my husband and i are giving serious consideration to leaving

[catmother]

the country. we're tired of paying taxes that go into fighting an illegal war, into politician's and their cronies pockets. we're tired of the high cost of health care. we're tired of all the outsourcing and the poor level of education. i never thought that i would leave my beloved phoenix, but we are looking very closely at costa rica. my husband could retire now, but he's only 58. he's eligible for a pension, but we would like to wait until he's 62 and eligible for social security. i'm already collecting.

we don't see a future here anymore in this once great country.:cry:

[Ezlivin]

1. First Rule of the Flight Club

Don't tell anyone where you are going. Once enough Americans have relocated elsewhere, this government will simply annex that country and add a star to the flag.

[catmother]

4. there are already are many americans there. actually there is a

member of the DU who relocated there.

[xultar]

37. I'm with ya. I'm thinking again of seriously leaving. I'm just kinda

hurt and scared that I have to leave. I don't want to leave my family yet I can't bare to watch this craziness.

My mom keeps saying that things are happening for a reason. I presume it is something she hears in church. I can't say I completely disagree but why must all the suffering of innocents occur?

[Neil Lisst]

138. punch her hard and say "that happened because you believe that"

It's a stupid concept that religious people like to use, as if it brings meaning to horror.

[Toucano]

155. If you do, you have to stop referring to people from the U.S. as

Americans

People actually do resent it because they are Americans, too.

[catmother]

162. i've been told that. north, central and south america are all

americans.

[pitohui]

175. in costa rica and panama they do not resent this

in mexico it is an issue

in costa rica and panama they just think you are being silly and p-c if you try to avoid calling yourself an american

[Toucano]

177. I can't speak for Panama,

but I've witnessed three "incidents" in the last month in CR.

Maybe it depends on what circles you move in.

[pitohui]

184. ok it may be

v. little time spent in costa rica and they all seemed to be pretty relaxed -- and to be honest most of them seemed to be canadians!

in panama they just laugh at you if you try to avoid saying you're an americana

[catmother]

187. i just realized that you live in costa rica. have you always lived

there?

[Toucano]

192. No. I'm neo-tico.

I left the U.S. in 2005 for all the same reasons you're dealing with now and probably a few more besides. I made my first contact with the man I would buy our property from on the afternoon of Kerry's concession and signed the final papers that made me a Costa Rican tax payer exactly one year later.

It was a 100% right decision for me, but it isn't right for everyone. I would really advise spending at least a month before you make a final decision. Many people who come for vacations, even long vacations, take back some misconceptions.

One I see repeated a lot in this thread is that Costa Rica's medical services are excellent. I'd say they're good to very good, but it can depend on where you are. A friend was in the hospital last month, and we had to take him a pillow because the hospital didn't have any. That's a minor thing, of course, and easily fixed, but things like that might be a suprise to people.

There are procedures, especially very advanced procedures, that aren't available here along with some drugs that you simply can't get. Normally, there's a close substitute that is available. But as a system, it does work very well for most people unlike the non-system in the U.S. that works very well for a few people and not at all for many, many people.

In many parts of the country, the roads are absolutely awful. A lot of effort is being made to fix them, but it will take some time to overcome the years of misappropriated funding. I keep reminding people how that happens in the U.S. all the time. Being from Ohio where the current government is an all out criminal enterprise, I know a thing or two about that.

A book that really helped me is "Living Abroad in Costa Rica". http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1566916526/sr=8-1/qid=1145348555/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-7204037-0095143?%5Fencoding=UTF8 I'm sure there are a lot of other good books too, but this one is particularly nice because it includes interviews with people who have done it. They are very candid not just about what they love, but about what challenges they've faced too.

The best newspaper is La Nacion http://www.nacion.com

Please feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions that I might help with. I usually check in once a day.

[pitohui]

174. it's already a star on the canada flag

judging from all the french-canadians who own little "resorts" in costa rica!

[NMDemDist2]

2. if I had your equity

i'd be already gone........


:hug:

[catmother]

8. i guess you're talking about my house. yes we do have enough

money to leave now, but it's going to take time and planning. :hi:

[cally]

3. I think you have to continue paying US taxes unless

you give up citizenship. I don't think that's very easy to do legally.

[ourbluenation]

10. correct - and you still get to vote, unless you give up citizenship.

[catmother]

12. that is something we will have to check out. do we pay taxes to

both countries? my sister lives in canada and doesn't pay US taxes, but i guess if the money is coming from here there will be a liability.

[BooScout]

45. The US has a Tax Treaty with most countries....

You are exempt from paying US taxes on the first 70,000 (or 80) USD of income earned abroad but you will have to pay taxes on that in the country in which you chose to reside. After the first 70,000 (or 80) USD earned the tax treaty kicks in and any taxes owed go to the US. If your money you are 'earning' is being paid out of the US like a retirement fund, it's considered US income and will be taxed in the States, I think you may still have to report it in your residence country though.

[SmokingJacket]

41. That can't be true.

Unless you still earn money in the US -- they can't tax you for money you make in another country.

I have relatives who are non-citizens with green cards -- they certainly don't pay taxes in their home countries.

ON EDIT: I'm wrong! You would still owe taxes if you made more than $80K:

http://www.globaltaxhelp.com/taxbasics.htm

That seems crazy to me. I'm going to look up the rules for my relatives' home country and see if they're tax dodgers or what...

ON EDIT AGAIN: Seems that resident aliens have to pay US taxes, but so do expats! Rude! It's enough to make you renounce citizenship!

[mattclearing]

63. The State Department doesn't recognize renunciation.

The United States government reserves the right to tax and extradite its citizenry, even if they have renounced their citizenship. For that reason, renunciation is more or less impossible.

[catmother]

79. i never said i was going to renounce my citizenship.

[SmokingJacket]

81. No, that was me!

:hi:

And actually I'm not. I have too many friends and family here -- a draft would probably be the one thing to drive me out of this country... would have to save my boys....

[catmother]

85. i don't blame you. i remember viet nam. many of our young

men went to canada.

[mattclearing]

212. I wasn't talking to you. n/t

[Toucano]

167. It's not impossible at all.

http://foia.state.gov/masterdocs/07fam/07m1250.pdf

"A formal oath of renunciation must be taken personally in the presence of a duly
commissioned diplomatic or consular officer. It may not be taken before a Foreign Service
national employee, consular agent, foreign notary, or any other person. A U.S. diplomatic
or consular officer assigned to Washington, the U.S. Mission to the United Nations, or any
other assignment in the United States may not administer an oath of renunciation."

It's a hassle, but no more than getting a drivers license is now if you've had your purse stolen.

[mattclearing]

211. Yeah, but the State Department doesn't recognize it.

My point is that you can renounce, but the U.S. Government reserves the right to tax/prosecute you, so renunciation doesn't really have any teeth. As far as the U.S. is concerned, you lose all rights, but the state forfeits none.

E. TAX & MILITARY OBLIGATIONS /NO ESCAPE FROM PROSECUTION

Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information). In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship will not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

[Toucano]

157. Two corrections.

The first $85,000 is not subject to income tax.

Renouncing U.S. citizenship is easily done at any U.S. Embassy or consulates office. It's a written statement and a verbal renunciation.

[mattclearing]

5. Sounds like a plan.

Seriously, the social contract here has been broken. If you can get out, I encourage you to do so.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[katty]

90. sounds good, best of luck to you-haven't made any

hard plans yet-but my passport is ready and have friends/contacts in Dublin.

[Beelzebud]

6. I'll not be handing America to these fascists!

With that type of attitude there would never have been an America.

Leaving? Fuck that! Stay and fight! Stay and make a difference!

If every good person in America left, then we truely would be a shithole!

DON'T GIVE UP DAMMIT!!!!

To those that are thinking of leaving, or have left: DAMN YOU! You make it harder to fight these bastards...

[TayTay]

11. Stay and fight.

"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands now, deserves the thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated."

Thomas Paine.

The only way I'm leaving this fight is head-first in a box.

[Beelzebud]

13. Damn right!!! Great quote!

[marylanddem]

28. What a wonderful Thomas Paine quote - thanks!

[paparush]

94. Thom Paine was the man!! That guy got DEMOCRACY!

[tabasco]

15. It's a big world.

When you get a bit older, you start thinking about where you want to live for the residual.

There's nothing wrong with moving to another country.

The cost of living is much less in many places outside of corporate BushCo America.

The country bailed out on the people, not the other way around.

[catmother]

23. thank you. i was doing the math the other day. right now medicare

is up to over $88.00 a month and that doesn't cover everything. you need a supplemental policy which runs about another $100 a month. multiply that times 2 and add in how much medicare will be in 4 years and we'll be paying damn near $500 a month for health care.

costa rica has universal health care and a resident can buy into it for $450 a year. so $900 a year is a helluva a lot better than $6,000 a year and their medical care is rated better than ours.

that medicare amount is going to keep going up.

[SoCalDem]

51. Does that cover medicines and hospitals?

That's the thing that would scare me. My husband's diabetic, and it would suck to not have insurance cover the possibilities of his health..

I don;t think we could part with our pets to move abroad.. I guess we're stuck :(

[catmother]

56. it would be buying into their government health care system. i

think it covers all. there's also another policy you can buy -- sounds kinda like an HMO. i have to look into that one further.

[ladjf]

149. You should check this our thoroughly. Costa Rica has fairly

strict laws about who can migrate there. I'd be surprised to see that they would allow a foreigner to buy into their health system. Hope you are right though.

[Toucano]

156. Of course you can buy into the health system.

They're smart enough to not say no to more money.

Immigration reform is getting much more strict, though.

[catmother]

163. i've checked the laws and once i become a resident i can buy

into their health care system.

[ladjf]

199. Great! Glad to know that.

[Texasgal]

17. Good post!

I agree 100%

[earthside]

25. Not the Mexican Model?

You don't favor the Mexican model then? You know, if you are a poor Mexican, then you are encouraged to leave your native land and take your troubles elswhere (U.S.A.).

I suppose you are correct. If poor Mexicans were not seduced by the employers of cheap labor in this country, and urged by their own government to leave -- but stayed in Mexico and would "Stay and fight! Stay and make a difference!" -- then maybe Mexico, itself, would be a place worth living in.

[elehhhhna]

119. Uh, the Mexicans we know in Texas go to Mexico for surgery, etc.,

whenever possible.

[catmother]

121. i know a mexican guy who i've bought furniture from. he has a

little store and hand makes all his stuff. a few years ago he needed extensive dental work so he went back to mexico for 3 weeks to have it done.

[pitohui]

176. hell I'VE had work done in mexico

and i live in louisiana, not exactly on da border

[Adelante]

166. Medical care is excellent in Mexico

And very cheap.

[nickinSTL]

35. you know...it's easy to say that...

but some people feel that they are PERSONALLY in too much danger from the excesses of this Administration to stay.

I can't condemn anyone who leaves for doing so. I've considered it myself for personal reasons that make me and my fiancee (in my mind, at least) prime targets of abuse and discrimination under the government that is emerging under these fascists.

I won't leave lightly, but if I do, it's a choice I'll have to make.

Also, IMO, if we don't retake the House this year...there might not be anything left worth fighting for. The people are too scared/stupid to do anything, and the politicians of the party that SUPPOSEDLY is for the good of the PEOPLE are such corporatist cowards in the main, that they won't do $#!^.

[wtmusic]

88. Funny--"the people are too scared/stupid to do anything"

but you're leaving the country. Big help. Thanks for your commitment. :eyes:

[catmother]

92. i've been commited for 64 years. i don't know how old you are

but i was probably voting before you were born. so thanks for your sarcasm.

[BeTheChange]

110. Voting?

No offense here.. but are you serious?

Is that all it takes to be committed to fighting for this country? That's good to know. I can tell my generation that.. the ones who were raised in a la la land by boomers who pontificate about the glory days when they worked on Gerald Ford's campaign... the generation that gets to pay for this freaking utopian dream we have all be living about how nothing is hard, and screw sacrifice and blood and sweat and tears. What a brilliant awakening it has been.


Have fun in Costa Rica... wish I could join you, but it would be an excercise in futility. There is NOWHERE in the world anyone will be able to hide if the people of this country dont stand up and fight against what is happening.

[catmother]

123. well what the fuck do you think i'm doing on the DU? i belong

to moveon.org. i sign every petition, write letters, make phone calls to congressman, donate to democratic causes, etc. trying to make this a better place.

[Karenina]

125. I am appalled

at the disrepect and venom being spewed at Catmother by some of you yung'uns. Makes me REAL GLAD to already be elsewhere.

[catmother]

129. thank you Karenina.

:yourock:

[serryjw]

160. As your hubby if he would like a 2nd wife!

I'm ready too go in your suitcase!

[BeTheChange]

142. We are all struggling...

We would all like to get the hell out of here and move to somewhere else where we didn't have to look the monster that has become our government in the eye. We can all think up a million reasons to do so. Then we remember that we have been given a freedom that very few in the world have and that it comes at a price.

I did not "spew venom". I stated my opinion. I'm not going to pat someone on the back with syrupy sweet tact for leaving this country when the going gets tough for them while they talk about nips and tucks and building houses with maid's quarters. I'm not going to participate in rationalizing or applauding it. I never understand why people post these threads about how they want to leave the US. You do what you have to do for your reasons. Not mine. If you want to live like a king due to an exchange rate.. fan-fucking-tastic. If you would rather go take advantage of another country's healthcare while millions of my brothers and sisters have none and nobody to speak for them.. again, whoop - ti - freaking - do. But don't get upset if I don't sponge off your brow and give you a cookie.

Life is fucking hard and as Americans we have had it very easy. If you aren't ready to participate in what must happen to take back this country then, by all means, get the hell out of the way.... pretty please? ;)

[wtmusic]

144. Right. Fucking. On.

Had Tom Paine run for the Bahamas when King George started being a prick, we'd live in a different country, wouldn't we?

[mr blur]

145. Really?

"we have been given a freedom that very few in the world have"

Where the hell do you get these ridiculous "US Is The Best" ideas? "A freedom" to do what? Eat crap? Have a huge television? Delude yourself? Drive everywhere because you've forgotten how to walk? Have you ever been anyhere else in the world. Do you know what it's like anywhere else? Do you even have a passport?

I suspect that people are leaving your country because they need to get out before the bullshit reaches their heads.

[wtmusic]

146. 90% of the world would consider the "crap" you eat a gourmet meal

and a larger percentage will never own a car as nice as yours. You're sounding less like a world traveler than an elitist brat.

[BeTheChange]

150. Yes, really.

I forgot, America is solely about eating fast and having a big tv and car and deluding ourselves.

EVERY country has its problems. None are immune. Yes, Ive perfectly aware of what it is like in many part of the world. Have I been everywhere, no.. but I've been to every continent. Have you? Have you watched a woman get snatched up by her hair by her brother at a souk in Qatar because she dared to not wear an abaya? Or been terrified to board a bus in Israel because people like to blow themselves up on them? Have you had a child beg you for money in an alley in taormina, filthy with no shoes?

I have.


America is not perfect, but I am very glad to be here and to fight to make it better.

[BooScout]

193. Thank you Mr Blur!

I got so tired of the BS spewed by people like that, that it was a joy to land on British soil and civilised discourse. Psssssst, don't tell the ignorant that people protest things on a regular basis in the UK......let him think no one works over here and people don't give a damn. Ignorance is bliss for them don't ya know?

Cheers,

Boo (and my head never did explode, I got out in time :evilgrin: )

[Karenina]

148. Will you still need me? Will you still feed me?

WHEN I'M 64??

Catmother and I already know the answer to that. Medicare Plan D will take care of those unable to take care of themselves. No nasty pics or carefully kept statistics. Da gubmint is ALREADY getting the most vulnerable "out of the way."

What I really don't get is the thinly-veiled hostility. Catmother is NOT the enemy. She is NOT "in the way." Not everyone is a Granny D.

[catmother]

164. i sense some enjy on your part. because we've worked hard

and can afford to live well in another country, you don't like it. i'll still be an american. i will still vote and fight for the rights of others less fortunate. see my other posts regarding my sister who lives in canada since 1974. she writes and posts on DU. her name is NanceGreggs. check out her articles and tell me that she isn't helping this country even though she lives in canada and has the benefit of their social programs.

i've met others like you on these threads. you can't make it and your jealous of those who do.

on edit: my staying here is not going to give health care to those that you speak of.

[BeTheChange]

196. Heh..

Im jealous, eh? That is an easy thing to tell yourself when someone disagrees with you. They are jealous of your freedoms.

I dont want to "make" the life you have chosen and the associations and events I donate that surplus to are far more rewarding then living to a ripe old age in luxury with no wrinkles. I am grateful for what I have and dont need to spend the rest of my life pursing something "better". I have and will continue to "make" my own better.

Do what you have to do.. but this isnt Nazi Germany you are fleeing. You are not persecuted and nobody has tied your hands behind your back and prevented you from helping to make real change in this country. If you choose not to do that, fine. If you are tired from life and you need to get away from this struggle, fine. But dont frame it as if this country has made you a martyr with all you have done for it.

[catmother]

204. i am not a martyr. my husband and i have worked hard and

the country has been good to us. but this country has changed. if you bother to read my opening post you will see why we want to leave.

we certainly were not persecuted. we just feel the time might be right to make a change. you can stay and do whatever you want to but don't be so judgmental of people who feel differently than you do. no it's not nazi germany, so you can stay and do whatever you think is important and will make a change.

look at your statements. you alluded several times to my having plastic surgery. you also made reference to my buying a house with maid's quarters. so you've drawn your conclusions that i'm a woman of means with nothing else on my mind but how i look. you are very wrong. don't be so fast to make assumptions about people that you really don't know. as far as a house with maid's quarters i have searched through the listings and many of the houses have this. what i said was it would be perfect for my 83 year old mom. we have no intention of having a live-in maid and even if we did it doesn't mean we're bad people.

good luck to you.

[One_of_8]

207. Could you put any more words into the OP's mouth?

Edited because I see you got this information from further down in the thread, but at the point where this message resides on the thread, it sounds like information pulled out of the blue. However, so what if the OP has had and can afford "nips and tucks"? And the bit about maid's quarters: it appears she was saying they might find a house that has maid's quarters already in place, for use should a relative move in with them.

Do I wish I would be retiring on an income of $8,000 per month? You betcha! When I retire, it will be on far less than that. Which is yet another reason why I am considering moving to another country, while I still have 20 or so more years employment in me, in the hopes that I could face a halfway decent retirement.

I'm not going to pat someone on the back with syrupy sweet tact for leaving this country when the going gets tough for them while they talk about nips and tucks and building houses with maid's quarters. I'm not going to participate in rationalizing or applauding it. I never understand why people post these threads about how they want to leave the US. You do what you have to do for your reasons. Not mine. If you want to live like a king due to an exchange rate.. fan-fucking-tastic

I still don't know exactly what this means: "You do what you have to do for your own reasons. Not mine." Isn't that self-evident? Don't we all do what we have to do, "for our own reasons" not someone else's?

[BeTheChange]

209. Did you read the thread?

"what do you mean you can vouch for the cosmetic surgery? i've heard that it's good. i've had my share of nipping and tucking here so it will be nice to know that i don't have to fly back here for my cosmetic surgery."


Im not gonna waste my time pulling the rest of this up or on this thread. Ive said my peace. I dont regret it.

[One_of_8]

206. What makes you think voting

is the only thing the poster does to fight for democracy?
Is that all it takes to be committed to fighting for this country

That's rude and insulting. I'm disheartened by so many DUers who find it all too easy to put down other DUers for choices they are free to make. You can disagree without being an ass about it, you know.

As to the OP who is thinking of moving to Costa Rica - I can't say as I blame you. I am in my 40's and have an 8-year old son. I also have parents in their upper 70's, who are getting more frail in their health. I have been contemplating a move out of the country ever since Bushco stole the election (again) in 2004. It's not an easy decision to make. I certainly am not going to pass judgment on a personal decision made by anyone here on DU.

[nickinSTL]

137. you know, I don't like to resort to profanity...

but you're really f'ing pushing it.

You're being seriously disrespectful to other people whose situations you can't possibly understand.

I haven't given up, and I'll stay if I can, but when there's nothing left to fight for, I won't be a martyr, sorry.

[jukes]

169. wtmusic, i find your post offensive.

i fought in viet nam for this country

infantry w/ the 1st Air Cav. i have malaria attacks evry 3 months or so

i served 20 years in LE for this country.

I'VE PAID MY DUES!

this country is lost. if i cd leave, i'd be in venezuela training their militia.

tell us about fighting when you've been shot at, stabbed, and had schrapnel whizzing over your head. until then, you might want to show a little respect, or at least pick up a gun and actually FIGHT these bastards instead of being rude to old folks who'd like to live out there remaining years w/o fear.

"fight" is an easy word to say. not so easy to try to live through.

[wtmusic]

179. Does it really take one bad administration to "lose" this country?

Quite a few people hung around through the Harding and Hoover years. It was those same people who worked their asses off to elect what many consider the best president in US history.

I make no claim to have made the sacrifice you have, and it's unlikely that many around here have. But we've both enjoyed the highest standard of living (on average) that the world has ever seen. When have you given enough? Maybe the guys who have lost two legs would say you haven't done your share. That's a question only you can answer.

All I know is I'll never be able to do my share. I don't think it ends when you turn 65 or when you take your uniform off.

[jukes]

201. you're entitled to your opinion

maybe you can recite it to me again AFTER you've made a real sacrifice, instead of just making disparaging posts anonomously on a feeble message board.

how many people belong to DU? why aren't there millions?

because bloated "americans" don't care.

until you make a REAL sacrifice, i respectfully request you be more polite in your posts relative to folks w/ differing opinions. certainly, inform them of your opinion, but please do not insult people merely because their opinion differs from yours.


BTW, Max Cleland lost both legs in Viet Nam. they marginalized him, called him a coward, and drove him out of office. the dominionists have stolen this country, and even w/ voter fraud, enough "americans" voted for these monsters to have caused suffering you'll NEVER be able to understand.

this has NOT been 1 bad administration. nixon/reagan/bush1/bush2. if you think you can make it stop, i'd love to see you do it.

[wtmusic]

202. You take the cake

Yours are real sacrifices, and mine are not? Do you want a pissing war who's the better American, whether it makes your opinion on activism any more/less valid than mine? You want to recite to me when I've earned the right to an opinion?

Guess what? I don't need your permission. Ain't America grand?

If you take the time to reread my posts you'll see I haven't insulted anybody. If you feel insulted you can look inside for why. As for putting the country back on track, I hope training Venezuelans accomplishes all of your goals, whatever they may be. Unlikely it's helping America.

I met Max Cleland once. Shook his hand, talked to him briefly. There's one thing of which you can be damn sure--don't expect Max to be joining you in Venezuela.

[jukes]

205. sacrifices?

i seem to remember that YOU mentioned that i've sacrificed more than you.

you'll get your chance, son; 1ce they reinstitute the draft and you trade in that mountainbike for substandard body-armor.

i asked, politely, for you to treat other DUers w/ differing opinions w/ respect; you've responded w/ invective.

Mr. Cleland is 1 of the few democrat politicians that is not buried so deep up the admin's ass, or busyy lining his own pocket, to have my respect. in MY opinion of a fellow viet nam vet, i believe Mr. Cleland wd approve of venezuela preparing to defend themselves from this empire. and it wd mean that i, once again, wd be in harm's way to defend freedom.

i'm through w/ your sophomoric, self-righteous omniscience on what constitutes being a good american. i have no respect for your opinion or posts, so do not bother continueing YOUR pissing contest. i won't waste time answering you.

have a fine time in iran, boy...

[One_of_8]

208. Jukes, thank you

for your service, and for your words here today. It's especially offensive to hear another DUer calling someone selfish, vain, and worse, for wanting to spend his or her retirement in a place that they feel safe, can afford, and have worked hard their lives to accomplish.

[jukes]

210. thank you

for the prop!

so sad they had to endure the tantrum of a child.

[Greyhound]

189. Right on! n/t

[wtmusic]

Agree -- not only will America be a shithole

but it will continue to push the world in that direction.

[rockymountaindem]

105. Amen

I think this country is on the way back up in several regards. I feel much better about things now than I did at the same time last year. I really think most people are done with at least the most frightening excesses of the Bush admin. and it's neo-con philosophy.

[Greyhound]

190. We've barely begun to feel the effects of this loot-fest.

From an indefinitely de-stabilized ME, collapsing dollar and accompanying inflation, horrible SCOTUS with the real potential to become the worst in history, crippled or non-existent national disaster mechanism, depleted and demoralized national guard, civil rights curtailed or eliminated, schizophrenic education system,...
We are on the razors edge and even assuming that sanity takes hold in DC, we are going to suffer for a long time.

[LSK]

9. you should wait and see how the midterms turn out n/t

[catmother]

19. like i said we're taking our time. it will probably be a few years

before we make the move.

[LiberalVoice]

29. 90% of the dems currently in office are pussies!

Even if we had more control of both houses they will still be pussies. We shouldn't have to rely on whether or not they control a house for them to stand up and have a fucking backbone! They should stand up and take it.

[LSK]

36. its a funny thing what a majority can do for a backbone

And part of the 10% is John Conyers with subpeona power. Your gonna tell me that that will not make a difference???

[LiberalVoice]

76. Didnt say it wouldn't make a difference.

BUT, dems are only in power when people see what a terrible job repugs do while they are in office. And repugs are in power once everyone has forgotten how bad they are at it. It is not too much to ask OR DEMAND that the dems make there voices heard when they aren't at the top of the food chain.

[davidthegnome]

14. Good luck!

I'm considering it myself, but I'm just a pup, really, in my early twenties. Not quite yet, I think I'm going to stick around and see how things go for the next two or three years, but if they remain as awful as they are now, I'm going to Japan. I'm willing to fight for America, but I'll be damned if I'm going to keep up this ridiculous futile struggle against Cheney and his cronies. It's useless. The American people are too god damn stupid to see the truth.

[Bridget Burke]

16. Lots of people choose to retire outside the USA....

There are lots of reasons for that decision. If you can afford it, go ahead. You will still be able to vote.

There really is no reason for a lot of drama.

[tabasco]

38. If you can afford it?

The question is if you can afford to stay!

It's a lot cheaper to live in many other countries.

Especially health care!

[catmother]

47. exactly. see my post #23 re cost of health care.

[Bridget Burke]

71. Lots of us still need to work.

Sometimes are skills aren't easily portable.

[catmother]

77. i know. you can't just pick up a leave. it's different if your job

transfers you. but we're older and feel we've earned the right to live a little better if we choose to. we paid our dues living in new york most of our lives. 16 years ago we came to phoenix for a better life and now this will be another new adventure. what does jane fonda say? something like being in your 60s is act 3 of your life.

[Bridget Burke]

86. Great! Lots of people retire outside the USA.

There's no reason at all to make excuses.

[Journeyman]

18. Bye!. . .

n/t

[Democrats_win]

20. Why let Bu$h suck the life out of the late great United States?

Remember that halo they´d always have in pics of him? It wasn´t light coming from him, it was light being sucked from the room by him.

It was the nimbus of his black hole evil mind. Want proof? Ask yourself if he´s had one good idea? He´s spent the past five years living off of the good decisions of his predecessor and the hard work of millions of Americans.

[medeak]

21. life is too short

do what makes you happy!

[tabasco]

42. Words of wisdom.

I think it would be a great adventure to go live in another country.

I'm thinking about it too.

There are many reasons for moving.

Having fun and adventure (amd warm weather) sound pretty good to me!

[Betsy Ross]

22. The reach of America is beyond worldwide

It also will impact environments outside our world. As such, I feel there is no place to to be free of the impact of American policies and actions. You can choose to go someplace where you may not be reminded on a daily basis, but the ozone will continue to disappear and the nuclear threat will not go away. I feel it is my responsibility to myself, America, and the world to work, fight, to restore our democracy, to become a beacon of humanity and a protector of our environment. Pretty lofty ambitions, but the alternative would/is disasterous to the entire planet.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

24. I will never leave

my ancestors gave up too much to get here, and frankly I don't see the grass much greener anywhere else. I couldn't leave the land where my parents and grandparents rest, the little babies that didn't make it, my children, my grandchildren.

No, I'm here for the duration. A country to me is more than her politics. Humanity is the same everywhere. Because wherever you go...

There you are.


But Godspeed to you both as you make a difficult decision.

[catmother]

30. so did my ancestors. we don't have much family here. actually

we only have my mom in phoenix. hubby has a sister in new york. she can fly to costa rica as easily as she can fly here. same for my sisters. one is in canada and the other in vermont.

as far as my mom .many houses there come with a maid's quarters which would work fine for my mom who is 83. or if we build a house, we'll build a guest house for her.

we'll always be americans.

[lutefisk]

200. Many of our ancestors left another country for the USA

That's a good point. It must have been extremely difficult to make that decision and then follow through with it.

I respect those who made that choice then, as well as those that make it now.

[stanwyck]

26. I won't leave, but if the GOP continues

to take this country in the wrong direction - in every respect - it may be time for our young adult children to leave. Afterall, at some point decades ago, my ancestors decided it was time to pack up and try for a better life elsewhere.
Maybe it's time for that to occur again.
I'm not sure either one of my children will want to stay and raise a family in a country that condones torture, is increasingly repressive of civil rights, is becoming increasingly fundamentalist, disdains science and education, is anti-environmental, and worships materialism and war.

[Demobrat]

27. Costa Rica is beautiful, cheap and

much kinder to the elderly than the U.S. I am a bit younger than you, but very close to purchasing a piece of land there for when I can no longer afford to stay here (when I can no longer work and am therefore no longer of any value to this society). I wish you the best of luck.

[catmother]

32. i thank you.

[pitohui]

178. costa rica is not cheap!

louisiana is cheaper, i was appalled at the price of real estate, not that i was looking, but selling to ex-pats is really in your face in costa rica so you can't help but notice prices

it depends where you're coming from, yeah, coming from phoenix it's cheap but there are cheaper usa states

i wouldn't discourage her from going there as she can obviously afford to go where she likes but if cheap was the consideration i don't know why nicaragua is not in the running

[Oversea Visitor]

31. Lots of European

retire to my country
They become millionaire haha
Exchange rate 3.8 to the US dollars
Weather good sun whole year round
Good for old folk less ache and pain

[SoCalDem]

54. Where are you??

:hi:

[elehhhhna]

122. i googled 3.8 exchange rate & got Malaysia

[Oversea Visitor]

151. Malaysia

24 million people, 214 different group of people, English speaking mostly, Moderate Muslim country
but heck we all wish each other Merry Christmas, offical open house for all festival,
Lots of people feel at home here.

But Anti BUsh ..... not anti American, anti Isreal, If you are a gay its ok you still human,
2 million illegal workers from Indonesia, Phillipines Thailand Nepal India recently Africans

[movie_girl99]

33. how easy is it to go and live there? n/t

[catmother]

53. check out this website. even though it says retirement it will

tell you what you need to know.


http://www.1costaricalink.com/goldendoor/home.htm

i know that you can't take a job from a costa rican. if you don't have a job you must prove that you have a certain amount of money to live on so you won't be a drain on their social services.

[movie_girl99]

213. Thanks n/t

[helderheid]

34. Consider Loreto Bay in Mexico - PM me if you need connections - I got em

BIG ex-pat community:
http://www.loretobay.com/cms/index.html

[mike_c]

44. I've been considering the Mulege-Loreto-La Paz-Constitucion corridor....

I love southern Baja.

[helderheid]

48. Let me know if you need a connection! The homes aren't inexpensive but the

cost of living is very cheap and the healthcare is supposedly good and cheap.

[Le Taz Hot]

75. The problem with Mexico

is that the government can decide they "need" the land and whatever you've paid for your land/home is gone. Remember Rosarito Beach a few years ago? American ex-pats that had been there 20+ years, built homes, landscaped, made improvements and poof! Within 30 days the government decided they wanted the land and those people had NO recourse because they weren't citizens. (Even if they were citizens the Mexican government is so corrupt they would not have had any recourse unless they could pay out millions in bribes.)

[catmother]

80. mexico scares me. it's very corrupt. i remember a few years

ago there was a retired american man who was sitting in a restaurant when they came and arrested him and accused him of being a drug lord. he sat in jail for 9 months before he could even see a lawyer. needless to say, when he was set free he left mexico.

[area51]

39. Good for you.

The cost of healthcare is absolutely insane in this country. If I could get a job offer in another country I'd leave as soon as possible. I'd like to be able to work for a living -- next to impossible w/offshoring, & currently have no access to medical care due to being unemployed.

[spag68]

40. Moving to Costa Rica

May look good, but please stay and help us get these thugs out first. I'm retired too and have looked there, but be warned, bring a bushel of money.

[catmother]

49. we'll be here for a few more years. our income at that point will

be approximatley $8,000 per month or $96,000 a year. i think we can live pretty good on that. i've already checked out real estate, cars, etc. i know that buying a car there will be about 30% more than here.

[prolesunited]

57. You could live like royalty

on that much a month in many places in the world.

[catmother]

83. we've been blessed. my husband has been with his company

for 37 years. he could have retired after 30 and gotten a pension. he makes very good money, which means his pension will be high and his social security will be the max. well actually if he retires at 62 it will be less than full retirement age but it will still be a lot. and mine is high because i made good money when i worked.

[Seabiscuit]

59. A friend of ours is doing quite well in Costa Rica on much less than that.

[catmother]

69. yes. my understanding is that we will be able to live quite well

on our income.

[mike_c]

43. I will be retiring outside the U.S. too-- best of luck to you...

...when the time comes to leave. I'll be about ten years behind you unless the shit really hits the fan before then.

[demosincebirth]

46. I hope you and your husband are both healthy when you decide

to leave for Costa Rica. Health care is very important in a foreign country.

[catmother]

60. see my post #49. i tell what our income will be.

[Demobrat]

68. Health care in Costa Rica is excellent.

Matter of fact it's becoming a favorite place for people from all over the world to get dental work done. A crown is about $250 - and the work is excellent. I know. :-)

Also hear the same is true of cosmetic surgery. Now that I can't vouch for !

[catmother]

70. yes. it's great. right now i'm paying $1250 for crowns, $1900 for

implants. i believe their implants are $800.00

what do you mean you can vouch for the cosmetic surgery? i've heard that it's good. i've had my share of nipping and tucking here so it will be nice to know that i don't have to fly back here for my cosmetic surgery.

[Demobrat]

97. Well I haven't had any nips or tucks yet.

But when I do it won't be here! :)

[catmother]

101. don't know where you live. but arizona is a great place for

cosmetic surgery. people come here from california and other states because the prices are much lower. and i have an excellent surgeon.

[Demobrat]

135. I'm in San Francisco.

I'll keep that in mind! :-)

[pitohui]

181. health care is WORLD CLASS in costa rica

they have great public health care and your life expectancy goes up when you move from usa to costa rica

[catmother]

188. one of the things i've read says that the food is fresh and not

full of chemicals and preservatives. that alone would raise one's life expectancy.

[Seabiscuit]

50. If you wait another 4 years, there may be no more Murika. The Armageddon

and the Rapture the neocons and fundies have been planning for us all may have already passed.

So forget about waiting until your husband is eligible for social security. Take what money you have now and run while it's still safe to fly.

[converted_democrat]

52. I feel ya, we're looking at Mexico.. I don't know what I want to do.. I'd

like to stay here and sell my business to start a soup kitchen, but if things don't change I don't really want to be here.. Regardless, I want to sell off most of our stuff, and be able to move quickly if we have to..

[mnhtnbb]

55. We are building a place in Panama

My husband is 63 and I'm 55, but our youngest doesn't graduate high school until 2008.

We looked at a lot of countries last year (Belize, Canada, New Zealand, Bonaire,
Turks/Caicos, Bahamas, Ireland) before deciding on Panama. It has excellent benefits for retirees. The 2004 election was what decided us.

I suggest www.internationalliving.com and www.escapeartist.com

for resource information if you are serious about getting out.

We are applying for a permanent resident visa in Panama, including our son, in case we have to get out quickly. In fact, he goes for his required physical this afternoon. We've taken out a home equity loan and if we don't have to leave before he graduates, we'll sell this house and rent an apartment to get all the equity out by 2008, but still retain residency so our son will be eligible for NC in-state tuition.

We figure what we're doing is planning for the worst and hoping for the best.

[catmother]

62. i've heard that panama is great for retiring. but when i checked

out the weather it said it's hot and humid. in costa rica we would be living in the central valley where the temps are cooler and the humidity is lower. after 16 years in phoenix i like the dry climate.

[mnhtnbb]

115. Check out the Boquete region of Panama

It's in the mountains where it's cooler. Very popular for ex-pats.
Panama is extemely retiree friendly. We love the beach, however, so we're building on the Caribbean side on Islas Bastimentos at a place called Red Frog Beach Club.

www.panamainfo.com

[catmother]

124. thank you. i will check it out. and good luck to you.

[SoCalDem]

126. 9 degrees off the equator, baby..... HOT..Hot... HOT

but the highlands are cooler.. I grew up there, and as much as I might like to retire there, I'm afraid I would bee too heartbroken to see what's happened to that gorgeous pristine place I knew..

[catmother]

131. are you talking about costa rica or panama? have you ever

been to phoenix in the summer? we've had temps as high as 122.

[SoCalDem]

132. Panama.. True about AZ, but the constant humidity of the jungle

wears at your last nerve.. Our Kansas realtives came to visit us in "Dry Season", and were surprised to learn that "dry season" only meant it rained once or twice a day, as opposed to two weeks straight all day all night..

Raindrops hit the windshield in half-dollar sized splats :)

[catmother]

134. that's what i read when i checked out panama. the first thing

i looked up was the weather. it said, hot, humid, cloudy. i didn't search any further. i understand that costa rica has a raining season too, but there's a town called santa ana where they say you don't get the rain and it's cooler and drier. i hate humidity. had enough of that in new york.

[deutsey]

58. And subject yourself to Bush's foreign policy? Are you nuts?

:evilgrin:

[mnhtnbb]

61. He isn't going to care about an out of the way hard to reach island

without oil.

[deutsey]

64. Like Grenada?

Oops. Sorry. That was another rightwing nutjob.

[lonestarnot]

66. That's what keeps me here! LOL

[lonestarnot]

65. You may want to rethink Costa Rica although it is beautiful,

but becoming overpopulated.

[catmother]

74. i know. and as the population goes up so does the crime. i'm

in phoenix, north of carefree highway up on 2-1/2 acres on the side of a hill. it's quite beautiful but if i go down to carefree hwy or I-17, it's a mess. when we bought our property here was no anthem and no tramanto.

[lonestarnot]

78. Yes, but now there is more than just one way in and one way out

as was in the past.

[catmother]

87. well yeah. cave creek rd., 99th ave and i understand noterra

pkwy comes through now. i haven't tried it yet.

[lonestarnot]

93. No offense intended here, but I wouldn't "drive" to Cave Creek

Carefee every day, it they gave me the whole damn place.

[catmother]

99. my husband just finished 5 months of driving to chandler every

day. now he's at Yorkshire and I-17. and sometimes he's in another state working. that's how it is if you want to keep a job and make money or did you mean you would not live this far north? it's worth it -- when you come home and have peace and quiet and wildlife walking across your property. it's all about priorities.

[lonestarnot]

102. Your poor husband! Yeah I would live north if I didn't have to

do the daily commute, but there is no employment out there unless you own your own business. Such is life in a megalopolis. Drive drive drive pay pay pay ... but more importantly the time and the aggravation with the traffic is what takes the toll on me.

[catmother]

107. i know. it's hard on him. right now like i said he's pretty close to

home. we're only 5 minutes from I-17 and it looks like he'll be at that location for the rest of the year. but even when he was working in chandler and dealing with traffic he was glad that he was not travelling. as he says I want to sleep in my own bed at night. 2 years ago he worked 8 months in minneapolis -- just coming home on weekends. before that he was on the road at least 2 weeks out of the month. there's been a lot of sacrifices on both our parts for him to keep this well-paying job. i'll always remember be alone on 9/11. he was in chicago and called me and told me. he kept his rental car and drove home -- just stopping in texas to sleep a few hours.

i guess i'm saying all this because there are a lot of people on this thread who are pissed that we're thinking about leaving the country. we've paid our dues and if we want to live somewhere else that's our right.

[lonestarnot]

109. Yes it is your right to live where ever you damned well please!

You should know by now catmother, that there are 50 gajillion opinions on these boards. Don't let anyone get under your skin.

[Radio_Guy]

67. Bye

I plan to stay and fight. I'm not leaving my country. That would be like waving the white flag and giving up. This is MY country, and I will fight and battle until every conservative is out of office and we have a progressive government once again. Are there other countries that have better presidents that actually look out for all their constituents? You bet. But I will not leave my birthplace. I will do all I can to fight the rethugs and make sure Democrats are voted in.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

72. Theres only one Earth

And we all gotta live on it.

While I feel and understand what you are saying, don't think that leaving the country will allow you to escape the policies and influence of the United States and Bush in particular.

You'll be twice a victim of Bush. A victim here in the country by being associated with him, and a victim elsewhere because of the effect his policies will have on your new aboad.

best of luck.

[nancyr]

73. Wish I could go, too.

If I had the means to do so, I'd be out of here. It's only going to get worse, and this is no longer a country I want to call home. The goons in charge have ruined it....and I'm afraid I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel. I am ashamed to call myself an American anymore.

[dennis4868]

82. I'm leaving in the summer...

let me know when things change here. :-(

[Greyhound]

191. Costa Rica? n/t

[Initech]

84. I'm with you, especially if the Iran situation escalates.

Not to mention if people take hate radio's actions and start inciting violence against illigal immigrants. There's no way in hell I would want to associate myself with the repukes. If either one of those situations escalate, I'm outta here. There's no way I could pay taxes to a government I dont support.

[catmother]

89. talk about right wing radio. i just saw "good night and good luck"

the other night and i was amazed at the similarities. the right wing referring to the left as pinkos and there was a writer named o'brien who wrote against morrow and CBS. i said to my husband "o'brien, o'reilly same thing". made me wonder if that's why this country is still so afraid of the left. has it been passed down from generations?

i mean some people hear Universal Health Care and they get scared and think communism or socialism. WTF?

[Initech]

103. I was amazed at the similiarities, too...

I wonder if the movie was made to compare what happened in the 1950's with McCarthy to now or what? You could probably do an entire thesis on comparing what happened in the movie to what's happening now.

[catmother]

108. yes. it made me very sad. it's all these little things that are

going on that have made us start to think about leaving. this country is so far to the right that the earth has probably shifted. lol

did you ever see the documentary "heir to an execution"? it was done by the grandaughter of ethel and julius rosenberg. if you haven't, it's probably on a DVD. really makes you think and wonder if those people were really guilty of treason or just fighting for social justice.

[Initech]

113. I pondered leaving before the last election

I mean before coming here, I never not once realized how dangerous the Bush, neocon, and fundie cabal has been to our country. But it frightens me that not that many people are out for change and unless we start changing for the better I think I'm going to be leaving for good.

And I'll definately make it a point to see that documentary if my local video store has it.

[wtmusic]

91. Good. Go.

Go to another country and "outsource" your pensions and social security. Don't feel any obligation to work so that future kids might be able to get a good education that you got.

You don't see a future here? Correction: you don't see a future for YOU here. :eyes:

[catmother]

96. work? are you reading my posts. i'm retired and my husband

is close to retirement. and work? we live with the fear everyday that his job will be outsourced. there may not be any work to do.

do you want us to work until we drop dead? we've worked all our lives and paid high taxes and will still be paying taxes to the US when we leave. think about what you're saying before you hit the "post" button.:sarcasm:

[wtmusic]

100. I'm not talking about a job

I'm talking about activism. I'm talking about campaigning, getting on the phone, taking the time to fix what's wrong with the US instead of bailing on it. And don't tell me you're too old (I precinct-walked with an 81-year old woman in 2004).

Apart from taxes, your income will be going to pay for goods and services in Costa Rica. That's outsourcing (maybe your husband's job will be outsourced to CR and he can get it again--for 1/4 the pay).

To each his own. To me it's a complete cop out.

[catmother]

106. okay mr. smarty pants. my sister has been living in canada

since 1974. she writes articles and posts for the DU. her name is NanceGreggs. take a look at her articles and posts and then try to tell me that she is not making a difference in this country. her articles have even been picked up by newspapers in other countries. she has made the greatest page several times.

and my husband may just ask his company if he can work in costa rica. they don't lower your pay. when we moved here from new york, they transferred him with his new york salary.

[confludemocrat]

114. high taxes seem front and center in your story, yeah go

I hate what this country is doing right now, but taxes are the least of what I can think of as a reason to leave.

[catmother]

118. no it's not just the taxes. it's how far the country has gone to the

right, how we went into iraq and killed and maimed innocent people. and iraq is not the only place. we've been involved in el salvador, nicaragua and many other countries where we had no right to go in. it's our relationship with the saudi's for the sake of oil, how we never questionned that 14 of the 9/11 murderers were from saudi arabia. it's the fact that we do not have universal health care. we are supposedly the richest most powerful country in the world, yet we have children who go to bed hungry at night, how we have people who are homeless. how we have outsourced our good paying jobs and continue to do so. our education system sucks. i could go on and on.


:rant:

[Ilsa]

95. My former minister relocated to Costa Rica with his wife.

He's pretty liberal as well. They've visited and lived there part time for ages and love it.

[enid602]

98. moving

I would like to move as well, but how does one move one's equity (in IRA, house), without attracting suspicion or Homeland Security. I don't know if I'd want to be in Argentina if my funds are here in the US. Argentina is traditionally an ally of the US, but they've recently sided with Brasil with re: to Iraq bombing; I could be an enemy alien if Brasil acts in concord with its Chinese, Russian and Indian allies. Is it legal to take funds out of the States? Even if it is, it would still be hard to pay the penalties and taxes associated with liquidating an IRA.

[mnhtnbb]

117. IRA's can be rolled over into all sorts of investments

People who are buying at our development in Panama are using their IRA's.

[catmother]

127. i haven't checked that out. we have a substantial sum in my

husband's 401k. i'll have to consult an expert. i know if we take it out all at once there would be taxes due. we've always kinda figured that the small amount the company contributes would pay the taxes.

[Adelante]

165. Leave your money in the States

Except for a moderate amount in a local bank account or investment house, enough to live on for several months, but withdraw regular cash from ATMs. Remember, ATMS are everywhere. Most ex-pats do not move all of their money. There's no reason. I don't know why you're worrying about Homeland Security. People move out all the time. It's no big deal.

[pitohui]

183. it's legal to take funds out if you REPORT properly

you cannot take any more than $10K out of the usa without filing a form, but it is really easy, hell, i've done it to gamble on a damn cruise ship

you will hear people bitch abt how hard it is to take $$ out of the usa, listen closer, they are talking abt taking it illegally, without filing the proper paperwork, look if you win $10,001 at the casino you have to file a currency transaction report but some nimrods think they should be able to take millions out of the country and not say boo to anyone, sorry, no, they must have got themselves mixed up with ken lay

keep it legal and file the appropriate reports and you'll be fine

i don't enjoy the paperwork hassle either but if it didn't exist, there wouldn't be a penny left in the usa today after all these decades of reagan-bush we'd be totally looted

yes, when you move to a foreign land and your country of origin is an aggressor, you always take the risk of being incarcerated for duration of any war even if you are progressive and/or innocent, that is what happened to progressive germans all over the world during ww2, don't know abt argentina but certainly in brazil they were rounded up and locked away, just as we locked away the japanese

some pretty harmless people such as helmut sick (how do you get more harmless than a birdwatcher?) were in concentration camps for years because of this

we would hope the usa would knock it off w. the wars since we can hardly afford the war on the 2 nations that don't even have any weapons but who knows

sure if the worst happens, you're in a camp for the duration in a foreign country

cute story abt this, jg ballard's empire of the sun, based on his time in a chinese concentration camp, but he was 10-12 yrs old at the time and apparently has an infinite capacity to enjoy himself no matter how shitty the externals of his life

so my answer is, you can move funds easily, just talk to your tax advisor and if he seems clueless, get one who has a clue, and if you really expect the usa to keep provoking wars, yeah, realistically you're actually safer at home if you're not the equivalent of the jews etc. in nazi germany -- but if you were that, you'd already know you have nothing to lose by trying elsewhere if you can afford it

[bikebloke]

104. An article on Costa Rica.

http://www.escapeartist.com/efam/79/Costa_Rica_Nightmare.html

I visited Costa Rico a couple years ago. It wasn't bad, but it just didn't click with me. I've travelled rough a lot, where you learn to trust your sixth sense. But that just might be applicable for me.

One thing to keep in mind, is what will happen to your new country's economy when the us economy collapses.

[catmother]

111. thanks for the link. i'm not a person who does thing without

checking out everything. we moved to phoenix in 1989 but had pondered the idea in 1984. after many trips, we decided it was for us. we will do the same with costa rica. i might go there and hate it and forget the whole idea. on the other hand if we do like it i will spend time there before any definite plans are made. i'm not working so i can actually go there for weeks or months at a time, rent a place and see what it's like actually living there on a day-to-day basis. i think they allow you a visa for 3 months at a time.

[mnhtnbb]

120. See post #115

for info on the mountains of Panama.

[diamidue]

143. Trying it on for size first

This is also something I would like to do. I've been toying with the idea of purchasing or renting an apt or condo in Costa Rica and using it as a vacation home until we retire and then perhaps moving there full time. Health care is a huge issue for us. It's not a matter of deserting my country. I'll keep my home in CA. I just like having the option - in case it gets too "Fascist" in this country. And Costa Rica is absolutely beautiful & the people are the friendliest.

[Bridget Burke]

197. It's good that you are checking things out first....

Friends of a friend moved to Mexico--the Lake Chapala region near Guadalajara. I've been there--lovely countryside, friendly people, perfect weather & a big city nearby.

Since many US & Canadian citizens retire there, real estate sharpies abound. Apparently, they rush people into buying houses, 1 hour after they've gotten off the plane! These friends like Mexico, but complain about the other expats in their subdivision. Far too snobby--when other areas have much more likable folks!

[DFW]

112. Europe

I have been station chief for my outfit over here for 26 years now, married to a European, and almost
feel like I live here, although I maintain my Texas residence. My wife is European, and our daughters
have dual citizenship, although for now they choose to live in the USA. They wanted to make sure their
first votes were against Bush!

I have the luxury of being able to afford to go back and forth whenever I want, and have homes in both
places, and I'll tell you this much: I wouldn't want to give either one of them. As much as I am abroad,
and as much as I have fit in (I have had friends in more than one European country tell me "you're
practically one of us"), I remain passionately American, and as concerned about U.S. affairs as if I
were in the U.S. Senate. Well, considering some of our Senators, probably more so.

It's such a laugh--in the USA the radical right blasts me for being a "libbrul," and overseas I get
ribbed (the Europeans are less nasty than the the radical right in America: way less insecure) for
being an American patriot.

I'll tell you this much--the longer you are away, and the more you grow to consider another country your
home, the more you remember the land you left. You may be away, but you never really forget. Be prepared
to deal with than if you go for good.

[catmother]

128. my sister has lived in canada since 1976. even though she pays

canadian taxes and has all the benefits of their health care, she is truly american. i mentioned in another post that she writes articles and posts for DU. she is very passionate and really makes people think. her and her husband had considered moving back to the states when they retired but they don't want to give up the health benefits. also they have a whole network of friends.

if you want to check her writing it's NanceGreggs.

[sweetheart]

195. well said

That fits with my own experience as well, your last paragraph.

Maybe by living outside the US, the media brainwashing frame is
shattered, and one comes to recall and know the true place,
for lack of a televised substitute.

I think it's just people and their karmas. Some persons will
not feel comfortable taking the cultural leap in their new homes,
as most, like in this tread, focus on "gettin' out", but not
what integrating in their future community will involve, or
what (who) they'll miss when away "forever".

From the POV of the culture one moves "to", the expectation is
a contribution to the society of some sort, more than money, and
whatever can be asked of each immigrant. I guess people don't
see the next hurdle beyond leaving, that is "arriving" and that
is painfully slow, expensive and long term... it is not
something one does lightly.

I respect how this lady says in the OP, when it comes to that,
you can feel it. I know when i did, and there was no way i
could have stayed. For all our rational thoughts, lots of decisions
like this come from the gut.

[Keseys Ghost]

116. We talk about leaving often

Just haven't given up yet.

But we'll leave before they get their hands on our kid. Bank on that.

[cassiepriam]

130. I have a few years til my child is draft age. Then I am gone.

I already have a plan, and arranging dual citizenship for my child.

[guinivere]

133. I don't blame you one bit for wanting to leave.

If I had the resources I think I would be packing up in the next couple of years.
If the boneheads usher in the draft, I may be going anyway.

Aside from getting away from here, I think it's part of life's big adventure. You only get one go-around, make it count.

I hope your planning goes smoothly. And I wish you and your husband all the best.

[catmother]

139. thank you.

[WinkyDink]

136. My husband would move to some Alpine area today if he could.

Or, rather, if I'd go, too. :)

But moi? Nah; I like my American sports, TV, and malls too much! So, Pennsylvania is where I stay!

[Neil Lisst]

140. you have to do what's right for you, considering the totality of factors

Home is where the people you know and love are, wherever you make that.

[LaPera]

141. Beautiful Island of New Zealand...But they won't accept most Americans.

The size of California, English speaking incredibly beautiful & progressive New Zealand...

Great places to live and raise a family.

But if your not the right age, don't have the right job skills and/or other factors...YOU will not be accepted.

[porphyrian]

147. Do whatever the hell you want.

That's the nature of liberty.

[LWolf]

152. Whatever you decide,

I know it will be a thoughtful, reasoned decision, right for you and your family.

:hug:

[Toucano]

153. I admire your courage.

Don't let some people convince you you're doing something "cowardly".

Regardless of the reason, immigrating to a new country is a major challenge, but it can also be very rewarding.

Good luck.

[ScreamingMeemie]

154. This is my country. I will stay and fight for Her.

I encourage others to do the same.

[Swamp Rat]

158. I lived in Costa Rica

I went to school in the Alajuela region and also lived in Guanacaste (I've been to almost every part of the country).

It is a VERY beautiful and safe country, and Ticos are some of the nicest people on Earth.

If I were you, I would not wait. Unfortunatley, I have my city to save (New Orleans) and school to finish, but I may immigrate in a few years... probably back to South America, though I will definately return to CR.

¡Pura vida! :hi:

[Jamison]

159. Sometimes I think it would be nice to leave.

If you're wealthy, it's a possibility, so if you have the money, go for it.

Unfortunately I don't, so I'll be left behind living in some cardboard box slum with everyone else someday. :(

[mnhtnbb]

161. It's a lot less expensive to live in many other countries

Good resources: www.internationalliving.com
www.escapeartist.com

[mmonk]

168. The US government is fundamentally broken right now.

We're in what amounts to a dictatorship when those that rule are bound by no laws. I don't blame you and I'm planning to visit Canada soon to look for property. At least I can be a seasonal resident for awhile by crossing the border every six months.

[pitohui]

185. thinking abt buying property in canada

if you happen to see this post, could you PM me some links?

i do not want to move to canada, just visit once in awhile and otherwise rent out the place, could i still buy a rental unit or condo?

my dad wants to buy a time share but the math don't work w. time share, by that, i don't mean dad is broke, i mean he is over-paying for a couple of weeks compared to if he owned it entire

[mmonk]

198. What type of links?

Real estate related? If so, I'd be glad to. Currently looking at Nova Scotia.

[bluestateguy]

170. Just stay registered to vote

We need your votes.

Red staters tend to reproduce faster.

[catmother]

171. don't worry. i will.

[clyrc]

172. MY best moment as an expat:

My five year old daughter caught a rare skin disease, and she was in the hospital for eight days. For most of that time I was terrified that I was going to lose her. I stayed in the hospital for seven of those days, letting my husband spend one of the days with her. On the seventh day, the doctor decided she was well enough to go home the next day. I was already so relieved I felt giddy, but there was more good news to come. The next afternoon when I was sent down with the paperwork so she could go home, I showed my medical card, the man at the desk made a phone call, and marked "paid" on the papers." I almost danced right then and there. I was euphoric for a week, so happy my baby was ok, and we wouldn't be ruined by hospital bills. Hospital bills were a huge problem for us in the States, in spite of having insurance.

Now, my daughters are getting an excellent education, without having to worry aobut those stupid standardized tests that are dominating Florida schools. They get lessons in different cultures every day, because they have friends from India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Sri Lanka, Burma, Argentina, Canada, Egypt and even a few from the US. They are happy, safe and well entertained here, and we have enough money to travel, which we all love.

Sometimes I do feel a little guilty for leaving the States. I still feel love for the US, and I find myself defending it from time to time. The country I live in now is good in some ways and bad in others, and I'm at times conflicted over it. But I can say that about the States, too, so I'm used to feeling that way.

[pitohui]

173. well you still have to pay taxes as a usa citizen

i hope you understand that usa citizens pay taxes to usa no matter where they live in the world or else a like amt of tax to the place where they live under some agreements, i have relatives who are ex-pats and the tax situation is v. v. complicated, and they are now v. worried abt additional tax if one spouse should die, have to admit i didn't understand that part, but apparently in some situations you can be taxed more as an ex-pat

you don't get your medicare either

ok, away with the negatives, here are the positives --

as far as future oriented countries, i liked my little taste of costa rica and it's a good retiree haven but if you are looking for future-oriented people i have to say that i am VERY impressed by what i have seen of panama, so check both of them out

don't assume costa rica will be the easier place to live, you will have little prob. as an english speaker in the canal zone of panama, and it is fully dollarized, costa rica still has its own currency (tho dollar is widely accepted) and such nuisances as every time you exit the country to visit the grandkids you gotta stand in that stupid line to pay that stupid exit tax

also, if you're have a dark view of the future, costa rica is tourism dependent, if high oil prices or world war cause tourism to collapse, costa rica will be in a world of hurt, panama by contrast is a nerve center for banking and transport, it is a WORKING country


and the roads in panama beat the roads in costa rica all to crap frankly

i even think panama may be a tad less expensive

so check it out

i don't want to leave louisiana but if i did, panama would be HIGH on the list

you can always visit costa rica for those great plastic surgeons :wink:

[catmother]

180. thank you. i checked out panama but the weather there is too

humid for me. i don't have grandkids to come back to, so if we make the move we probably won't be coming back. i left new york 16-1/2 years ago and have never been back. so far the central valley of costa rica appeals to us -- especially santa ana. i'm trying to book a trip for next month. panama is out -- weather is a big thing for me. i've always done well in spanish speaking countries, i.e., mexico and my many many trips to puerto rico. i learned the language back in high school but haven't used it unless i'm in a spanish speaking country or when i deal with the mexicans here. i'm sure it will come back. if not, i'll take a course. lol

[pitohui]

182. ok i'm from louisiana

i don't notice humidity so that's one thing i never think of

you're gonna be fine

me, i don't like those roads of costa rica, i like a nice smooth road even i have to pay a toll a la mexico or panama but when you're retired and a lot of time is spent on the old homestead it is not so big a deal methinks

[catmother]

186. well i'm originally from new york where it's quite humid and i

never really noticed until i came to phoenix. now when we get a little humidity here i freak out. lol. actually the road we live on now was just paved a little more than a year ago. it was really bumpy and broken up and you have to go up and down 2 hills to get to my house. some of us that live up here got together and paid to have it paved, but there's still a lot of roads up in this area that are not paved. i won't being bringing my little sports car there.

[NMMNG]

194. Do what you need to for your wellbeing

Don't let anybody try to guilt-trip you into doing anything else. You need to do what is best for you and your loved ones.


If I had the financial resources I'd probably be looking for a suitable place to emigrate. Why wait around for the theo-fascists to decide which one of my traits they want to imprison or execute me for? At the rate things are going, most of them are going to be punishable by either penalty within the next decade. I'd rather not give them the satisfaction.

[Roland99]

203. I know two others (besides myself) that have seriously considered moving

esp. if the Propagandist bombs Iran with nukes!

[Strong Atheist]

214. I understand. I am not. First, I am not rich enough, but even if I was,

I wouldn't. This is the only country I have.....

Good luck to you!:pals: