Pretty good discussion on religion on Meet the Press

[Armstead]

Discussion of religion in somewhat more depth than the usual stuff. Michael Lerner (spelling?) from Tikkun is making good points about progressive religious values.

[Vinnie From Indy]

1. The Catholic preist

can't get enough of hearing himself talk.

[capi888]

2. I think Sister made sense...

More so then the priest. Lerner made excellent points.
I am Catholic, and see so much desention in the church. Today's round table proved the point, as Sister and the Priest disagreed on many issues. She said , she thinks serious discussions need to be established to iron out the direction on the Church. I was happy to hear her say that. The direction of the church has changed. They have politicized and many people left the church, as they feel they are not welcome!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

3. I think the priest needed to research the word "pride."

I enjoyed the show.

[WiseButAngrySara]

13. ROFL!! Exactly my opinion. Can we say humility? Arrogant puffball! ..n/t

[highplainsdem]

4. Yes, and she pointed out that Catholics were wise not to try to impose

their views on divorce on all of society, and in general churches should not be trying to impose their religious beliefs on others.

I thought that was one of the strongest arguments I've ever heard against Catholics and religious conservatives saying their beliefs on abortion require them to try to enact laws to impose their beliefs on others. Try asking any Protestant fundie who opposes abortion for religious reasons and welcomes Catholic allies whether he thinks Catholic views of divorce should become national law and all divorces outlawed. A few fundies might believe that...but there are a lot of divorced and remarried fundies out there, including a lot of rightwing politicians who think laws should be changed to reflect religious beliefs.

[stopbush]

5. Two Catholics, a fundy TV preacher, a Xtian lay person (Newsweek guy),

a Rabbi, a Muslim and a Catholic moderator.

Good to see such a diverse (sarcasm) panel discussing the myths.

I guess the atheists and Wiccans will be on next week...

[immoderate]

6. Good point.

At the top of the show they acknowledged that ten percent of the population is secular. Many polls go as high as fifteen. Then they ignored them. That's 45 million people. And their consesus was that religion is a pillar of our social fabric. The Sister came across as the most rational, credit to her.

I'll allow that mixing an atheist in with that crowd might have turned the debate into something else. But there was always that assumtion that religious participation is a positive thing.

--IMM

[kath]

19. That bothered me too - no acknowledgement of non-believers, and always the

overriding assumption that OF COURSE religion is a positive thing. GAG.

Keep religion OUT of government and politics, dammit.

[WiseButAngrySara]

14. There is truth in all of the myths. That's precisely why no one religion

or religious view can be correct. The 'God' that all religions point to is the same, even for the polytheists and pantheists! Even the Buddhists point to the same truth, and they are not atheistic, as most would believe.

[stopbush]

15. Yes, but the truth lies in the human condition and in constructs

that are fabrications of the human mind, not in the reality of this or that sky god.

Science has been pretty busy the past few decades replacing myth
with reality. Just because science hasn't revealed something as yet doesn't
mean that it won't tomorrow or the next day or the next. I see no reason to embrace the myth in the meanwhile.
Dead ends are dead ends.

There's plenty of mystery left in the reality based world to last several lifetimes.

[WiseButAngrySara]

16. I have devoted my life to science, and am highly educated in it; but

science deals with proof of material things and their relationships; the spiritual, being nonmaterial, can never be 'proven' nor 'disproven' by scientific methods! Do you expect to find God with the most powerful telescope? That why religions are based on myths.

[stopbush]

17. No, I believe that "god" has already been found within humanity.

Guess that makes me a Gnostic.

[WiseButAngrySara]

18. The word gnostic comes from the Greek word gnosis, 'to know'; if you

are truly a Gnostic, then you must know that God is immaterial, and not accessible to scientific proof. I have read some of the works of Gnostics, but their belief is Dualistic, and they assert that God is evil for having created matter, which we poor human souls became entrapped in, and was therefore the cause of all human ignorance and suffering. Jung (and Campbell)said that the persecution of the Gnostics was a terrible blow for Christianity, because on many levels, their myths were closer to the truth than was conventional Christian wisdom! On the one hand,I agree with this, but on the other, I can't believe that God is to be blamed for evil; only human ignorance is.

[AuntPatsy]

21. Excellent point and dully noted as to it's supposed fairness.

[truth2power]

7. Today's discussion was excellent!

The nun was Sr. Chittester. She has written a book titled "Called to Question". I'm gonna get that book. She was great and really stood up to that pompous priest. I didn't like him at all.

Also, Rabbi Michael Lerner wrote "The Left Hand of God". He was spot-on about what's going on with the religious right, IMHO. Regrettably, his book is in hardback. $$$. Had it from the library but had to return it right away because it was on reserve.

Also, the individual representing the Islamic position was very articulate. I think he was a professor at George Washington(?) University.

Does anyone know if MTP has transcripts available?

[yankeedem]

8. Amazon sells the Lerner book for 13.36

not too bad, and DU gets a cut if you use the DU link (not the one below).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060842474/sr=8-1/qid=1145201207/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-7284192-6506530?%5Fencoding=UTF8

[truth2power]

10. Thanks, Yankee. That's paperback-rate. n/t

[stopbush]

9. Some questions I wish Russert would have asked his panel:

To the Catholic priest: "Does it piss you off that you're having to sit here next to a woman -
and a Catholic, at that - who is more articulate than you?"

To the Sister: "You're the only woman on this panel. I don't really have a question for you.
My producers said I had to include at least one woman, and you're it."

To the TV preacher: "You said that your church doesn't require any kind of political test
of your members, but is there a requirement somewhere that TV preachers speak with
a Southern accent?"

To The Muslim and Rabbi: "What's it like to sit here for 40 minutes, listening to all of these
Xtians spouting off about inclusiveness, only to hear them state that Jesus is the only way
in their 20-second wrap-ups?"

To the Newsweek guy: "Boy, you've been making the rounds this week. How are book sales?"

[truth2power]

11. Great analysis! n/t

[WiseButAngrySara]

12. I enjoyed the small amount that I heard. Did anyone catch the name

of Rabbi Lerner's internet address? I heard him say the network of spiritual progressives? Author of the book The Left Hand of God...Has anyone read it?

[Lexingtonian]

22. try www.tikkun.org n/t

[Viva_La_Revolution]

23. He was on Book TV a few weeks ago...

but I can't find the video there. :(

[lavenderdiva]

20. here is a link to the complete Meet The Press transcript from today's

broadcast


link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12283802/

great discussion, and the nun was awesome!