Can the immigrant movement sweep the Republicans out?

[Onlooker]

It's pretty amazing hat almost out of nowhere emerges a new social movement, the likes of which we haven't seen since the women's movement of the 70s or even the civil rights movement of the 60s. The immigrant population is extremely powerful and has been awakened by Republican racism. It's doing to DC what, frankly, we have failed to do. While our anti-war and anti-Bush efforts have stirred the pot, the immigrant movement is creating political chaos for the Republicans and, at the same time, this is one issue the Democrats have been pretty consistently on the right side of. We should do what we can to support immigrant rights. If that movement stays strong, the Republicans may soon return to their rightful place as the minority party.

[cynatnite]

1. I think this was supposed to be a wedge issue for the repukes

People would get afraid of the immigrants and vote for the repukes...'cause you know they'll protect 'em.

The repukes didn't count on the massive protests and have now buckled. Watching repukes flip flop is like watching a fish out of water.

:evilgrin:

[sadiesworld]

2. Big business has funded these protests...

of course the republicans knew. They're playing both sides of this particular game--surely you see that?!

[cynatnite]

4. How so?

Why would the republicans want massive protests against a bill they wrote?

What businesses are funding the protests? Do you have something to back it up? This is the first I've heard of this.

[Virginia Dare]

7. Divide and conquer...n/t

[cynatnite]

8. Makes no sense

The repukes write an immigration bill expecting to get a nice wedge issue like they did with gay marriage, massive protests across the country takes everyone by surprise...the bill dies as does the republican will.

How does that divide and conquer?

[ClassWarrior]

9. Correct. They seem to have divided themselves, not us.

NGU.

[cynatnite]

11. You are not making sense

The didn't divide and conquer themselves.

[ClassWarrior]

15. They were hoping to divide us, but they inadvertantly divided themselves.

Which is what you're saying.

NGU.

[cynatnite]

17. Oh, okay :) n/t

[Virginia Dare]

16. I wasn't implying that it was successful...

I was just giving you a possible reason for it....if that was the case, it was obviously a failed attempt.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

26. You divide and conquer your enemies, not your base.

[sadiesworld]

31. How about divide and pander.

Big business will get what it wants--a guest worker program (any legislation that passes WILL have a guest worker program--granted, it may not pass until after the election). The rank-and-file voters are getting what they "need"--demagoguery and the option to blame any legislation without teeth on the dems.

[Virginia Dare]

32. The enemies in this case being working Americans...

on edit: and working non-Americans.

[sadiesworld]

19. The protests serve two purposes:

To try to sway the general population in favor of guest worker programs, etc. (thus satisfying the real repub base--big business) and then go on every RW program imaginable touting tough bills (in an effort to satisfy the rank-and-file base).

Try looking into the EWIC (Essential worker Immigration Coalition, I believe).

This is a major propaganda push involving the collusion of state, business, media and religious interests.

Generally, when you see a LOT of people protesting and those protests being covered extensively (and favorably) by corporate media, you need to ask WHY (?)

[cynatnite]

20. So you THINK big business funded the protests

I don't call hundreds of thousands of people marching with threat of deportation hanging over them propaganda. From everything I've read and heard, this was a grass roots movement. It started when the repukes wanted to criminalize priests for helping illegal immigrants and make it a felony to be an illegal.

I think you are way wrong on your assessment.

[sadiesworld]

38. Have any of them been deported?

If big business is unhappy about these protests, why were illegal immigrants given a day off to attend?

If big business is unhappy about these protests, why have spanish-speaking media outlets been promoting them (are you saying Univision is non-corporate?)?

Do you not acknowledge the difference b/t the media coverage of the anti-globalization protests in Seattle, Miami, etc. and the coverage of these protests? Why the difference in treatment?

Is it possible that the ridiculous felon provision was inserted into the bill in order to get the Catholic Church (another avenue of promotion and organization) involved AND polarize the debate?

I certainly believe that the protesters themselves are being genuine, but I think it is naive to believe that this has been a spontaneous uprising due to a poorly thought-out bill. This issue is FAR too big for the repubs to have wandered into it haphazardly.

They're damn close to being where they want to be. The debate, in non-corporate conservative circles, is about amnesty and illegal immigrants themselves--not cheap labor. A guest worker program is a given (possibly after '06). They're also making some headway on blaming the dems for any less-than-satisfactory results.

[ClassWarrior]

13. So? Where's your proof? If this is true, this could be big for us.

If we could prove that big business has funded these protests, we could link it to the Republicon Culture of Corruption.

NGU.

[wake.up.america]

3. I hope the Republicans miscalculated, Angry Hispanics...

who are eligible to vote and others, outnumber those who wish to throw out illegals.

[MADem]

21. Also, the GOP needs that Hispanic vote to stay in power

They have aggressively courted that sector, with Jeb and Columba, Jorge P., that whole "hard work and bootstraps" bullshit. Well, the way they have played THIS imbroglio, all they'll keep is the Cubans.

No one likes it when there's a bit of blatant "racial profiling" going on. And to call the workers felons, and let the employers skate, well, it's punitive in the extreme, and unfair. This entire situation takes two to tango, and one of the dancers is permitted to waltz off the floor, while the other is beaten down and dragged away.

[newportdadde]

5. Depends. How many are registered voters, how many are pro-life.

I could actually see a large portion of the latino vote going for Republicans over issues like abortion, if the majority are Catholic.

Also remember this is a dividing issues for many blue collar workers of the United States, the body which use to be the bread and butter of the Democratic Party. If they see the Republicans as 'protecting their jobs' while the Democratic Party takes a typical DLC stance on this issue as well as other issues I could see a large number of these workers once again voting R in Nov.

[Raiden]

25. I believe Hispanics care more about economic issues

Although they are mostly Catholic and not pro-choice, their primary concerns are consistent with Democratic values. Which is why this movement, which manifested itself almost spontaneously, is utterly amazing and at the same time, horrifying to Republican Corporatists. Hispanics will not allow themselves to be exploited the way the Right wants to. It's amazing that they are about the only ethnic group that has become so mobilized to protect their basic rights since the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s and 70s.

Freedom truly is on the march!

[newportdadde]

37. Perhaps but we see others like lower middle class voters vote

against their own economic interest all the time. I agree logically it should work that way but I wonder if that is how it will actually play out.

[cynatnite]

28. Repukes got a huge chunk of the latino vote in 2004, IIRC

This time around, they may have lost that with this bill. It showed their true colors. I actually see latinos mostly voting dem this time around.

[Virginia Dare]

6. I'm beginning to think Americans actually "get" this issue...

the attempted Demagoguery on the part of the Republicans seems to be falling flat..and I agree with the previous post that the immigrant protest movement is being backed and fueled by big business in a classic attempt at "divide and conquer".

[cynatnite]

10. How can you agree that big business is funding this?

The poster hasn't backed up the statement for one. For another, big business wants them to stay illegal...they get their cheap labor.

[Virginia Dare]

18. It's a distinct possibility in my mind,....

and I think big business wants the guest worker program in the worst way, that way they will keep their cheap labor, and the public will think there is actually something being done about the problem. I'm giving you their rationale, not mine.

[cynatnite]

22. If a person becomes a guest worker...

business will have to recognize them as an employee. That means paying taxes, workman's comp, etc. They'd rather pay an illegal $6 an hour without those pesky little things so it'll increase their profit margin.

You're still wrong.

[sadiesworld]

24. US workers are increasingly unhappy about the outsourcing

of jobs and the insourcing of cheap labor. The politicians would prefer a temporary worker program (note how temp workers are abused in the UAE) to an outcry to seal the borders and deport, IMO.

[Virginia Dare]

30. Then why are they lobbying for it?

besides lots of loopholes can be built in, anyway here's a link.


http://www.gtlaw.com/practices/immigration/congress/updates/109/14b.pdf

[cynatnite]

33. EWIC is not to be trusted...they're in bed with bush and business

EWIC has always emphasized the economic benefits of guest worker programs. In 2002, however, it began to mount an ideological defense as well. EWIC joined forces with the Cato Institute, the conservative/Libertarian think tank whose ideology frames the Bush administration’s legislative agenda

snip:
Following the issuance of the Cato report, EWIC went to the hill to renew its push for guest workers, this time emphasizing the threat posed by the undocumented to national security. Saying that “authorities know very little” about the seven million people without papers in the U.S., it warned that while most just came to work, “those few who wish to do us harm find it easier to hide among their great numbers.”

No undocumented worker from Mexico or Central America has ever been connected with terrorism and those who flew the planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon all came to the U.S. with visas. Nevertheless, an EWIC letter to senators asked, “How can the immigration status quo be tolerated?”

snip:
In proposing alternatives to the guest worker approach to immigration reform, U.S. immigrant groups insist that solutions considered should include those proposed by immigrants. “Why don’t they consult immigrants?” asks Mireya Olvera, of El Oaxaqueño, published in Los Angeles by immigrants from the Mexican state of Oaxaca.

http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Nov2004/bacon1104.html

If you read the whole thing, they want cheap unskilled labor. That's what they want out of this. All I'm reading out of it is they want to continue their exploitation of the immigrant. What needs to be out there is a concerted effort to go after the businesses that employ illegal immigrants and pay a decent wage to EVERYONE.

[Virginia Dare]

34. No argument with you there about EWIC...

but it seems like you are saying I was wrong that they wanted the guest worker program, when in fact they are lobbying for it.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all about their desire to exploit workers by the way.

[cynatnite]

27. Business wants cheap labor

They don't give a rat's ass about the public when they're in bed with the people in charge of everything.

Outsourcing and illegal immigrants gives them a huge profit margin.

Their ratinale is greed.

[kentuck]

12. Can illegal immigrants register to vote ?

I don't see any instant benefit...

[cynatnite]

14. I believe the repukes got a huge chunk of the latino vote in 2004

This bill they tried to force through has and will cost them dearly.

[EFerrari]

39. No, that's been debunked. Junior did no better in 2004

than he did in 2000.

[MADem]

23. You've got illegal workers in this country who have been here for

decades. Their "anchor babies" were born here, can vote, and are having kids themselves. It's a not insignificant sector. Also, imagine if your historical ethnic group was in similar straits. While there can be many views on the actual ISSUE of undocumented workers, calling them all felons because the US left the door open, while allowing the employers who exploited the cheap labor to get off scott-free does not square with the American idea of fairness.

It's like blaming, and punishing, the teenage girl for getting pregnant, while slapping the teenage father on the shoulder and bellowing "Good man!!!"

[Julius Civitatus]

36. Legal immigrants CAN'T VOTE either

Only full citizens (by birth or naturalization) can register to vote in the USA.

I don't see the immediate benefit either.

[C_U_L8R]

29. The more Republicans talk...

about the immigration issue.. the clearer it is that
Republicans are truly Racist. Their overt stance ...
(and even in subtler language)... they are hateful
and dismissive of immigrants (especially spanish immigrants)
Republican bigotry is hard to miss... but we can thank them
for putting a bright spotlight upon it.

Never seen a more AWFUL group of people.. ever.. yuck

[Onlooker]

35. Big business and Republicans had no role in this great social movement

If anything they were organized by Spanish language radio and television, and the issue is about civil rights, a Democratic issue. It sounds like there are some people here who regard illegal immigrants as a problem, when in fact they could be our salvation from the era of dangerous Republican politics.

If the illegals are given rights and integrated into the system, it will benefit all of us and help protect jobs, too. One reason that illegals take jobs away is that many employers pay them less than minimum wage, knowing that the illegals are reluctant to speak up.

Also, it's absurd to think Republicans are behind the protests. The Republicans have zero ability to organize a protest, and certainly the immigrant community would not fall for such nonsense. The immigrants went out to protest because there civil rights are at stake.

For every Democrat, these words should still resonate:

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. They can kiss their hopes for Hispanic support goodbye.

The Repugs with their Draconian and obviously racist attempt to fortify their redneck base has cost them any chance of winning the Hispanic vote - probably for generations.