Boy, I Sure Hope That When *I* Get Outsourced, *I* Can Go Pick Lettuce

[matcom]

in 100 Degree heat. THAT will save my family. Good thing *I* have THAT job to fall back on!

when *I* grow up *I* wanna be a migrant worker and pick lettuce for a living. THANK GAWD work is plentiful here in 'MURICA'!!!!!!11

:sarcasm:

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. I hear the streets are paved with gold and that everything is free

because there's so much money, we stopped using it.

[Deja Q]

2. I'd rather not be outsourced.

But if I was to migrate, where'd I migrate to?

[LostinVA]

3. That's actually a good point -- the Mexicans have been outsourced, too

My Dad is in textiles.... very anti-NAFTA, of course.

So, jobs went to Mexico... they got too "expensive"... so the jobs went to the Caribbean and Guatmela... some of those got too expensive... so they went to China. Seriously, Mexican manufacturing jobs have also been hard hit. I swear, the workers from both countries should join with the Canadians -- we could almost write our own ticket...

[blondeatlast]

11. A friend mentioned about this to me the other day.

They were actually encouraging me to buy clothes made in Mexico because they had better working conditions there than in many other countries.

I don't really know if this is the case, but on the relativism scale, it almost makes sense.

Again I must ask--where's the sadly shaing head smiley? I need it so often anymore.

[LostinVA]

15. They are indeed correct

The Mexican textile workers were too expensive -- they cost too much. A few bucks a day, semi-decent conditions, cut into profits more than 40 cents a day, slavery conditions in China, etc., do

My Dad's been in the business since 1963... he knows what's up.....

[arcos]

22. The same thing is happening in Central America...

Some textile plants are closing and moving to China, and according to Central American free traders the solution to stop this is CAFTA. This is exactly what happened a few weeks ago in Costa Rica, a big plant closed down and it was blamed on CAFTA's delays. Of course, it's bullshit because there's no way Mexico and Central America, even with mostly poor labor standards, can compete with China's slave wages.

[LostinVA]

49. My Dad flies to Costa Rica about twice a month

To visit two American shirt plants there. One is closing and moving to China this summer... "cheaper." OMG.

[Warpy]

4. I'd love to go pick lettuce

stay outside in the fresh air and sunshine, smell the earth. I'd probably have to live on muscle relaxants and pain pills to do it, but if it paid enough to live on, I'd be pleased to try.

That's the problem. You see, it's not the job, it's the WAGES.

[sheelz]

16. I'd love to pick lettuce too,

but there are only so many lettuce jobs. :hi:

[hatrack]

51. But John McCain says you wouldn't do it for $50 an hour

In fact, he made the mistake of saying this in front of a union audience, only to be met with shouts of "I'll take it! and "Sign me up!"

[acmejack]

5. Are we going to pile on the people without college degrees again tonight?

It was a lot of fun last evening when you explained the facts of life to everyone.

edit: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=907715

[Cobalt Violet]

8. It's become the nightly sport of the Lexus liberals.

:puke:

[Strelnikov_]

17. And The Cheap Labor Liberals And The Neoliberals

[matcom]

24. i drive a Ford Ranger small pickup

and my coveted Scooter (that gets 75mpg)

some of us actually PRACTICE what we preach. you know, compassion and all that.....

[Cobalt Violet]

26. Oh, please... I'm trying to keep my dinner down.

:spray:

[QC]

34. YOU'RE SO BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[LostinVA]

50. I drive a car that gets 50+ to the gallon... AND runs on alternative fuel

[Gabi Hayes]

6. McCain'll pay you fifty bucks an hour

[sheelz]

18. How many hours per week?

[Nobody]

47. No he won't, he rescinded that job offer

when the American workers in the audience jumped at it.

It was for an entire season, and if it's like other jobs of that type, it's likely to be when there's daylight enough to see.

His exact words were: "Not one day, a whole season. You can't handle it."

Nice. He just insulted the American work force. I saw this on CNN last week.

[LostinVA]

48. I'd pick lettuce for that pay -- who the heck wouldn't?

[Cobalt Violet]

7. Don't you mean "if *I* grow up "?

:silly:

[mdmc]

9. I'd do it for 50.oo

I heard McCain was offerin 50.oo per hour to pick veggies.

[juajen]

10. Funny you should say that

My five brothers, sister and I picked cotton all summer long for many years. My parents were alternately poor and so-so, so this was a way for us to contribute. My Uncle owned the fields, so it wasn't exactly slave labor, but he hired relatives and anybody that would pick the cotton. Everyone was paid by the bag and we all worked all summer, picking whatever needed picking.

Since when did everybody forget where we came from? I am a mother of five children, and I can tell you, there is no chore messier or harder than raising children and keeping house, and that includes picking cotton. Before I was old enough to get a regular job, I also cleaned neighbors houses and weeded their gardens. My children cut and cleaned yards to make their spending money, and that was before weedeaters and blowers. They work very hard today, also. One son is a cabinetmaker who works in an unairconditioned, horribly dusty shop in Florida, and the other is a welder (also in bldg with no air-conditioner). They both work about sixty hours a week, with unpaid vacations in that pitiful right-to-work state.

I am sick of hearing what Americans won't do, because I know what I have done. This white middle-class woman of French-English origins has worked hard all my life, and so do my children.

BTW, before they became cabinetmaker and welder, both sons put roofs on houses in Texas. Hot enough for you?

[nonconformist]

12. Why do you keep posting this flamebait matcom?

I usually very much enjoy your posts, but lately...

But what do I know? I'm just an uneducated blue collar nothing.

[ShaneGR]

19. He definitely doesn't understand the views of US Labor Unions

Which btw are the largest contributor of money to liberal causes in the United States over the last, oh, 50 years. Most of the immigration argument has been completely divided on racial lines. But the fact remains that a good % of immigrated citizens (legally) are in those US Labor unions. Especially in the hospitality sector. It's not impossible to request a workers visa to come here. The problem is the system, and how illegal workers affect an average US worker. And not just farming, because only a retard (McCain) would limit illegal immigration to the farming sector. And the wage the illegal worker is getting, which could drive the wage a regular US worker makes. Not to mention healthcare.

[matcom]

23. grew up in the hotel/restaurant industy

sorry that i "don't understand" :eyes:

i'll stick to MY guns thanks very much. and no, there isn't much Union influence in the hospitality industry at all.

get YOUR facts straight.

[ShaneGR]

28. I've never seen you talk about US workers...

You consistently talk about enjoying your traveling around the world where all of these huge things have taken place and you have consistently backed cheap labor. The "Hospitality" industry in my mind includes hotels, rentals, cleaning services, and many of the large scale laundry companies who service everything. You are trying to tell me that more illegal workers work on US farms than in hospitality?

I read your other thread, I just didn't post in it. You don't really invite real discussion, you just flame with no thought to the real facts.

[matcom]

29. i don't INVITE cheap labor at all

i want these people to earn a FAIR wage. i abhore the corporations who pay them shit.

maybe you SHOULD start reading.

i just don't want to make them felons. they deserve every chance you and I have. it isn't THEIR fault they were born in the wrong country.

they leave their wives and kids to come here and try and make things better. I say let them. they are more ambitious than 99.9% of US

[LincolnMcGrath]

30. You are not making anyone a felon,

They did it to themselves.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LincolnMcGrath]

33. White Bigot?

Hey zippy, I bailed hay last summer at 36 years old. Got $10 an hour cash because I can work a mow by myself better that most corn fed midwest farm boys. (It's hot up there too!)

I'll work 95% of the population of any goddamn country into the ground, any day!

Stop projecting when you speak of a perceived lack of ambition of american workers.

Now complete my day by once again sidestepping the issue at hand, and throwing another straw man/attack at me.

[High Plains]

36. They aren't felons, but they would be under the House bill

passed by the Republicans. Do you support that?

[LincolnMcGrath]

37. If you have weed in your house, and tomorrow the Govt decides to

Increase the Penalty and/or Increase Enforcement of current laws, you still had weed in your house to begin with.

But I am a bigot, what do I know?

I do know that claiming "Brown-skinned folks have a special hard work gene", sounds an awful lot like "Black folks have an extra muscle in their legs" to me. :shrug:

[Strelnikov_]

38. 99.9% More Harder Workin'

Guess we're just plain ass inferior.

[LincolnMcGrath]

40. Can you believe it?

:shrug:

[High Plains]

35. Yeah, well, I saw the SEIU and the UFCW marching Monday

in Seattle among the 40,000 who showed up there. So maybe the actual labor unions involved have a different take on it than you.

[sandnsea]

42. Union influence, exactly

Gee Matcom, way to smack yourself right over the head with your own argument.

There's no union influence in the hospitality industry. An inordinant number of illegals work in the hospitality industry.

Can you connect the dots??? Smack, smack.

That's everybody's point. The inordinant number of illegals is WHY there's no union influence which is WHY the wages are so low that citizens can't afford to live in this country and take those jobs.

The solution is to stop pitting workers against each other and come together and get that union influence so people can live on those wages and not use social services, legal or illegal. And demand the same thing for workers in other countries so corporations can stop playing spin the cheap labor bottle.

[Jim Warren]

52. "there isn't much Union influence in the hospitality industry at all"

Guess you have'nt been to Vegas then, a short list of unions involved with OPERATIONS only in the, to use your term, "hotel/restaurant industy". This does not include initial construction


Get YOUR facts straight.



Bartenders & Beverage Local 165
112 West Wyoming Avenue
384-7774

Hotel&Industrial(1780)
Laughlin(897)
501 N. Lamb Blvd
453-4488
453-2360
298-6518

Central Labor Council-COPE
4200 East Bonanza Road
452-8799


Culinary Workers Local 226
1630 South Commerce Street
385-2131

International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 357
4321 East Bonanza Road
452-9357

International Hodcarriers Building & Common Laborers Local 872
4200 East Bonanza Road
452-4440

International Union of Operating Engineers Local 501
301 Deauville Drive
382-8452

International Union of Operating Engineers Local 12
360 Shadow Lane
598-1212

Musicians Local 369 AFM, AFL-CIO
3701 W Vegas Dr, Las Vegas NV 89108
647-3690

Painters Local 159
1701 Whitney Mesa Drive
452-2140

Plasterers & Cement Masons Local 797
4200 East Bonanza Road
452-9199

Plumbers & Pipefitters Local 525
735 North Lamb Boulevard
452-1520

Roofers Local 162
4200 East Bonanza Road
453-5801

Southern Nevada Operating Engineers, Journeyman
6350 Howdy Wells Avenue
643-1212

Southern Nevada Operation & Maintenance Engineers
313 Deauville Drive
385-5005

Teamsters Local 14
303 Wall Street
384-7841

Teamsters Local 995
300 Shadow Lane
385-0995

Teamsters & Truck Drivers Local 631
700 North Lamb Boulevard
453-6310

United Food & Commercial Workers Union Local 711
1201 North Decatur Boulevard
648-7112

[wtmusic]

13. Well since sarcasm isn't paying very well these days

it might be an option

[ShaneGR]

14. Worthless thread, immigration goes both ways

The underlying story is that a Mexican migrant worker will pick lettuce for less than the US minimum wage. And it's nearly impossible to track. The really sad thing is that the farmers who typically hire and house illegal workers don't make that much money either.

Oh, and McCain should have mentioned that the highest employer of illegals in this country is the hospitality sector, not farmers.

[msongs]

21. you oughta check your facts first about farm pay nt

[ShaneGR]

27. Care to elaborate? nt

[leftstreet]

20. Ah. A Progressive Democrats Smackdown.

Must be quittin time out west

:silly:

[goodhue]

25. picking lettuce, cleaning offices . . .

[VolcanoJen]

32. And what really blows my mind...

... is that just about everyone eats at a restaurant from time to time, and that's where you'll find an inordinate amount of illegal workers at any given time.

I've been employed in the restaurant industry for over ten years, and I've watched the decent-paying back-of-the-house jobs snatched from a mostly African-American staff and given, at cut wages, to illegal workers at an alarming rate...

[sandnsea]

41. And legal workers

My husband cleaned offices, hell he actually did do field work in the 70's. I worked as a maid. My daughter bussed tables, cleaned toilets and did aide care for seniors. My son worked in restaurants and on wildfire crews, where half the workers are illegal. It is not just illegals who do this work. The much much smarter approach is to fight for workers' rights for everybody, everywhere. I would never have thought something so obvious would escape so many DUers.

[Critters2]

44. Actually, I clean my own office

[sandnsea]

39. Why are you pitting worker against worker?

That's exactly what the corporatists want you to do. You're blather is as bad as when the fence builders and deporters start in. Completely misses the point of ALL workers fighting for fair wages and benefits, all over the world. Get a clue Matcom, really, you're not helping.

[Bobbie47]

43. Thank You sandnsea

I agree with everything you said. United we stand divided we fall.

[ninkasi]

45. Or, as a union t-shirt said

United we stand, divided we beg.

[PublicWrath]

46. Will someone here who knows about labor unions and stuff

take some questions? I'm not trying to provoke anybody. I really don't know much about labor unions.

Do smaller businesses remain outside the sphere of union influence?

Or is it only a question of the type of job and whether a labor union exists for that job definition?

If a union that protects a particular job eventually has lots more members than there are jobs to fill, what happens? Does seniority count?
If so, would new members be inclined to move out into freelance work?

And finally, what happens if a local economy is temporarily depressed, and there is little (just for an example) new construction going on? If workers have moved into the relevant unions during a boom? Would union members who have lived there for years be forced to move, because new union members who are also out of work have occupied most of the secondary jobs that people usually take to make do until work picks up?

Again, I don't know much about labor issues. However, though I can see how getting everybody to join unions can protect wage levels, I can't see how unions can create jobs. Especially if we have another recession.

Please allay or confirm my concerns.