(Somewhat) Breaking: Two Duke Players Indicted

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=1852831

*snip*

"Today, two young men have been charged with crimes they did not commit," attorney Robert Ekstrand said in a statement. "This is a tragedy. For the two young men, an ordeal lies ahead. … They are both innocent."

Ekstrand, who represents dozens of players, did not say which players were indicted or what charges they faced.

The grand jury adjourned around 2 p.m. Monday, handing up indictments a short time later to Superior Court Judge Ronald Stephens. A filing at the courthouse said the judge had sealed at least one indictment, citing a state law that allows an indictment to be "kept secret until the defendant is arrested or appears before the court."

[YellowRubberDuckie]

1. DNA doesn't match, but he's going ahead with his case?

This doesn't make sense to me.
Duckie

[wakeme2008]

3. He is running against a Black for re-election... Does that help

:grr:

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JanMichael]

13. Ditto on the sentiment.

:-)

[YellowRubberDuckie]

9. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Let's waste millions of tax dollars to prosecute some kids who didn't do anything to a black stripper just so so that we can win an election against a black person. :eyes:
They have video tape evidence that the chick showed up beat up and completely screwed up. How is he going to get a jury to buy that bs when most juries understand and are convinced by DNA most of the time...and it's something the defense is going to use. :shrug:
Duckie

[wakeme2008]

18. there was a couple paragraphs in one of the NC paper

that he is in a close primary with another Dem running to replace him.

[AllieB]

22. What is up with the flaming face?

[smtpgirl]

Is that a black-eyed Susan?

Cool, I live in MD, so I am a LAX fan, I want to hear more about this case, let's not burn people at the stake

[wakeme2008]

46. When there is a very good possibility that the ONLY reason you charged

somebody was to win points in a political race that rates a grr smilie.

[AllieB]

49. So the hoopla around the alleged incident is political grandstanding?

Did you just read that there are indictments, and two of the suspects are being held on $400,000 bail? It is extremely rare that a rape case would warrant such high bail. They must have some kind of evidence that they're not sharing with the media, or some of the other players did the right thing and told the authorities what really happened.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. I'm Not Sure What Other Evidence They Have Either.

Day by day it really seemed their case was falling apart. They have to have something on the two players though you would think, if they picked just two out of the whole group to go after. No idea what they got though, all the evidence presented so far has been extremely weak. But if these 2 guys did it, then I hope to hell they rot for it. If they didn't, then I'm sure the evidence will disintegrate as the rest of it had. We shall see I guess.

[JanMichael]

15. Um you weren't, or are not, on the grand jury.

How the hell do you know what the evidence was? The shit that the media put out which is heresy?

[AllieB]

25. I'm amazed at the number of psychics on DU

why aren't they volunteering their services to the Raleigh-Durham police? Apparently they have some special knowledge of the event that no one else is privy to. :-)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. Jesus What Are You Two Talking About?

I didn't post anything provocative, so why the need for illegitimate mockery?

The evidence that had been brought forth publicly had all basically been weak so far and would never have been enough for their case to be solid in court. I never said they didn't have other evidence NOT presented publicly and have maintained an open mind throughout this entire ordeal. In fact, I even said though I have no idea what they have, that they must have some good evidence in order to have gone for these 2 indictments. So please, if you have time, come down off that high horse, for I fear you may hurt yourself...

[JanMichael]

35. The fact, fact, that there are few FACTS available to the wannabee...

...Judges and Jurists on DU that have ANYTHING to do with the sealed Grand Jury indictments.

Conjecture, it's not just for breakfast anymore here, is it?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Why The Hell Did You Respond To Me Then?

I offered no speculation whatsoever on what the content would've been, as there is no way to know. I actually assumed it must be substantial in order for them to have gone after the 2 players. So next time, respond to those that erred against you, rather than someone who didn't.

[JanMichael]

39. You offered speculation.

"Day by day it really seemed their case was falling apart. They have to have something on the two players though you would think, if they picked just two out of the whole group to go after. No idea what they got though, all the evidence presented so far has been extremely weak. But if these 2 guys did it, then I hope to hell they rot for it. If they didn't, then I'm sure the evidence will disintegrate as the rest of it had. We shall see I guess"

You are offering the the defence speculation or can you not read your own writing? The one "hope to hell they rot for it" is classic CYA as well as the " we shall see".

The rest is the dengration of the prosecution hence the victim and I called you on that.

Yes, we shall see, I'm just tired of the successful elite/rich Duke defence effort to play this event out in public which has given armchair DU "attorneys" so much media driven ammo.

Ciao.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. Oh Get A Grip. That Wasn't Speculation, It Was Fact.

Anyone who thinks what's been presented in PUBLIC so far has been strong for the prosecution, needs to really get a grip on reality.

I have no preconceived notions on this case. I definitely need more information at this point, which I'm sure will be forthcoming in the future. Regardless, though, there is nothing wrong with commenting on what has been presented publicly. And what has been presented, has been weak at best. I'm not saying that because I side with the defense, because at this point I side with no one. It is just merely deductive fact based on what's been presented. There may very well be stronger evidence not yet presented and I will AGAIN state that I presume that to be the case. So whatever dude.

[JanMichael]

43. Get your own grip. Public commentary on the case is bullshit at best.

Manipulitive an jury screwing (My guess is an attempt to poison the local jury pool via media to get the case moved.) at worse.

And DUer opinions are silly conjecture at best.

I, as you, will just have to shut the fuck up, sit the hell down, lighten the shit sideways, and see what the reality of the case may be. Because I know that this is the mostest importantest casest in the worldest andest we all payest so muchest attentionest to every rapest casest everyest dayest.

Cuz we don't know any better that than dirt what really happened. "Public" presentation by either side be damned.

What's the difference between a dead dog in the road and dead attorney?

Skid marks for the dog.

Right back at ya':-)

PS~ Why All The Stupid Fucking Caps? Is That A "Clever" Way Of Talking Down To People?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

48. "I... ... will just have to shut the fuck up"

Now THAT would be a refreshing change of pace...

[AllieB]

37. I wasn't implying that you weren't open-minded

I was referring to some of the other posters who are drawn to this topic like flypaper, and have already made up their minds.

Like you, I'm waiting for the facts, and I think it's good that they are keeping the facts quiet for the sake of a fair trial.

[fishwax]

42. I thought he stated pretty clearly that he doesn't know

what the evidence was.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Was DNA found?

I've read so many posts on this issue, I've gotten confused. Some posts I've read say no DNA was found, others that the DNA didn't match the Duke players.

But the DA apparently had enough evidence to convince the Grand Jury.

[Inland]

11. I heard there wasn't DNA trace evidence at all.

Therefore it's not like there was semen or whatnot belonging to someone else. It could be they didn't leave a trace.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

12. I've heard both...but i've heard more that the dna didn't match...

But that he was going to go on with the prosecution anyway.
Duckie

[etherealtruth]

20. I think that's from the mouths of the defense ...

It would defy reason for a prosecutor to seek charges if the evidence pointed in a completely different direction (if DNA evidence was present and indicated another individual)

[JanMichael]

17. Look up how many rape cases have usable DNA.

Doesn't mean there wasn't rape. The fact is that DNA is NOT the only real evidence!

[Inland]

19. That's what I'm saying.

I thought the DA said, that the lack of DNA simply meant the rapists didn't leave a trace. He didn't get graphic, but there's plenty of ways to not leave DNA.

[JanMichael]

27. Misunderstanding. That's cool.

This is a case where the blame the victim crowd has me on a hair trigger.

[Inland]

31. Well, I'm making no judgment whatsoever.

I'm not saying there IS a victim. I was just talking about what the DA and the players' attorneys were saying about DNA. I have no idea what happened in there.

[etherealtruth]

16. I'm sketchy on the details ...

Was there DNA present in body fluids that didn't match? Did the (accused) rapists wear condoms and leave no body fluids ... ? So many questions that can't be answered by the statement "there is no DNA match"

I need a lot more info to form an opinion.

[lectrobyte]

38. It's possible to be raped and not have DNA present.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

50. I never said it wasn't possible...

I was just telling you what I heard.
Duckie

[AllieB]

2. Here we go again

:popcorn:

[Jigarotta]

4. hate wordless links, so here it is.

ABC News
Two Duke Lacrosse Players Indicted
Grand Jury Issues Sealed Indictments Against Two Duke Lacrosse Players in Alleged Rape Case
Bob Ekstrand, center, a defense attorney representing dozens of Duke lacrosse players, walks to the office of Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong at the Durham County Judicial Building in Durham, N.C., Monday, April 17, 2006. (AP Photo/Jeffrey A. Camarati)


By TIM WHITMIRE
DURHAM, N.C. Apr 17, 2006 (AP)— A grand jury issued sealed indictments Monday against two members of the Duke University lacrosse team in connection with allegations that a stripper was raped last month at a team party, a defense attorney said.

"Today, two young men have been charged with crimes they did not commit," attorney Robert Ekstrand said in a statement. "This is a tragedy. For the two young men, an ordeal lies ahead. … They are both innocent."

Ekstrand, who represents dozens of players, did not say which players were indicted or what charges they faced.
The grand jury adjourned around 2 p.m. Monday, handing up indictments a short time later to Superior Court Judge Ronald Stephens. A filing at the courthouse said the judge had sealed at least one indictment, citing a state law that allows an indictment to be "kept secret until the defendant is arrested or appears before the court."

A 27-year-old black woman told police she was attacked March 13 by three white men in a bathroom at a party held by the lacrosse team.
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.





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[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. Firstly, I Have The Words There. Secondly, You Are Not Supposed To Post

more than 3 paragraphs, so you should really edit your post (though it isn't really necessary anymore anyway)

[Jigarotta]

14. okay, I saw before your edit.

I thought it was 4 paragraphs.
no matter, thanks for the link.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. No Prob.

I put the body text in there literally within 10 seconds of clicking post message. You must have come in right at the wrong moment LOL

Sorry bout that.

[Neil Lisst]

7. it's gotta be the two who left DNA on a towel in the bathroom

[etherealtruth]

23. I thought it took the police a "couple' of days ...

...to get around to surveying the scene and collecting evidence (?)

If that is the case who knows what was present?

[Neil Lisst]

24. true

Truthfully, with that many guys, I'd expect at least two of them to need a towel after watching the dance described.

I'll be interested to see what the charges are.

[etherealtruth]

26. "yep" n/t

[countingbluecars]

28. Perhaps there is eyewitness testimony.

IF she truly was raped, perhaps a party attendee with a conscience answered police honestly. We really don't know.

[Inland]

30. Or the alleged victim is testifying credibly.

That could be enough to send the matter to trial, IMO.

[Lerkfish]

32. if we'll recall, the search warrant was for video equipment and cameras

among other things. Its possible that the rape, if it occurred, was captured on tape.

[AX10]

29. On what grounds?

[JanMichael]

34. It's a sealed indictment.

Wait. It's part of the judicial system.

Or are you an attorney that's got something worthwhile to add sans details?

Conjecture is a beautiful thing...

[FredScuttle]

40. So nice to get some news without the defense spin.....er, ah...

Shit. Here we go again.

At least the defense isn't making a public demand of a rape victim to recant and apologize to her rapists.

[JanMichael]

44. Don't do it! OMC will post you silly!

Seriously.

[Neil Lisst]

45. indictment doesn't mean much in terms of the facts

Especially when the DA has the ability to cheery pick the data available to him, and feed the grand jury those things that seem to support his theory.

It means these two guys will have to either get this dismissed or go to trial, of course, but not much regarding guilt or innocence. We know the DA wanted to indict.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

47. Wait and see.

I'm not sure whether I've been more disgusted by the flood of posts arguing that the men are obviously guilty and all sports players are rapists and scum, or the answering flood claiming that they're obviously innocent and that the woman is a lying whore.

I've been as appalled as I am by either by the amount of coverage it's received, though. It's in no way in the public interest, it's simply an attempt to sell more papers by scandal-mongering.

We don't have enough facts to pass judgement either way. Leave it to the jury to sort it out. When the men have been aquitted or convicted, then if we really want we can pontificate about the case, but even then I'm not sure it's worth it.

No matter who's telling the truth, the lives of all concerned have already been blighted by the incident, and the coverage its' received will further discourage other women from coming forwards with claims of rape.