Regarding the Duke case and the alleged victim

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

The strongest argument at the moment in favor of the fact that this actually *MAY* have happened is this. The alleged victim *knows* her line of work. She *knows* that is an argument against her credibility. It doesn't matter if she is smart as a whip or dumb as a box of rocks...not only does SHE know she will not be given the benefit of the doubt, odds are the DA informed her she would not be given the benefit of the doubt even SOLELY on the basis of her vocation.

In North Carolina, it is highly doubtful that the entire grand jury consists of open minded people who are *dying* to give a stripper the benefit of the doubt.


Since we are all speculating here, my best guess is that everyone involved in the prosecution of this case warned her she would absolutely not be given the benefit of the doubt but somehow she got it in spite of her profession from the grand jury.

In and of itself, that is a strong argument for something actually having happened...remember the Kobe case? The minute that victim was clear she was not going to be given the benefit of the doubt, she folded...not so with this alleged victim.

[northzax]

1. the one catch in this theory

is that the Grand Jury may not have been told what she was doing at the Party. The DA controls the information flow to the Grand Jury completely, and may well have not included that information.

again, more speculation. Remember, Kobe was indicted as well.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. Maybe..but you don't know either

The DA does control the cases he/she chooses to prosecute though...furthermore on Kobe we will all never know since charges were dropped which is not a factual finding of innocence...and hell...look at the OJ case where 99 out of 100 will say he was guilty based on what they saw in spite of the fact that he was found not guilty.

[northzax]

6. I did say I was speculating

and I think the DA is having some serious issues with this case. One of the men arrested seems to have an ironclad alibi (the cabbie that picked him up will swear to his not being at the house, he used an ATM while the rape was reportedly happening, and didn't return to the house from the cab. Reportedly, the rape occured between 12:30 and 1:00, when this man was at least a mile away, in the company of a complete bystander, and used an ATM and his Duke Student Card at 12:24 and 12:45.

not to say that a rape did not occur, but it does seem that one of them is the wrong guy, or something really weird is going on.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. That's compelling. We shall see. You know as well as I timesa

are often approximate and it's entirely feasible for the guy to be a mile away while the other guy is on her....hell...in my prime, I could run an eight minute mile...the guy is a college athelete for chrissakes!

Hello...btw...you will always have a warm spot in my heart and my debate muscle :D

[northzax]

11. I wouldn't buy it at all

except for the cab driver, who doesn't seem to have a dog in the fight (and isn't particularly flattering to the guy) and is, for what it's worth, Black (and an immigrant, I think, from the strong accent)

If this guy in particular did it, then he's some sort of evil genius to have planned it out that well. And the worst part, is that if he's not the guy who did it, and a rape did in fact occur, then the real rapists are going to get off, since all they have to say on the stand is "But she said it was THAT guy, not me" What a mess.

And welcome back, it's good to have you back in the fray! :hi:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. Remember the Billionaire Boys Club?

There are evil geniuses on college campuses. Ted Bundy comes to mind...hell he was caught by accident...and there's no tellin what you can get a cabbie to say when you drag hundred dollar bills through cabyards... I'm not impressed with that

[TorchTheWitch]

5. Does the grand jury

not get tv and newspapers? This story has been in the media for weeks.

[Dangerously Amused]

10. The *DA* controls the information the jury gets to hear?!

Why do you think that?

I was a DA for years and I can tell you that the DA does not get to control what the jury hears. The JUDGE does. Believe me, there were plenty of things that, despite my very best efforts at pretrial motion hearings, the jury got to hear.

[northzax]

13. GRAND Jury

not trial jury. There are no judges involved in Grand Jury Proceedings, to the best of my knowledge, only the DA and the Grand Jury.

sorry if I didn't make that point clear.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. Actually judges do have jurisdiction over grand juries even

though they are not present and can throw out indictments as a result. Furthermore, although states make their own rules, in EVERY state I know of, it is a REQUIREMENT that prosecutors present exculpatory evidence. Unless the prosecutor is a complete DOLT I would think he would have presented that info

[northzax]

18. is her profession exculpatory?

I'd call it irrelevant to the crime. would the fact that she's a banker, or lawyer, or a construction worker be relevant as exculpatory evidence? I'm not saying he didn't present it, but I wouldn't think that it would be legally relevant to this particular case. but that's just me. If she were a prostitute, that might be considered relevant, might. but I don't think being a stripper is relevant to rape.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. You do realize the grand jury can ask her questions, no?

Good point, but I would think a prosecutor wouldn't withhold that...might not be exculpatory per se...

[AllieB]

2. You raise some good points

However, don't be surprised when those that respond to your thread use words like 'ho' and doubt the attack. This whole incident has brought out the worst of DU.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. I think sexist language is against the rules

and if they doubt the attack, that is their free speech right. It's my right to challenge. I love free speech. I use it all the time to be politically correct. :evilgrin:

[NashVegas]

7. The Kobe Crap

Didn't really get going until the trial had already started. It was the public trial that made his accuser fold.

Who knows how this will go?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. We shall see. Rape trials have only been tried in the press the

past few years. Again...in my view, unless this woman has the mental capacity of Terri Schiavo...she knew what she was in for and went forward anyway

[Jigarotta]

12. fact is, rape is an ugly fact

in huge numbers, aside from spotlight stories to sell ads or distract, there's some happening right now while we discuss.
In the land of the so called free. There is something deeply disturbing about us, and that is one of the reasons why the * can do what he's done - because we allow it amongst ourselves. We're tuned up for it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. True ..we expect it...that's why my keys are in my hand and my heart

beats a bit faster when I gotta run to my car at night in a dark parking lot

[bloom]

17. That's pretty much what I've been thinking

That and there must have been some pretty substantial injuries and such. I don't have much doubt that she was raped.


Whether they can say for sure who did it and prove it - is the question.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. I don't know what happened. Nor does anyone.

I DO know that she knew she was in for the ride of her life given her profession and I personally find that persuasive.