Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I need response help please! Titled "Immigration/Travel"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:05 AM
Original message
I need response help please! Titled "Immigration/Travel"
Edited on Fri Apr-14-06 11:36 AM by grace0418
I see where this is going folks, and I am frankly terrified. It's sounding an awful lot like the demonization of the Jews in Germany to me.

Incidently, I got this from my father-in-law, a man who immigrated from the Philippines just 35 years ago. I feel I've got to respond to this.



"Try Doing This...

a.. Try driving around as a Gringo in Mexico with no liability
insurance..and have an accident.

B.. Enter Mexico illegally. Never mind immigration quotas, visas, international law, or any of that nonsense.

C.. Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for you and your entire family.

d.. Demand bilingual nurses and doctors.

e.. Demand free bilingual local government forms, bulletins, etc.

f.. Procreate abundantly. Deflect any criticism of this allegedly irresponsible reproductive behavior with, "It is a cultural United States thing. You would not understand, pal."

g. Keep your American identity strong. Fly Old Glory from your
rooftop, or, proudly display it in your front window or on your car bumper.

h.. Speak only English at home and in public and insist that your children do likewise.

i.. Insist that all products' labels, owner's manuals, instructions, etc., be written in English as well as Spanish.

j.. Demand classes on American culture in the Mexican school system.

k.. Demand a local Mexican driver license. This will afford other legal rights and will go far to legitimize your unauthorized, illegal presence in Mexico.

L.. Insist that local Mexican law enforcement teach English to all its officers.

Good luck! Because it will never happen. It will not happen in Mexico or any other country in the world... except right here in the United States...Land of the naive!

If you agree, pass it on. If you don't, go ahead and try the above in Mexico or Iran, or just about any other country in the world, for that matter.

Words of Wisdom: "Support the country you live in...or live in the country you support""
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. I got some RW e-mail crap propaganda yesterday.
Edited on Fri Apr-14-06 11:13 AM by CottonBear
A co-worker sent it to me. This person is uneducated (no college oir post-high school education), provincial, bigoted, xenophobic, homophobic, and racist.

You simply can't respond to these sorts of talking points when one of the 30% of people who support Bush sends this sort of crap to you.

I responded with my favorite Thomas Jefferson quote and left it at that.

Peace. CB

edit: The quote:

"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt. If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake."
~From a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1798 after the passage of the Sedition Act
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. That's a great quote.
I know what you mean about not responding. But this is the second time my in-laws have brought the subject up in the last few weeks, and I feel like I need to respond with some truth. I feel like they're taking this issue very seriously because they themselves are immigrants. I've definitely felt the need to pick my battles with them, but I feel like this is a battle I need to take on because it's getting bigger and uglier by the day. Plus it's just too eerily similar to "the Jews are causing all our problems and we must exterminate them."

I want to be as sensitive as possible in my response, but I do feel I must respond. I would like to have as much rational argument to those points as possible when I do. So if anyone is willing to help me argue this point, I would be most grateful.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Check out my RW e-mail thread from yestrday for suggestions.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x921900

Good luck. I have some in-laws who spout all sorts of RW crap but, thankfully, they never e-mail us. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Thanks WOW. You have the magic touch.
I asked for help like this before and I got nothing. Everyone kept telling me to let it go. Sometimes you can't just let it go, right?

Anyway, thanks so much... :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. You're welcome. Be careful how you respond to your family.
Edited on Fri Apr-14-06 11:48 AM by CottonBear
They may be wingnuts but they're still family. *sigh* I tried to avoid politics with my family.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Oh I know. I've given this topic a pass already.
But it keeps rearing it's ugly racist head and I just have to respond. I will try to be as sensitive as possible. Especially since I will see him on Sunday.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. i am in love with schrub.. the visual at the bottom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. the "impeach bush" pictogram?
Thanks! It's from my Cafepress page. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. Write back and tell them that's why many Mexicans want out
Edited on Fri Apr-14-06 11:13 AM by nothingshocksmeanymo
Yes...the Mexican government is corrupt and oppressive and has been for ages. We bombed Iraq because of their oppressive policies and Mexico is right next door to the "land of the free" and people are still getting disappeared, people are living in cardboard houses and our policy has been to deal with their government for oil (something we villify Venezuela for) and turn a blind eye to the corruption right next door and move so much of our manufacturing down there to take advantage of their absence of meaningful labor laws.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. My initial response was "Uh, aren't you patriotic sorts always talking
about how wonderful America is? How it's the best country on earth? How we'll do what no one else will do because we value freedom so darn much? So why is it suddenly a bad thing that we'll do more to help immigrants than Mexico or Iran will? Are we supposed to be on par with them now?"

My second response was "What happened to 'Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!'? Did that only apply to non-Mexicans?"

But I want to make one long response and actually send it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. The corporatists LOVE Mexico!
They can open factories there that pollute, have no OSHA regulations, and almost no Wage and Hour Standards. If they can't export the jobs, they 'import' the workers. It's a privateering wet dream. Slave labor without having to build slave quarters or feed them. The Mexican States of Coca-Cola!

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TahitiNut/110
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TahitiNut/136
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. I got the same astroturf
as a letter to the president
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
5. It was written by some fool who has never been to Mexico
unless it was on a cruise ship and he was too chickenshit to get off it when it docked at Cancun or any other tourist spot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
6. I got that from a fundy relative
too.

I wrote back:

"Well, that was a nice load of racist crap to start my day. How is my sister doing? We're fine here, enjoying Spring."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Good one! Does anyone feel like helping me elaborate?
I know it may not be worth it but I feel I must respond to this one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Say this
"Not all illegals are from Mexico, you know. I think you dislike Mexicans more than you do illegals"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. I started top rebut it bit by bit
but decided it wasn't worth my energy. I called it racist and let it go there. Consider if it is worth the rebuttal. I know in my case I make the same cases over and over and it matters for nothing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
7. How low can these people sink?
On second thought, I probably don't want to know the answer to that question. :scared:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
15. LOL I guess this moron has never been to the expat colonies in the Yucatan
or anywhere else in MX, has he?

He is what happens when they live in a narrow, ignorant world enlightened only by the mentally ill belching on hate radio.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Research Americans living in Mexico
behind gated communities, having no contact with the country and (*gasp*) never learning to speak Spanish.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Even more US retirees actually enjoy Mexico....
I visited the Lake Chapala area where many US & Canadian expats live. Lovely climate & close to a big city--Guadalajara.

Frankly, I don't like the "gated communities". If you are moving to Mexico, live in Mexico, not the "suburbs" you left behind. Oh, learn some Spanish, learn to relax & enjoy this beautiful place and its wonderful people.

www.expatexchange.com/rspgennet.cfm?rid=63&answerid=2565&networkid=159

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Nor has the author ever witnessed Americans travelling abroad and making
total asses of themselves demanding that everyone speak English and cater to their American tastes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. My mom (who once lived in Germany) complained that the French
Edited on Fri Apr-14-06 01:29 PM by CottonBear
didn't speak English when she was there on holiday!
I told her "No, you didn't speak French." :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. The writer of that should go pick lettuce in the CA Central Valley
and see how he/she feels about immigrants after that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
24. **CARE TO COMMENT ON MY RESPONSE?**
I haven't sent this yet. Want to hear what you all think...




Try Doing This...

a.Try driving around as a Gringo in Mexico with no liability insurance..and have an accident.

THAT WOULD BE IRRESPONSIBLE. BUT THAT DOESN'T JUSTIFY BIGOTRY.


B.Enter Mexico illegally. Never mind immigration quotas, visas, international law, or any of that nonsense.

A LOT OF COUNTRIES HAVE IMMIGRATION PROBLEMS. BECAUSE THE U.S. IS ONE OF THE MOST AFFLUENT COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD, THE PROBLEM IS GOING TO BE MAGNIFIED HERE. AND BECAUSE MEXICO PHYSICALLY BORDERS THE U.S., IT'S ONLY NATURAL THAT MORE MEXICANS WOULD BE TRYING TO COME HERE. WHILE THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED, IT DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULD SCAPEGOAT MEXICANS OR ANY OTHER RACE.


C.Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for you and your entire family.

ACTUALLY, YOU CAN GET SOME FREE MEDICAL CARE IN OTHER COUNTRIES. NOT EVERYWHERE, AND MAYBE NOT COMPREHENSIVE, BUT IT IS POSSIBLE. BESIDES, DOES THE AUTHOR REALLY MEAN TO SUGGEST THAT A SICK OR INJURED CHILD SHOULD BE LEFT TO DIE BECAUSE HIS OR HER PARENTS CAME HERE ILLEGALLY AND CAN'T AFFORD INSURANCE? WOULD HE OR SHE HONESTLY BE ABLE TO WALK AWAY AND NOT HELP SOMEONE IN THAT SITUATION? I KNOW I COULDN'T LEAVE SOMEONE TO DIE, IT WOULDN'T MATTER WHAT THEIR IMMIGRATION STATUS WAS.


d. Demand bilingual nurses and doctors.

LOTS OF COUNTRIES DO HAVE MULTILINGUAL HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS. AMERICA IS SUPPOSED TO BE MELTING POT, SO WOULDN'T IT STAND TO REASON THAT AMERICA SHOULD OFFER THIS SERVICE?


e. Demand free bilingual local government forms, bulletins, etc.

OTHER COUNTRIES PROVIDE A LOT MORE THAN BILINGUAL FORMS. READ THE FORMS IN MANY, MANY OTHER COUNTRIES. YOU'LL SEE UPWARDS OF 8 OR 10 DIFFERENT LANGUAGES ON SOME THINGS.


f.Procreate abundantly. Deflect any criticism of this allegedly irresponsible reproductive behavior with, "It is a cultural United States thing. You would not understand, pal."

STEREOTYPING DOES NOT SOLVE ANYTHING, IT ONLY ALLOWS PEOPLE TO JUSTIFY THEIR BIGOTRY AND IS INTELLECTUALLY LAZY. "IRRESPONSIBLE REPRODUCTIVE BEHAVIOR" DOES NOT EXIST IN ONLY ONE ETHNIC GROUP.


g.Keep your American identity strong. Fly Old Glory from your rooftop, or, proudly display it in your front window or on your car bumper.

PLENTY OF AMERICANS DO JUST THAT WHEN TRAVELING OR LIVING ABROAD. OR IS IT ONLY OKAY FOR AMERICANS TO DO THAT?


h. Speak only English at home and in public and insist that your children do likewise.

MORE STEREOTYPING AND COMPLETELY GOES AGAINST ANY ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE I'VE COME ACROSS. I'VE LIVED IN ETHNIC NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE CITY AND THE CHILDREN WERE, ALMOST WITHOUT EXCEPTION, BILINGUAL. HOW MANY BORN AND BRED AMERICANS CAN SAY THEY KNOW MORE THAN ONE LANGUAGE?


i. Insist that all products' labels, owner's manuals, instructions, etc., be written in English as well as Spanish.

PRETTY MUCH THE SAME ARGUMENT AS "E" TO WHICH I HAVE THE IDENTICAL RESPONSE.


j. Demand classes on American culture in the Mexican school system.

WHEN I HAVE CHILDREN I WANT THEM TO LEARN ABOUT AS MANY OTHER CULTURES AS POSSIBLE. WE LIVE IN A GLOBAL ECONOMY AND WE SHARE A RELATIVELY SMALL PLANET. PRETENDING THE REST OF THE WORLD DOESN'T EXIST IS NOT ONLY IGNORANT, IT'S DANGEROUS. IGNORANCE BREEDS FEAR, FEAR BREEDS HATRED, HATRED BREEDS VIOLENCE AND SUFFERING.


k. Demand a local Mexican driver license. This will afford other legal rights and will go far to legitimize your unauthorized, illegal presence in Mexico.

THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED. BUT, BY CONSTANTLY REFERRING TO MEXICANS ONLY, THE AUTHOR MAKES THIS POINT MUCH MORE ABOUT HIS OR HER OWN BIGOTRY THAN ABOUT SOLVING A COMPLICATED PROBLEM.


L. Insist that local Mexican law enforcement teach English to all its officers.

PRETTY MUCH THE SAME ARGUMENT AS "D" TO WHICH I HAVE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME RESPONSE--WITH ONE SMALL NOTE. I NOTICED THAT THE AUTHOR LIKES TO USE THE WORD "DEMAND" A LOT. AS IF THERE ARE THESE ROVING BANDS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS BEATING UP ANYONE WHO DOESN'T SPEAK SPANISH. I THINK THE REALITY IS THAT BUSINESSES AND SERVICE AGENCIES HAVE FOUND IT'S MUCH EASIER TO DO THEIR JOBS, MUCH EASIER TO HELP PEOPLE, AND MUCH EASIER TO AVOID MISTAKES IF THEY HAVE MULTILINGUAL STAFF MEMBERS AND INSTRUCTIONAL MATERIALS. I THINK IT'S MORE A MATTER OF RESPONDING TO A NEED THAN GIVING IN TO A DEMAND. BUT THE WORD "DEMAND" IS MUCH MORE MENACING AND MAKES IT EASIER TO RESPOND NEGATIVELY TO THOSE DOING THE "DEMANDING" I THINK.


Good luck! Because it will never happen. It will not happen in Mexico or any other country in the world... except right here in the United States...Land of the naive! If you agree, pass it on. If you don't, go ahead and try the above in Mexico or Iran, or just about any other country in the world, for that matter.

OKAY, LET'S SUPPOSE FOR A MOMENT THAT AMERICA *IS* THE ONLY COUNTRY "NAIVE" ENOUGH TO DO ALL OF THE ABOVE (A COMPLETELY FALSE PREMISE, IN MY OPINION). DOESN'T AMERICA HAVE THE REPUTATION OF BEING THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD? DOESN'T THAT TITLE IMPLY THAT AMERICA CAN AND DOES (AND *SHOULD*) DO MORE TO HELP PEOPLE THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY? MAYBE YOU CAN'T GET ALL THOSE SERVICES IN IRAN OR MEXICO, BUT IF THOSE COUNTRIES ARE SO AWFUL WHY DOES THE AUTHOR WANT AMERICA TO BE ON PAR WITH THEM? IF OTHER COUNTRIES AREN'T "PLAYING FAIR" IN THE EYES OF THE AUTHOR, DOESN'T IT DIMINISH AMERICA TO STOOP TO THEIR LEVEL? I CERTAINLY DON'T SEE HOW IT SOLVES ANYTHING.


Words of Wisdom: "Support the country you live in...or live in the country you support"

TO ME, SUPPORTING AND LOVING AMERICA MEANS EMBRACING ALL THE CULTURES THAT MAKE UP THIS MELTING POT, EVEN WHEN IT'S NOT CONVENIENT. THERE ARE INDEED A LOT OF PROBLEMS IN THIS COUNTRY, AND IMMIGRATION IS AN ESPECIALLY STICKY ONE. BUT WE'LL NEVER COME TO A SOLUTION IF WE SCAPEGOAT AND BLAME BASED ON STEREOTYPES AND FEAR.

AS THE GRANDDAUGHTER OF IMMIGRANTS, THESE WORDS MEAN MORE TO ME THAN "Support the country you live in...or live in the country you support":
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

BUT I GUESS I'M JUST NAIVE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. ***anyone?***
I want to send this to him today. Thanks in advance!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. dont use caps
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Normally I wouldn't but since I will be sending
this response via email, I never know for sure whether making my text italicized or bold will translate on my f-i-l's computer. Doing it in all-caps (maybe with a disclaimer that "I'm not yelling" perhaps?) is the only thing I know for sure that will differentiate it from the text to which I am responding.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. shameless kick
sorry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. It was an excellent response
It's always good to challenge people's bigotry, scapegoating and generalizations. If anything, it will discourage him from sending more of this crap to you and it might just make him think :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Thanks nsma
I hope it works without causing too much trouble.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Jan 13th 2025, 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC