Well, I've found another reason to despise the anti-immigrant folks

[oustemnow]

Was heading home this evening, on a commute that is typically, to put it kindly, soul-shriveling. But it was worse than usual for a Tuesday night; usually, it doesn't get hellish until later in the week.

So, finally, I come across the obstacle; three numbnuts standing on a freeway overpass with a big sign that reads "Deport Illegal Aliens" and a jumbo-size, "Hey, I'm compensating for my micro-penis!" American flag.

Everyone is slowing down to take a look at this trio of dipshits. And, sure enough, as soon as I crossed the overpass, traffic opened up like an over-ripe melon. Probably added 15 minutes to my drive.

There were a few people honking at them, presumably in support. I hope many others flipped them off, as I did.

[Horse with no Name]

1. I saw a bumpersticker this weekend

said something along the lines of "4000 illegals here everyday to steal YOUR job".:wtf:

[oustemnow]

2. But, according to Bush, they're jobs Americans won't do!

I am ambivalent about the immigration thing. Living in Southern California, I can't imagine culture without the Mexican influence. (And I'd be kidding myself if I thought they were all legal.) The immigration bill that Bush is proposing is one of the two things I agree with him on (the national do-not call list is the other), but I think he is doing it for the wrong reasons: to provide his business cronies with cheap labor, and to curry favor with Latino voters.

Sigh; what's a poor boy to do?

[Horse with no Name]

4. I'm not at all ambivalent about it

I hold no fault to people trying to feed their families.
The hiring and exploitation of undocumented workers is just a hybrid of slavery/indentured servitude afforded to the higher class. As humans, we should recognize that and stop it at the root.

[oustemnow]

5. but what is the root?

people who are trying to feed their families, or companies willing to exploit that fact? Hell, that's a question that far exceeds the immigration issue, and extends to society as a (w)hole.

[EFerrari]

8. My rule: If it's a choice between the people and the cronies

I side with the people.

Works pretty well.

[Horse with no Name]

14. The root is simple

It's the person who employs and exploits the workers for meager wages.
Until you hit them in the pocketbook, they will continue to do it.
Now they get a slap on the wrist and a wink wink.
Fine them the first time, confiscate assets if they continue to break the law (that's what they do to drug offenders).

[oustemnow]

16. the problem with that is, then they WILL stop hiring undocumented people

and those undocumented people will be SOL. The fact is, people would not be coming into the country illegally if they weren't getting a better opportunity here than they are elsewhere. Do I think it's right that they're earning less than a natural-born citizen is? No. But it's better than what they're making elsewhere, with room--and opportunity, given the right policy--for improvement. This is is a subject with more nuance than either "Deport the illegals!" or "Destroy the oppressors!"

[Horse with no Name]

18. There are problems on both sides of the border

Two neighboring corrupt governments.
But the answer is never exploitation.

[oustemnow]

21. Maybe I'm coming at things from a more cynical state of mind than you are

My basic belief is that any workplace situation is basically exploitative in nature. Does that mean I believe that illegal immigrants should be expolited that much more because of their status? No. But I do think that they are receiving more opportunities here? Yes, otherwise they likely wouldn't be comin here. And I don't see anything wrong with that. What's the alternative? Punish the companies to teach them a lesson, and in the meantime throw out all the illegals so that they are in a worse situation? There has to be a middle ground, with room for progress, and amnesty is the best resolve so far I've seem for that, even if I do think there are ill intentions behind it.

[GirlinContempt]

26. The root is deeper than that

How about the economies crushed by 'free trade', countries with collapsed economies thanks to 'capitalism' full of people starving, poor, and dying, who're willing to DIE to escape and MAYBE find something better.

[GrumpyGreg]

3. Rallies and charity runs and marches always mess up traffic.

The Boston Marathon cuts right through my town and I don't dislike the marathoners,even though it creates many driving problems with closed roads.

It's just the way it is.

[oustemnow]

6. Yeah, but this was three freaking dipshits

that got every single looky-loo motorist to slow down and ogle their idiocy. It's not like they were even blocking traffic; they were on an overpass.

[rustydog]

7. Seattle knows how to rally against divisive politics

Police estimated about 25,000 people took part by the time the march ended downtown.



They kept coming — and coming. They poured from alleyways and side streets, joining throngs of other immigrants and their supporters, marching through the Central Area and past downtown Seattle landmarks.

[EFerrari]

11. That's so beautiful. Lol!

Thanks!

I think these pictures make me happy because they are images of some of the most powerless people on earth standing up, together.

Si se puede.

:hi:

[High Plains]

24. Hey, that's me there somewhere behind Che.

I happened to be in town, so I participated. It was great, very empowering, very positive. And much larger than even the organizers had expected. Fucking-A, si, se puede.

[American liberal]

9. I received the following e-mail from a friend

who told me about a time when she overheard a group of young women referring to her as "white trash." I just don't get it.

Dear President Bush:
I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and I would like to ask you to assist me.


I'm going to walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I know you can help with this.


I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here.


So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:


1. Free medical care for my entire family.


2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.


3. All government forms need to be printed in English.


4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.


5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.


6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.


7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.


8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.


9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws.


10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English.


11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.


12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.


13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy.


14. Eventually I want to be able to vote and have all election materials and notices sent to me in English with Spanish as a second language..


I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico.


I am sure that Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely. However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting with your V.P.

[EFerrari]

12. Wow. That's reallly creepy. nt

[oustemnow]

13. Well, that's just repulsive

and ignorant

[Horse with no Name]

17. Compare it to the one I received a few months ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x108024

They aren't even original.:)

[American liberal]

19. no kidding.

I haven't responded to her yet. I may wait until I see her f2f so she will not misinterpret me. I gotta tell ya' my mouth was agape as I read it. It was not AT ALL what I would expect from someone like her. It makes me sad for this country that otherwise intelligent, kind people could so quickly jump on the blame-the-victim bandwagon.

[AlphaCentauri]

28. LOL! ..look

http://www.mexico-insights.com/

...Mexican Documents: Part 2 Driver's License and IMSS
Obtaining and renewing your Mexican Driver's License is the easiest document procedure of the lot, and also the one most dreaded.
Last year a friend phoned me one day before her California license expired. She was searching desperately for the phone number of Alberto the traffic cop, who helps foreigners through the process—most of the folks he helps give him a nice sized gift for his young family, in addition to paying the required fees.

"Do it yourself," I said, "there's nothing to it."


...The Cancer Chronicles: Medical Care in Guadalajara
As my grandmother would say, “You shouldn’t ever need such doctors." Still there comes a time in all our lives when we really do require first rate medical attention.
Living in Mexico, most of us have wondered if we would return to North America for intensive medical care or if we would take a chance and use the medical professionals available in Guadalajara. This year I had to make that decision during the whirlwind two-week period when I was diagnosed in Guadalajara with cancer.


....When my husband and I moved to Lakeside a year and a half ago, we were ready for perfect weather, some lazy days, and the time to pursue interests that had lain dormant for many years. We didn't realize we had a wonderful surprise ahead of us in the wide variety of social opportunities, and the openness and friendliness of the local population, both Mexican and expatriates.
Most expatriates greet each other with friendly smiles, and a kind of connectedness occurs immediately. There is a kind of recognition of kindred souls that lights up the eyes, and sometimes a curious look will bring the questions that unite us. Where are you from? How long have you been here? Where are you living? These are the usual questions. Often these simple questions are the ones that open the doors that lead to strong and lasting friendships

Gay Puerto Vallarta - Useful Tourist Information
http://www.discoveryvallarta.com/Tourist.html


News from the colonist
http://www.guadalajarareporter.com/writers.cfm

[Porcupine]

10. So there you were just adding crap to the atmosphere......

with god knows how many overpriviliged folks in thier SUV's when some Moran decides to slow you ALL down and force you to rubberneck so he can protest that fact that a permanent underclass with minimal rights is keeping him from joining you in the middle class.

BARKEEP!!! DOPE SLAPS FOR EVERYBODY!

[oustemnow]

15. I think you have completely misunderstood my position

and this thread. You should probably take the time to re-read every post.

[Porcupine]

22. I think I understood your post only too well.

OP- "soul shriveling commute"-

Hey, your commute wouldn't have anything to do with the growing population of the area? How much of population growth is accounted for by immigration or immigrants?

OP- "three numbnuts" and "jumbo-size, "Hey, I'm compensating for my micro-penis!" American flag."

While I don't agree with their approach to solving the problem I feel quite personally the pain that causes them to bitch about it. I presume you were driving a GEO Metro or the equivalent?

OP- "Probably added 15 minutes to my drive."

Which inspired my post. People don't want to connect the dots between our "comforts" and immigration and the exploitation of the earth, the air, the water and every other damn thing. You cannot solve a complex problem without compassion and of course humour.

BARKEEP!!- ANOTHER ROUND OF DOPE SLAPS!

[oustemnow]

29. well, now I'm thoroughly convinced that you missed the point of my post

Either that, or you're an anti-immigrant, borderline-racist schmuck. I know that you didn't bother to go back to re-read the posts, as I suggested, otherwise your argument wouldn't be entirely based on my initial post, but let's just take your most recent belligerent rant at face value:

1) Yeah, traffic's a bitch here. I don't blame that on a growing immigrant immigration; it's always been a bitch here. And I dare you to point out where I was blaming it on immigrants. I as just establishing the scenario. If, perhaps, YOU were suggesting that growing traffic problems are the result of immigrants, then yeah, you may be a racist prick.

2) What "pain" do you feel that the "Deport Illegal Immigrants" crowd is feeling? Please, I beg you to clarify. Is it the pain of the "dirty Mexicans" taking their jobs? If you can offer a better and less offensive explanation, I implore you to present it. And, while it doesn't have anything to do with anything, I drive a fairly modest Camry.

3) While I agree with your point about not being able to solve complex problems without humor, I fail to see where you diplayed any of this so-called humor. Or a cogent point, for that matter.

Honestly, I don't know what your problem, or your position, is.

[Jigarotta]

20. Deport Illegal Presidents.

consider who does more harm.

[Marie26]

23. Lou Dobbs is unavoidable

Here's my little rant. I hate Dobbs, but there is no avoiding the man. Today, I was at the Y gym, and Dobbs is on every TV channel. Before I left, I sat for a little while in the lobby to get my stuff together. Dobbs loomed from a wide-screen TV, and a group of men were clustered around the TV, talking. Normally, no one watches the TV there, but Dobbs was attracting a crowd. And as they gathered there, they commented on the show. "They should arrest every one of those people at the end of the parade." "Boycott, they're going to boycott?? None of them should even BE HERE!" "Damn Mexicans." "Unbelievable." "They need to start rounding these people up." Dobbs was getting a regular revival crowd of devotees. All white, well-to-do and angry. Angry over what, exactly, they didn't say. I don't think these people are in imminent danger of losing their professional jobs to illegal immigrants. But they certainly were able to hate. A couple would look over at me knowingly after a particularly offensive comment - like, we're all in this together, right? WRONG. Just because I'm blonde, doesn't mean I approve of your racism, OK?? Whew, OK, I feel better now. That's bugged me all day. It seems like there's so much anger, that's sprung up almost out of nowhere, & it's a little scary to me.

[TahitiNut]

25. So, do you despise Paul Krugman now, too? (How the mighty fall on DU!!)

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/032706O.shtml
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/040106G.shtml

It's funny how all the logic-free 'discussions' on illegal immigration fail to refer to Paul Krugman's two Op-Eds on the issue. I guess Mr. Krugman just isn't a hero on DU anymore, or deemed qualified to speak to the economic consequences of our open obrders and failures to enforce the laws regarding employment of 'undocumented workers.'

Sad. :eyes:

[oustemnow]

30. Great, I'll read your links

But, no, I do not consult Paul Krugman before formulating an opinion on something. Nothing against the guy, as he's obviously a great thinker, but I just have a nagging tendency to base my opinions on my own experiences.

[oustemnow]

31. OK, I retract my last post

After reading those "articles," it's pertty apparent that Krugman's an elitist douchebag.

[TahitiNut]

32. !

:rofl: :rofl:

[LaPera]

27. ILLEGAL!!!!