This was sent to me a fellow Democrat...

[Stand and Fight]

Dear President Bush:

I'm about to plan a little trip with my kids and extended family, and I
would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the border
from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements.

I know you can help with this. I plan to skip all the legal stuff like
visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle
those
things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your
buddy,
President Vicente Fox, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know
that I
will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might
need, whether I use them or not.
3. All government forms need to be printed in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.
5. Schools need to include classes on U.S. culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the U.S. flag flying on the top of the flag
pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy
access to government services.
9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort
to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo
from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers
speak English.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on
my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any
complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and
don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.
13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and
never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place
on the economy.

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things
for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that Pres.
Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely. However, if he
gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting with your V.P.

Thank you so much for your kind help.

Sincerely,
Pam....AKA Maria


I'm not quite sure how to respond to this. However, I did chuckle reading the bit about the vice president. For the most part I find it small-minded.

ON EDIT: I think I will respond... I'm hoping DUers will help me refute it so that I can send a counter-response with facts -- not horse-shit speculation.

[northzax]

1. don't respond, it's not worth it

but if you do feel the need, ask what job and undocumented worker in the US has that she wants.

[Faux pas]

2. We give the illegals here all of the things on the list. Don't ask

me why. Legal citizens don't get all those benefits. Freebies for the undocumented is why California's budget has been so messed up for decades.

[EFerrari]

4. That's simply untrue. The problems in CA are a mostly result of

Prop 13, not the cushy lifestyle we lavish on undocumented workers. :sarcasm:

[Faux pas]

7. Okay, I won't argue with that. n/t

[redqueen]

19. Nice.

Enjoy your stay.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

3. Hateful

but here is what I wonder. How much of this is true and how much can be debunked? I have no idea of the truth of the matter.

[Stand and Fight]

12. That is the same thing I was left wondering.

When she sent it to me I was taken aback to say the least. I still was left wondering how much of it is true and how much is false. So, I figured I would place it on DU and see what the people here have to say. I have a gut feeling that a good amount of it is hyperbole and outright falsehood.

[Clark2008]

13. Snort

I have to ask why you have a picture of a T-Rex with Barbara Bush's hairdo...


:rofl:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

20. Dude!

That is the fearsome T-Grannie!

And that is MY hairdo, carefully photoshopped onto the fearsome T-Rex. Now don't be criticizing my grey hair or I'll whop you with my tiny little forearms!

T-Grannie

[Clark2008]

27. LOL!!!

I somehow suspect you a much more beautiful.

[Arkansas Granny]

28. Oh, Grannie! That's great!

:hi:

[ABaker]

47. See post #46

[Bridget Burke]

5. Tell this "fellow Democrat" that you are tired of Right Wing spam.

Lots of folks have been posting this all over the web.

www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en%7Clang_fr%7Clang_de%7Clang_it%7Clang_sv&q=%22from+Pres.+Fox+to+leave+me+alone%22&lr=lang_en%7Clang_fr%7Clang_de%7Clang_it%7Clang_sv

It was discussed here in detail quite recently.

[Stand and Fight]

15. Yeah... It is pretty disgusting.

I have been given pause to wonder more than a few times how much of a Democrat she is... I was somewhat more involved in the county party until they said I may be too liberal to be county chairman because I attended last summer's anti-war vigil in OKC. Thoroughly disgusting and quite disappointing.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. I'd ignore it

Like you, I believe it is small minded. There are numerous Hispanics who have recently moved to northwest Arkansas, and by and large the ones I am in contact with are learning English, buying houses, paying taxes, etc. Since Tyson was fined for hiring illegals, I can't say that all the Hispanics I deal with are here legally. But the ones who are here are contributing to the economy. One reason we don't have the "gray economy" in my particular town is that the contractors and independent builders are NOT giving into temptation to hire illegals and shaft them on wages, etc. One reason, I think, is because of the Tyson incident. It was well publicized that the company was heavily fined. Could strict enforcement of labor laws help with the immigration problem? I think it could.

[Stand and Fight]

18. I was just speaking with someone about this the other day...

I strongly believe that the way to fix the illegal immigration problem in this country -- and not just from Mexico either -- is to go after the bastards who hire the illegals. Make them pay extraordinarily hefty fines and I guarantee that will put an end to this nonsense. I do not agree with putting up a stupid fence or mass deportations. This country was founded due to immigration. Immigrants have made huge contributions to this country, and I am quite sure that they were not all here legally initially.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

53. I have antecdotal evidence that enforcement against employers

acts as a deterrant. Here in NW Arkansas, there has been a huge influx of Hispanics. Tyson was fined and some managers were fired (or maybe worse) for hiring some illegals a few years back. I know that it made a big splash on the local news. My husband now works in construction, and he hasn't seen contractors and builders hiring illegals-I'm wondering if the Tyson enforcement has kept this from happening.

[EFerrari]

This is racist crap.

There are very few "free" healthcare services and the ones that are left are mostly crap.

Spanish is a co-equal language by treaty in those territories that we took from Mexico in a war of agression.

I am not aware that only Mexican children are provided with hot meals at school :eyes:

Undocumented workers do pay taxes and they contribute to SS accounts they will never be able to collect on. They also contribute to the economy as consumers.

Because of the danger of deportation, they in fact do not have easy access to government services and little or no recourse to law enforcement.

/typos

[Stand and Fight]

30. Thank you, sfexpat2000...

You are helping me craft a response to this nonsense.

[RaleighNCDUer]

34. Not to mention that the income tax that they do not pay

they wouldn't pay anyway because of their criminally low wages. If they were legal at the same wage rate, they'd get everything back in tax returns and probably an Earned Income Credit besides.

[EFerrari]

35. That's right. n/t

[Extend a Hand]

8. Here is a good reply letter to that one

from George Ure's UrbanSurvival site: http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm

In response to the "Reader Vacation Plans" story, send in by a reader yesterday, I've been getting some fairly angry email. Example:

"That is the dumbest piece of trailer trash, racist s..t I have seen hithereto on your service. For the record, I am an immigrant, legal and white.

1. Out of those 12 million, 6 million are non Mexican, so why do we only talk about Mexicans? Has anyone gone after 100's of thousands of Irish illegals, just for one? 2. This country constantly, over history, has roiled against minority groups, be it the Irish, Italians, Jews, Catholics or others. (I'm neither) All of them were well integrated over time and most of them have made a contribution and increased diversity in this place that probably can accomodate another 200 million easily. 3. It is the capitalistic system that benefits from this and keeps the profit by charging us 45$ an hour and paying them $5 if that or stiffing them. If they would withhold taxes and submit Social Security there would be no problem. They do it for everyone else, why not the illegals? Is it the immigrants fault that they want a better life? Or biz's that employ them? 4. Mr. Fox cannot chain them, nor would we want a fence with shooting devices a la East Germany (or Israel for that matter). 5. No administration ever has dealt with the issue because biz did not want it done. 6.These people make a contribution with their sweat. It is the biz that does not withhold taxes nor pay social security to save money and increase profit. 7. Perhaps they are taking their country back, has ever anyone thought of that? Our forefathers killed the Indians and stole their land, they drove out the Mexicans. Why are we surprised when they come back? 8. They consume, and pay sales taxes, and grow the economy. 9. If they come here after high school, the country has saved at least 100,000 in schooling expenses which is probably 5 years of their income.

It is easy to solve the problem: a) Legalize the present "aliens" and give them id's and chance for Citizenship after the standard 5 years. b) Make them pay maybe an extra 5% income tax for 5 years until they become citizen to comp us the people. c)Fine any employing firm at least at year salary at minimum wage and the same for the person that hires them and add 5 years jail for anyone hiring illegals. Word will spread so fast to abroad via the family connections and nobody will come anymore. No border vigilantes needed. d) If you have to deal with a contractor, make him sign a contract that says no illegals allowed on your property.

The reason this did and will not get resolved is pure greed, nothing else for the solutions are quick, uncomplicated and simple. Biz is cashing in and the rest of us pays with less jobs and higher taxes, but please don't blame the immigrants vote out your politian who doesn't help with a reasonable solution.

Perhaps, in the interest of fair and balanced reporting, you would like to publish this letter as well.

Disgusted in New England"

[Common Sense Party]

11. I'd like to see some documentation of the country of origin of

all these "illegals." I highly doubt that half of them come from somewhere other than Mexico or Central America.

I'm sure many people from all parts of the world fly in legally and then overstay their visas, but I doubt very much there are 6 million of them.

[Stand and Fight]

23. True...

I cannot tell you how many Canadians I knew when I lived in Washington state who had been here for YEARS illegally. However, how soon I forget -- they are fair-skinned and not brown people. :(

[RebelOne]

14. Please do not use the term "trailer trash."

It offends me. I live in a mobile home and people seem to think that we mobile home dwellers are racist, beer-swilling, ignorant rednecks.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

22. I agree

Most of my students live in trailers and none of them are trash.

And I've lived in a few in my time as well. But I do swill beer.

[RebelOne]

24. Thanks. I don't think that the OP refers to Mexicans

as "wetbacks" or "spics." So why use the term "trailer trash" about those who live in trailers?

[anarch]

36. and I live in an apartment, but I am an ignorant, beer-swilling redneck

I'd like to think I'm not so very racist, at least. Anyway, agreed that people shouldn't use such derogatory and classist slurs.

[Extend a Hand]

59. I agree that was not a good choice of words

but did not want to change somebody else's letter. The points he made in response were, I thought good ones in spite of this.

I should have put a disclaimer on that sentence.

[Stand and Fight]

21. That is a fantastic reply...

I think I may send that out in an effort to counter the idiocy of her mail. Thank you so much! While I don't agree with all of its contents it is a far more level-headed approach than some silly vacation allusion. :yourock:

ON EDIT: This reply was to the post by "sad_one". DU's forum software screwed up...

[jeanarrett]

9. This was posted on DU the other day. The poster is no longer here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=902320&mesg_id=902320

[Stand and Fight]

25. Good. I hope they got a tombstone for their idiocy. n/t

[TallahasseeGrannie]

31. But what I want is to read a point by point rebuttal

because for all I know these things are true. I'm asking for an education here. I don't experience problems with immigration in my community. I know absolutely nothing about it.

If this has been passing around the web, somebody must have rebutted it at some point, somewhere. I did a Google on it but found nothing.

T-Grannie

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. The points may be true to a degree, but not telling the entire

story.

The effect of the post is to imply that the undocumented workers are living high on the hog, when the reality is that the person who wrote that crap wouldn't change places with any of them.

All you have to do is consider every one of those points from the point of view of the immigrant, and think where you would be in their place. No driver's license is not a flouting of US law -- it's the fear of being deported if they go to the DMV. The paying no taxes is a flat-out lie -- they pay all the taxes we do except the income tax, and at their wage rates if they did pay income tax, they wouldn't pay income tax; they'd get a full refund and many of them an Earned Income Credit as well.

It scans like it makes sense; dissect each point and you will find a lie, a racist assumption, or a strawman argument.

[Bridget Burke]

55. If everyone could get drivers' licenses....

After passing the tests & showing proof of insurance--there would be far less danger of wrecks caused by those who didn't know our traffic laws. And are uninsured.

[RaleighNCDUer]

56. Exactly. nt

[wryter2000]

10. Ask him if he plans to pick asparagus on his vacation

Ask him if he plans to clean hotels rooms and pick crops for a few bucks an hour while he's on vacation.

[redqueen]

17. Why? Those types don't bother using their brains.

Might as well bark back at a dog.

Then again, that REPLY ALL function is pretty satisfying. And who knows, maybe it'd jump-start some synapses.

[helderheid]

16. from what I understand, Mexico has an excellent health care system

and I think they do cover everyone - not just citizens - am I wrong? Jeebus that is a small minded letter. Don't respond.

[Stand and Fight]

26. It's extraordinarily small-minded....

I have yet to decide if I should respond. I'm hoping DUers will help me refute it so that I can send a counter-response with facts -- not horse-shit speculation.

[Phx_Dem]

29. Please don't think I agree with the implications

presented in this fake e-mail.

As for undocumented workers (UWs) in AZ, they are eligible for AHCCCS, (low income health ins.) and Kids Care (kids health ins.) as well as the use of emergency rooms and urgent care centers.

Children of UWs receive education at public schools, as well as free lunches if they qualify.

UWs receive free translation services when dealing with any government agency.


UWs get free food and other stuff through WIC just like any low income person.

[Flavin]

32. And, so?

Would you rather have the family members of UWs hacking TB phlem on your babies or life partner.

Would you rather have UW kids rolling jr and susie for their lunch money because they have none or no lunch program?

WOuld you rather have packs of the UW kids roaming the streets picking through your house while at work instead of trying to learn one of the hardest languages in the world, American English?

We are not supplying benifits, we are buying PEACE in our streets.

They are here, always have been, ALWAYS WILL BE.
Our economy demands it.

Flavin

[Phx_Dem]

39. I told you not to assume anything

so to answer your questions, no, no and no.


"We are not supplying benifits, we are buying PEACE in our streets."

that's kind of a racist thing to say.

[Flavin]

57. nope

The thought is not racist.

Social welfare systems here, in Europe, in any country insure the middle (where I'm barely parked in the lower level) and the lower socio economic classes get just enough from the system so as not to shake up the power structure of the rich. Keep just healty enough to be the workforce neccessary for the upper classes security and life style.

Our system of welfare, healthfare, and others insures that the have nots have just enough to not take it from the haves.

It's a cynical thought process, but it's mine.

Its a class issue not a race issue. Substitute whatever classification marker for "UW" you want, make them black and it's the 1950/60/70's, make them yellow and it's the 1880/90s, make them irish catholic and its the 1840-1890's, make them okie and it's the 1920/30's. Whatever.

You see what you wish to see, I guess.

As a secondary effect it pits the middle and the lower social economic levels against one another. Look at the rights' spin on the marches occuring now. RW radio is pitching it as a grab for your children's birthrites, do you actually think the CEO of Ford or Monsanto is really worried about these marches? They are secure in their ivory penthouses. They want joe middle class not to think about joe middle classes simularities with jose'/wong/sergie/patty UW. It might make Joe Middle Class unhappy and ask for change.

That's what this is REALLY about.

Flavin

[Phx_Dem]

62. OK, according to you the stmt was not racist

I'll take your word for it. I don't really get what you are saying in your post, though I think you are focusing too much on "class". I don't see how "social welfare systems" keep any one from doing anything.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

52. You had me until

"buying peace in our streets."

Are they really such an incendiary people?

[Flavin]

58. Yeah,

A little florid.

(See my response post above)

As the upper levels of the power structure see it, we are incidiarily prone.

Get ewnough unhappy middle and lower classes and they might have a revolution. So thought the Czar.

Flavin

[EFerrari]

33. Have you ever tried to use the healthcare services or get food?

I don't know about Arizona, but here in CA, most of those programs are run with the intention of discouraging people and making them go away.

When my husand was ill and I stayed home to care for him. we were forced to use public healthcare here. It was horrendous. I actually debated with myself whether I should try to get one clinic shut down before they killed someone.

I know a lot of undocumented people. Some of them have relatives that are citizens, or have green cards. They have to be very careful about when and how they interact with government because being picked up could result in detention. You can be held for months without being able to contact your family. If you are deported, you may be leaving your kids behind.

It's not a picnic.

[Phx_Dem]

44. Yeh, I know the programs are understaffed

I sure would not want to have to use them. Here in Phoenix though we have a phenomenal public hospital, called Maricopa Medical Center, it is a teaching hospital and 1 of only three in phx that has a level 1 trauma center.

[EFerrari]

45. That's good to hear. California's healthcare system must

have collapsed years ago and nobody noticed. There are a few stalwarts doing their best but on balance, it's outright dangerous. They nearly killed my husband.

[Phx_Dem]

49. I believe it

I learned a valuable lesson over the past few years when close members of my family contracted terminal illnesses. I realized that the family must, as strongly as possible, be an advocate for the patient. Even in so called good hospitals I watched drs do all kinds of stupid stuff, not do all the tests necessary etc.

I can just imagine what it's like for low income people trying to deal with a huge bureaucracy.

[bunkerbuster1]

37. Perfect four word response to this POS letter--

"Fine. So leave already."

[Stand and Fight]

38. That's rich! I like it...

I may combine it with some of the other responses I am developing. Let it be the final line so to speak.

[Katherine Brengle]

40. For the record, the US has no official language.

So all that crap about people being pissed that services and paperwork are offered in Spanish are just xenophobes.

[EFerrari]

41. Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo makes Spanish co-equal

with English in the territories we "won" from Mexico.

Not that we ever actually honor treaties. lol

[Katherine Brengle]

43. Damn right, never mind the fact that...

there is no legal argument against offering government services and documents in every language spoken on the face of the earth--English is not the official language of the United States any more than Christianity is our official language.

I hate this majority rule/winner-take-all bullshit.

The US honor treaties? HA! :rofl:

[RaleighNCDUer]

48. And unofficially, first generation may or may not speak English,

the second generation will speak both English and the mother tongue, and the third generation will speak only English and will have to learn their grandparents' language in High School.

As it has always been.

[EFerrari]

61. So true. In our family, it was. I'm 2nd Gen and speak both.

All of my cousins speak both, some of us have been official court interpretors and half of us have advanced degrees.

2/3 of our kids have middle school Spanish at best. My two have trouble at Taco Belle.

[ABaker]

46. Try these web sites:

http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/living.html (a Mexican online magazine)

http://www.mexpatriate.net/ (articles by Amercians living in Mexico)

http://www.solutionsabroad.com/ (an "all inclusive" web site)

Each of these sites describes the rights immigrants living in Mexico have and will show that email you got to be totally bogus.

[greenbriar]

50. send them this link

http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

[renate]

54. that is phenomenal (though related to Iraq, not immigration)

Some of those pictures are absolutely devastating.

There should probably be a "graphic" warning, though--there are a couple pictures I won't be able to get out of my head. One in particular isn't even bloody--just undoubtedly final and completely heartbreaking.

[Horse with no Name]

51. The "twin" of this email was sent to me in January

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=108024&mesg_id=108024

[Ms. Clio]

60. Calling it "small-minded" is actually generous

And here is a link that debunks at least some of that xenophobic horseshit and her blog is great, in general.

For example:

"The vast majority of Hispanics/Latinos in the US speak English as a first language. The Pew Center for Hispanic research shows that by the third generation, all Latin American immigrant descendents - 100 percent of them - are English-first, English dominant. Zero percent speak Spanish as a first or primary language by the third generation." (emphasis mine)