So play this out with me... VERY important question here....

[slybacon9]

let's say our country came under a attack, just hypothetically (and not that i believe it would happen this way) but kinda like we did to Iraq. Someone attacks us trying to remove our government from power. They are killing our civilians daily and torturing innocent people we know, bombing the places we love and marching down the street.... don't forget the occasional accidental daisy cutter on the wedding party "mishap"... Anyway, but the attacking countries all say they are doing it for us. To give our democracy back to us... to liberate us... to remove an evil dictator who manufactures weapons of mass destruction and supports terrorists... to bring us back to stong nation we once were before this evil administration took over.... But then you also know that the attacking country has some major problems of its own, and you aren't sure of their intentions..........

My question is:

What do you do? Which side do you join up with?

(AND NO LEAVING TOWN BTW... let's say there's checkposts curfews at every step of the way so you can't get out....)


(Some initial thoughts: The "insurgency's" more ardent members would have to be Bush loyalists and old military democrat and republican, followed by most of the right wing. And then followed by people like me who don't want to see the people i love killed. But then i also would want him removed, because at this point he is a world threat, a liar, a murderer, and a theif. One of the conclusions by playing this out is that we can surely see that a civil war would be inevitable, with those of us wanting him out and the violence to end, and those that believe he is worth protecting or that don't want the attacking countries taking over our government and killing our people.)

[electropop]

1. Fascinating analogy

Let's hope it doesn't come to that; and that W's WWIII plans are foiled by impeachment.

[stop the bleeding]

2. interesting thoughts

WWJD? :shrug:

[Crunchy Frog]

3. The right wingers would be the biggest collaborators.

They like to talk big, but they run like bunnies when it comes time to put their money where their mouth is. Besides, there's money to be made in collaborating. I'm sure they would find some way to justify it to themselves. They'd convince themselves it was what Jesus wanted.

[slybacon9]

15. so factions of our government would side with the enemy so that they might

profit off the deal...

yup. i totally agree.

[hvn_nbr_2]

17. Exactly. They'd all have "other priorities" or "anal boils" or some such.

[magellan]

4. As a woman, I'd probably be doing the same some Iraqi women are doing

Laying low, doing everything humanly possible to keep my family together and out of danger, and writing a blog to expose life in an occupied nation for the unjust horror it really is.

[slybacon9]

9. good answer... now, what if they tell you its ok now to be naked all day?

that you don't have to dress the way you have your whole life... It's all good now, no need to hide it... go ahead and take off your clothes!

[Dunvegan]

11. Excelent point, slybacon9...

...and fascinating visual!

[magellan]

12. Oh, duh...Got it now

"You're the terrorist here, not me!"

lol

Seriously, I don't get you. The US has been taken over by nudists??

on edit: absolutely brilliant. I'd be plenty scared.

[slybacon9]

14. very interesting response! so let's go there...

let's say yeah, compared to our country, the attackers seem like nudists. and in fact, because you are wearing all the clothing you are wearing, they trust you less and less, and as the war goes on... the soldiers, who are already pissed that they have to do this in the first place, are coming to despise your clothing more and more because it reminds them of all the pain they are forced to endure because you won't just take your goddam clothes off.

um, now what?

[magellan]

16. They'd have to do something first

I wouldn't give in. I'm no appeaser. I have a habit of standing by my principles to the point of being anal sometimes, particularly when wronged. So I'd KEEP wearing clothes.

Okay, I have to qualify this. If there were threats of violence being made if I didn't stop wearing clothes -- if I saw other women being physically attacked for not doing it as women in Iraq are for not wearing hijab -- I'd probably try to avoid situations where I had to go without clothes. BUT, I'm not sure the analogy is good between nudists and fundamentalist islam attire. Having to wear head covering doesn't invoke shame or embarrassment in Iraqi woman; it's the loss of freedom they oppose. Forcing someone who's used to wearing clothes to run around naked on the other hand would be quite an embarrassing situation.

[slybacon9]

18. true, but also...

"Having to wear head covering doesn't invoke shame or embarrassment in Iraqi woman"

But, and i only say this because i know some muslim women and i was in Egypt for some time, having to take the headwear off does invoke those feelings for some. Just as you said going naked would...

anyway, i know what you are saying and i don't mean to get into small things but it is all interesting to think about. I think it is always very important to map this onto ourselves as much as we can in order to reach more compassionate levels. thanks for playing along!

[magellan]

25. Wow, I hadn't thought of it that way

"because i know some muslim women and i was in Egypt for some time, having to take the headwear off does invoke those feelings for some. Just as you said going naked would..."

This was something I knew but didn't connect with for some reason...and ironically I feel ashamed and embarassed as a result!

Thank you, slybacon. This was interesting and an eye-opener for me. Please do it again sometime! :toast:

[Crunchy Frog]

35. Our occupation of Iraq has provoked the opposite situation though.

We've ended up empowering Islamic fundamentalists who are now enforcing Sharia law. Many women are now being forced to wear burquas who used to wear ordinary western style clothing.

[helderheid]

21. they're Dutch?

sorry, I couldn't resist. :)

[TomInTib]

5. I would fight the invaders, it's my country

As Vo Nyugen Giap replied when Macnamara asked how the N Vietnamese had persevered in spite of horrific casualty rates, "It is our country".

It's as simple as that.

[Dunvegan]

6. I know you said "No Way Out"...but I'd try anyway.

If my "Houdini Skillz" failed me, I think I'd feel much like the French under the Nazi Occupation.

I'd begin by "slowing down the machine"...i.e., monkeywrenching in a passive aggressive way: pouring oil in a mailbox, not doing my job well and making paperwork extremely arcane to understand, being polite to the occupying soldiers but always "misunderstanding" what they asked "innocently"...etc.

If the occupation went on over several years, I'd begin to support the US resistance faction closest to my beliefs...with aid and comfort.

Any longer than several years, and I'd probably join that particular native US resistance movement underground.

[Sammy Pepys]

7. Honestly, it's a tough question.

If I'm in a country being ruled by a dictator, I'm not so sure that I'm weeping over his removal.

Of course, I'm not thrilled at all with a scenario like the one you describe either way. I'm certainly not going to put my life on the line to defend the dictator, but I'm probably not going to be all that interested in the invaders end of the deal either. If I chose to take up arms insurgent-style, I'd have to figure out exactly what the aim is.

I don't know.

[sendero]

8. This is a real no-brainer...

... IMHO, Americans would band together and do whatever it takes to drive the invaders out. Just as almost any other country would do.

[slybacon9]

10. but "what if" you despise your own leaders, and what your country is doing

to the world.

[Dunvegan]

13. Well, if it's an "the old bastids is out, but the new bastids is in"...

...situation, I'd say you'd have a free-for-all situation.

You then support the faction that may eventually come to power that is closest to your beliefs.

[sendero]

29. I think..

.... if it had really come to that point the people would have already taken up arms against their own government.

Seriously, this falls under the "I can say whatever about my mother but if you say something wrong about her I'm going to kick your ass" line of human reactions.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

19. WOLVERINES!!!!

[slybacon9]

33. You so win.

You pulled the Swayze card.


PS. Nice lettermans jacket on the dude with the bazooka.

[Jose Diablo]

20. I fight the invaders

no doubt about it.

Bu$h will be gone soon enough as well as the Republican party. As for any force 'liberating' America. Screw that. There will be a lot lead going their way. They got another think coming.

Edit:Why do I think I have to respond to every lame brained thread? Crap, there won't be anyone invading us anytime soon. The scenario is part of a movie, right?

[fleabert]

22. Fight the invading armies- Bush is gone no matter what after 08

now a new head springing up in his place is a voting issue, a Diebold issue, a grassroots issue, a choice issue, an equal rights issue, I could go on ad nauseum. Bottom line, we have a very civilized exchange of power every 2-4-8 years, depending on the votes- but it happens every time we have an election, on all levels of government. All it relies on is people voting. Diebold wouldn't mean shit if we had 80-90% turnout.

IMHO.

[Just Me]

23. *CRY*

:cry:

LEAVE US ALONE!!!!! YOU'RE NOT A HELPER, A COMFORT, A SAVIOR!!!! YOU ARE A DESTROYER!!!!

[leftstreet]

24. What about the Diplomacy Phase? Trade BUSH CABAL for MANGOES

Problem solved.

:silly:

[porphyrian]

26. I'd want to be the heroic patriot, whatever that called for...

...but I'd probably just do whatever it would take to survive.

[Jacobin]

27. Pretty much what is happening in IraqNam right now

Join forces to fight the invaders and in your spare time, blow up your opponents. Whack a Mole

[KansDem]

28. Not only that but the invading army is beating up your teenage son...

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2696891?htv=12

[Hobarticus]

30. Well, once our govt's gone, they'll probably be staying...

So I'd have to resist, and resisit hard. Our government chnages every few years, and the political cycle swings every so often, so this too shall pass. But an invader? No, they'd have to go, period.

Good post. Smart question.

[YouthInAsia]

31. Read this blog post. Spells this exact scenario out.

Start at 5th paragraph down

http://comearmageddon.blogspot.com/2005/12/resistance-fighter-or-terrorist-they.html

I totally agree with the scenario in this blog.

[slybacon9]

32. Well. You know what would happen...

All the dems would start kicking ass and protecting the country as some insurgent militia... you know, PATRIOTS... and all those goobers with the WE WILL NEVER FORGET crying eagle bumper stickers would wave white flags and undergo training as fluffers for the new regime.

[cynatnite]

34. Fight the invaders, but

I wouldn't go to a crowded marketplace where my fellow Americans are and blow them up. Doesn't seem like it would help our cause much.

[lectrobyte]

36. Wolverines!