For those planning on leaving the US and those planning on staying

[helderheid]

I don't see why people are so angry at those who wish to leave the US - we don't know for certain what our future holds but wouldn't it be better if we had a world wide DU network in case we all have to leave sometime? Just like the Underground Railroad - this is the Democratic Underground Railroad.

I won't bash anyone who plans on leaving. We need people inside and outside the US on the side of the Constitution.

[Beelzebud]

1. I refuse to stand and watch as the good ones leave...

It's bullshit, and a cowardly thing to do.

Turn your back on your nation, when your nations NEEDS you the most...

It's unforigvable....


I'll be making my stand right here in the land of my birth. It IS worth fighting for.

[helderheid]

2. Glad to have you here but I still stand by my statement.

:hi:

[Lerkfish]

11. I support your statement.

in my gut, I feel we are in an analagous situation as when the Nazis took over Germany. There is a short period of relative safety to leave, and then, there won't be a way to leave, and then it will be too late.

I don't consider those who left germany cowards, they are the ones who survived.

[leftchick]

36. Exactly right!

I would stay in America and join a resistance movement if I did not have two children. I am leaving for their survival.

[novalib]

4. I Hear You....BUT

I would rather be a live American, fighting the regime from outside the USA....

than a dead victim.

If it ever gets that serious (and I believe it will, given the course of events), I'm going to leave and continue the fight from outside the United States.

[helderheid]

6. I hope it doesn't get that serious but I hear ya.

[bmcatt]

8. What a very enlightened position... not

I speak as someone who's considering leaving. I have a wife and 2 young kids (3.5 years and 6 months). The country I was born in (almost 39 years ago) doesn't exist any more.

I'm not against fighting. But my first responsibiilty is *NOT* to fight for the ideal of my country. It's to fight for my family. The vast majority of American citizens seem to no longer remember nor care about the ideals of this country. Whether anyone wants to claim that it's because they've been brainwashed, are listening to the propaganda or are just plain dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks stupid, it doesn't matter. You can't stage a revolution with a tiny minority. I see too many people (not here) who are perfectly happy to watch their rights get taken away, bit-by-bit, and think it's ok, so long as they can watch American Idol and hear about the latest missing blonde girl.

I respect your right to your opinion that the ideals of this country are worth fighting for. I even support that effort. That does not, however, give you the right to insult and denigrate, nor question the patriotism of, those of us who contemplate escaping as an alternative.

Consider Germans in 1935-1937... If they had a chance to escape the oncoming tragedy of WWII, would you have blamed them for not staying and being "Good Germans"? I, personally, see the current situation as *very* akin to that

[converted_democrat]

24. I couldn't agree with you more.. And a belated welcome to DU!!

"The country I was born in (almost 39 years ago) doesn't exist any more."

For me it was 27 years, but my feelings are exactly the same..

[uppityperson]

14. When, where from did your ancestors immigrate from?

do you forgive them? It is ok to not want to leave, but not ok to insult those who do.

[Telly Savalas]

18. We left for job reasons.

But if you really want my kid to go without health-care, then I guess we'll move back to appease you.

[bryant69]

26. I don't think that's what the guy is saying

It's one thing to leave because you have a job, or simply because you want to travel. It's another to leave because you think America is finished. Those are two seperate things.

[TexasLawyer]

19. I'm here too

This is MY country. I'm getting it back.

[bryant69]

25. I agree with this

I think it might be phrased more nicely, but this is how I feel as well.

I'll also say that if those leaving feel a rebuke from those of us who stay, it goes both ways. I've seen more than one person leaving imply that those of us staying are naive dolts.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[helderheid]

27. I suppose I should have mentioned that there is no reason for those

leaving to be nasty to those who stay. Thanks for the reminder! :hi:

[lastliberalintexas]

29. No, the idea that LAND is worth fighting for is bullshit

Or even a country, for that matter. Perhaps if the acre that you were fighting over was the last arable soil on earth and the only way you would be able to eat, then I guess that land would be worth fighting over. Otherwise, not so much.

I guess the fact that I don't get that concept is also why I've always had such a problem with the Palestenian-Israeli conflict. :shrug:

[Karenina]

37. It IS worth fighting for.

To YOU. Perhaps not to others. And NONE of those who have left or are considering doing so require your judgements or forgiveness. It's another one of those CHOICE issues.

[tabasco]

39. I was in the infantry for twelve years.

I'll move any goddamn place I want.

[Fridays Child]

3. If I left it would be for the safety of my children. Nothing trumps that.

Nothing. And, if Bu$h nukes Iran, this country will no longer be safe.

[helderheid]

5. You and me both. Have 2 little ones with dual citizenship and I'm

scared for them.

[alfredo]

7. In 1969 I had just left the Army and was hitch hiking across

Africa. My final night in Africa was in Dakar. On the night I was leaving I ran across Mariam Makeba at the airport. I stopped to talk with her. I voiced my reservations about returning to the US and she told me to return to the belly of the beast and fight from there.


I can't leave even if I want to. I am barred from immigrating. For five years I was barred from traveling outside the US, and my immigration restrictions are for the rest of my life. Everything I write is supposed to be reviewed, but I don't think it applies to something like this.

I'm stuck here. I guess I have no choice but to make my stand here.

[Extend a Hand]

9. I agree completely

I've said the same thing over the last year in a number of threads.

[RufusEarl]

10. If americans by americans i mean DU er's leave the USA,

to what country would one most likely flee to? I'm just curious, i don't plan on leaving the states. But i have thought about where to make my stand, because i do believe we're going to have to make a stand in the near future.

But my main question is this; Is there a particular country that most DUer's will go? And if so why that country?

[helderheid]

13. for me the natural choice is the Netherlands because of my connections

there. I speak the language and my husband and kids have citizenship there.

[RufusEarl]

33. Well the Netherlands is a good choice,

and it helps to speak the language. Good luck wherever you end up!

[helderheid]

34. thanks - for now I'm staying put. We'll see!

[helderheid]

31. I should also mention places I've been hearing about

Mexico ( I have connections here: http://www.loretobay.com/cms/index.html pm me if you want them)
Panama
Costa Rica
Canada

[Mythsaje]

12. I don't have the option of leaving...

for a number of reasons.

So here I am and here I remain.

[BooScout]

15. As your first response shows......

There are those that are so filled with hate about this subject that they will not listen to anyone's reasons for leaving. I have had to put up with shit like that since before I left. It gets old and it's petulant and full of empty bravado on their part IMHO.

Why I left? Husband is a Brit. Economically it was better for us here in the UK and both of us were sick to death of Bush and knew that even when the Democrats regain the presidency......if they regain it.....it will never be the same again. Bush has managed to so ruin America, both at home, and it's reputation abroad that it will take a generation or more to repair the damage.

I lost my job in the States, the country is run by a madman, and I see people doing not one damned thing about that. What was I supposed to do? Stay, look for a job at half my salary and worry about healthcare and non-existant retirement hopes? I left. Miss the hell out of America sometimes but am still glad I went. It no easier watching the US go down the toilet from abroad than it is at home and I would wager many that brag about 'staying and fighting' don't do much fighting at all but talk a mean and ugly talk...mostly full of hot air.

[MuseRider]

16. If my children were younger

I just might make the plans to go. They are gone, adult, on their own. I will help them leave if they need to but I am staying.

Everyone has a personal decision to make. I don't understand what is so hard to understand about that. If you gotta go more power to you. I will stay but that is me.

I'm with you on this.

[helderheid]

17. thanks. My husband doesn't get how bad it is - I have urged him

to have us move back to the Netherlands but he's not interested. I just hope that if things get worse he'll wake up before it's too late. We have little kids.

[MuseRider]

22. My husband has been begging to leave

since about 2000! I can't leave easily for practical reasons, I have a farm and lots of critters including 7 horses. It is not easy to pick up and go. Still, he is free if he gets afraid enough to go. I have this nasty stubborn streak that had gotten me into trouble before but I just can't let it go, I won't leave. Like I said before, if I was in your shoes with little ones I would be making a different decision most likely.

[helderheid]

42. LOL Sounds like my hubby and your hubby should have a beer! :)

[Coyote_Bandit]

20. As someone who is well educated and has become long-term

unemployed under the ** administration I will relocate anywhere in the world. That decision has nothing to do with whether I love this country, whether I am willing to contend for its future or whether I wish to relocate abroad. My first obligation is to take care of and provide for myself. If I have to go elsewhere to achieve that then so be it. Labor is, after all, a global commodity. If the skills I have to offer can be employed elsewhere then why should I stick around the good old USA, add to my collection of rejection letters, and continue to pursue personal ruin? I could care less if someone thinks it cowardly or wrong of me to look outside of this country to achieve my goals. Not everyone who leaves this country or considers doing so is motivated by matters of principle. For some of us the decision is very, very practical.

[catmandu57]

21. I can't leave

Physically, and financially I'm here to stay, though if the worst case comes to past I'll be picked up in the first wave, it gives me comfort to know that there will be people on the outside to continue the fight.

[Pastiche423]

41. Same here

It makes me envious of those that can leave. I don't want to be here anymore.

To those who say, stay and fight for our country, I reply, I've been fighting since the VN war...

And what good has it done?

[Bridget Burke]

23. The Drama adds to the Anger....

People have always chosen to live outside the country of their birth--permanently or temporarily.

Even my immigrant ancestors mostly came for economic reasons (except for that great-uncle who supposedly left Galway in a cattle boat). Yeah, I could bitch about Evil England--but most of my folks just wanted better jobs.

And I've always thought that emigres had a great lifestyle. Melancholy nostalgia while sitting in the cafe--how romantic!

Folks who have roots in another country & those who are not tied to a job have more options than many of us. Whether they want to live elsewhere because of politics, the weather or family--that's their choice.

Those who choose to leave are NOT cowards. But they are NOT fleeing one step ahead of the jackbooted Nazis, either. I say Bon Voyage--but don't forget to vote absentee!

(I'm at that awkward age. Too old to start over, too young to retire.)

[MadHound]

28. Everybody has different situations, different mindsets, different lives

Some are worried for themselves, or their children and family, and thus choose to leave. Me, I'm too damn stubborn to leave. Its my country too damnit, and I will stay and fight for it. This doesn't mean that those who are leaving are cowards, just that they have different mindsets, different priorities:shrug:

[lonestarnot]

30. Nooooooooooo don't go!

[Vinca]

32. Our reason for a future move to Canada boils down to one thing:

being sick and tired of being pissed off 24/7, 365. What's happening to this country is driving me completely insane. I worry constantly about everything: no health insurance, decline in business, our young ones dying in Iraq or coming back maimed for life, our country killing innocent people, the spreading theocracy (I'm an atheist, so this is a big one), the takeover of the government by corporations, etc., etc. I can't stand it anymore.

[ourbluenation]

35. the delicious part is that ex pats cans still vote! eom

[helderheid]

40. Do they count those votes?

[Lerkfish]

38. IF I leave, it will be because I don't want to put my son in the morgue.

not over some insane person's world domination wet dreams.