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Republicans CAN NOT WIN on immigration...

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Boxerfan Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 07:08 PM
Original message
Republicans CAN NOT WIN on immigration...
This is a clear case of them ONCE AGAIN framing the issue we are all talking about. I'd prefer to focus on the real issues but by popular demand here we are talking about it.

This one is a "freebie" for the Democrats. The Republicans are divided on this issue. That's good. The Republicans have a "split the baby" decision here. That's better.

The reason is if they get tough on immigration they lay a major blow to the business sector that uses them to keep their expenses low & workers afraid.
If they embrace immigration they will enrage thier base of voters who rightly see immigration as a threat to the standard of living in America.

We should take a stance against the employers of illegals & promise to enforce existing laws & that is it. No catering or pandering-just hold the line as to what's best for the majority of Americans. It's an easy case to make with the public.

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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. The danger is they dial in their message.
I don't think they can do it.
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Enforce the existing laws is all I demand.
The rest of this insanity can go bite a big one IMO.

If we listen to the open border set, we will be signing our death warrants as Democrats.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Either extreme is bad
Total closure or totally open.

People forget that working for such low wages and no health care is not in the immigrant's best interest.

There are a lot of issues in this one problem and they are not going to go away with drastic measures.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. The House bill could never be implemented
No agency or agencies have the resources to round up the millions of illegal aliens in the country. I guess the Repukes mean to raise taxes to get it done. Bad...bad...bad news for them.

This bill is all hat and no cattle. It makes them appear tough and I think Americans have had their fill of that crap from the Executive Branch.

My 2¢.
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lastknowngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. The repug "voters" i.e. morans are not divided on immigration
they are bunch of racists who see more and more "Mexicans" taking jobs at McDonald's, landscaping, construction and other jobs they and their children use to fill. Wake up man "Illegal Immigrants" are the next N word, and look for violence to ensue. The only split is between the corps crooks who exploit them and the country club repugs who use them for maids and nannies and think they are fine because they know their place unlike uppity types.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I think you are right - Shades of Charlie Manson and Helter Skelter
I think "someone" is intentionally attempting to start a fiery race war and it stinks. Why all the worry all of a sudden? This issue didn't just happen! It's been going on for years!

We have immigration laws that are being completely ignored. Why not start by enforcing the laws we have and when we see the results, make subtle changes for the good of all?
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Because for the first time in five years
The majority of the people are united in their opinion about Bush and the war. Up until now, there was no need to make an issue about it because the people were already divided over Bush and the war.
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. The issue is already framed.
There are no "freebies" for Democrats. The Democrats will over pander to the pro immigration forces in their bid to build a base to grow a future voter bloc. That will piss off the rethug moderates thay could win over and drive them back into the bush fold

Mark my words. They will screw this up.

Your position is essentially the position the rethugs will eventually take, plus build a wall to placate their rabid base.
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DaveinMD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. the real plus for us
is that Republicans pushing this issue will move the growing hispanic vote into our column. This is why California became Democrat after Pete Wilson pissed off these voters.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. Too late.Dems and libs snatch defeat from the jaws of victory
All dems and libs had to do was find SOME RESPONSIBLE position short of branding illegal immigrants or cutting off fingers and we could have beat the republicans like drums.

Instead, the tiny vocal minority advocates completely open borders and equating anyone who gave and sacrificed for this country with anybody who just wants to be here for whatever reason. It's crazy enough and unpopular enough in itself, but also has a dollop of hypocrisy and racism because they probably only mean Mexicans. It's tough to tell: the supposed open borders advocates get all evasive when the concept of immigrating Guatemalans and Asians and Bulgarians is brought up.

The Immigration issue has turned against democrats.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. The GOP does NOT plan to win on Immigration.
It is just another step to split up the Democratic Coalition. Each step, Gay Marriage, Immigration, Civil Rights etc are all attempts to split off Democratic Voters from Voting Democratic. The GOP knows you do NOT win or lose an election on just one issue, it is many issues that decide a campaign. Each by themselves do not win or lose the Campaign, but together they work to win the election.

I was reviewing the Scopes Monkey Trial the the surprising thing is that all of the important parties in the actual trial were Democrats. Bryan, Darrow, the head of the ACLU litigation team, and even H.L. Mencken. It was held in a Republican county in the mid-South. I had to ask my self why all the Democrats, then it dawned on me, Democrats talk about Policy, discuss policy, understand policy and that the only way to get a good policy is to discuss it in the open. Republican only worry about POWER and how to get it. This is why all of the progressive movements in this Country's history has come from the Democrats or third parties that eventually merged with the Democrats (The nearest exception to this rule is Theodore Roosevelt, but in many ways he was trying to head off the progressive push that had began in the 1880s and would finally be made the law when the New Deal was implemented in the 1930s). Thus even TR was NOT the progressive he is often made out to be (Going with the Country more than leading it).

My point here is simple, the purpose of this legislature is NOT to stop immigration (Corporate American WANTS immigration to keep wages low) but to divide the Democratic Party so that the GOP can cheat enough to retain power.

As to the Scoops Monkey trial, If the above does not sound like your understanding of the Scoops Monkey trial, you are NOT alone. Most people perception of the Trial is based on the Play "Inherit the Wind", NOT the actual Trial. The problem is the Play, was an attack on McCarthyism (i.e. forbidding all dissent) NOT the issue in the actual trial which was WHO Decides what should be taught in the Public Schools. The Authors of the Play decided to use Scoops as a means to make they point, but to do so they had to rewrite whole sections of the debate and even the Examination of Byran by Darrow (Huge parts were kept, but often edited to switch the point of the statement made OR rewritten to further the message of the play). Bryan was the most attacked man of his time, the GOP hated him for they feared him (Even Mencken in his obituary of Bryan, who he hated, acknowledged that Bryan won the election of 1896 but the GOP stole the election from Bryan). Such Attacks have been the standard Republicans have done to ALL Democrats that they fear may defeat them in an Election, FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, Carter, Clinton, and now Hillary and Dean. The play was influenced by these attacks on Bryan and in many ways counted on them when they wrote the play (i.e. Bryan had been dead over 30 years, but people would still remember some of the attacks on him, thus making it easier to make him the villain in the play). The Authors knew enough about the real trial to declare that they play had nothing to do with it, but just a means to make an message. This made the play a good attack on McCarthyism (and the GOP) but a lousy piece of history.
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Boxerfan Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Divisive politics has been around forever....
Seems we also have had to wait till the huddled masses can take no more & form a TRUE rebellion...

My point (& I'm sticking to it) is tha I see a real division of the Republican party here. I listen to C-span W. Journal & scan the talks during the day-Both sides. I think this one is given.
That said, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory has been our gameplan as of late...Sigh....

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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. We havent seen the worst of it yet.
The player haters, racists, bigots, and just plain assholes on the repuke side are showing no mercy. I'm predicting the worst will come by November.

Conspiracy theory time: Could that be what those secret Halliburton camps are all about?
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Boxerfan Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. But that's what they WANT you to think...
Talk to real Americans,at work-shopping etc.. Very very few are as bile as the batch they have running the country for them. They are unfortunately very very mis-informed & somewhat "invested" in these asshats. Some to the point they go rabid. But they are a minority IMHO....
Now the "rapture right"...Now there's a crowd to watch out for.I hope there are not as many of them as reported (20% of Republican base??). I don't get straight answers from those people. They know better than to discuss thier beliefs outside thier own for the most part.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-11-06 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. I don't know
I think they may very well win on this. If only because of the scare tactics they use. "Vote for me or you'll lose your job to an illegal alien". I am afraid that it will bring out the lunatic fringe to vote for them. Of course the Republicans are split on this and you may be right that it will not help them.
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