CNN: Scientists dig up million-year-old ice cube

[matt819]

There seem to be tons of stories recently regarding finds from millions of years ago. This one is from CNN today -- http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/04/18/old.ice.reut/index.html. Last week there was a story of the possible missing link between sea life and a walking creature on land. You get the idea.

How do the creationists and literalists deal with these sorts of issues. Carbon dating is wrong? That missing link is a fraud? Those Japanese scientists have been drinking too much sake?

I don't know about you folks, but I'd have a real hard time living with these sorts of inconsistencies and reality-based conflicts.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

1. just discount them as crazy theories...

and then you can easily continue to believe in the invisible man in the sky.

Now, was that really so difficult?

[Clark2008]

15. You know, MOST Christians don't believe the world is only

6,000 years old. And most of us STILL believe in evolution and that the Bible is a work of parables written so that the average person could understand the miracle of God.

But, you keep sniping at the majority of Americans (and the majority of humans, since MOST believe in a God of some form) and treating us as stupid, OK? You keep "preaching" that "liberal" tolerance that accepts that your belief isn't the only one that's correct, OK?

:eyes:

Unreal.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

16. I believe in "God" as some form...

but it doesn't remotely resemble the accounts in the Bible.

That's why we aren't Repugs... we don't toe the "party line" :)

My post was "tongue in cheek". Sorry you didn't catch that. :(

[Generic Other]

2. My fundie math professor said his god was powerful enough to

leave phony carbon dating evidence just to confuse us.

Needless to say, I did not get a very high grade in that class.

[TahitiNut]

5. With that kind of 'reasoning,' I'd be afraid to get a passing grade.

After all, if 'his god' is both that powerful and that malicious/dishonest then who can say that the entire Universe wasn't 'created' 1 second ago and all 'memories' and 'evidence' were 'created' in situ? Indeed, just pick a time and that's when It Happened. Or even more, maybe Time itself is merely a delusion - one Big Joke.

Freaking morans! :grr: :eyes:

[Generic Other]

6. I had that reaction every time he gave a test--utter confusion!

The guy was really scary. And since I already wasn't a good math student, he didn't make it any better.

It really was awful.

[Xeric]

7. God is a real kidder

[Generic Other]

12. Oh my god, he was telling the truth

It was all a test. And I failed. ARRRRGHHHH!!

:rofl:

[PublicWrath]

3. A popular creationist theory in the 19th cent. explained that:

Just as Adam was created "perfect" and therefore had a navel even though he didn't have a mother, earth was created "perfect" with a fake geological history, dinosaur fossils, etc. And there you have it. It's all a divine hoax.

Sad,isn't?

[nonconformist]

4. I've heard a few rationalizations

Most notably, that carbon dating is wrong, or that God put this evidence on Earth to test our faith.

jah.

[Dogmudgeon]

8. Why worry about Creationists?

I still see a lot of concern about "Scientific Creationists" around here, but they aren't even credible to most Fundies. The widely-quoted statistics about their "belief" often fail to show it's a mile wide and an inch deep. Most will claim to believe in Young Earth theories because their pastors tell them the ideas are Biblical, but when a theologian with a better appreciation for both the Pentateuch and Science sets them straight, the theories evaporate.

They even switched to Intelligent Design -- actually, more of an appropriation than a name-change. That little two-step has also failed. They didn't have the intellectual chops to actually develop their own special theory of Intelligent Design, so they stole what they wanted from the theorists and theologians who did the original work in the subject without demanding a gold-plated government teat of their very own.

The Creationism industry had less than 100 heavy hitters in its heyday, all of whom struck out. ID appears to be getting by on about a dozen who are dragging older, non-fanatical, and non-fundamentalist theorists into their nonsense. Just because the Press would have you believe that it's some sort of "Fair and Balanced" deal, it's still just a small number of political hard-asses waving the cross of Jeebus like it was a magic wand.

That's because Creationism isn't about science, or even about Christianity. It's about the venial power-lust of a few so-called "Christian" theocratic entrepreneurs. Not only is it a dog that won't hunt, but the dog also wants to poop on your carpet and make your kids clean it up -- and get a paycheck for improving the carpet and the kids alike.

It's easy to fight Creationism in the schools, and doesn't even require that you learn how to "debunk" it, a process that was easily accomplished twenty years ago. Simply pointing out that the argument really isn't about "fairness in science", but about shoe-horning the particular religion of some local power-seeker into the schools, is easily understood.

Nobody teaching science is trying to brainwash children into believing in a godless one-world socialist worldview; they're merely teaching an accepted theory that explains a lot of disparate evidence. The indoctrinators are the religionizers who have again twisted Science, the Bible, and peoples' good faith in human nature to their own profit -- ego, power, and money. The Late Great J.C. Himself had a few choice words for people like them.

The spirit of Elmer Gantry lives on. The best way to deal with it is to call it what it is -- a sloppy power grab dressed up in a stolen lab coat and a counterfeit ID tag that reads "Dr. Jesus" on it.

That's not to say that there isn't a real threat of some of the ratbags grabbing the reins of power here and there. My point is that it's impossible to go wrong understanding Creationists as peddlers of inferior goods and mendacious mythologies that should offend Christians and non-Christians alike. Dickering over abstract points of fairness and scientific protocol are worthless -- just throw the bums out of the temple.

--p!
Who actually likes dogs.

[mike_c]

13. now wait just a minute-- I'm a professor of zoology...

...and I'm certainly doing my best to teach "a godless one-world socialist worldview!" :rofl:

All kidding aside, great post!

[leftofthedial]

9. scientists just make stuff up

there is no million-year-old ice because the earth is only 6000 years old

[mike_c]

10. we have contests to see who can get away with the biggest whopper....

Did you know that there is a fish in the Amazon that will swim up your urethra and get stuck there if you pee while wading in the water? How about-- did you know that the mitochondria in your cells, and the chloroplasts in plant cells, were once free living bacteria, then symbiotes, and now they've taken up permanent residence. OK, how about this one-- the earth is over four billion years old, and it isn't flat!

[leftofthedial]

11. I call bullshit

if the world isn't flat, why does a ball lay on the ground without rolling. See, your "science" doesn't make any sense at all.

[magellan]

14. It's possible to explain everything by Divine Intervention

But if every human being had continued to shrug at the mysteries of the world and put them down to an invisible entity, we'd still be living in caves.

We are where we are because down through history, courageous people chose to find and embrace FACT.

[Cleita]

17. I thought Ann Coulter was still walking around. n/t