Duke, the racist university that rich white kids are sent to

[donsu]

http://www.counterpunch.com/prosen04132006.html

Duke Didn't Admit Its First Black Student Until 1961

Privelege Meets Protest at Duke

In Durham North Carolina, a scant three miles separate Duke from historically black North Carolina Central University (NCCU), but the divide more resembles a canyon. The seismic shock of the recent and now notorious rape charges levied against the Duke Lacrosse team has upturned this complex cultural cocktail of a city, occupied by an aloof and narcissistic private school catering mainly to wealthy students rarely seen outside the gothic cloister of their campus. Tuition at Duke is $43,000 per year, more than four times the cost of NCCU and about $3,000 more than the median joint family income in Durham.

The case in question is by now widely known; Lacrosse players at an elite campus hired two young African-American women as exotic dancers, one a student at NCCU. While details aren't yet clear, the woman has injuries consistent with being raped and sodomized. Lawyers for the team have gone on a remorseless counter-offensive. A new well-heeled booster club called the Committee for Fairness to Duke Families hired the ultimate authority in smearing women who "cry rape: Bill Clinton,s former attorney Bob Bennett. Bennett has already begun, saying, "A lot of innocent young people and the families are being hurt, and unfortunately this situation is being abused by people with separate agendas. It is grossly unfair, and cool heads must prevail."

Bennett and his team have also released personal details about the assault victim. This gets the spotlight off the confirmed squalidness of the case. 911 calls report racist epithets being screamed by men in the party house. Ryan McFayden, a sophomore on the Lacrosse squad, sent an e-mail dated the night of the party describing in morbid detail his fantasy of torturing the exotic dancers, saying, "I plan on killing the bitches as soon as they walk in and proceeding to cut their skin off while cumming in my Duke issue spandex." The same McFayden had the unholy arrogance to show up at the Take Back the Night Rally on campus and while sexual assault survivors gathered in a circle, he stood on the sidelines giving interviews with the Chronicle, Duke's odious student paper. The racial climate on campus is utterly appalling and this isn,t isolated in the world of Lacrosse. Others on campus have noted parties with vile themes, like the "Viva Mexico" bash where students handed out "Green Cards" for invitations. Danielle Terrazas Williams, a grad student at Duke, told the Independent, a local weekly "This is not a different experience for us here at Duke University. We go to class with racist classmates, we go to gym with people who are racists. That's not special for us." Commenting on the persistent sexual harassment faced by black women at Duke, Williams continued, " as if they're re-enacting a rap video or something. As if we're there to be their video ho

Many students, at least the ones that speak from the conservative Chronicle's pulpit, don't seem to grasp what the fuss is about. A screed by Duke junior Stephen Miller is typical: "we are Durham's main attraction. Every time we set foot off-campus, we're actually leaving the best thing the city has to offer-and in turn, entering some of the most violent neighborhoods in the state. Duke is Durham's lifeblood, plain and simple. So if we want to stay on campus or to limit our interaction with Durhamthen we have nothing to apologize for. If anything, the insistence on interacting with Durham locals is condescending to the town residents. Durham isn't a petting zoo. The residents won't get lonely or irritable if we don't play with them." Some have used the term "lynch mob" to describe the reaction from the Durham community to the alleged rape, a response that has included vigils, noisy early morning protests, and sit-ins on campus by outraged and offended students of both Duke and NCCU. These hardly resemble the actual lynch mobs that lurked in the Carolina landscape not so long ago.
-snip-
------------------------------


Duke U. is not the place to send your kids for higher education

gold star for Jessie Jackson for helping the raped woman.

[wakeme2008]

1. Duke is a GREAT school and it is too bad a drunken striper is

hurting it's name. :grr:

the SBI report blew her away....

[Thtwudbeme]

2. I am assuming that you forgot the sarcasm

drip emoticon?

[wakeme2008]

4. No I did not the SBI report tells the truth....

:grr:

[Thtwudbeme]

6. Oh I see. Have you written your first hand eyewitness account

yet on DU? I missed it.

Link please.

[wakeme2008]

7. In the video the defense attornies read from it nt

[WilliamPitt]

10. Have you written yours?

[Thtwudbeme]

14. Don't need to Will...I never have claimed to have "first hand"

knowledge of what happened that night, regardless of all the evidence.

I have never posted an "I am right on this issue" post on this.

I have said that Duke has a bad reputation in NC; I think I can safely write that after being here for the better part of 42 years.

[WilliamPitt]

15. Fair enough

[oddtext]

86. seconded . . .

36 years here.

[wakeme2008]

13. Here is some

http://www.herald-sun.com/durham/4-723005.html

awyers: DNA tests show Duke players innocent

By JOHN STEVENSON, The Herald-Sun
April 11, 2006 12:41 am

DURHAM -- Long-awaited DNA testing failed to link Duke lacrosse players to the alleged gang rape of an exotic dancer at an off-campus party last month, lawyers defending the athletes announced Monday.

None of the men's DNA was on the inside or outside of the woman's body or on her clothing or belongings, the lawyers said.

..cut...

Thomas said investigators found none of the alleged victim's DNA in a bathroom where she claimed she was raped, sodomized, kicked, beaten and strangled by three lacrosse players during the party.

No lacrosse players' DNA was found beneath her fingernails, the defense lawyers said -- though the application for a court order to obtain the players' DNA samples said the victim "was clawing at one of the suspect's arms in an attempt to breathe while being strangled."

"There is no evidence other than the word of this one complaining person that any sexual assault took place," Cheshire said at a press conference on the steps of the Durham County Judicial Building. "No assault occurred. This says that loud and clear. ... It is a very dramatic report. It shows they are innocent."

[Thtwudbeme]

20. So, the boy's attorney has declared them innocent

without a trial, and you offer that up as "proof" that Duke is just a fabulous college, and this tramp is out to ruin it's reputation.

Lemme guess, you believe OJ is guilty as hell, but his wife was acting like a whore with all those guys and stuff....and you know that you are right because you saw all that stuff on TV.

[wakeme2008]

24. What part of the SBI report did you NOT understand

:grr:

[Thtwudbeme]

26. oh cut it out with the little flaming emoticon

and the nothing to say posts.

Why don't you wait until all the facts come out.

Why don't you show some fucking outrage about living in a country where a single mom has to strip for a bunch of rich frat boys to try and make a better life instead of snotting off about what a "great institution" Duke is?

Your "outrage" is ridiculous.

[wakeme2008]

29. Read this post about this person's other run in with the law

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=943244&mesg_id=943366

[Thtwudbeme]

31. I am not fucking interested

what I am interested in is why this type of wage and lifestyle disparity exists in this "great" country with these "great" institutions.

[LisaL]

41. Are you a communist?

To everyone according to their needs? Not here, in US. And neither anywhere else, for that matter.

[JackDragna]

69. What the hell?

Am I seeing red-baiting here on DU? Does someone have to be a communist to lament about the deplorable disparity in income that exists in the western world between the haves and have-nots? My god, you're on the wrong message board, kemosabe.

[Thtwudbeme]

70. note I didn't respond to that comment

I did laugh pretty hard though; haven't had someone ask me if I am a "commie" in about 3 years!

I have been called a Socialist too---in a disparaging manner---because I think everyone should have decent health care, and affordable quality food and water! *gasp* the horror!

;)

[LisaL]

72. Those are very good intentions.

In theory.

[Thtwudbeme]

73. gosh darn, lizzy

that "theory" of affordable health care sure seems to be working in other countries!

[LisaL]

75. I don't see it happening in US any time soon, unfortunately.

[Thtwudbeme]

77. it sure as hell won't with people like you calling liberals "communists,"

dear.

ya think?

I am going to go out a limb here and suggest that your voting record might not help, either.

Just sayin'

[LisaL]

84. I don't necessarily think communist is a derogatory term.

Do you?

[LisaL]

71. I am just saying-

by the way, the communists tried to put an end to the deplorable disparity in income that existed, for instance, in Russia-and look how that turned out.

[msongs]

44. she did not HAVE to strip for anyone, that was her CHOICE

to specifically address only your statement that she "has to strip" - now she could do something else but did not.

as far as the rape allegation, it is not news around here so no comment to its truth.



Msongs
www.msongs.com/impeachbush.

[LisaL]

40. In the eyes of the law, they are innocent. They don't need a trial

to prove their innocence. Prosecution has to show proof they are guilty. And unless prosecution provides any such proof, they are innocent.

[bettyellen]

47. but lizzy, you thought michael schiavo was guilty- and he wasn't even

being charged with anything.
didn't stop you from thinking frist and those fundies were on target.

[LisaL]

49. Private citizen can think whatever the hell he/she wants.

As long as they are not on the jury. But for this DA to actually take this case to trial, he will need to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to get a conviction.
Notice my post said "they are innocent in the eyes of the law". As they are, because our justice system assumes the defendant to be innocent until proven guilty in the court of law, not the other way around.

[bettyellen]

55. just saying. you shouldn;t have a problem with people slamming the team

after all the crazy fristian, she was beaten by michael shifty eyed schiavo and can see things stuff you fell for and spouted.
i'm just ot much for the speculations myself.
we know so little, and intuit way too much.

[LisaL]

67. And you shouldn't have a problem with someone slamming this

woman then? Why so many complain she is being trashed?

[bettyellen]

78. honestly, i think it's because people see her as more deserving of

rape, as if she's a lesser life form. like it or not, it's like the italian courts saying it's a bigger deal if a virgin gets raped. there's a more slippery than usual slope of blaming the alleged victim here. you'd have to be blind to miss it.
and more links to RW blogs and Fox news reports than i have EVER seen. that freaks me out.

[Thtwudbeme]

79. Bettyellen

for the record,

I am the ONLY one so far on this thread that has been asked if I am a "communist."

I RULE.

;)

(Joking aside, this stuff is pretty damned horrifying, isn't it.)

[bettyellen]

81. i have never seen people linking to such scary half assed info before in

my life. and other DUers thank them for it!
thanked for reports written by guest "experts" from Fox news. that's from the site that is always pro-defendant- people here think it's unbiased though.
and then there's that one from the society to protect guys from sexism, because they have great rape stats, donchaknow!
i don't know how to respond to such crazy shit. it's sad. wtf are these people thinking?



sp.

[Thtwudbeme]

82. Well, I keep coming back to this thread

because it's one of those great ones that I can use to update my "ignore" list.

But, I agree with you...and have to say how weird it is to see some old DUers that I respect on here--

[Thtwudbeme]

56. When I used to watch Nightcourt, they used the term "Presumed

innocent."

Presumed is not the same thing as proven.

[LisaL]

68. Our courts do not prove anyone innocent.

You are either proven guilty or not guilty. Not proven innocent.
Not guilty might mean you are innocent, but in the eyes of law it actually means there is no evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty.
The prosecution is supposed to prove guilt. The defense isn't supposed to prove innocence, just cast reasonable doubt. That's how our justice system works.

[AngryAmish]

25. The KKK is a GREAT organization and its too bad...

I'm speechless.

[KingFlorez]

53. Something did happen

You really need to know all the facts of this case

[ShortnFiery]

3. Yes, and unless we live in Georgia or have other ties to this ...

Let's allow it to go back to being a local story?

Major Distraction Folks and it will never make it's way to The Supreme Court.

Much better to help Democrats get elected so we don't have anymore "Unitary Executive Branch" supporters nominated by future republican Presidents? Now the forgoing would turn back the hands of time on a MULTITUDE of Human Rights protections that MLK and others worked so hard to secure.

[Thtwudbeme]

5. If it's a local problem, why would anyone in GA care?

?

[ShortnFiery]

9. There's nothing positive to come from this "haranguing"

from either side.

Karl Rove is drooling all over himself because it just inflames the already present and intense racism ... both sides.

Nothing positive will come from focusing on this ONE particular case. There are so many more important issues - for those of us who are not personally invested to HYPER-focus on.

It's just my opinion that it's sad to banter on an issue where ALL THE FACTS will never be aired, and even if they are, people's entrenched prejudices will NOT accept them.

This is a Lose - Lose situation for either side. :(

[Thtwudbeme]

12. My point was, Duke is in NC

and everytime a racial issue comes up, we have DUers that want to tell us that these should be considered "local" problems.

I don't think that the Duke problem (Duke is in Durham, NC, btw) is "local." I don't consider it a NC problem that women work as strippers and sex workers to attempt to make a better life for themselves; I do not consider that men can write emails describing what they want to do to these women a "local" problem.

[ShortnFiery]

18. "Duke is in NC"

Sorry, I stand corrected. :blush:

Guess that further makes my point in a way. I known some real a**hole men in college, and IMO, the worst of them were frat rats.

I can not be objective but at least I admit it.

From what I know about my interactions with rich white boys, yeah, I'm on the side of the victim. ;)

SEE! No one can win here because we bring all our past experiences and prejudices into this issue?

Best to let the legal system work without our personal bias cheer-leading on either side.

Thanks for correcting me on the state Duke U. = NC. :hi:

[marions ghost]

27. many of the lacrosse players

were from New York and other points north. Seems like this could have happened anywhere. But it's supposed to be a "local" NC phenomenon. I object to that too.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

8. Oh, please.................

To defame a great institution like Duke because of an incident that took place - and, I might add, about which not much is really known yet - is to display one's ignorance in a vast forum without shame. Posting this crap here just compounds its vacuousness.

Good old Jesse Jackson, who is worthless except when the cameras just might be rolling. His appearance in this matter smacks of Tawana Brawley, at least to this old leftie. Jackson does nothing except mug for the press and make big, fat pronouncements about things he doesn't understand. I suppose the presumption of innocence means nothing to him, so we can now watch Jesse Jackson wipe his butt with the Constitution just so that he can pretend to be some kind of leader in the African-American community.

How much comfort would he have offered a Caucasian complainant, I wonder?

This is a legal matter, best left to the investigators. Pulling out the race card at this point just tells me that something's awry, and it's not Duke, which has behaved admirably since all this happened, right down to releasing next year's recruits from their lacrosse letters of intent.

This kind of vulgar, unthinking, racist stupidity just irks me.

[marions ghost]

35. actually

I have a theory (and it's only my theory) that the victim's race is helping her in this case, in that she has the backing of a very solid black community in Durham. If the victim had been white, with the antiquated attitudes toward women and rape, it's possible it wouldn't have even gotten this far. Somebody would just have been paid off and it would have been hushed up.

I'm glad to see this under investigation for the sake of women of all races, and I think Nifong is doing his best. Considering the wealth and privilege of the alleged perpetrators, these kinds of sexual attacks are often swept under the rug. It's often not even considered a crime, just a little male aberration. We'll never change anything if these cases are not prosecuted. Even if the "boys" are guilty but manage to get off like OJ, it will send a message. And at this point, it's possible the allegations can be challenged, since we don't have all the evidence, and that won't particularly help the cause of women, to say the least. But it helps that the prosecutor is taking her seriously.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

38. WOW!

Your assumptions - which, sadly, don't include the Constitutionally-guaranteed presumption of innocence - are underwhelming in terms of supporting your contentions.

What makes you think these students are blessed with 'wealth and privilege"? What do you know of their backgrounds and financials states, given that they're probably all scholarship students, and what on earth does that have to do with a rape investigation?

I daresay you're doing the same thing you decry from the other side, only your stance sits squarely on the side of something so anti-American, it's frightening - you're convicting on the basis of what you think, not what actually happened.

You sent a message, all right. The message is that you are willing to sacrifice basic and secured rights for the chance to imprint your own, flawed version of reality in order to make some kind of point about unreported rapes, which is hardly the case here.

Shameful, really, this sort of bigotry.

[marions ghost]

48. WOW

you don't like where I'm coming from. Gee I'm sorry.

Your "constitutionally guaranteed presumptions" don't impress me either. No, I do NOT have a high opinion of the legal system when it comes to any case involving citizens of wealth and privilege. There is a double standard. You get the justice you can afford to pay for in this country. I would think if you were a lawyer you would know about this inequality in the system. Also, when it comes to cases of rape in general I would think you would know that this level playing field you allude to is nonsense.

My main point is that it is good when cases such as this even see the light of day. I indicated that I do not think anyone can predict the outcome at this point. I said we don't have all the evidence, and the woman may be falsely accusing. It is good that the prosecutor takes it seriously, is ALL I said. So often they don't. It's not unreasonable to expect a prosecutor to discourage a victim without deep pockets from fighting such a case.

As for these Duke students being blessed with wealth and privilege, I can't imagine that most of them aren't by most standards. (My own brother played Lacrosse and went to a college such as Duke, so I'm familiar with the territory). I know about the way that those of wealth and privilege can manipulate the system. Aren't our present leaders in Washington proof enough of that? I have also seen it in personal examples.

As for bigotry, Get Back, oldleftylawyer. That's an insult where I come from. I said the victim was LUCKY to have a solid and strong community behind her who want to see that justice is done, unlike most victims of sexual assault. What is bigotry there? I think this case is more about sexual assault in general than race. The race factor has been blown up. Explain yourself for calling what I said bigotry. I don't take that lightly.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

51. Wealth and privilege

As soon as you show me that that's true, how it affects the facts of the case, and why you - an American citizen exercising the right of free speech - find that the presumption of innocence doesn't hold because you don't like the facts of the case, you have nothing to offer of any value, and your rhetoric is as empty as your values.

Bigotry, indeed. You know nothing, and yet you condemn. Woe unto what you might have been promoting had the victim been white and the players of color.

Shame on you, throwing away our precious Constitutional rights for the sake of shoring up your prejudice and ignorance. As I said, your speech is protected, and that's wonderful, but your speech is uninformed and hateful.

Take it lightly, take it hard - it's reality, it's truth, and your biases are too far gone for me to witness.

[bettyellen]

60. there are some incredibly offensive assumptions of racism.

that actually seem to be based on comments about class issues.
and the fact that the poster does indeed give the presumption of innocence totally flew over your head. and if you're actually a lawyer, that's scary.
like you say, WOW!

[marions ghost]

61. you twist well oldlefty lawyer

you're pretty good at the personal attack too, a feature of our times.

You might not like my opinions. But it is not I who has thrown away our "precious constitutional rights" in this country. I can only laugh at that notion. I don't even think I have Freedom of Speech really, to object to what has been done to us as a nation. Do you NOT think the spirit and letter of the constitution has been destroyed by others more powerful than I?

I never ONCE said "had the victim been white and the players of color" -- sorry, I didn't make that crystal clear--I meant if the victim was white in THIS situation (and the alleged perps in this case are white). I did not intend to make it a reversal situation. You did that. You missed my whole point. WHO is judging without enough evidence here??! I don't have to try to prove I'm not any kind of bigot to you...the evidence would be overwhelming to you that I am not, nor have I ever been. My criticism is of the system, that it does not protect sexually assaulted women or people of lesser means nearly enough. And you think that it DOES?

How wealth and privilege affects the FACTS of the case...OK well, I don't know enough about the facts of this particular case to know (yet) but my OPINION is that wealth and privilege affects the facts of EVERY case in this country. Wealth and privilege carries an advantage in every legal case in this country, no matter what the charges. I see this case as possibly indicative in that regard. Do you argue OTHERWISE? If so, I find that enlightening. Most people I know, whether they come from wealthy backgrounds or not, agree with me.

Whew, I can't tell WHERE you're coming from. Please calm down. And cut out the insults. My criticisms are of the system, NOT individuals no matter what color they are. It is the system that reeks of corruption by the privileged and wealthy. That is what I want to see changed.

[bettyellen]

52. you missed the presumption of innocence in that post

he said "even if" they are guilty. not "even if" they are innocent.
no presumption of guilt there.

[cali]

54. You're right.

I did miss that, and I missed a lot more than that too, or rather I just hung it up part way through. Virtually every sentence in that article is filled with bias and even hate. if a reader can't see it, I suspect, it's because they're coming from the same place.

[bettyellen]

62. not you, funnily enough- the "lawyer" missed the presumption of innocence

perhaps old means retired. here's hoping.

[Orangepeel]

65. I have a theory that this is getting press because it's Duke

and, the lacrosse team, which sounds hoity-toity.

Rape is a terrible crime (which should go without saying) and, of course, allegations of it should be taken and investigated very seriously. But, sad as it is to say, this is hardly the first time that a woman has been (allegedly) raped by a bunch of college guys.

How many women have been raped at, say, frat parties at State U?

I don't exactly why this case has engendered so much interest, passion and hostility. Race, class, that she was a hired stripper, that there is a heated election for DA, other issues or some combination of the above. All the attention could be a good thing, if it encourages women who were raped to come forward and prosecutes to pursue the cases. It could be an awful thing if it does the opposite.

[LisaL]

11. Guilty, guilty - I tell you. Of being rich white kids.

They can no more help being rich white kids than someone can help being a poor black kid.

[QC]

34. No, they are not "rich white kids."

They are privileged melanin-deficient penised-persons.

:silly:

[niallmac]

16. If you have the money and your kids are responsible

I doubt you could find many better universities than Duke.
It is laughable to jump on this story and try to brand
an entire institution like Duke with one muddy broad brush.
You who do so know the world is not that simple.

Tell your Duke trained chest surgeon you would
rather have another from any other school...just
as long as there were no Lacrosse incidents at the school.

Are you angry that Duke tuition costs so much?
Maybe if we didn't sit around and let our country
rape our wealth in the name of killing we could
offer higher education to every deserving child
in America.
Lets see, how many nuclear subs and B2
bombers and criminal wars would we have to sacrifice
for that to happen?

[BlackHeart]

17. Duke Didn't Admit Its First Black Student Until 1961

So what? What is happening now in regard to minority enrollment?

[QC]

37. And Yale didn't admit women until 1969. n/t

[cali]

19. Counterpunch

is an inflamatory rag. Once in a while they publish something of value, but this shit is deplorable.
And I must say, I agree with Leftie that Jackson has become nothing more than a relentless publicity hound. This article is so bad that it's not worth dissecting it.

[donsu]

23. oh please, dissect it for us

nt

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

21. Don't lambast with such a broad brush, Donsu

Duke has long had a very robust pro-Democrat movement and a strong civil rights tradition since its desegregation. Remember, even Ivy League schools in the north took many decades into the 20th century to desegregate themselves, and racism has long been rife there as well.

Every institution has some bad apples, EVERY ONE. If you think these sorts of racist things *don't* happen at places like Yale or Stanford as well, then you're hopelessly naive. They happen everywhere, and they're in the distinct minority, especially at an institution like Duke. I've met many fine southern liberals who've done tremendous and important work for the progressive cause, and it's surprising how many of them have come from Duke and other schools in the region. That place is a real liberal bulwark for us in an otherwise very conservative region.

If you hit the entire school for the acts of a few, then you are a fool doing great damage to our movement. If you want to point fingers, point them at the prep-school jerks who started this mess in the first place (whether or not they actually committed the rape, they were very clearly fulminatingly racist). Don't tar an entire school with this brush, a school that by and large, is a great asset of us overall.

[Kingshakabobo]

22. "Lawyers for the team have gone on a remorseless counter-offensive."

LOL. Remorseless: Pointing out that several people, including a policeman, thought that she was inebriated almost to the point of unconsciousness (by the way, the tapes came out from a media FOIR). Another time she got that wasted she stripped for a cabdriver, stole his car and tried to run over a cop after a high-speed chase. That, coupled with the 911 call that is looking more and more like a set-up.

Pointing out that the DAs much touted DNA evidence didn't pan out. That and the photo evidence that, according to the defense team and the reporters that have viewed it, doesn't match her story.

This story smells bad enough that we shouldn't be condemning 43-46 students let alone a whole school.

[Orangepeel]

28. I know lots of people who went to Duke, none racist and most didn't

grow up rich.

My husband went to Duke, as did much of his family and many of his lifelong friends. He's certainly not racist (or rich). All are very smart and liberal. Many chose a life in public service.

Duke is no more a school for rich racists than any ivy league school.

[ShortnFiery]

32. I was acquainted with one white Man who was proud of graduating

from *Duke* (oh, you should have heard the guttural way he'd exclaim it).

Well, he sure as sh*t was a shameless racist, so perhaps ... <fill in the blanks>

We're all inserting our own personal background experience into this issue.

Again, IMO, no good can come of this case. :(

[Orangepeel]

42. perhaps what? perhaps there *are* racists at Duke?

Good luck finding a school that no racists ever attended. There sure as hell were racists at the inexpensive public school that I went to.

The OP states that people shouldn't send their kids to Duke because it is a racist institution. My own experience with Duke alumni is relevant to my opinion that that this opinion is wrong.

I agree with you that no good can come of this case (of course, I don't know what good could ever come of either a rape or a rape accusation).

[ShortnFiery]

46. I forgot the "tongue-in-cheek" comment, but my core point stands

firm, with the lack of any more TRUE evidence, we all, some unknowingly are injecting our own personal prejudices into this issue.

This is how the Corporate MSM serves it's Neo-Con masters best. Why? We don't even know that we are being distracted from the most important news of the day. :(

I request that we wait until the legal system runs it's course. Many will not, but I do FEAR that the more we invest into a situation with many potential racial undertones, the more we get mired in "the mud " of sheer conjecture and hyperbole. I'm no exception - that's why I'm trying to learn as little about this case as possible. :hi:

[NWHarkness]

30. "Duke U. is not the place to send your kids for higher education"

Bullshit. You don't have clue one.

[donsu]

33. Ok - you can send your kids there. I wouldn't send mine.

nt

[donsu]

36. for those of you who didn't read the whole article - here:

The campus press may have changed but the fights of the sixties are hardly over. Activists on both campuses that were separate just a few weeks ago have begun to unite against the town,s class divide and racist bigotry. African-American students at Duke occupied the Allen building again two weeks ago. A large and inspiring vigil was held at the NCCU campus last week, and activists have continued to put pressure on. The solidarity built between activists on both campuses and in the city is breaking down the walls meant to keep them apart. The Lacrosse legal team has called on the woman to drop all charges "so the community can heal. Durham will only heal if its proud tradition can be recalled in the name of justice.

[cali]

39. Sure.

The first sentence is an indictment of Duke. OK, Duke didn't admit its first black student until 1961. How does that compare with other Southern Universities? More to the point, what's their record in the intervening 45 years? How does the number of minority students at Duke compare to other Universities of roughly the same size and of equal prestige? Until we know that, the accusation inherent in the statement that Duke didn't admit it's first black student unitl 1961, is useless, except to foster negative emotion toward the University.

Comparing Duke's tuition and costs to NCCU is a red herring. So? In my state Bennington costs more than 4x the cost of one of the colleges in the State College system, and admission is more than the median income in many towns in Vermont.

The words used to describe Duke are freighted with bias: Don't you think it's a tad absurd to label a University as 'narcissistic' and 'aloof'? Describing the student newspaper as 'odious" without detailing why it's odious, other than that it interviewed a now suspended Lacross team member who wrote a disgusting email, is hardly the height of responsible journalism. Calling the racial climate at Duke utterly appalling follows suit. The author cited one student and gave the example of one party as his proof. That's not enough to damn the entire school.

I could go on, but I think those examples speak for themselves. Duke may be as bad as the author claims, but he/she sure didn't make the claim, and yes it's inflamatory bullshit. Rhetoric at it's worst.

[msongs]

45. the OP did not mention blacks-only colleges....

if the point is to indict racism and an entire university for being racist even when it is open to any race, one may
wish to indict other schools that are soley based on race. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, indeed :-)

Msongs
www.msongs.com/impeachbush

[FreakinDJ]

43. Maybe we should enact laws to bar the Press

Maybe we should enact laws to bar the Press, or maybe we should live in communist China.

The prosecution is unhindered in reporting every negative aspect of the case against the students and yet some blame the defense for reporting findings in support of their position.

Let the jury decide

[wakeme2008]

50. Some addition info from Newsweek

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12115147/site/newsweek/

"But if the three lacrosse captains who occupy the house had anything to hide, they didn't act like it. They cooperated in the search and voluntarily went down to the police station to give statements, without lawyers present. Their offer to take a lie-detector test was rebuffed by police."


..


The players' families reject the cliché that the Duke players are privileged louts. Two of the players are sons of retired New York City firemen who responded to the 9/11 attacks.

....

Joseph Cheshire, a lawyer representing one of the players, says that the prosecutor has unfairly tried the players in the media to serve his own political agenda. (Nifong is up for re-election in May and one of his opponents is black.) "The real story," says Cheshire, "is how he has pandered to the public to stir up race and class division." Nifong did not respond to repeated requests for comment on Cheshire's charge.

[BrownOak]

57. Something Counterpunch likely didn't want to put in there...

Duke University's admission policy is "need blind" meaning that all qualified applicants are accepted. Duke will meet 100% of their demonstrated financial need. 42% of all students at Duke are on some sort of financial aid package, including 40% who are on University grant/scholarship funds.

But of course, that doesn't give anyone any reason to get all indignant about the place.

[wakeme2008]

59. My nephew will be going there in a couple years, or to another

private school because my brother and sil work at Duke Hospital and they are grandfathered into the rule that Duke will pay 80% of the tuition for Duke or another private school....

[cali]

64. That's precisely what pisses

me off so much at this sleazy, awful article, and by extension, Counterpunch. How dishonest can you get?

[laureloak]

58. ANY parent would be proud to have their child

accepted at Duke.

Again, you are trying and convicting when you don't even know if there was a crime. Time to let go of all the resentment you've been harboring and open your eyes to your own contributions to race problems. Change YOUR behavior because you can't change anybody else's.

[Thtwudbeme]

63. Not one of my family, or closest friends would have been proud to have

their child attend Duke.

Duke is despised by a good many people in NC; it's reputation here is horrible.

Many that could be/would be/and have been's accepted students CHOOSE to attend the University of NC instead--or Davidson, or any number of decent schools in this state.

[BrownOak]

74. Which likely says more

about you and your family than it does the university. Let me guess, UNC folks, right?

[Thtwudbeme]

76. regardless of what my statement "says,"

I was trying to explain that not everyone would be "proud" to go to Duke.

It's reputation here in NC isn't all that fantastic.

And, btw--no. I am actually a private school fan of a couple of other colleges--just to let you know.

Steph

[BrownOak]

80. Well,, I live in NC

and most of the people I know hold the university in high regard. Those who don't typically tend to do so out of something as petty as a sporting allegiance.

[wakeme2008]

83. LOL there is a little problem in NC about Basketball teams.......

:rofl:

[adwon]

85. ?

In sports, sure. But as a general rule, no. It's not as though Davidson or Carolina aren't packed to the gills with rich kids, either. This is just a weird comment.

[saltpoint]

66. A quaint feature of the justice system in this country invovles

presumption of innocense until beyond-a-reasonble-doubt evidence proves otherwise.

Duke University is no more "a racist university" than Tire Kingdom is a racist tire retail outlet.

Income of enrollees at a school is not a gauge of personal character, nevermind of legal culpability.

What tripe.

[Moderator]

87. locking...

This has become inflammatory.