A very important analysis.Please Read .

[undergroundpanther]

For beginning in the 17th century the sort of self-exaltation that flows naturally from the gnostic solution for absolving God suddenly began to erupt in a deeply Christian and democratic impulse expressed in successive repudiations of established notions of higher sovereignty. Accordingly, we can track the “locus of sovereignty,” so to speak, as it cascades downward in levels from God, to Kings, to aristocrats and elites, to “the people” as divine, where it is summed up in the phrase Vox Populi Vox Dei.<13>
But this downward movement has not stopped, and there is great irony in the fact that the contemporary, and likely final resting place of sovereignty under modern hyperdemocracy<14> has now moved beyond the “demos”, or people, and is located deep within the autonomous individual.<15> We are frequent witnesses to how this new and formidable gnostic sovereignty is dignified in constitutionally-entrenched abstract language about freedom, choice, equality, and rights, and increasingly upheld against the people and their communities.<16>



http://www.williamgairdner.com/hyperdemocracy-and-the-gnostic/

This guy might be onto something...
FYI Voegelin routinely switches around words and meanings in his writings So,for some it can look confusing sometimes even offensive or like Voegelin is just silly or something,but really it gets you thinking and defuses buzzwords. IA useful techique. This wrier commenting on Voegelin has made some fascinating observations very damn relavent to US.

[Redstone]

1. Well, OK, sure, fine. Whatever he says. Or whatever you say.

In whatever language you might be saying it in, because it doesn't sound like English to me.

Not to be insulting, but that's some damn dense prose right there. Translating it into understandable English might help people understand whatever the hell it is that you're trying to say. Just a suggestion.

Redstone

[undergroundpanther]

4. This writer

is talking about a clash of worldveiws that could be motivating how society is being manipulated by elites who are also manipulated but in a different style.

How else do you explain the almost insane APATHY and submissiveness of so many Americans to the right? I can't so easy . However pointing to a strange mutated form of 2 ancient worldveiws Politicized and playing off each other that they are barely concious of it can really mess up society? And what of the elistist INDIVIDUALISM of this idealized self made Omnipotent individual with sociopathic'ethics' running around trying to control and use up everyone else for "christ" the..hypocrites? How do these two disparate yet kind of mixing worldveiws undermine safety and sanity and upset how we cope in our societies with each other and how does the elites in exploiting christian and gnostic world veiws politically destroy any real democracy and equality and do it in the name of Democracy of all things?

The People as soverign kings each one or is it Devine right of kings?
Depends how rich and elite you are sometimes in which type of skewing your worldveiw takes.

Do you believe in the public belief system of the people,? Of self-exaltation, atheism, moral relativism, social determinism, scientism, pantheism, the elevation of individual rights over responsibilities and duties to society you live within.. The political embodiment of pessimism. OR do you indulge in extremely political and optimistic features of secular-millenarianism(the magical invisible hand of the free market is all wise) Beliefs that the world tends to become better and that humans can aid its betterment.(As in humans can overcome any problems) collectivist politics,(all is one) progressivism,(public policies that they believe would lead to positive social change. the political cult of the personality,(clinton was such a personality) New World Order talk,(A new world one nation of bnations united) and a highly tax and debt-leveraged manipulation and regulation of national, and even world masses to these ends.(cheap labor republicans.

The result is that the democratic will has been made apathetic to the suffering in the world(action wise) It appears like (Can't fight city hall or defy the powers that be ,or break the law even if lawbreakers are writing the law we complain but we can't DO anything.)
This kind of apathy has made a part of the democratic contingent toocomprimising with unelected millenarian visionary nutcases.(Bush and his neocons rewriting reality for thier own ends)And Why doesen't the Congress Impreach? Tell the Truth about the voting Machines,Denounce Bush for Abu Gharib and lying us into war? Because they think they cannot do anything anyway,'they can't fix the world,and should not BOTHER.

The Balance of worldviews in our culture has been shifted. Those veiws of progressivism have twisted the idea of positive slow changes into a form of insane optimistic reactionism.Bad russhed policies that don't square with reality all for making a 'legacy' for one'man'(cult of personalities bush and christ)and so the original catalyst of positive change was upward as in the people demanding it, of the state has reversed and now is imposed by the warped "elites" imposing thier desires upon us... It comes out in the form of this Neocon millnialist cabal wanting to take over the world and make america a 'christian nation"and a full spectrum dominator empire.And the people are too apathetic to create a sound poososition because of what they BELIEVE about the nature of god and reality may be thrown into a cognitive cristis.

The elitist selfishness and apathy twords others suffering,the shallow self aggrandizing self in consumerism,adorments and decadence and cultural crassness has migrated from elitism down to us and this sickness of privelege has interfered with our ability to defy state authority and hindered the ability of people to trust each other enough to form solidarity with each other..


"In other words, democracy has been hi-jacked, or rather, efficiently contained for ideological purposes."

BIG TIME.

[bloom]

9. It does seem

that there is something to the idea that globalization - and branding - and that sort of thing - removes/erodes individuality and community.


And I was reading something recently that was written in the 50's and 60's. The author was very concerned about totalitarianism - following WWII and all - and saw Christianity as the answer. It seems that the Bushbots STILL see Christianity as the answer even as "BushasChristian" has co-opted it for his totalitarian ends.


I hope this relates some to your post - it's where I saw it going.

[undergroundpanther]

10. Think of bush as

A TOTALLY Autonomous individual .,. Someone not bound by ethics,poverty,law,compassion for others,his own decency,self worth,loyalties to freinds,or popularity..A totally autonomous individual in an Interdependant interrelated world would be a sociopath.
All societies in order to co-exist together and relate safely need agreed upon boundaries and limits . Ones we put on ourselves and ones we put on each other to ensure the society functions .
Boundaries are the protective foundation for ANY kind of fair society based in any notion of a democracy that strives twords equality and maximum benifiets for all involved. The Bill of rights and consitution are BOUNDARY making social documents. Bush is too "autonomous" He is breaking boudaries with the "unitary executive" (one king idea)Among other things.Ans Americans are too individualistic and atomized to care about what happens to some homeless guy or other 'outsider' unless it is in THIER own backyard..

All societies striving for maximum welfare of all members are based in putting boundaries upon'autonomous' individuals.Imposing an expectation of mutual cooperation and mutual agreement is how equality is rooted. We all need to have socially defined limits on individual conduct . Without social boundaries upon the most manipulating,charismatic,over- ambitious melomaniacal or sociopathic individuals among us. Society will become so atmized solidarity is impossible while other segments of the very fortunate and unfortunate will move the middle into fascism or other horrors of the state or you have warlords, corrupt Ogliarches, a bunch of ruthless personality and abuse of power like Vlad the Impaler or Ghengis Khan.



"But this downward movement has not stopped, and there is great irony in the fact that the contemporary, and likely final resting place of sovereignty under modern hyperdemocracy<14> has now moved beyond the “demos”, or people, and is located deep within the autonomous individual."

"Autonomus individual" in this case is a charismatic popular Sociopath.

* "They begin in Bondage. They then go from Bondage to Spiritual Faith. With that Spiritual Faith they develop great Courage. That Great Courage leads to Liberty. Liberty then leads to Abundance. Abundance then leads to Selfishness. This Selfishness then leads to Complacency. The Complacency grows into Apathy. Apathy then degenerates into Dependence. This Dependence brings them full circle back into Bondage."Tyler wrote of great civilizations

As in..Bound under an Autnomous individual who is not bound by law,ethics,social convention or anything else,a charismatic sociopath.

[Redstone]

14. Thanks for the translation. Your writing, I can understand.

So the guy is saying something that's correct and deserves to be paid attention to. If his style were a bit less dense, or if he would filter it through you, it might get the attention it deserves.

Again, thanks for taking the time to translate.

Redstone

[Erika]

2. Well

Barbara Bush does claim to be a blue blooded royal elite Christian.

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. I hope nobody is paying this moron for this crap!

"But this downward movement has not stopped, and there is great irony in the fact that the contemporary, and likely final resting place of sovereignty under modern hyperdemocracy<14> has now moved beyond the “demos”, or people, and is located deep within the autonomous individual."

LOL! A more hilarious bit of nonsense I have not heard in many a moon!

[undergroundpanther]

6. Induh Viduality

The Autonomous Individual is the problem .. here..In case you forgot..Bush is playing a Induhvidual as KING. And Because America is ATOMIZED and so focused on INDIVIDUALITY socially,we are unable to"congeal" Our social community has been undermined,and for some reason( maybe the lack of an issue that matters enough to a diverse bunch of individuals(because they are too individualistic) cannot bring us together enough to create enough solidarity to oppose a rouge state of BUsh) We democrats cannot for some reason make an effective opposition because to appeal to "community" things like a strong social safety net and helping the poor OFFENDS the individuals (libertarian types) who think paying for anyone else's' welfare erodes their own power..
Don'cha Get it?

[Vinnie From Indy]

13. That is what I thought the passage was trying to convey.

I disagree however with the statement. I think that "power" moved from the "demos" a while back in America to the multi-national conglomerates. Smirky is just a figurehead that is trotted out by the business interests that run our country. Their God is money and they have no allegiance to any country or ideology. I believe the best description of power in America is an oligarchy of gargantuan business interests. The American political system is merely another acquisition.



Individuality is what makes life a textured experience! Your writing does display a wonderful use of vocabulary and a flowing, poetical style. Sorry about the moron comment. Rock on !

[mmonk]

5. Strange analysis. Hard to follow.

Democracy predates Gnosticism, Christianity and all predate the 17th century.

[undergroundpanther]

7. Yes

It is hard to follow. But the essentals underneath amount to two different divergent worldveiws. On one hand you want to create a utopia,do you believe you can change the world kinda optimistic? Or do you think it's hopeless and you might as well screw ethics and fiddle while rome burns 'cause it's bound to? That kind of thinking can be found in both democratic progressivist ideas or fascism or public apathy..depending on the perspective you have yourself concerning why bad thinbgs happen to good people,and if the world is evil or you are evil by nature.It leads that way if you take it all apart..

[Draill]

8. Interesting read.

Thanks, undergroundpanther.

[Ksec]

11. you lost me in the first sentence

I have trouble with confusing reads. This is very confusing. Maybe you could do a nutshell summation..

[undergroundpanther]

12. Basically,

I agree it is hard to follow. But the essentals I see right now are about how underneath society there is a clash of two different divergent worldveiws .2 worldveiws about why the world is the way it is,about supernatural causes of why it is how it is, and why bad things happen to good people ..being Politicized. And the article discribes some of the strange effects on society and the effects of said politicized worldveiws on people when they clash or are used to manipulate in a cultural and hierachical context.Basically the artical seems to be outlining one of the ways how democracy is working against and dependant on sustaining certain worldveiws in individuals..Can it be dome without undemining social boundaries and(christian VS Gnostic)..by polticizing these worldveiws into "idealogies"..