What was the real reason for Bush being hell-bent for invading Iraq?

[Imagevision]

No WMD'S - cherry picked the intelligence - Cheney discredits Wilson because he spoke the truth about Niger.

If not for oil, why was this administration dead set on bombing this country and going out of their way to discredit anyone who got in their way.

Someone told me that it is because the "US." wants a permanent presense in the mid east, what do you think??

[vssmith]

1. If the region wasn't full of oil we would be totally uninterested!!!

[Old and In the Way]

2. Oil....British Petroleum

If they wanted a share, they had to sign on to the invasion/occupation.

[YDogg]

3. Just because bush thinks he's a badass gunslinger?

[Drum]

4. Permanent bases they like,

and don't forget the fact that Iraq was making noise (before the US plowed n there) about switching its oil commerce from US$ to Euros, just as Iran is doing now...coincidence?

[otohara]

5. PNAC

they've wanted to do it for years! Before 9/11 -

[Cleetus]

6. testoterone driven teenage bully

More than anything, the chimp wanted to be a "War Preident". 9/11 gave him the opportunity to be a President with a legacy. The chimp is a pitiful, pathetic, testosterone driven teenage bully who has major issues with his daddy.

9/11 is chimpy's Pearl Harbor, Iraq is chimpy's WW2, the chimp is a "War President". Shame that his war is such a total clusterfuck that he's going to start another one.

Fucking bastard.

[Imagevision]

52. Don't believe most people have a clue why Bush insists on continueing war

[LeftHander]

7. To be able to say he did something Daddy didn't - took over Iraq - nt

[Robbien]

8. The $7 billion embassy we are building in Iraq should answer your question

The enormous embassy along with the 14 permanent military bases in Iraq sends a very clear signal.

[EFerrari]

11. And, didn't Cheney need to do something about asbestos?

He needed to get their stock out of the toilet and fix all those asbestos law suits because he would have gone broke if they went against him.

Invading Iraq seems to have done the trick.

[Imagevision]

9. So, Bush needs Ruymsfeld to keep this war going then? while we position

ourselves for securing the oil-flow?

[JDPriestly]

10. So Halliburton could put in another parking lot.

It's a way of transferring money from the taxpayers to the multinational corporations. The next step is for the agri-corps. to move into Iraq and start developing the country. Then they will need infrastructure to help the economy grow. Read John Perkins' Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. Hussein, undeniably cruel despot that he was, had one positive thing going for him: he was unwilling to sell his country's future, his people's future out to the World Bank. Bush showed him (and a lot of other uppity folk like him) what happens to people who don't play the game of the World Bank.

[jmowreader]

48. One positive thing? I can think of several

People don't want to give Saddam Hussein the credit he deserves.

Saddam ran a secular government in a place where theocracies tend to thrive. The only way you can do that is to be a cruel despot. Saddam's inner circle contained women and Christians--Tariq Aziz, Saddam's right-hand man, is a Christian.

Saddam also believed in the equality of women. An Iraqi woman was guaranteed to be treated just as shabbily as an Iraqi man, and no more. Iraqi women were not required to wear chador as non-Iraqi Muslim women are.

Before August 1990, when Iraq invaded Kuwait as payback for Kuwait's slant-drilling the al-Rumaila oilfield (which is entirely within Iraq), Saddam invested massive amounts of money in infrastructure. Iraq had great schools. It had great hospitals. One of the few true things Bush said during the runup to war was that various terrorists went to the doctor in Iraq. Bush then extrapolated to imply that Saddam was supporting terra because terrorists went to the doctor in Iraq...what it really means is that if you gotta go to the doctor and you live in the Middle East, you want to go to the doctor in Iraq. It would be like invading Minnesota because lots of swarthy foreigners go to the doctor there...and not mentioning that the Mayo Clinic is in Minnesota.

[savemefromdumbya]

12. Yes Reagan started this and also Saddam wanted euro oil

[Marr]

13. It's about controlling the oil.

Building permanent bases is a part of that. It's all pretty much laid out in the PNAC's own public statements. They were shockingly audacious about their intentions. The fact that their stated motivations (which were in stark contrast to their public claims) barely received a mention in the corporate media is very telling.

Anyway- if you're talking about Bush specifically... I'm not so sure, since it sort of speaks to his personal character. If I were to hazard a guess just based on my impression of the man, I'd say that he became hell-bent on invading the moment someone convinced him to *say it*. He seems incapable of admitting fault, or conceding any argument, no matter how weak his position or how much trouble that simple admission would save.

[Oversea Visitor]

15. Oil yes

But oil can buy.
Guess they just like to steal
After all look at what is going on with your tax dollars
All got stolen no accounting.

[INdemo]

40. Think about this

The price of oil is not because OPEC raised the price ...the Price per Barrel was driven up by speculators..And it is a real risky venture to speculate on oil..But Bush's buddies have mad millions,including Bush Sr.
Think about when the oil really started to go sky high..it was after the invasion of Iraq and the oil fields of Iraq were being brought back on line..Then of course after the election the price went into orbit.. SO Dubya will be quite comfortable with all the pay back from the oil cartel he has supported when he leaves office.

[warrior1]

14. Good question

but it begs this one too. When will bush get out?

[Imagevision]

17. Bush, get out? - Why would he want to? Halliburton=record profits along

with the US. & British oil companies. Why would you kill the cash cow?? Bush is fighting a war on terrorism while he states he doesn't know where Bin Laden is nor is he a priority...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

16. To enrich himself and his rich buddies with Iraq's oil eventually

Isn't it true that despite everything they have 5,500 people in the U.S. embassy in Baghdad? What does that tell you? They're planning to steal oil, get cheap labor, control the country, squeeze the lifeblood out of it, and get the American rich richer than even now.

[Imagevision]

45. umm, 9 billion goes unaccounted for in Iraq? that's deep...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

46. Follow the money. At the end of the trail is Cheney and his rich pals. nt

[EVDebs]

18. Nixon's 1973 plans to seize Saudi oil fields. Switched to Iraq

and now heading for Iran. Permanent bases moved out of Saudi Arabia and moved to the Iraqi oil fields. Quakers web link put the map on the web...derr. JudicialWatch also put map of Iraq oil fields on the web so you can compare the oil fields to the base sites. It doesn't take a genius to figure this one out people.

[JohnyCanuck]

19. Who says it is not about the oil

Iraq and the Problem of Peak Oil
by F. William Engdahl

Today, much of the world is convinced the Bush Administration did not wage war against Iraq and Saddam Hussein because of threat from weapons of mass destruction, nor from terror dangers. Still a puzzle, however, is why Washington would risk so much in terms of relations with its allies and the entire world, to occupy Iraq. There is compelling evidence that oil and geopolitics lie at the heart of the still-hidden reasons for the military action in Iraq.

It is increasingly clear that the US occupation of Iraq is about control of global oil resources. Control, however, in a situation where world oil supplies are far more limited than most of the world has been led to believe. If the following is accurate, the Iraq war is but the first in a major battle over global energy resources, a battle which will be more intense than any oil war to date. The stakes are highest. It is about fixing who will get how much oil for their economy at what price and who not. Never has such a choke-hold on the world economy been in the hands of one power. After occupation of Iraq it appears it is.

SNIP

According to the best estimates of a number of respected international geologists, including the French Petroleum Institute, Colorado School of Mines, Uppsala University and Petroconsultants in Geneva, the world will likely feel the impact of the peaking of most of the present large oil fields and the dramatic fall in supply by the end of this decade, 2010, or possibly even several years sooner. At that point, the world economy will face shocks which will make the oil price rises of the 1970's pale by contrast. In other words, we face a major global energy shortage for the prime fuel of our entire economy within about seven years.

SNIP

Some recent cases make the point. In 1991 the largest discovery in the Western Hemisphere since the 1970's, was found at Cruz Beana in Columbia. But its production went from 500,000 barrels a day to 200,000 barrels in 2002. In the mid-1980's the Forty Field in North Sea produced 500,000 barrels a day. Today it yields 50,000 barrels. One of the largest discoveries of the past 40 years, Prudhoe Bay, produced some 1.5 million barrels a day for almost 12 years. In 1989 it peaked, and today gives only 350,000 barrels daily. The giant Russian Samotlor field produced a peak of 3,500,000 barrels a day. It has now dropped to 325,000 a day. In each of these fields, production has been kept up by spending more and more to inject gas or water to maintain field pressures, or other means to pump the quantity of oil. The world's largest oil field, Ghawar in Saudi Arabia, produces near 60% of all Saudi oil, some 4.5 million barrels per day. To achieve this, geologists report that the Saudis must inject 7 million barrels a day of salt water to keep up oil well pressure, an alarming signal of near collapse of output in the world's largest oil kingdom.

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ENG408A.html

Desert Rats Leave The Sinking Ship
by Greg Palast

SNIP

Garner arrived in Kuwait City in March 2003 working under the mistaken notion that when George Bush called for democracy in Iraq, the President meant the Iraqis could choose their own government. Misunderstanding the President's true mission, General Garner called for Iraqis to hold elections within 90 days and for the U.S. to quickly pull troops out of the cities to a desert base. "It's their country," the General told me of the Iraqis. "And," he added, most ominously, "their oil."

Let's not forget: it's all about the oil. I showed Garner a 101-page plan for Iraq's economy drafted secretly by neo-cons at the State Department, Treasury and the Pentagon, calling for "privatization" (i.e. the sale) of "all state assets ... especially in the oil and oil-supporting industries." . The General knew of the plans and he intended to shove it where the Iraqi sun don't shine. Garner planned what he called a "Big Tent" meeting of Iraqi tribal leaders to plan elections. By helping Iraqis establish their own multi-ethnic government -- and this was back when Sunnis, Shias and Kurds were on talking terms -- knew he could get the nation on its feet peacefully before a welcomed "liberation" turned into a hated "occupation."

But, Garner knew, a freely chosen coalition government would mean the death-knell for the neo-con oil-and-assets privatization grab.

On April 21, 2003, three years ago this month, the very night General Garner arrived in Baghdad, he got a call from Washington. It was Rumsfeld on the line. He told Garner, in so many words, "Don't unpack, Jack, you're fired."

http://gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=493&row=0

[Demobrat]

20. In order to stop the Iraquis

from exporting their oil - thereby keeping the price of gas, and the profits of W's American oil-producing friends UP. Of course the unspoken assumption was always that the reason for the war was to keep American SUVs overflowing with cheap gas and rolling merrily along, which is how he got the majority to wink, nod and go along with it. But that was just more BS. Follow the money. Who benefits? Texas oil companies, that's who.

[BrklynLiberal]

21. That is what gets my vote.

[teryang]

22. create enemies abroad to support illegitimate regime at home

it's an old Roman strategy, discussed by Machiavelli at length. The most admired institution in ancient Roman Republic per Machiavelli was the office of the wartime dictator.

The practices of the bushista's and the neo-cons are all spelled out in Machiavelli's discourses. Strauss is little more than rehashed Machiavellianism.

[leftofthedial]

23. control and parse out the oil supply for as long as possible

guaranteeing maximum profits


in part, by taking Iraq's oil off the market, they have guaranteed their cronies in the oil bidniz, starting with their beloved Saudi masters, obscene and unprecedented profits.

[Imagevision]

24. I believe many americans think we're fighting a war on terrorism in Iraq

or that you know, Saddam was a bad guy and all that rot...

Fact, Bush fires or accepts resignations for anyone who disagree's with him or gets in the way of this war, and he's doing it while claiming he's protecting you & me while exxon goes bullsh*t with their gas prices which are expected to top $4.00= by summer's end.

[Hamlette]

25. it was politics,

War presidents are "popular" presidents and history only remembers the war presidents.

I think Bush bought into the theory that the war would be easy and cheap. Like when his daddy fought Iraq...in and out in a few weeks....approval ratings in the 90s.

Then he could show that he had "solved" the war on terror where the dems were too chicken to do anything about the problems in the ME.

It was all part of the republican "revolution" to become the "permanent" majority party (nee: take over the country).

I think the smarter minds in the GOP realize the GOP deal with the religious right was a deal with the devil and the party will have to break ranks with the religious nut cases eventually (as the religious right gets nuttier and nuttier. They are going to demand the GOP outlaw abortion and then birth control? sort of sounds like it to me). So how will the party appeal to voters? The way they did before Bush sold the party to Jerry Falwell: defense/fear. They need a new cold war and a win against the ME would have been a great campaign slogan. Or at least showing they were standing up to the awful communists...err...I mean terrorists. Same war/fear, different year.

It's all politics for Bush and Rove. Iraq is NO different.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

27. I agree, I think domestic politics was one of the biggest, if not THE

biggest reason.

Remember what was happening at the time the Iraq WMD propaganda drumbeat began (and it started almost overnight). Crap economy. Corporate scandals like Enron and Adelphia every day. Shrub was on a fast ticket to one term palookaville before he and shrub hit on the idea to have a war.

The fact that there were a number of rabid ideologue "true believers" like Wolfowitz in his cabinet at the time was helpful, to let them plan and drive the thing.

[Poiuyt]

34. I agree. For Bush it was political power.

You just have to look at what he told his biographer in 1999:

“He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999,” said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. “It was on his mind. He said to me: ‘One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.’ And he said, ‘My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.’ He said, ‘If I have a chance to invade….if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency.”

http://www.gnn.tv/articles/article.php?id=761

I think Cheney wanted to invade for the oil and Mid East domination, but for Bush, it was to become more powerful than his father.

[Imagevision]

42. Obviously it's a mistake being there - why did we go to begin with

The Bush administration knowingly deceived the american people, that's a given but is this only a defense contractor, money thing or does the government see taking over the middle east? There was an urgency that Bushco invade Iraq, do a regime change, hell, even Powell went along with it...

[RufusEarl]

26. Saddam had plans to sell Iraqi oil via Euros instead,

of greenbacks. Well this country couldn't have that, so we bombed them back to the stone age.

Yea, it's Oil Bourse. Same thing Iran is planning, we'll see if this band of fools in this admin can make diplomacy work.

[Blue_Tires]

28. combination of factors

1. the oil
2. permanent militry force in the ME (which no doubt makes israel feel more comfortable)
3. profits: War has ALWAYS been very profitable to corporations above and below ground that know how to exploit situations to their own ends...
4. whipping up nationalistic furor...

[pretzel4gore]

29. pigmedia airtime needed filling

if we never invaded iraq, the news would have had time to mull over everything that's happened since the clinton impeachment effort, whitewater and soon....imagine an honest network look at 911, at wtc #7, at the 'lone gunman' show the april before the wtc disaster, or the gopig mob in florida, or the fact vast numbers of voters who thought junior bush was his old man etc. imagine if the Arkansaw project was brought to the nation's att'n, or vigilant guardian, or the Plunge Protection Team? ...No, the entire bush phenonomenon is a media operation, and it's in the media where the battle was being lost, even before geebushjr became a national figure
we need a free press, like junkies needs a fix!

[ljm2002]

30. Strategic presence...

...among other things. All of the usual things: oil; oil money in dollars not Euros; Saddam was getting tiresome; they had to have a bad guy to capture, in place of Osama, whose family they had promised they would not run him down and kill him like a dog (okay I made that part up, but it *could* be true); Bush needed a war to bolster his popularity (hey, it worked for Poppy); he needed to be seen making strategic moves on the world stage "in response to 9/11" (knowing Americans will believe what their government tells them about why it is doing things -- especially when they can feel good about striking back for 9/11).

For this Administration, Iraq presented a big upside possibility, what with all that oil and its strategic location. A bonus is that you can transform their society and therefore the whole region (the PNAC vision). So from their point of view, where's the downside?

But it is not working as planned.

We're seeing the downside.

What price glory.

[Vidar]

31. By cutting off & controlling future output of Iraq's oil, we drive the

price of oil up. Worked beautifully; Exxon & co. are pleased.

[karlrschneider]

32. Short answer: PNAC - long answer:

PNAC

[Glimmer of Hope]

38. It is part of the PNAC plan. Iraq is just the beginning.

[walkon]

33. Oil = World domination

Oil.

[WhiteTara]

35. as an end timer, he wants to see the

Apocalypse. I just read this article and it answers all your questions and more.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x62063
EXPOSÉ: THE “CHRISTIAN” MAFIA

Where Those Who Now Run the U.S. Government Came From and Where They Are Taking Us
By Wayne Madsen
Part I
After several months of in-depth research and, at first, seemingly unrelated conversations with former high-level intelligence officials, lawyers, politicians, religious figures, other investigative journalists, and researchers, I can now report on a criminal conspiracy so vast and monstrous it defies imagination. Using “Christian” groups as tax-exempt and cleverly camouflaged covers, wealthy right-wing businessmen and “clergy” have now assumed firm control over the biggest prize of all – the government of the United States of America. First, some housekeeping is in order. My use of the term “Christian” is merely to clearly identify the criminal conspirators who have chosen to misuse their self-avowed devotion to Jesus Christ to advance a very un-Christian agenda. The term “Christian Mafia” is what several Washington politicians have termed the major conspirators and it is not intended to debase Christians or infer that they are criminals . I will also use the term Nazi – not for shock value – but to properly tag the political affiliations of the early founders of the so-called “Christian” power cult called the Fellowship. The most important element of this story is that a destructive religious movement has now achieved almost total control over the machinery of government of the United States – its executive, its legislature, several state governments, and soon, the federal judiciary, including the U.S. Supreme Court.



The United States has experienced religious and cult hucksters throughout its history, from Cotton Mather and his Salem witch burners to Billy Sunday, Father Charles Coughlin, Charles Manson, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Marshall Applewhite, and others. But none have ever achieved the kind of power now possessed by a powerful and secretive group of conservative politicians and wealthy businessmen in the United States and abroad who are known among their adherents and friends as The Fellowship or The Family. The Fellowship and its predecessor organizations have used Jesus in the same way that McDonald’s uses golden arches and Coca Cola uses its stylized script lettering. Jesus is a logo and a slogan for the Fellowship. Jesus is used to justify the Fellowship’s access to the highest levels of government and business in the same way Santa Claus entices children into department stores and malls during the Christmas shopping season.



When the Founders of our nation constitutionally separated Church and State, the idea of the Fellowship taking over the government would have been their worst nightmare. The Fellowship has been around under various names since 1935. Its stealth existence has been perpetuated by its organization into small cells, a pyramid organization of “correspondents,” “associates,” “friends,” “members,” and “core members,” tax-exempt status for its foundations, and its protection by the highest echelons of the our own government and those abroad.
snip
Journalist, columnist, and television commentator Bill Moyers recently wrote that “for the first time in our history, ideology and theology hold a monopoly of power in Washington.” Ever since Abraham Vereide, a misguided immigrant to this country who brought very un-American ideas of Nazism and Fascism with him in his steamer trunk, the so-called “Christian” Right has long waited to take the biggest prize of all – the White House. Moyers correctly sees the Dominionists or “End Timers” as being behind the invasion of Iraq. He cites the Book of Revelation that states, “four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates will be released to slay the third part of man.” Such words may have their place in Sunday School and in church halls but using such thinking to launch wars of convenience or religious prophecy have no place in our federal and democratic republic. Moyers also rightly sees fundamentalist thought behind Bush’s “faith-based initiatives” and the rolling back of environmental regulations.



Hundreds of millions of people around the world no longer feel the United States is a country that can be trusted. They feel the people who run the affairs of state are out of control and dangerous. Considering the hold the Fellowship and their like-minded ilk have on the United States (and some of its allies) they are correct in their fears.
direct link to article
http://www.insider-magazine.com/ChristianMafia.htm
:scared: this is so big and has its tenacles in every facet of our lives.

[RufusEarl]

50. I read this article it was a long read,

but well worth the time. It introduced me to some different players that i had not heard of before, that alone peaked my intellectual curiosity.

Thanks for sharing, i'll pass it along!

[cassiepriam]

36. Bush also wanted it for ego reasons, he liked the idea of being a

"war president." This is to compensate for his own deep sense of inadequacy and failure.

[Rocknrule]

37. Because he has a small penis

Also, because he has a craving for war that even Return to Castle Wolfenstein can't satisfy

[Individualist]

39. PNAC

You'll find the answers you want here: www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=939775

[Imagevision]

41. Bush said he'll "stay the course" - how many trillions does this mean??

Bush will sacrifice whatever amount of US. human lives, kill unknown numbers of Iraqi civilians and will spend whatever it takes, also recently has stated that future Presidents will determine when and if we will ever pull out of Iraq. --> Twisted logic??

Spend whatever, sacrfice whatever to bring democracy to the middle east so americans will be slapped in the face even more at the gas pumps?? --> twisted logic indeed...

[DELUSIONAL]

43. He wanted to be a war Prez -- he didn't care where the war was

and he really thought that Iraq would be a cake walk. He is a mean bully -- and bullies always pick on the weakest.

Now why does he want to attack Iran -- Iran is NOT weak.

[Imagevision]

44. I disagree, Bush certainly cared about where the war went after afganistan

Don't think that if Iraq had say...the largest peanut farms on the planet we would have gone there.

[LynnTheDem]

47. " ‘One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a

commander-in-chief.’

"If I have a chance to invade….if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency."


300,000 dead Iraqis.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11508.htm

2376 dead Americans.
http://icasualties.org/oif/

For a politician's political gain.

[Imagevision]

49. BUSH:"I’m going to get everything passed" - only if before November

Bush this week adamant in keeping permanent tax cuts for the rich, all Bush can do is take advantage of favoring the wealthy-big-biz because he'll be leashed after the elections, furthermore will be unable to stop new hearings and investigations brought on by the new house & senate.

[bklyncowgirl]

51. Different strokes for different folks. Bush, Cheny & Rumsfeld.

Bush:
a. Desire to be seen as a greater president & war leader than his dad.
b. Desire to increase power of the executive branch
c. Desire to enrich his supporters.

Cheney:
a. PNAC--establish U.S. dominance throughout Middle East.
b. Desire to increase power of the executive branch
c. Desire to enrich his supporters and himself--Halliburton.

Rumsfeld:
a. PNAC--establish U.S. dominance throughout Middle East.
b. Desire to test his military theories in action.
c. Desire to increase power of executive branch and the Pentagon.