Sopranos getting political! Must see episode!

[Catamount]

I love the way Tony's working on his karma...despite of himself!
This season reminds me of 'Six Feet Under' - there seem to be no more restraints in the final season!

[VolcanoJen]

1. I was pretty disappointed to learn...

... that Carmella voted for Bush, though.

[jeff30997]

2. We'll take care of her.

[tcfrogs]

3. Fits her character

And, it's just a TV show. :)

[pepperbear]

41. Yeah, I had 'em pegged as Republicans from the get go...

REMEMBER, THESE ARE MEN WHO HAD A PROBLEM WITH HETERO ORAL SEX A couple of seasons back. They are also portrayed as racist and ignorant.

[stanwyck]

42. She's the consumate Republican blonde

remember when she had her "crisis" about whether to stay with Tony, knowing how he makes the moola that keeps her in gold jewelry and Porshes? She struggled for a while. But, then, made her peace with her husband killing people for a living. Just like an Enron or Halliburton CEO wife who equivocates all the dirty deals by telling herself it's OK...it's just "business." And, by golly, she deserves her bling!
Meanwhile, she's holier than thou....very "famiy" oriented and involved in the church.
Yeah. Carmella voted for Bush. Perfect fit.

[NYCGirl]

45. I think she realized she couldn't get a divorce. What attorney would ever

take her case without worrying about his life?

[RagingInMiami]

4. I haven't watched it in years

But that is surprising. Did Tony vote?

[tcfrogs]

5. They don't even pay taxes

Why would they vote? :)

[RagingInMiami]

6. Are they illegal?

:sarcasm:

[tcfrogs]

7. LOL

Good observation.

[sandnsea]

8. They transformed the characters

Carmella got more and more anal and judgmental, the more she accepted being a mob wife, the more right wing she got. The searching for truth in religion during the first couple of seasons has been replaced with complete adherance to Catholic dogma. So she's become a social AND economic conservative, rather bitchy actually.

I kind of like the way they went with the show. They're classic bushbots really. Racist, mysoginist, anti-tax, pro-gun, bullies. Who else would they vote for? But they still manage to work in some political commentary, although the thing on the recent show was way too scripted. There's also a situation with a gay boss, that's unfolding in a much more realistic way than to just pop a scene in for obvious political purposes. I don't like when television programming overtly manipulates me that way.

Anyway...

[newswolf56]

11. Actually the Mob is anti-gun: it's their manipulation of the permit system

inflicted on East-Coast states by you anti-gunners -- manipulation via bribery and influence-peddling -- that enables the Mob to stay armed. You'd be amazed at the number of Mafiosi who have New York City, New Jersey or Massachusetts concealed-carry permits: one of the dark secrets of gun control. Sure when they finally get busted they (technically) lose their permits, but until then they can carry legally, and the rest of us -- law-abiding citizens -- have no defense against them. Being one of those legal firearms owners you so thoroughly despise -- though anything but the "classic bushbot" your bigoted description accuses me of being -- the infinitely oppressive gun laws (which are enforced with truly vicious socioeconomic and racial discrimination) were among major factors that drove me out of the Northeast.

[sandnsea]

12. Whoa, where'd that come from???

Are you saying you're a mob guy??? Where'd I say a gun owner equated to a bigoted Bushbot? :shrug:

And you're against concealed-carry? Funny, since so many NRA types see conceal-carry as a huge victory for gun rights. Hard to keep up with the ever-changing rationalizations.

I thought criminals would just get illegal guns, that's what the NRA always said.

(I don't despise gun owners and you won't be able to find one post where I say that. I support responsible gun ownership and necessary regulation.)

[newswolf56]

13. Your very own words:

They're classic bushbots really. Racist, mysoginist, anti-tax, pro-gun, bullies.

And no, I'm not a Mob guy; quite the opposite: a former investigative reporter who worked in NYC and Jersey and now lives "way out West."

What the NRA supports is shall-issue concealed carry: that is, that permits be issued to any eligible person who applies. Permits in NJ, Mass, NYC etc. are issued only at police discretion, meaning all you gotta do is bribe the cops (which happens constantly). Note for example the recent NYPD scandal of cops moonlighting for the Mob as hit men.

The Sopranos, by the way, contains a lot of truth -- especially the casual, open relationship between mobsters and politicians (especially flagrant in Jersey, where there are at least 19 bodies buried in the Jersey Turnpike, but true throughout the rest of the Northeast as well). True elsewhere too: for a picture of reality read William Chambliss' On The Take; the 1970s edition was about the Mob in Seattle and sent him into hiding for many years; the current (1998) edition looks at corruption across the nation.

Back to the notion of "bushbots" -- if I read your meaning wrong I apologize. But when you make a sweeping statement such as you did, you afflict every firearms owner in the U.S. with the "bushbot" toxin.

[sandnsea]

14. Wow

So that consequently means ALL gun owners are racist, mysoginist, anti-tax bullies???

That was very clearly a total picture of a person. I doubt anybody who is anti-tax would come along and yell at me for calling them a mysoginist based on that post.

I'm not going to base my opinion of what laws should be on whether criminals break the law anyway. Makes no sense.

The gun activists have supported both kinds of conceal carry laws, a few make a huge fuss over shall issue, but not most. Again, most gun owners I know support police regulated conceal-carry, it's a sensible gun law to make sure those who are carrying concealed weapons are competent, known to authorities, and not nuts.

You don't owe me an apology for unintentionally misinterpreting something I said, you do owe me an apology for completely making something up, that I "despise" gun owners because that's just not true. I despise NRA talking points, but that's not the same thing as despising gun owners. In fact, that's just another right wing tactic, make me out to be some kind of monster by using denigrating terms towards me and putting words in my mouth that I never used.

[newswolf56]

15. No, it means you listed "pro-gun" in a litany of negative qualities...

that define "bushbots," thereby implying (A) that "pro-gun" is a negative quality under any circumstances and (B) that it is a defining characteristic of "bushbots." Thus as a firearms owner I was insulted by you twice -- and a third time when you called me a liar after I took you to task for your slanders.

I am truly sorry you are unable to see my point.

By the way, every firearms owner I know is a Leftist like myself and -- again like myself -- is deeply offended whenever someone lists firearms ownership as a negative quality. Nor do I know a single gun-owning man or woman -- not even one -- who would give the police control over issuance of concealed-carry permits. Indeed such opposition (and the NRA's opposition) is founded on precisely the facts I summarized above: the dangers of bribery and discrimination.

And just for the record, I have been a firearms owner nearly all the 66 years of my life: a military-qualified expert with rifle and pistol, in my long ago youth a competitive shooter and -- yes -- an NRA member. But also jailed as a Civil Rights Activist in the South (1963) and a (pre-Vietnam) military veteran active in anti-Vietnam War protests (1969-1973), not to mention a Back-to-the-Land Movement communard, a member of the alternative press and -- yes -- an ACLU member too. The point of which is simply don't leap to nasty generalizations: they're probably wrong.

Have a good night at your keyboard; I have better things to do than continue this quibble.

[sandnsea]

17. I described a Bushbot

A classic Bushbot. Being pro-gun is part of that. Too bad if you don't like it, it's still true.

And I still haven't said I despise gun owners, so you still made that up. But now you're playing victim by saying I called you a liar, and won't apologize to me when you're the one that was doing the slandering. Another classic right wing tactic.

I really don't care how old you are or what your "lefty cred" is. I didn't leap to any conclusions, I said you're acting just like the right winger NRA nuts do, and you are. Too bad if you don't like that fact either, but it's also true. Does that mean you ARE a right wing nut? No. It means you're acting like one with your NRA blather.

And you aren't the only one with better things to do.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. Waaaw Waaaw Waaaw

Fucking Debbie Downer, man.

Take the cork out.

[confludemocrat]

40. sounds like an Artie Lange "WAAH WAAH" "I was driven out of the NE by

oppressive gun laws, WAAAAAH!

[LouisianaLiberal]

44. Ma gavta la nata

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. Si, certo

I opted for the translation.

;-)

[stanwyck]

47. You're right about Carmella

she has changed. I've watched from the start. She used to struggle with her role as a mob wife. She was more introspective and concerned about her personal ethics, her family's future, and the well-being of other people.
Now, she's completely self-absorbed. She's out to get hers. Money is her real god. And she doesn't care how the money comes her way -- blood stains are no problem.
One of my favorite Carmella scenes is when she ever so politely strong-arms a dean at a college into admitting Meadow. She took her a "ricotta pie". And her velvety social graces didn't hide the implied threat.
She used to hide from who she was -- and be skittish and a little ashamed when around people outside the "family." Now, she's using her background to full advantage. And expecting Tony to pay up to keep her the loyal wife.

[Totally Committed]

23. You would want this materialistic, amoral, judgemental

Mob-Boss's wife portrayed as a Democrat?

This season shows that water seeks its own level.... The Bush "Mob" attracts the other "Mob" through mutual admiration of despicable methods and enrichment of the rich, as well as intolerance of alternate lifestyles. Tony, himself, last night said he was "a strict Catholic", so he agreed with Rick Santorum about tolerance of gays leading to sex with dogs, or something to that effect. I saw his confessed alignment with both these things as a slam to them.

It was an insult to the Republican Party, the Bushies and the Catholic Church to have these characters saying they support them. I believe it was an intentional statement of disrespect for all three entities by the producers of the show, in fact. Here were these murdering, amoral, scums (as much as we've come to love the show, that's what they are...) saying these three things share their values. Not a compliment to any of them, for sure.

Another thing to think about: If Carmella had said she voted for Kerry, it would have been all over the news this morning. The RW would have made sure it was. Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity.... all the RW scums would have been talking it up today. Listen for the silence now that the Sopranos are RW-ers who support Bush.

TC

[GalleryGod]

27. You're Right, TC !! Carmella votes for Bush..**crickets***

[Nickster]

36. You got that right. I thought the same thing when my wife pointed out Carm

voted for Bush, "How could she..." I said, You really want our side represented by characters like this??

[Thirtieschild]

43. Right on, TC

I all but whooped when Carmella said there must be some reason the feds took the Arab kid and then added that she voted for Bush. She is a perfect example of the Bush voter, and I hope everyone saw her vote for what it was.

[stanwyck]

52. Now, every time I see one of the Republican blondes

on TV...I'll think of Carmella. She's the perfect archetype for her conservative values sisters who don't care where or how they get their blood money. It's all about the money. They marry for it. They squash other people for it. They lie. They abuse. Whatever it takes.
I think the show meant Carmella as an indictment of her lifestyle. A self-absorbed Lady McBeth void of empathy. But quick with the platitudes of home and hearth and the ricotta pie.

[helderheid]

48. but her daughter's response was perfect: "You don't relate to black people

hanging onto logs for their lives" or something close to it

[libodem]

9. I love the show

and just watched the last 5 seasons on dvd. I watched season 4 with some friends and was hooked. I've watched it somewhat out of order but am fascinated with the family, none the less. I can't wait for season 6 to come out.

[Catamount]

50. I'm not sure they'll have one, I think this is the final season!

If you have Comcast--you can see any shows you missed in "On Demand", they usually show the current season and when it's over they go back to earlier seasons.

[elare]

55. It's the 2nd last season

The final season is supposed to start airing in January 2007.

[Catamount]

61. Thanks-I stand corrected and I'm glad it goes on a little longer!

:hi:

[newswolf56]

10. In the real world the Mob is fanatically conservative. It helped the...

fascists in Italy exterminate the Communists, then worked for the U.S. Government exterminating the Communists who had fought so bravely in the Italian underground.

[Carni]

32. YEP! They are indeed normally conservatives!

I cannot for the life of me understand why some people here are offended that the character of Carmella voted for bush--or that the character of Tony agrees with Santorum!

HELLO? It's a show about a bunch of thugs who kill long time friends and loved ones at the drop of a dime!

They make their money illegally just like bushit why wouldn't they align their values with him? LOL

Granted, I love the show... but I don't strive to be like the Sopranos and I wouldn't want to hang out with people like them under any circumstances.

I think the political aligning of Tony and Carmella with this bushit GOP is a brilliant commentary on the part of the writers!

[Catamount]

57. Yes, thats what I thought....

I especially enjoyed the episode where the 'Intelligent Design' guy tried to persuade Tony that dinosaurs were just 6000 years old!
Also that they discuss current issues at all!

[Carni]

58. I LOVED the episode where they were all pissed off at the Indians

For boycotting Columbus day lol--they threatened to out the Native American dude in the 70's advertisement as being an Italian! LOL

[B Calm]

16. Sopranos remind me too much of the Bush family, can't watch it..

[0007]

18. I can't watch this glorified rotten shit that reminds me of the

gangsters that are in charge of this country. Everything from the way they talk, cheat, lie, and steal and murder, is disgusting.

Yet John Q. Public eats this stuff up.

[trumad]

19. Then call me John Q. Public

It's a TV show people....

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Jesus, you'd think...

Ay yay yay, trumad. Finally, someone said it:

It's a TV show people....

Thank you!

[Totally Committed]

26. But last night it was a shot at all those holier than thou values voters!

These murderous, criminal, money-grubbing, homophobic a**holes were agreeing with them and their "values" every chance they got last night. Tony, in his way, even mis-pronounced "Santorum" as "Sanctamonium". Nah, last night was a planned offense against the Republicans, the Bushies, the values voters, and religion. Whether you agree with their attack on those targets or not, last night's show was an intentional insult to each of those things.

It's not only a tv show, it's a vehicle for the opinions of the producers and their exercize of the First Amendment while we still have it.

TC

[confludemocrat]

38. only the Soprano gang can make Vito look like a persecuted waif

You know where this is going though, he will work in an antique store in NH, find the gay frycook as a boyfriend and then be rubbed out

[Carni]

34. I think it's one of the most insightful shows on television

The irony is perfect -- and as far as I am concerned they have captured what has become the "American Way" over the last 5 years.

I think some of the people who hate the show are shooting the messenger.

[Catamount]

62. Me too!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

22. I found the last exchange between Tony's daughter and her boyfriend

interesting. She was upset because of the erosion of rights in the country and he pointed out how her father and his cohorts mete out their own "justice" (obviously giving their "hits" no rights whatsoever).

[obreaslan]

24. Senator SANITORIUM!!! LOL!!

I love it. :rofl:

I like how they connect organized crime with Republicanism. Very funny.

[bdamomma]

25. I love it

the Sopranos getting very vocal on the practice/policies of this regime.

[noonwitch]

28. It was a good episode overall

It doesn't surprise me that Carmela would vote for Bush-she's probably against abortion and her character is supposed to be one of those "security moms". She's not that sympathetic of a character, in my view. She knows what makes driving that Porsche possible and she drives it anyways. I always thought the episode where the conservative jewish therapist urged her to leave Tony and refused to take her blood money was one of the best.

It's good to see Tony making progress on developing some morals. His unwillingness to kill a crony because he's gay shows that he is changing, which will not bode well for his business in the long run. I hope Leo stays in New Hampshire and starts a new life for himself there, in the antiques business. He can't ever go back to Jersey now.


I wonder if Christopher's arab friends are terrorists and this is how the government will ultimately take them all down, or at least, take down Christopher. My guess is that agent whatshername would love to avenge Adrianna's death. She seemed to actually care about her when they were using her as a snitch.

[AzDar]

29. Last night's episode was amazing...Meadow said 'Bush is just using

9/11 to slowly erode your civil rights, don't you KNOW that?'(paraphrasing)
I hope Vito starts a new life for himself in New Hampshire; "Live Free Or Die", indeed.
Hubby and I have become such fans we recently bought all the previous seasons on DVD..even in Season 1, Carmella's hypocrisy is
hilarious. She criticizes Clinton for his 'Lewinsky',all the while conveniently overlooking the fact that her husband is banging everything that moves. Love it.

[Atman]

31. I think that whole segment was totally forced and out of place

It wasn't needed, and they tried to force some plot elements around it. It just didn't ring true for me at all. Christopher's sudden knowledge about Islam and Al Q, also, just wasn't believable. He wants to go kill all the freakin' fags, but he's concerned with the stereotypes about Muslims? Pul-leeze.

I'm all in favor of Bush-bashing whereever it can do some good, but I just thought the anti-Bush references sounded silly and contrived.

[confludemocrat]

35. Christopher has always had an "enlightened side" check back on old shows

like his "green" period and his "new age" stuff for awhile. He has had anti-racist stuff in the shows he wrote or directed.That's what makes the show what it is: the best television series ever.

[Atman]

37. Sopranos and Big Love are the only "must watch" shows on teevee

I could even stand to miss Big Love, since it's available the next morning on On Demand, but Sopranos...I miss Sopranos and I feel like I've missed dinner and bathing...it really is fantastic television! Maybe you're right about Christopher. But still, it seemed like the Bush-bashing in general was crow-barred into the script.

[confludemocrat]

39. Yes, it seems like it was crowbarred inbut producers have been champing at

the bit, I guess to get in some licks, which I, in the final analysis can't blame them for. "They're allowed" in my book.

[rinsd]

59. It was a little ham handed, but not too bad.

I just hope they don't turn Meadow into Lisa Simpson, her emaciated appearance has been jarring enough.

[mtnsnake]

30. Tony's daughter dropped the hammer on Bush. What Tony & his wife said

were just little tidbits of token balance, that pale in comparison to what Tony's daughter said.

Tony is the figurative Archie Bunker, his wife is not the brightest bulb on the planet, and the daughter is portrayed as the one with brains. What she said about Bush is what the producers of the show wanted to highlight.

Great show last night. Way better than the last couple.

[confludemocrat]

33. don't forget Christophers one-punch KO of creationism a couple shows back

if the dinosaurs existed along with adam and eve no way there would have been a real garden of eden, 'cause they'd have been runnin' their asses off in terror to survive

[tallahasseedem]

49. The whole time...

I kept thinking how hard it must have been for Edie Falco to deliver that line since she hates Bush. Poor thing.

[stanwyck]

51. I was thinking the same. And the actor who plays

Christopher is very liberal, also. And very outspoken.
Credit to Edie Falco that she could put Carmella's "I voted for Bush" over so realistically.
I would have gagged.

[nonconformist]

53. Exactly what I was thinking! nt

[nonconformist]

54. I LOVE The Sopranos.

Best show on TV, possibly ever.

I was not one bit surprised when Carmela said she voted for Bush - in previous seasons, she's eluded to as much. She's a conservative Catholic and famously hypocritical - she's even been called out by Tony on her hypocrisy before.

I've got a feeling that the mob - both fictional and otherwise - are none too happy about this illegal wiretapping business, however!

[MrSlayer]

56. It's been political all year.

Taking on health care, the environment, terrorism and now last night's episode highlighting civil liberties and homosexuality. It's a good show but overrated, some of the episodes have been really bad.

[AllieB]

60. I thought Meadow's comment on corporate crime was a good slam

against Bush and his white collar criminals. She is an intern in a law firm and one of the cases she is working on is a finacial wizard who bilked people out of tens of milions of dollars. She said that this person is treated with respect while Johnny Sack is humiliated at his daughter's wedding. The Enron fiasco is probably responsible for more deaths and ruined lives than a New Jersey mob boss.