianic vision, I would bound and gag the man and pull out the chair for any number of reasonable clear thinking people.

[LSK]

57. do you believe if we left the Iranians alone

That they would leave us alone? And we just let the IAEA do its job?

[cynatnite]

63. For the most part...yes

I think diplomacy with a careful eye on them works best. They are still ruled by religious extremism that shouldn't go unchecked.

But I honestly can't blame Iran for being nervous and considering this given that the US invaded their neighbor. With bush in the WH it certainly has worsened matters.

This is one time I think both need to step back from the heated rhetoric, but given the religious extremism in power in this country, I'm not confident it'll happen. I think this is partly why Hersh's article came out. The military wants to stop bush from reacting and this is a first option.

The problem I see happening with this is the fear of countries taking sides in a real confrontation. Most of the Middle East will side with Iran, IMO. The only real ally we'd probably have is Israel.

Any confrontation with Iran will not be pretty or end cleanly, IMO. The entire middle east will erupt and the US would be responsible for even more newly created terrorists other than the ones in Iraq.

Two extremists on opposite sides in charge of powerful countries who believe in some sort of apocalyptic scenario...not a good mix, IMO. Fact is, it scares the shit out of me.

[Marie26]

69. Right

I'm also not advocating pre-emptive action at all. Even if he is crazy, the last thing we need is two nutty, fanatical leaders throwing bombs at each other. I would prefer Saddam anyday, because he didn't have that religious fanaticism that can lead people to act against their own self-interests. I have no idea what this President would do if we bombed Iran, & that's what's scary. He's unpredictable & chaotic. But Iran is at least 5-10 years from developing a nuclear weapon. And I really doubt this guy will be in power that long, & know Bush won't be there that long. Hopefully, the next Iranian (and US) President will be more reasonable. So, if we do think this president is crazy, that's all the more reason not to bomb Iran at this time. I don't know why it's necessary to act like Iran's leader is completely reasonable & rational when he's not.

[progressivebydesign]

58. Sorry.. but I think Texas A&M owns the rights to the "12th Iman"

They'll have to change the name of that group. (okay, sorry..a bit of Seahawk fan humor to loosen things up).

[Marie26]

61. Umm.. Sports humor flies right over my head. nt

[Shakespeare]

60. I dunno, the same branch that Sy Hersh talks to?

See my post upthread. :eyes:

[paparush]

30. Why do you hateBush's Freedom to Hate Your Freedom..?

[Richardson08]

34. Regime change in Iran should have happened in 1979

1)for the Iranian hostage situation
2)their support of Hezbollah-blew up the Marine barracks in Beirut.The TWA hijacking in 1985 which resulted in the death of Navy diver Robert Stetman(spelling mistake).Those monsters killed him and then threw his body off the plane.They kidnapped,tortured and killed an American intelligence official in Lebanon.I forgot his name

Pay back is bitch and we owe them.Big time

[BillZBubb]

44. Yeah right we owe them, Jeez what crap.

We owe them because WE INSTALLED THE SHAH who ran the place like a mob kingdom. He and his cronies lived in grandeur while the common people lived like dogs in fear of the secret police. They tortured and killed thousands.

Everything that has happened since then is a result of that fact.

So yeah payback is a bitch. But you keep whining about what they did to us and about the need for another war. You are a true patriot.

[reichstag911]

48. Damn, beat me to it! n/t

[4freethinking]

64. People often

forget the USS Vincennes blew an Iranian airliner out of the sky killing 290 people.

[Richardson08]

72. Really?And the animals who have ruled Iraq since 79 are better?LOL

Are you one of those people which blames the America for 9/11?It sounds like it

[BillZBubb]

73. Are you one of the people who supports Bush?

Sounds like it to me.

The people ruling Iran since 1979 are the Iranians problem. They are certainly no worse than the Shah's cabal. Your statement that we "owe them" something displays total ignorance of our unsavory historical involvement in Iran. They certainly felt they "owed us" based on that.

Continue to live in your world of ignorance, but don't expect too many here to follow your example.

[reichstag911]

46. In case you're unaware...

...we already did "regime change" in Iran back in '53, installing the Shah in the process. After 26 years of his US-supported brutal repression, the Iranians got a measure of payback in '79. Can't imagine why they might still be pissed at the US...

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

49. We DID pay Iran back. "Big time," even...

*cough* Iran-Contra *cough*

Funny enough, a number of the players in that sordid little affair are in power in Washington right now.

Oh, and supporting a brutal dictator for some 20-odd years might make some people mad at us. Not that they replcaed the Shah with
anything better, but still...nothing is born in a vacuum.

And as for the Marine barracks, we sure did pay them back...by invading Grenada.
Lemme see...Grenada...Iran...Grenada...Iran...meh. Close enough.

[LouisianaLiberal]

50. Let's not forget

And correct me if my memory is off

WE helped to depose Mossadagh (sp?), who was elected and popular, and who wouldn't go along with privatizing oil, and was shortly thereafter murdered, and WE helped install Shah Reza Pahlevi (sp?)

I guess the point I'm trying make is that once you attempt to control other countries for political reasons without understanding what you're doing, you allow the kind of unintended consequences you mention. The people of Iran remember this stuff. And so will the people of Iraq.

Yes, I agree that the current leaders of Iran are very dangerous people, but WE helped facilitate their rise to power, and WE organized the October Surprise of 1980, and WE sold them arms to finance ANOTHER attempted imposition in a foreign government.

Perhaps if we dealt with them with our dignity and honor intact we can still ameliorate this mess. I don't think that will happen.

[High Plains]

65. Regime change in Iran did happen in 1979

when the Iranians threw out the US-imposed Shah. Payback is indeed a bitch. Ask those guys at the US embassy in Teheran then.

As for the Marine barracks bombing, well, gee, maybe they shouldn't have put themselves squarely in the middle of the Lebanese civil war and taken sides. You don't make a lot of friends dropping bombs the size of Volkswagons on Druze villages.

[Mrspeeker]

45. President of the USA is a nut job

too so they have something in common!

[mdmc]

59. The President of 'merika is a nut job

too.

[Neil Lisst]

66. Caged Match. Bush v. Iranian president

Winner gets a small nuke and a large container of astroglide.

You can write the rest of the joke.

[Reader Rabbit]

67. Maybe he and Chucklenuts can go mano a mano

Winner gets to sit in the tallest tree and fling poop at whoever passes by.



Can somebody tell me again why the fuck we let these wannabe silverbacks run the world?

[CJCRANE]

68. A few months ago

Terri Schiavo's feeding tube was the most pressing issue and before that Social Security reform.

Now all of a sudden Bushco's telling us "the Iranians want to kill us all, AAAGGGH!!! PANIC !!!"

It's pretty clear that the PTB have assigned * the role of smashing up the non-Western-friendly ME countries. Maybe once * has taken down Iran & Syria the PTB will let a Democrat in office to clean up the mess. We can only hope.

[sheelz]

71. Here's a real nut job that has real nukes