A post from Durham

[Alcibiades]

I live in Durham, and I’d like to apologize for yet another rape case post, but I think the MSM and even some posters here are missing some key aspects of this case. My slight qualifications to write on this issue are that I attended a college with a top-notch lacrosse program, and I know what these “boys” (read: over-muscled, over-privileged ignoramuses) are like.

One thing is that there has been a focus on town/gown relations, and between Duke and NCCU, the historically black university attended by the victim. That’s only part of the story. Usually, when there are allegations of racism in the south, you would expect some good old boy to be the perpetrator. In this case, however, the accused are non-southerners. One, Reade Seligman, attended Delbarton in Morris County, New Jersey, and the other, Collin H. Finnerty, attended Chaminade High on Lon Guyland.

Duke wants to be like the ivies (or better, if possible), which means having a top-notch lacrosse team. Only a handful of high schools, mainly in the northeast but extending down to the mid-Atlantic (i.e. Maryland and Virginia) produce top-notch lacrosse players. For example, Delbarton alone has five alums, including Seligman, on the Duke roster.

Both Delbarton and Chaminade High are all-male, Catholic institutions. The racism in this case has little to do with the South, but is an artifact of northeastern, elite, white male privilege. As a southern man, I would never, ever, ever do what they did in this case. Even racist southerners know better. We know this kind of hatred has the capacity to tear our communities apart, that this kind of incident can literally burn our cities to the ground. Black folks are our neighbors. It’s not a Nirvana of tolerance and understanding, but the politics of race in the south has at least simmered down to a level of live and let live.

There’s been a lot of finger-pointing at Duke, which is appropriate, given that the administration had previously had to warn the coach about other incidents involving his team, yet nothing was apparently done at the time. There has been little discussion about why the girls were invited to the party to begin with. What I have heard is that the party was a variant of the “pig party,” the object of which is usually to bring the ugliest date, except this time the girls were dancers, hired for the express purpose of racial mockery.

If this is the kind of thing these “boys” do in college, we can only imagine how they will comport themselves later in life, when their high-powered Duke degrees entitle them to jobs with responsibility, including hiring responsibility. I bet that women and minorities as a whole do not get ahead when these sorts of “boys” are allowed into power.

Even the KKK didn’t do this. Why has there been no finger-pointing at the all-male, Catholic institutions that spawned these little monsters? Such a place is not the sort of place where one is able to learn sensitivity to women, let alone people of other races. Lacrosse aside, why is it that students from a Delbarton or a Chaminade High has a better chance of getting into Duke than someone who attended Durham Public Schools? Supposedly, it’s because these schools are better academically, but it should be clear by now that, whatever these schools are teaching, they are not preparing these young men for life in 21st century America. I think it is high time that Duke, and other schools, redefined what a truly “elite” university should be. Take all those 40+ spots and give them to local students, preferably black students.

[mmonk]

1. 21st century I gather you mean.

[Alcibiades]

6. Nope, 20th century America

Let alone 21st century America. Heck, they wouldn't even be equipped to deal with late 19th century America!

[mmonk]

7. While true, I was just using the context of the post.

[Alcibiades]

8. I know

I should be used to this here new century. Edited to fix, thanks.

[mmonk]

9. no problem.

[YDogg]

2. Perhaps the best post I've read on this topic. Thanks.

[donsu]

3. kicking truth to power

nt

[Neil Lisst]

4. It appears that they are fortunate sons, with elitist attitudes.

There is no suggestion they asked for black dancers, or knew they were coming, so that part of the theory has a problem.

Generally speaking, I would expect Lacrosse players at Duke to a bunch of real assholes, fully capable of doing things that are racist or sexist. But for a rape conviction, there will have to be evidence that makes the case beyond eye witness testimony.

[Alcibiades]

12. There's this

Another Delbarton alum on the Duke lacrosse team apparently sent an e-mail endorsing the mutilation of Black dancers before the party. Perhaps it was the inspiration for the party, or inspired by the news that it was planned?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/05/national/main1476021.shtml

[Neil Lisst]

14. That happened AFTER the event, not before

Unless there is something that specifically ties the email into the events, it will never see the trial, except in the LIMINE ORDER of things not to be mentioned.

[Alcibiades]

20. Thanks

I was mistaken about the sequence. Still, no matter what happens at trial, it's pretty damning in the court of public opinion, and hopefully it will wake some people up at Duke and the sorts of prep schools these "boys" attended.

[Neil Lisst]

21. I am very concerned about the young man who wrote that.

Likewise, the young man accused in this matter with the prior arrest for beating some gay guy. They both need a serious look, and may be guilty of bad things.

I have plenty of opinions preconceived about young men of privilege with bad attitudes, but I don't pull the trigger on guilt before the convincing evidence is seen.

The guys are Lacrosse players at Duke and the accuser is a dancer who puts on private shows. Rape could have happened there, or it might not have happened there. Only those who were in the bathroom know what happened in the bathroom.

[Alcibiades]

30. True

which is why I tried to limit the post to the party itself, and events that are not denied, rather than whether a rape took place.

Nothing gives these guys from their all-white neighborhoods in the suburbs of New York the right to come down here to their $40,000 a year school and yell "n*gger" at passersby. Not in my city. We have come too far for this kind of poop.

[BrownOak]

38. Don't be concerned

It's a play on the movie American Psycho, based on the book by Bret Easton Ellis. Replies to the email allegedly referenced Phil Collins music which is another part of the movie.

It's clear that it's supposed to be a joke, albeit on in bad taste.

[mmonk]

5. One problem with your post.

Catholicism isn't a 'white" religion.

[Alcibiades]

13. It is at Delbarton

Full disclosure--I also happen to have visited the Delbarton campus, and know some alums. It is an all-male, nearly all-white institution for rich boys, with enough tokenism to accomodate modern legal realities.

Didn't mean to imply that Catholic=white, not even sure the accused (i.e. Seligman isn't a typical surname for Catholics) are Catholic. It's about all-male, mainly white schools, really, of which Catholic schools are a subset.

[mmonk]

15. OK

It's just living here in the south, I know the misconceptions. My Church in nearby Raleigh is Catholic and quite multi-racial.

[Triana]

10. those sorts of "boys" are already in power....

just look at the White House and Little Lord Pissypants and what's been going on in this country for the past 5 years. These "men" who run this country have the same attitudes. They're not all white, privileged northeasterners (GWB certainly is regardless that he ended up in Texas) but their attitudes are very similar (racist, sexist, violent) and they are in charge of this country.

THAT is indeed scary.

[nashville_brook]

24. "Brooks Brothers Rioters"

[marions ghost]

37. same type

this just MAY be why so many around here are sensitized to this case. We are being abused by this same type of individual--by those who feel "entitled" to run roughshod over others anytime they feel like it. Regardless of whether rape is proven in this case, we know by other indicators that these
boys would make equally scary leaders as our current govt.

[bloom]

11. Lots of good points there

I absolutely see a connection between the white, male privilege and what is going on in politics, and business. The same sorts of attitudes.

I do know of Catholic men who use their religion as an excuse to be assholes.

I think the main point you are making, though, is that we should be considering who we are rewarding in this country and on what basis. Because the current system is ridiculous.

(And "pig" parties are the height of depravity. That any one could feel good about themselves for participating in such a thing is beyond me.)

[tatertop]

16. Yes, " "pig" parties are the height of depravity"

That is the first time I have seen that mentioned.

[Alcibiades]

18. A caller

to the local NPR station (whose son is at Duke) brought that up on the air a couple of hours ago, and it rings true with me.

[Alcibiades]

17. Catholicism isn't really the issue

and I'm sorry if my inclusion of the fact that both schools are Catholic might have led anyone to think that religion is really part of my argument. (Though perhaps it should be, the conduct of these young men is way out of line with church teachings on the subject.)

But, as you point out, the issue of RICH (a critical factor) white male privilege.

The schools could be secular for all I care, but I do think these sorts of all-male, all-rich schools prepare students poorly, particularly with regard to questions of social/gender justice-and apparently human decency, generally.

[mmonk]

19. Don't worry. Your points are clear

and not obscured.

[mitchtv]

22. Finnerty has a record of anti gay activity

for which he had to do community service. Catholicism excuses hateful acts like that, or at least turns a blind eye and spouts hate. Don't be so quick to exonerate The Church

[bobalu]

26. I'm sorry but, having been raised catholic I have to take issue

with your statement that Catholicism would "excuse" such an act or even "turn a blind eye" towards it.

I spent 12 years in Catholic schools and never heard them "spew hate" about anybody, to tell you the truth.
I'm not a fan of their positions on certain issues(how they've handled the pedophile priests thing, for instance), but they do NOT espouse violence or hate last time I looked.

..Fred "I hate fags" Phelps is no Catholic.

[mitchtv]

27. raised in 12 yrs nuns and brothers

in catholic schools in a catholic neighborhood ( the sin even Christ couldn't forgive) is what was taught about homosexuality. Gay bashing was a sport never addressed from the pulpit. Current language from the Vatican qualifies as hate speech

[bobalu]

29. i'm sorry but I disagree...I don't see that their position

on homosexuality differs much (if at all) from mainstream protestantism.

[bloom]

31. From what I've noticed

Catholic churches can vary as much as DU & the FreeRepublic - and they are often at one extreme or the other.

[Alcibiades]

32. It's not my intent

to exonerate the church. They ran the schools both these boys attended, and they share some culpability for their development.

Still, I don't think religion is the issue, or at least the main one. The issue is how affluent parents crowd their kids into these so-called elite, one-gender schools, with (for the most part) people exactly like themselves, which has the side-effect that many of these "boys" don't know how to get along with others. I cannot, for example, imagine white kids from Durham Public Schools doing this (the party, setting aside the rape allegations for a moment.)

Still, the all-male priesthood, the history of misogyny, all that may play a part. with a billion Catholics who have such varied views, I didn't want to generalize--the population of elite, all-male prep schools, however, is a much more limited group (Catholic or not). I only mentioned that they are catholic schools because--make of it what you will--they are.

I do know a gay kid who went to Delbarton. He had some problems with the other students, to put it mildly. Once again, racism and homophobia seem to go together, but I'm not sure that's a Catholic issue--we've got plenty of Protestants down here, white and black, for whom homophobia is an issue.

[BrownOak]

39. That's actually not 100% clear...

It's widely assumed that Finnerty beat up a gay man. According to the reports though, the victim told Finnerty and two of his friends to stop "calling him gay and ... derogatory names" upon which they beat him up. So it's not clear if Finnerty is the kind of asshole who beats up gay guys, or if he's the kind of asshole who beats up random guys and thinks that calling someone gay is an insult. Either way, there is a common theme here, he's an asshole.

[Blue_In_AK]

35. There was a good "Cold Case" episode a while back

about a "pig" party. A terrible, terrible phenomenon that shouldn't go unpunished, IMO.

[me b zola]

23. Insightful post. n/t

[nashville_brook]

25. GREAT POST

i 'know' these guys too. The Brooks Brothers. you can't not do business in nashville without doing business with 'these guys.' they send their kids to elite private schools (that offer lacrosse) and piss on the local system. they have law degrees or finance degrees or law degrees. :) they have no sense of personal greatest that doesn't involve a party invite. they are beyond money. they don't worry about money. they collect people. attend the swan ball. golf at belle meade.

what's worse than the brooks bros types? the brooks bros WANNABES. I've been sandwiched in between these two social groups since i came to nashville. Vandy, btw. and it's not like i haven't worked at the 'alt weeky.' i have and take that FWIW. it was the paper here in nashville that built the money deal that bought the village voice and LA weekly.

here's the thing about the Wannabees -- they have no ideology. they snuggle up to these lizards only for the thrill. neither group has 'religion.' neither group has alleigence. it's all a state of nature.

'boorish' behavior -- Duke has been after these guys for 'boorish' behavior for a year now. that's a euphemism for The New American Psycho.

[Alcibiades]

28. At my school

the lacrosse fraternity made their pledges go out, dig a hole in the lacrosse field, and simulate sex with it.

I didn't get that close to many of them in school, except for one guy who was recruited and, though he loved the sport, dropped off the team at the end of his freshman year because his teammates were so lame. He became my best friend in college.

[DURHAM D]

33. Last week at the public forum at Central a young man made

the comment (paraphrased)

"This kind of behavior by certain types of boys is condoned and rewarded and can result in someone who acts like that becoming President".

[onenote]

34. "As a southern man, I would never, ever, ever do what they did "

Maybe you wouldn't, but you're not every southern man and the Duke Lacrosse players aren't every northern male. I obviously can't find statistical back up, but I went to school in the south and you'd have a hard time convincing me that southern males would never hire a black stripper or never insult a black woman. One statistic that I could find is that in North Carolina in 2004, between 5 and 6 percent of all rapes involving a black woman involved a white perpetrator. http://sbi2.jus.state.nc.us/crp/public/Default.htm

I couldn't find comparable stats for NJ or NY, but my guess is that its probably around the same.


onenote

[marions ghost]

36. 5-6% of rapes involved a white perp

you'd have to have more evidence to show that there was a racial domination or hate component in that 5-6%--could have just been the usual gender-based violence.

[Alcibiades]

40. Obviously, I cannot speak for all southern men

I was only speaking for myself. I know that there are rapists, and I suspect that many of them don't discriminate. I know it is certainly possible for a white southerner to hire a black exotic dancer or to insult a black woman. You might find, for example, some good old boys who might yell comments at a lone black woman walking along the road. I've certainly seen that happen.

I was speaking to one aspect of this incident, the "pig party" aspect. I'm concerned here not with the rape itself--which the defense lawyers are trying to turn into a "he said, she said" affair, but with the party at which the rape occurred, the facts of which are not in question. One of the common reactions we have heard is that these "boys" should know better. I was trying to point out that you cannot, in the south, in 2006, hire a black stripper and call her a n*gger, and hang out with 40 or so of your white buddies and shout out the word "n*gger" to black women who pass by, and not expect some serious repercussions, both in terms of legal issues, but mainly in the form of public outrage.

Southern white folks know this, for the most part, except for the handful of unreconstructed KKK-type racists. Again, I'm not implying that the so-called "new south" is a Nirvana of tolerance, or that there is no discrimination. Still, southern whites are likely to at least know a few black people. We know how they would react to being called a "n*gger," we are familiar, for the most part, with our own history, and that the word "n*gger" is part and parcel of a legacy of racial terrorism. It is beyond the pale.

Apparently, though, some people have come here from such sheltered backgrounds that they do not know what every southerner knows. If they don't know it already, the reaction of the community has made it clear: racism, at least in its ugliest, most overt form, is not tolerated here.

My point wasn't directed at northerners in general. I imagine that a white person in Detroit has probably learned this lesson as well as we have. It is directed against a subset of hypermacho young men from elite private schools who think that their money and privilege gives them the right to terrorize black people in our community.

I also tried to bring up the point that some changes need to be made at Duke, and other elite schools generally. Delbarton has five alums on the Duke lacrosse team--on only one sports team--and probably many others in the student body, yet it is a very small school. This means that, on a per student basis, you are several thousand times more likely to attend Duke if you went to Delbarton rather than the Durham Public School system. We have an elite school here that does not serve our community. Meanwhile, Duke pays no property taxes because it's a nonprofit. They use things such as the supposed "academic rigor" to give students from these elite prep schools an edge in admissions--a 4.0 counts for much more at Duke if you are from Delbarton than from the DPS. The NCCU student who claims to have been raped probably could not have gotten into Duke. One of the things these all-male, elite private high schools use to sell their graduates to schools is their supposed ability to "form character." It appears they have formed character, but not in a good way.