Sincere question about abortion

[steve2470]

I am pro-choice, want to say that off the bat. The ONLY argument against abortion, to me, that merits any serious consideration is the "have your baby be adopted" one. I am sure there are valid reasons women do not do this. Does anyone wish to enlighten me ? TIA for your time.

[Mr_Spock]

1. It seems so obvious to me

but I'm not a woman so I'll keep it to myself

[still_one]

2. really you don't know

have you heard of rape, incest, or major birth defects that could cause untold suffering

have you heard that a woman could die in child birth under certain conditions

There are a lot more issues than the obvious ones I just named

[Warpy]

3. Well, gee whiz, it's not like giving away an extra PUPPY

and studies have shown life long consequences like severe depression and higher rates of suicide for birth mothers who have surrendered their babies.

I don't think any man can fully understand what it costs a woman to bear a child. To surrender one to strangers one will never meet and never have the right to know what happened to the child is horrible.

Plus there's that little matter of taking a year out of your life and risking your life, your health, your finances, and your social support system (as well as your job) to produce a child you will never have the right to raise.

Does this answer your question?

[steve2470]

4. yes it helps a lot, I didn't want to put my thoughts since i'm a man nt

[Iris]

54. even as a man, you can still consider what it would be like to have your

child raised by strangers.

[serryjw]

7. I never had to make that decision

BUT there is not a woman alive that has not considered what she would do in that situation. Undoing a pregnancy is far easier than wondering all your life HOW the child is. HOW could you ever handle finding out the child had a terrible life of neglect or abuse. The guilt would be intolerable.

[Nobody]

25. And there are a lot of people who would leap at the chance to

pile on more guilt. They're doing it right now. I've often wondered how the lives of many women would be easier if the rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth, clinic harassers left women alone to make and live with their choices minus the added aggravation.

I have gotten into arguments with people who equate a two-cell blastocyst that hasn't even gotten to the implantation stage with a fully grown woman. I have seen various statistics from 20% to 50% (I tend to go with the 20% figure, mainly because it's less sensational. I don't know which is closest to reality) This number is the percentage of fertilized eggs that do NOT implant. They just get sloughed off the next time the woman has her period.

There really are people who would want to make us feel guilty about each and every one of them. I've argued with these people.

[knitter4democracy]

28. One in a million chance

My hubby was told in med school that it's a one in a million chance to get a healthy baby to term. The more they study this, the more they realize that many, many, many fertilized eggs don't make it to implantation, that many get there but don't get any further for some reason, and that many get there only to develop a bit further and then die for some reason.

The way I look at it is that it's far more complex than any of us want to admit. The whole process is lined with failure, and I just don't think that heaven's streets are lined with all the ones who didn't make it.

[Sawber1001]

34. I don't understand this argument

Having a wife who was adopted and is now very happy with her life, I don't see how you can claim that not being given any opportunity at life is any better than possibly having a poor childhood. And no, my wife did not have a happy childhood or a good adoptive home.

However, life is far more than childhood and when she turned 18, she moved out and turned her life to what she wanted it to be.

[philosophie_en_rose]

5. There is more than one reason to have an abortion.

I can't anticipate all or judge any of them. I don't think it matters that adoption may be a viable option, if the fetus is not viable or if it will lead to the mother's death. Even if the pregnancy could go to term, I think it's vile to force a woman to be pregnant against her will.


The state should not be in the business of telling anyone that they must be pregnant.

[murielm99]

6. There are many reasons that a woman might not want to

carry a pregnancy through to birth.

She may have a job that she cannot leave, family obligations, financial issues or health issues. Maybe she was a victim of rape or incest. And ultimately, she does not have to do that because it is her decision to make about the pregnancy.

There are probably as many reasons as there are women. But it is her choice.

[Proud_Democratt]

8. Miscommunication between the 2 parties sometimes.

Lack of Health Care is another reason.
Incest.
A single mother's inability for support while pregnant.
Mental problems.
Physical problems.

[ugarte]

9. Sure, 9 months of being pregnant is a walk in the f*ing park

Do you have any idea of what a woman's body goes through in pregnancy? Throwing up, hormones going crazy, constipation, carrying a huge foreign object and dozens of extra pounds around for 9 frigging months??? Not to mention going through childbirth...

I would not wish it on my worst enemy (unless she wants to be pregnant, in which case it's a beautiful thing). Please get a frigging clue.

[Emit]

13. And also, not to mention

getting laid off from work, not being able to find work being pregnant, lack of health care, going through school pregnant, the stereotyping of being single and pregnant, etc., etc., etc.

My sister was 14 when she got pregnant. It freaked my parents out so bad that we ended up moving to a different town. She chose to keep her baby, my nephew. :loveya: She enrolled in high school in our new hometown. When she became a senior, she was nominated for Homecoming Queen. The school principle pulled her out of class one day before the vote occurred to *ask* her to withdraw her nomination because the principal didn't think it was appropriate for a teenage mother to represent the school. Imagine how my sis felt! It was awful. :cry:

[Sal Minella]

14. You forgot the thrombosed hemorrhoids and throbbing varicose veins.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

16. and the fact that you start to bond with the baby when you feel it moving

I have 3 beautiful boys, and by the time I felt them kick, I loved them. The three miscarriages I had were difficult to handle, and I was upset... but they were early (less than 3 months) and if I had lost one at say 6 months... I don't know if I could have recovered at all.

[niyad]

10. saying that she should continue a pregnancy just so other people can

have a baby relegates her to the level of brood mare, for one.

all the other reasons mentioned, for two.

[BlueJazz]

11. Even being a Man, I feel it's Her Body, Her Conscience ....

..Her Life, Her Reality and she can do with it as she pleases.

[wordpix2]

30. well, said, Man, and I agree: women own their own bodies & if a woman

wants an abortion for ANY reason, it's a safe medical procedure and she should have it. Coat hangar procedures AREN'T SAFE.

[Ilsa]

12. And the US is incredibly behind other industrialized nations in

maternal mortality, too. Pergnancy and giving birth and recovering from it are no picnic.

[AllieB]

24. I had a friend who died giving birth to her third child

:cry:

She was 32. No one tells you it's dangerous to give birth, even when surrounded by the most modern medical technology.

[Nobody]

27. It's only in the 20th century

that childbirth was no longer the leading cause of death among women.

Why did it take that long? Because of a bible verse that cursed Eve with bringing forth children in pain. However it went on to say that Adam had to toil on the earth. Obstetrics was held back, yet farm tools and white collar management jobs were OK. Go figure.

Belated condolences for your friend.

[lostnfound]

15. One aspect to consider

is that 1/4 or so of all pregnancies are delivered via C-section.
Which is major surgery.

I had the easiest pregnancy I could imagine, happy and healthy for 8+ months...but it was still a huge, huge deal..and what's it like to have 22 hours of labor? These things I know.

Things I don't know, are what's it like when you are 16, or a victim of some sort, or you have a chronic illness, or you are trying to take care of other small children without help.

I have no answers anymore.

[jbm]

17. I think one reason might be..

Because the pain of giving up a child one has given birth to would be a tremendous burden to carry, and totally unnecessary grief.

We have been conditioned to believe that abortion is 'bad', but an unbiased look at the realities of human development pretty much destroys any rational reason to be against ending an early pregnancy. When it comes to abortion, whatever misery is experienced is the result of fantasys and myths and things that are not real.

Carrying a pregnancy to term, and giving away the child is very real though. If someone chooses to put themselves through that pain for the benefit of a childless couple, I commend them, but to accept that it should be a logical alternative is horribly unjust.

[girl gone mad]

18. From my experience as an adoptee..

I can say that I wouldn't ever want to give a child up for adoption. I know that it works out great for some people, just not for everyone.

There are many children waiting for a home. Some will never get one. If we outlaw abortion, we will have to go back to the days of orphanages. I personally do not find that to be an acceptable plan.

[cynatnite]

19. The option to go full term was not there for me...

Even having it, giving it up for adoption, was not an option at all. I had only been in the army for a year. Got stupid and did not use birth control. I became pregnant.

I had a daughter already who was being cared for by my parents. At the time I was stationed in Germany. The Army was not recognizing single parents and I could not afford to live off post.

I would never been able to have it, give it up for adoption or stay in the military. I had no education at the time. I'm sure times have changed now within the military.

There was no other alternative for me and to this day I do not regret getting an abortion.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oneold1-4u]

20. Someday

They will implant a womb with fertilized egg inside a man's body! During the nine months that one or more males carry a fetus to term, there will be drastic changes in attitudes around the world!
Invest in vasectomy clinics quickly!

[REP]

21. Women Are Not Vending Machines; Babies Are Not Consumer Goods

Poor young women with unwanted pregnancies are not vending machines for the desires of infertile wealthy couples (I've never heard of a middle-class or wealthy woman giving up her newborn to a poor or working-class infertile couple, have you?). Babies are not things to be desired and obtained; they are human beings. Adoption is a course of last resort for the child when the parents or family are unable to tend to it; not a way for people to get things they want. Forcing women to undergo pregnancy and childbirth so they can hand over the helpless newborn to strangers is a not a humane solution.

Some studies on the long-term psychological sequelae to adoption:

J Obstet Gynecol Neonatal Nurs. 1999 Jul-Aug;28(4):395-400.
Related Articles, Links

Postadoptive reactions of the relinquishing mother: a review.

Askren HA, Bloom KC.

Deer Valley OB/GYN, Mesa, AZ, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To review the literature addressing the process of relinquishment as it relates to the birth mother. DATA SOURCES: Computerized searches in CINAHL; Article 1 st, PsycFIRST, and SocioAbs databases, using the keywords adoption and relinquishment; and ancestral bibliographies. STUDY SELECTION: Articles from indexed journals in the English language relevant to the keywords were evaluated. No studies were located before 1978. Studies that sampled only an adolescent population were excluded. Twelve studies met the inclusion criteria and were included in the analysis. DATA EXTRACTION: Data were extracted and information was organized under the following headings: grief reaction, long-term effects, efforts to resolve, and influences on the relinquishment experience. DATA SYNTHESIS: A grief reaction unique to the relinquishing mother was identified. Although this reaction consists of features characteristic of the normal grief reaction, these features persist and often lead to chronic, unresolved grief. CONCLUSIONS: The relinquishing mother is at risk for long-term physical, psychologic, and social repercussions. Although interventions have been proposed, little is known about their effectiveness in preventing or alleviating these repercussions.

Med J Aust. 1986 Feb 3;144(3):117-9.
Related Articles, Links

Psychological disability in women who relinquish a baby for adoption.

Condon JT.

During 1986, approximately 2000 women in Australia are likely to relinquish a baby for adoption. A study is presented of 20 relinquishing mothers that demonstrates a very high incidence of pathological grief reactions which have failed to resolve although many years have elapsed since the relinquishment. This group had abnormally high scores for depression and psychosomatic symptoms on the Middlesex Hospital questionnaire. Factors that militate against the resolution of grief after relinquishment are discussed. Guidelines for the medical profession that are aimed at preventing psychological disability in relinquishing mothers are outlined.

Community Health Stud. 1990;14(2):180-9.
Related Articles, Links

Erratum in:
• Community Health Stud 1990;14(3):314.

Social factors associated with the decision to relinquish a baby for adoption.

Najman JM, Morrison J, Keeping JD, Andersen MJ, Williams GM.

Department of Social and Preventive Medicine, University of Queensland.

Little is known about the characteristics, social circumstances and mental health of women who give a child up for adoption. This paper reports data from a longitudinal study of 8556 women interviewed initially at their first obstetrical visit. In total, 7668 proceeded to give birth to a live singleton baby, of which 64 then relinquished the baby for adoption. Relinquishing mothers were predominantly 18 years of age or younger, in the lowest family income group, single, having an unplanned and/or unwanted baby and reported that they were not living with a partner. These women were somewhat more likely to manifest symptoms of anxiety and depression both prior, and subsequent to, the adoption, but the majority of relinquishing mothers were of 'normal' mental health. The decision to relinquish a baby appears to be a consequence of an unwanted pregnancy experienced by an economically deprived single mother rather than the result of emotional or psychological/psychiatric considerations. These findings document a particular dimension of the impact of poverty on health.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. My mother did clerical work for an orphanage back in the 1940s

She saw women and girls giving up their babies for adoption, and this was in the days before open adoption or open adoption records.

From the birth mother's point of view, it was emotionally equivalent to the baby dying, because either adoption or death meant that she would never see the baby again.

It's very callous to insist that any woman go through that.

[Nobody]

23. Because pregnancy can be dangerous

and some women (I include myself) don't want to be pregnant AT ALL.

I think we should look into research for ways to redirect all unwanted embryos and fetuses into the uteri of anti-choice women.

[athena]

60. Exactly. Some women simply don't want to be pregnant.

If I were ever in a situation where I ended up pregnant and were forced to carry the fetus and give birth, I would kill myself. I simply don't want to be pregnant or give birth, ever. Never wanted to, never will.

Of course, the loss of my life means nothing to the anti-choice crowd. They'd much rather have me, and other women like me, kill ourselves than allow safe and legal abortions.

People should be glad there are any women at all out there who are willing to go through childbirth. It's not easy, it's not safe, and it's not pleasant. It's something that some women volunteer to do, not something they should be forced into. Kind of like sex: it's great when it's voluntary, but a crime when it's forced.

[Ilsa]

26. How will I know my adopted baby won't suffer at the hands of the

adopting parents? I've heard of it. People who are foster parents and adopt and they turn their children into punching bags or slaves. I don't know that I'd ever feel assured that I did the right thing.

[Sawber1001]

36. I don't understand

But you do know that not giving it a chance at a happy fulfilled life was the right thing?

My life might turn around and go right down the crapper from this point on, but I am not going to go kill myself because the risk exists.

[Ilsa]

44. Perhaps a soul doesn't even materialize in a 6-8 week embryo.

Do you ever wonder what happens to all the souls of miscarried babies at 4-12 weeks or longer? No one does, and the estimate is that 1/3 to 40% of pregnancies end in spontaneous miscarriage. You can't convince me that one group has souls and another doesn't. I don't think a fetus has a soul until it become viable.

[Sawber1001]

56. I don't begin

to even guess when people get souls. Heck, I'm not sure I have one. Even if I do, I'm not sure newborns do. That question is way beyond me.

I'm just looking at it from a logical standpoint.

[Chomp]

29. Hmmmmm

If someone sincerely believes that abortion is murder, how can you seriously argue with that? Many reasonable people - I'm not talking about knee-jerk, unthinking religious robots - believe that abortion is murder.

Is it hard to understand why? No, it's quite easy to understand. Seeing a developing foetus on a scan or in a photo is a very powerful, beautiful thing. It speaks to something primal in us about our need to propogate the species/go forth and multiply etc. That's why many (non-religious loonies) have a problem with abortion. They see the foeuts as a little person. Is it so hard to understand that many see aborting that "little person" as a form of murder? No, there's no great mystery in that.

You and I might happen to think that other matters (primarily the right of a woman to control her own body/life) takes precedent, but that will never be a strong anough argument to trump "murder", I'm afraid.

[riderinthestorm]

31. I can and do seriously argue with people on that POV all the time

This perspective that abortion is "murder" completely eradicates a woman's right to make decisions for her own body. If they want to insist I "understand" this, then I demand the right for them to understand that a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body is equally as important. I think however you are using the word "understand" as a substitute for "tolerate", or "allow". In which case my POV that abortion isn't "murder" needs to be tolerated and allowed.

This is a strong enough argument, and frankly in my opinion, it trumps anyone's claim to "murder". I believe this is perfectly "understandable".

The clump of cells that are aborted aren't "murdered" and I find your choice of vocabulary to describe it that way very wierd.

[Chomp]

32. But Rider

you are talking about the substantive issue. I am talking about the framing of the issue.

Arguing your point passionatly is pointless if you leave your flank open to someone simply saying: "but nothing is worse than murder".

And they'd be right: there isn't really anything worse than murder. So the argument is back to square 1.

Becasue the bar you have to climb is set so high - murder - it is an argument you cannot win.

[riderinthestorm]

33. That's their (your?) opinion only

#1. That's their opinion only that murder is the very worst. There are some who would argue that other things are worse (torture, rape, deliberate maiming that leaves a person in a permanent vegetative state for example - whatever is one's particular phobia, there are many who would argue that murder isn't necessarily society's greatest crime). So from the get-go, that POV isn't necessarily valid.

#2. I don't accept their framing of abortion as "murder".

And as I said before, if they demand I "understand" (accept and tolerate) their POV, then I demand they "understand" (accept and tolerate) mine.

[Sawber1001]

38. Root issue

When does the fetus become a person?

Is a 30 month preemie biologically different than a 30 month fetus?

What happens when we eventually get to the point that zygote can be extracted and raised in an artificial environment?

What if we can fertilize and egg and incubate the baby entirely outside the womb?

When do we declare the fetus a person in those situation, because I really do foresee them as realistic in the future.?

[riderinthestorm]

40. Root issue

When does a full grown woman's right to make choices for herself get superceded by the "rights" of a bunch of cells?

Where are the lines drawn for an expectation of privacy and control over these sorts of decisions (Terry Schiavo anyone?)

These decisions belong between a patient and her doctor, where is the line whereby a government gets to interfere in that relationship?

[Sawber1001]

42. I disagree

My "root issue" gets to the point of defining when it is a bunch of cells versus a person.

When it becomes a person, you have to balance the rights of the two persons involved.

[Scout]

43. no, you really don't.

it doesn't matter if it's a "person" or not ... it is what it is no matter the name we put on it.

If it is INSIDE a woman's uterus, she decides what happens to it.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AllieB]

47. "the woman chose to put it inside her"

Birth control fails, more often than you think.

The woman has a right over her body. She should not be forced to carry an unwanted fetus.

[riderinthestorm]

48. A fetus isn't a person

It is basically a parasite dependent on the woman. That woman has the right to decide what she is going to do with her body and all it's attendant parts.

Many women DON'T have any choice about the presence of that fetus. Women get pregnant by rape, incest, failed birth control and ignorance. Regardless of how she became pregnant though, she has the primary rights over her body.

In answer to your last point, technically that fetus cannot sustain it's life, even with machines, outside the mother's body and thus it isn't a person if you want to debate it using standard legal medical definitions.

Lastly, in the US everyone has equal rights so I disagree with your opinion that a fetus' rights weigh more heavily than a woman's right to make her own decisions about her life and her body.

[Sawber1001]

55. "technically that fetus cannot sustain it's life"

Yet.

50 years ago, a 26 week preemie could not sustain it's life, even with machines. Now it can.

What happens when we get to the point where a womb is not needed? When do we declare the fetus a person? (legally and morally)

And I disagree that the one person's rights don't weigh more heavily than others based on what they have at stake. Can I shoot someone if they block my way and keep me from going where I want to go? Absolutely not. An inconvenience to me does not give me the right to take their life.

However, if I truly fear for my life from that person, then I have to right to take their life. When it comes down to it the right to remain alive is far stronger than the right to be inconvenienced. Fear for my life does give me the right (legally and mrally) to take their life.

[riderinthestorm]

59. If babies are grown by machines in the future,

our issues about abortion will revolve around far different principles than the ones we are discussing. Your hypothesis isn't even a reality so why restrict a woman's right to make decisions for her body based upon a sci fi theoretical that may or may not ever come to fruition?

This will bring up moral and political quandries such as are clones persons with rights etc. That wasn't the point of this thread and hijacking it for this kind of OT discussion is not productive.

You've already said upthread that you aren't equipped to answer your own question about when a "soul" inhabits a fetus (during the discussion about whether all of the aborted embryos that women flush out during their menstrual cycles are "persons" or not....)

So I'll take your last paragraph "However, if I truly fear for my life from that person, then I have to right to take their life. When it comes down to it the right to remain alive is far stronger than the right to be inconvenienced. Fear for my life does give me the right (legally and mrally) to take their life."

and extrapolate....

Since you have persisted in calling a clump of cells a "person" throughout this discussion, I will deal with your frame. Women who choose to abort are in fear for their life (birth can kill) so they have the right to take that "person's" life morally and legally per your own frame.

[julialnyc]

50. The woman chose to put it inside her?

Chose to put what inside her....... sperm? The man made that deposit.

There is no easy answer to why there should be choice..... yes sometimes an unwanted pregnancy came from making a poor decision (and a teenager who made on very big mistake might weigh the outcome of the rest of her life..... There are always people who are safe and and protection failed them). The reason choice is so important is that you couldn't possibly analyze the different variables that lead woman to make extremely painful decisions and we know our bodies and state of mind more than any political (or religious) figure.

[cynatnite]

52. Unfortunately, I have to agree...

This is how the repukes have framed the issue and at that level it's hard to argue.

After that it becomes more substantive when the subject turns to when life begins. It's also hard to argue when an ultrasound is done and you're seeing a fetus moving around.

I think this is why it's an emotional issue for both sides.

The only way I believe we can win this is to frame it as a right to privacy with no interference by the government in medical decisions.

[El Fuego]

64. If they sincerely believe that abortion is murder...

They should never have one. Period. No one is going to force them to have an abortion.

The fact that someone has an irrational, emotional reaction to a fuzzy image of a group of cells which doesn't even have a brain is their own problem. They can't impose their particular beliefs and hangups on the rest of us.

If someone has concerns about propagating the species, they are thinking at the intellectual level of a jellyfish.

[kestrel91316]

37. Uh, maybe it's the NINE MONTHS OF FORCED PREGNANCY

that some women are opposed to??????

[dogday]

39. Not to mention the natural bonding

that occurs when a woman carries a baby to full-term.. It then becomes almost impossible to want to give the child up.....

[gollygee]

41. In addition to the many good reasons above

there are a lot of abortions each year in this country. Like roughly 1.5 million. How many more babies would there be in the adoption system and do you really think there are a million couples every year, year after year, who will be looking to adopt? What happens to the babies who aren't adopted?

[Iniquitous Bunny]

45. Not every pregnancy is a piece of cake.

A fair percentage of women have complications that necessitate missing work and not to mention a recovery time of a few to several weeks after the birth itself.

[SmokingJacket]

49. Intense, lifelong pain, perhaps?

There's a difference between an 8-week embryo and a full term baby. As someone who has borne two children, I can say that an abortion would have been difficult, but giving up my child at birth would have been totally excruciating. Obviously, in my case, my babies were wanted -- but still: the women who DO give up their babies for adoption are incredible people, total SAINTS. I have friends who've adopted, and know that the women who provided their babies are incredibly good women.

But we can't all be saints. It is a LOT to ask of a person.

[mnhtnbb]

51. What do you tell your other kids when you don't keep

this one? Maybe I should have given you away so I could keep the next one?
Because we can't afford all of you?

[steve2470]

53. For the record, I just want to restate that NO woman should be forced to..

undergo pregnancy. I was being cautious in my OP because I am a man. I was able to "guess" or reason out most of the reasons offered so far. Trust me, I'm solidly in the pro choice camp.

[judaspriestess]

57. how many people you know are lining up to adopt

babies? not a whole lot.

[wickerwoman]

58. Plus there's the social stigma.

Let's say you have a job and you acidentally get pregnant. If you bring the baby to term and give birth chances are good that your neighbors, co-workers, etc are going to notice. And you're going to spend month fending off questions about "what are you going to name it" and "when is it due" and "what do you mean you're giving it up for adoption". Think about how many thousands of conversations you would have to have about what is essentially a private choice and how many years you would have to continue to be known as the woman who gave her kid away.

That would probably be the deciding factor for me- even if I didn't lose my job, I wouldn't want to face people judging me for the rest of my life.

On edit: Also, a substantial number of abortions are performed on older women who already have 2 or 3 kids and can't afford another one. How are you supposed to explain to your older kids "Mommy's having another baby, but she can't afford to keep it so we're giving it away. Be good, or you'll be next!" Talk about giving your kid a complex for life!

[El Fuego]

61. Because we CHOOSE not to go through the hell of childbirth

And the damage to our bodies.

Selfish? Of course. But no more selfish that those people who would demand that women like myself serve as breeding stock to supply a prized blue-eyed blond product for the adoption industry.

[Coexist]

62. For me, personally

I would be scared that I put my child into a family that ended up abusing him/her. It would be entirely my fault.

To never give that life or to give life only to have that live be full of suffering.

What a choice.

I don't know if I could ever trust people enough to literally GIVE them a life to do with what they chose. The responsibility of that decision is terrifying.

Yes, there are many birth parents, step-parents and adoptive parents that are loving and caring, or abusive and neglectful. But that one life is my responsibility, whether in my home or someone else's (to me, at least).

[in_cog_ni_to]

63. Well, that's what CHOICE is all about. IMCPO.

If a woman CHOOSES to carry a baby for 9 months and then CHOOSES to give it up for adoption, that's great. Why is that great? Because that's what SHE CHOSE TO DO. On the other hand, if a woman doesn't wish to have a baby and CHOOSES abortion, then that's great too. Why is that great? Because that's what SHE CHOOSES to do.

CHOICE. It's all about a woman's right to CHOOSE what is best for HER. Not what's best for the Christian wacko right wingers, but what's right for HER. CHOICE.

[American Tragedy]

65. No offense, steve, but isn't this blatantly obvious?

Two words (okay, three if you count the conjunction): Pregnancy and childbirth.

There are no doubt many other compelling reasons that branch from that, but the physical state is what concerns me most personally.

[steve2470]

68. *sigh* I was being cautious since I am a man.

I was not in the mood to be *flamed* for stating my opinion and I have no idea and will never have any idea what it's like to be pregnant, to have a child, etc......

So much for being cautious. :/

[MissB]

66. I'm sure you've gotten the message already, Steve.

But just in case you haven't (and since I'm too lazy to read the whole thread), some pregnancies are considered high-risk. Multiple pregnancies (twins) are high risk, women who give birth over age 30 may be considered high risk, and there are plenty of other factors that can cause a high risk pregnancy.

For instance, my second child ended up being a high risk pregnancy. I was healthy. I also managed to get a specific antigen in my blood through a transfusion after the birth of my first child. It didn't affect me. Dh also has it - and it doesn't affect him.

But now that we're both carriers, any additional pregnancy will be considered high risk. It creates a pregnancy that is far short of a cake walk. I endured countless amnios - the procedure where they stick a big ole' needle into my stomach and draw out some amniotic fluid from around the fetus. Each time, I had to sign a waiver stating that I knew that such a procedure could result in a lost pregnancy. Second worst case scenario for the pregnancy would've been an in-utero blood transfusion to the fetus where the worst case scenario would mean very early delivery. Luckily, it was my first affected pregnancy and my baby came out just fine, although a bit anemic during the first several hours.

It wasn't a cake walk. It wasn't a cheap pregnancy. Even given that all the costs were covered by insurance, it isn't something that a woman should be forced into.

We've made sure that there will be no more babies.

Edited to add: I also ended up on bed rest frequently during the last three months of my pregnancy. Lost work, lost income, job security, family financial security. All those are side factors to carrying a forced pregnancy.

[Left Is Write]

67. I know someone who gave a baby for adoption in 1969.

She was an unmarried 18-year-old who felt she had no other choice.

It was very traumatic for her, and has haunted her and affected her life in ways I couldn't even begin to imagine. I am quite certain that I could never do what she did. Those who say, "You can just give your baby for adoption" may not have any idea what they are talking about. It's not as if you go through the pregnancy and childbirth and all the physical and emotional ramifications thereof, and then blithely hand your baby off and go on your merry way.

[ulysses]

69. as an adoptive parent, allow me to say

that adoption is not an argument against abortion. It's an alternative option, sure, but saying "adopt out the child instead" presupposes the same control over someone else's body.

I am sure there are valid reasons women do not do this.

None of which are our business.