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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 11:33 PM
Original message
poll shows Americans divided about attacking Iran
Edited on Thu Apr-13-06 11:57 PM by Douglas Carpenter
TIMES/BLOOMBERG POLL
Doubts About Taking On Tehran
About half those polled support military action if Iran continues its nuclear activity but don't trust President Bush to make the call.
By Doyle McManus, Times Staff Writer
April 13, 2006

“WASHINGTON — Americans are divided over the prospect of U.S. military action against Iran if the government in Tehran continues to pursue nuclear technology — and a majority do not trust President Bush to make the "right decision" on that issue, a Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll has found.

Asked whether they would support military action if Iran continued to produce material that could be used to develop nuclear weapons, 48% of the poll's respondents, or almost half, said yes; 40% said no.

If Bush were to order military action, most respondents said they would support airstrikes against Iranian targets, and about one in four said they would support the use of American ground troops in Iran.”

Link:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-iranpoll13apr13,0,7195484.story?coll=la-home-headlines
______________________________________________

I hate to quote NewsMax and my apologies to admin and the moderators if I am inadvertently breaking any rules. Obviously I am not quoting them because I value them. I'm quoting them because it shows that there are other sources of info predicting a massive bombing campaign against Iran:

"'Big George': The Coming Attack on Iran
Kenneth R. Timmerman, NewsMax.com
Friday, April 14, 2006

WASHINGTON -- Retired Air Force Lt. Gen. Tom McInerney calls it the "Big George" scenario.
According to the man who helped plan the first air war against Saddam in 1991, U.S. aircraft, armed with conventional bunker-buster bombs, would be more than enough to wipe out Iran's nuclear and missile facilities, and cripple its ability to command and control its military forces.

McInerney believes that U.S. air power is so massive, precise, and stealthy, it can effectively disarm Iran with just limited assistance from covert operators on the ground whose task would be to light up enemy targets.

In his "Big George" scenario, the United States would attack 1,000 targets in Iran. Fifteen B2 stealth bombers based in the United States and another 45 F117s and F-22s based in the region would carry out the initial waves of the attack, crippling Iran's long-range radar and strategic air defenses."

link:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/4/13/94944.shtml?s=sp
___________________________________________________

Fishing for a Pretext in Iran

by Juan Cole; March 18, 2006

link: http://www.zmag.org/content/print_article.cfm?itemID=9929

snip:"Supreme Jurisprudent Ali Khamenei has given a fatwa or formal religious ruling against nuclear weapons, and President Ahmadinejad at his inauguration denounced such arms and committed Iran to remaining a nonnuclear weapons state.

In fact, the Iranian regime has gone further, calling for the Middle East to be a nuclear-weapons-free zone. On Feb. 26, Ahmadinejad said:
“We too demand that the Middle East be free of nuclear weapons; not only the Middle East, but the whole world should be free of nuclear weapons.”
Only Israel among the states of the Middle East has the bomb, and its stockpile provoked the arms race with Iraq that in some ways led to the U.S. invasion of 2003. The U.S. has also moved nukes into the Middle East at some points, either on bases in Turkey or on submarines.

Iran is a signatory of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and has allowed the International Atomic Energy Agency to inspect and monitor its nuclear energy research program, as required by the treaty. It raised profound suspicions, however, with its one infraction against the treaty--which was to conduct some secret civilian research that it should have reported and did not, and which was discovered by inspectors. Tehran denies having military labs aiming for a bomb, and in November of 2003 the IAEA formally announced that it could find no proof of such a weapons program."

snip:"it is often alleged that since Iran harbors the desire to “destroy” Israel, it must not be allowed to have the bomb. Ahmadinejad has gone blue in the face denouncing the immorality of any mass extermination of innocent civilians, but has been unable to get a hearing in the English-language press. Moreover, the presidency is a very weak post in Iran, and the president is not commander of the armed forces and has no control over nuclear policy. Ahmadinejad’s election is not relevant to the nuclear issue, and neither is the question of whether he is, as Liz Cheney is reported to have said, “a madman.” Iran has not behaved in a militarily aggressive way since its 1979 revolution, having invaded no other countries, unlike Iraq, Israel or the U.S. Washington has nevertheless succeeded in depicting Iran as a rogue state"

snip: "in November of 2003 the IAEA formally announced that it could find no proof of such a weapons program. The U.S. reaction was a blustery incredulity, which is not actually an argument or proof in its own right, however good U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton is at bunching his eyebrows and glaring."

snip"Bush’s allegations about the Iranians providing improvised explosive devices to the Iraqi guerrilla insurgency are bizarre. The British military looked into charges of improvised explosive devices coming from Iran, and actually came out this past January and apologized to Tehran when no evidence pointed to Iranian government involvement. The guerrillas in Iraq are militant Sunnis who hate Shiites, and it is wholly implausible that the Iranian regime would supply bombs to the enemies of its Iraqi allies."

_______________

And be sure to watch/listen/or read transcript of Sy Hersh's interview on Democracy Now. He pretty much says that baring unforeseen events a major attack on Iran is almost certainly going to happen in the not too distant future:

link to listen/watch/or read transcript:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/04/12/1359254

snip: "Everybody I talk to, the hawks I talk to, the neoconservatives, the people who are very tough absolutely say there's no way the U.N. is going to work, and we're just going to have to assume it doesn’t in any way. Iran, by going along with the U.N., what they're really doing is rushing their nuclear program. And so, the skepticism -- there's no belief, faith here, ultimately, in this White House, in the extent of the talk, so you've got a parallel situation. The President could then say, ‘We've explored all options. We've done it.’ I could add, if you want to get even more scared, some of our closest allies in this process -- we deal with the Germans, the French and the Brits -- they're secretly very worried, not only what Bush wants to do, but they're also worried that -- for example, the British Foreign Officer, Jack Straw, is vehemently against any military action, of course also nuclear action, and so is the Foreign Office, as I said, but nobody knows what will happen if Bush calls Blair. Blair's the wild card in this. He and Bush both have this sense, this messianic sense, I believe, about what they've done and what's needed to be done in the Middle East. I think Bush is every bit as committed into this world of rapture, as is the president.”
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Just when you think it's impossible for Americans to be
any more gullible, a poll like this comes out.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. unfortunately, I think this is going to happen
this part of your post from the source:

McInerney believes that U.S. air power is so massive, precise, and stealthy, it can effectively disarm Iran with just limited assistance from covert operators on the ground whose task would be to light up enemy targets.

In his "Big George" scenario, the United States would attack 1,000 targets in Iran. Fifteen B2 stealth bombers based in the United States and another 45 F117s and F-22s based in the region would carry out the initial waves of the attack, crippling Iran's long-range radar and strategic air defenses."
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. IF "U.S. air power is so massive, precise, and stealthy ..."
I'll have to assume all the dead Iraqi civlians was intentional.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. much different targets.
hitting an installation where there are nuclear development labs isn't quite as difficult as hitting one house without hitting the next one.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. My point is, they never TRIED to hit one house. n/t
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. well, surgical or not, that's what is going to happen
the aerial bombardment described

we'll lose a few pilots, a few special ops guys, and that will help sway some public opinion Bush's direction
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I sure the #@%%# hope you are wrong
Edited on Fri Apr-14-06 02:00 AM by Douglas Carpenter
but there seems to be multiple source thinking it is likely.

I doubt there will be any use of nuclear weapons, low yield or otherwise. That would be too politically costly for an exercise that will already be too politically costly. And it doesn't appear that the use of ground troops are in the equation. They simply don't have them.
But a massive nonnuclear bombardment is looking quite possible.

I hope we are wrong.

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientist and the hope of its children. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron."

President Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I simply don't think anyone can stop him, and he's deadset
the guy is delusional and addictive

he needs a new war, a bigger war, a better war

someone write a parody of Huey Lewis and make it Bush singing

I WANT A NEW WAR!
one that won't hurt my head!

etc.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. Maybe Lincoln was wrong, you CAN fool all of the people all of time.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. I simply refuse to believe that half the people in this country are
Edited on Fri Apr-14-06 12:00 AM by BrklynLiberal
willing to bomb another country after seeing what bombing Iraq resulted in!
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Half have never seen it. Faux doesn't show dead Iraqis. n/t
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. frankly I find that hard to believe too
but I've learned to never-never-never underestimate the power of the pro-war propaganda machine
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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. The poll contacted 1,357 adults nationwide.......Not enough in my
Edited on Fri Apr-14-06 03:58 AM by Alamom
opinion to make this statement. However, I've seen this repeated all day and the TV news has reported it as gospel, too.



The poll contacted 1,357 adults nationwide by telephone Saturday through Tuesday. The margin of error is plus or minus 3 percentage points for the entire sample.



http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-iranpoll13apr13,0,7195484.story?coll=la-home-headlines



I don't see half of 1300 people being a good representation of the entire country, but I could have on my rose colored glasses. With all the insanity we see everyday, I've started checking the details on these newspaper poll results and they all poll about this number of people.
I was told yesterday, polling around 200,000 people and factoring in several things would be a good representation of what most Americans think or believe.
Also, Pew, Gallup and some of the polling agencies "DO" additional factoring to make their poll results as accurate as possible. I don't think all Newspapers do this, maybe none.
Sorry, I didn't save the post of the factoring details that would make a sampling more accurate. It did make a lot of sense and came from a member here who knows the formula used by reputable polling agencies.



edit:grammer

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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. kick
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. I wonder how many of those questioned were military
Let's ask the actual people who will be over there putting their asses on the line how they feel about it. It's easy for some people to kick back on their lazy ass and send other people's children to get their heads blown off, but I wonder if the ones who say yes were told they would have to go to Iran would vote differently. :shrug:
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