"And we should repair N.O. because................?"

[Dawgs]

That was a freeper response to this article-->

Nagin likely winner in New Orleans mayoral race
http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20060420-093603-6632r

So, this freeper has decided that we shouldn't "repair" New Orleans because the Democratic Mayor might get re-elected.

Although I'm not surprised, It's still amazing to read the responses from these people.

Here's the freeper thread if you're interested.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1618432/posts

[porphyrian]

1. Anyone who doesn't know hasn't been there. - n/t

[ClintonTyree]

Got that right.......

and it's so sad to see NO in the shape it's in right now. Yeah, it's worth repairing, believe me. I love that City.

[dysfunctional press]

29. self delete

wrong place

[marmar]

2. Freepers are such lowlife dogs...

I take that back. My apologies to all dogs.

[ClintonTyree]

3. Maybe the freeper would feel better......

if he knew Nagin was a Republican before he turned Democrat. No Republican could get elected as Mayor of New Orleans before so he switched party. Would that make the poor freeper feel better? :shrug:

[LisaLynne]

4. My totally Repug coworker ...

pretty much said the same thing when I was talking about my equally Repug "friend" who was going down to help with the reconstruction with her church group. So, I told her what he had said. You know, just to spread the unity through the Repug ranks. :evilgrin:

[VolcanoJen]

8. Racism and classism came out from whatever shadows...

... they were hiding behind during Katrina.

I was shocked by some of the statements my coworkers and bosses made.

My world view completely changed during that horrible, horrible week.

[LisaLynne]

13. I know the feeling.

And what's scary is that we are probably more clued into the fact that classism and racism exist in the first place and we were still shaken by it. I honestly have to wonder about the humanity of people who are so callous that they can ignore the images shown during that week and even resent the fact that some people might feel the need to do what they can to help. It's shocking and very, very saddening.

[jus_the_facts]

5. Here's another freeperesque post on another forum about evacuees in TX....

....please feel free to jump in and give these fucktarded freaks a lesson!! This site is outter limits already but you don't get banned for dissenting opinions...so please reply to this thread as it desperately needs some enlightenment. :crazy:

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?messageid=223697&mpage=1&showdate=4/20/06

Re: This is what "those people" from NO did.. Katrina evacuees make a big mess in Texas

I hear burger king is giving signing bonuses and paying double wages in new orleans and they still can't get workers...


give me a break here...

the people we are talking about don't want to work.. never wanted to work.. never WILL work...

fuck them

and if they try looting my place they will meet the business end of my AK47

and I might just eat their asses if I get the notion... BARBQ style, since there is generally no power after a hurricane for awhile...

[rkc3]

10. The nutters on that site would likely kill anyone who mentions that

the creation of Israel displaces Arabs who were living in the same region (after all Jeebus won't come back until Israel is reborn), yet they have such a hard time putting up with evacuees in their own state.

Something ironic in the parallels.

[jus_the_facts]

39. I let the moderator have it in that thread....one of the most vocal....

....called him a cocksucker and told him to do the world a favor and blow his own brains out with his big Russian gun. :nopity:

[rkc3]

48. Good for you - had a similar conversation with my "christian"

neighbor when he announced the blacks (not the word used) stayed behind to loot the city.

I wanted to know if Jesus was a bigot too. Maybe I just missed that in Catholic school.

[BOSSHOG]

6. So freeper businessmen will have a place to

engage in anonymous gay sex?

Actually, to ensure that the Mississippi River remains open and flowing unimpeded from Hurricane related flotsam and jetsam would be one good answer. But such a thought would require introspection and knowledge and other "conservative" averse shit.

And Nagin's win is not a done deal. He will most likely be in a runoff with a very well financed opponent after the primary election this Saturday.

[justice1]

20. That's it exactly

They want people frustrated enough they leave. In a couple of years they will give big government contracts to their developer friends to rebuild. It will be their little haven for partying.

[genie_weenie]

7. Is everyone certain N.O. should be rebuilt?

I'm not talking about keeping people from having homes. But, N.O. is a spectacular failure of Government at multiple levels (City, Parish, State, Federal) and I'm not so certain rebuilding a city with billions of dollars extorted from taxpayers, which is ripe for hurricanes every year, has to have levees built higher and higher, needs the Army Corps of Engineers to continue diverting the Mississippi so N.O. doesn't become a city on a mud plain, is necessarily a Grand Idea.

And as far as culture goes :shrug:...

[porphyrian]

9. You haven't been there before the hurricane, have you?

I'm not sure I can do it justice in trying to describe it. It was a whole lot more than a week of drunken revelry each year.

[genie_weenie]

11. I'm not trying to belittle the Greatness of N.O.

I'm trying to view the situation rationally. And, if one was going to build a house with your money (without any safeguards or insurance to cover you in case of loss) one would make sure it was in a relatively stable area.

That's all I'm saying. I think the same thing of people who build their homes on mudslideville California or in the Shadow of Mt. Vesuvius, pretty risky wouldn't you agree?

But, hell when you've got the unlimited pockets of the Federal Government who will just stick it to the tax paying middle class why not?

[porphyrian]

16. Oh, I understand your pragmatism.

I'm just saying that New Orleans was a place like no other, like Vienna, Austria or Amsterdam. It's more like restoring a work of art - you find a way to pay for it, you don't really ask if it's worth it to do so.

[genie_weenie]

17. Okay, good point

:toast: Cheers!

[Boomer]

19. Just the first erasure on the US coast

New Orleans may be the first major city to be wiped off the map by a hurricane, but it won't be the last. After we've lost a few more cities, and all the little coastal towns inbetween, there won't be any more discussion about whether or not to rebuild.

By that point even the developers will get a clue: our coastlines must be abandoned, the ruins left to rot. There will be no reconstruction, just retreat.

No matter how much it sucks, this is our new future under climate change. The ocean waters are going to keep rising, the hurricanes and storm surges will become more violent, and millions of people will need to find a new place to live.

[porphyrian]

23. Ironically, coastal development has only increased...

...at least in Florida, where there is practically no Gulf coastline left undeveloped that can be now. You have to understand, even if these places are destroyed again and again, developer are only making money building and rebuilding. It's the people who buy that have the problems, and last I heard, there was no shortage of buyers.

[genie_weenie]

28. National Flood Insurance Program

Why not build and have a nice view when you have the taxpayer to cover your possible loss.

[porphyrian]

44. Really. - n/t

[Boomer]

33. DeNile is a powerful river

We're a species with very short memories, but there is only so long that reality can be ignored. The next ten years will show (or not) the violence and frequency of hurricanes in a warming planet.

If Katrina and Rita were flukes, yes, the rebuilding will continue. But if we get hit that hard EVERY year, then there simply won't be enough time or money to rebuild. Bear in mind, there are areas still reeling from Charley, much less Katrina and Rita.

New Orleans was especially vulnerable to the flooding, but the massive ocean front development all along the very very flat Florida coast still provides plenty of scope for damage. And as sea level rises overall, the contamination of the water table will create as many problems as the hurricanes.

[porphyrian]

42. The same places probably won't be hit every year.

Developers make money as long as they have time to sell what they build, and sometimes they sell before the building's done.

I completely see what you're saying, though. Development has played a big part in the severity of coastal hurricane damage. They've removed much of the wetlands (such as mangrove swamps) that serve as a natural buffer between the Gulf and the mainland. Who cares if the planet's destroyed? Developers got paid.
:eyes:

[HeeBGBz]

62. Lets not build anything in Los Angeles either

They had a big earthquake once...

[porphyrian]

98. Yeah, really.

The economy is as shitty as it's been for most people, so no one wants to pay for anything they don't have to. While I understand that, I still hold that the people who are questioning it have never been there.

[HeeBGBz]

121. That would seem the case

Since I fell totally in love with the place the first time I went there. There is no other city like it and will never be another city that can capture it's culture and history.

Edited to say: I think my previous reply was meant for the post below yours. I think I put it in the wrong place. Sorry for any misunderstanding. I totally agree with your comment.

[porphyrian]

124. It was the dirtiest city I ever loved.

Especially the French Quarter. The last time I was there, someone had smeared feces on a wall we passed. Yet, in some sick way, it seemed to fit. And we were on our way to eat. I don't think we ever ate in the same place twice (except for the Trolley Stop), and it was never bad. I guess, like with musicians, there are so many good restaurants competing that even the worst is great.

Speaking of the Trolley Stop, I wonder if it survived and/or is re-opening. It was right next to the Ponchartrain Hotel on St. Charles. It was a 24 hour greasy spoon with great breakfast food, impatient wait staff, and really affordable prices. We ended up there a couple of times, and I have fond memories of it.

[EFerrari]

123. So, how much of your money is rebuilding New Orleans?

And have you any idea just how much the Feds have screwed Katrina survivors?

And have you any idea about the number of people right here at DU that are still recovering from this horrible disaster? Whose lives have been forever changed? Whose lives are in limbo?

When the Big One hits San Francisco, I have to remember to stay out of GD.

[genie_weenie]

134. Yes, my original post to this thread

was all about the failure of the government. But, all I did was stir up an emotional hornet's nest which everyone on the DU felt safe in labeling and attacking me.

Well, I should have known better.

I think what's going to happen is a shoddy, half-assed rebuild with semi-strengthened levees. Mold is going to cause a large amount of respiratory ailments, some parts of the city are going to be raised to ensure they don't flood out, the Mississippi will continue to be directed towards NO. A bunch of toxins (pesticides, fertilizers, human excrement, oil and other fuels) will continue to flood down the Miss from up north, causing a great dying off of wildlife in the Gulf of Mexico. and eventually another disaster will hit, more poor people will suffer greatly because the government will again do nothing.

And people will be asking how did it happen again? And people will respond the Government needs more money and more power and then not connect the outcome of that with the Wars of Aggression the government wages in order to justify it's huge intake of money.

[JVS]

135. I saw a show on TV about how San Franciscos rebuilding is a...

huge disaster waiting to happen. One guy on the show said that the US is a young country and we don't have ruins, but in the older countries people have learned the hard way where the right places to put cities are.

[EFerrari]

136. And meanwhile, our beautiful inclusive city thrives.

[JVS]

155. Enjoy it while you have it

[marbuc]

12. Besides its cultural value

NO is critical to commerce in the US. If SF gets the "big one" should we rebuild? The answer is yes, as it should be in NO. I would support carefully consider not rebuilding in particularly high risk areas, but I cannot imagine this country without New Orleans.

[genie_weenie]

14. But, the Mississippi meanders

like all rivers and the Army Corps of Engineers has been forcing the Mighty Miss towards N.O. to keep it from being irrelavant.

Of course another topic is the all the pesticides, shit and fertilzers which flow into the Gulf of Mexico killing off all species in it's flow of death... But, that's not germaine to this conversation.

[porphyrian]

21. What better time to address those issues than during the rebuild? -n/t

[CottonBear]

22. NOLA was/is one of Americas greatest cities & the MOST unique.

Damn right we should rebuild it. We should get the Dutch, Italians and British to help us build massive flood/storm barriers like those that protect the Dutch coast, the mouth of the Thames River and the city of Venice. We should bring the people back so that the culture will not die.

My husband is a native of NOLA. His family came there from France in the 1800s. My mom's family lived in NOLA and on the Gulf Coast as well.

You must have never been there. New Orleans is truly unique. No other city in North Amercia is as unique as New Orleans.

To paraphrase a quote in the front of A Confederacy of Dunces: New Orleans is a Mediterranean city separated only from he rest of the Mediterranean by the Atlantic Ocean.

[porphyrian]

24. A great book, by the way. - n/t

[CottonBear]

26. It's one of my all time favorite novels!

I have the sudden urge to read it again! I've only read it about 10 times! ;)

[genie_weenie]

40. So, should the Fed pass legislation

"Special New Orleans spending Bill" all US citizens are hereby ordered to give half of their income to rebuild this great, cultural nexus and hugely important harbor city?

[CottonBear]

68. You are being absurd. I won't respond to your ridiculous statements. nt

[genie_weenie]

70. Tell me what's absurb. The Government taking your money

I'd like to know how much you think it's going to cost and how long it's going to take.

Everyone on this thread is emoting "We absolutely must rebuild" without taking a hard look at the facts.

I admit my last statment had a touch of hyperbole... But, I don't know what the final cost of rebuilding that entire area is going to be and I think it's going to be quite a bit higher than people want to admit.

[CottonBear]

76. Your arguments are absurd. n/t

[genie_weenie]

81. You win!

But, I understand your post to mean you have no idea how much you think it's going to cost and how long it's going to take to rebuild.

Thanks for beating me up for my absurb questions about where the money is going to come from! I sure am stupid!

[Bridget Burke]

79. You obviously prefer your tax dollars....

Pay for Iraq & any other wars Bush might want to start.

[genie_weenie]

85. OH YES! YES! YES! Thanks for the insult.

More war and death it makes me feel so good. Oh Yes!

Please see post #51 and #58.

[frustrated_lefty]

127. How much is spent on Florida every single year?

[genie_weenie]

129. But, that's wrong too.

National Flood Insurance Program ensures that well off people will continue to build homes in dangerous areas knowing that the Big Daddy government will give them so much money.

It's almost not worth typing about for me anymore, I've really been slammed on this thread.

[Fleshdancer]

25. Yes....

While some might not care about the historical and cultural significance of New Orleans, it's hard to ignore the fact that the NO Port is one of America's leading general cargo ports and considered one of the world's busiest waterways. I can't imagine how this port would succeed if their employees don't have a home to go to...all 107,000 employees by the way. The port alone brings in 2 billion dollars in earnings annually and pays $231 million in taxes to the state...what happens to the rest of the state when it can't get this money anymore? Not to mention the revenue from tourism. If NO falls, is there a chance that the entire state of Louisiana could fall with it?

Besides, are we going to start turning our backs on cities in California when another major earthquake strikes? Or Florida when they get slammed with 20+ hurricanes? Or Texas when tornadoes rip through entire towns?

[genie_weenie]

43. Please see post #41.

I just think in the 21st Century with our understanding of the Earth and the forces of the planet being the greatest of all time we should evaluate the wisdom of rebuilding into a swampy mud plain from which the Mississippi no longer flows towards naturally.

Am I all wet?

[Fleshdancer]

50. The ramifications of not rebuilding NO would be disastrous to LA

This isn't some small town. The economy of NO is something to take into consideration. As far as the Mississippi not flowing toward NO naturally right now...well the 6,000 cargo vessels that go through their port don't seem to care either way.

[jobycom]

27. I understand your point, but the "failure" of gov't at multiple levels

is mostly a failure of government at the federal level, and yes, the city has to be rebuilt, for several reasons.

New Orleans is a major international shipping hub of grain, food, and oil, and several cities further up-river depend on New Orleans for import and export. Without the city, a new city would have to be built somewhere nearby to fill those needs, and there is no higher ground to build on. The biggest failure of government (and society) before the hurricane was in its parasitic attitude to New Orleans. Since New Orleans was largely poor and black, the federal government (both parties) ignored all but the most basic needs of the city, all the while taking the federal taxes New Orleaneans paid and spending them elsewhere. The need for levies is only one of the flood-control needs of the city. There is also a need for the restoration of the wetlands and barrier islands along the coast of New Orleans. Those wetlands would have prevented several feet, maybe ten to fifteen feet, of the storm surge from striking Louisiana and even Mississippi. People talk about global warming as part of the disaster of Katrina, but an even more immediate environmental cause of the damage was this loss of wetlands and islands which have traditionally lessened the storm surge in the region.

The erosion of the wetlands is caused by the increased population of the region, and by the exploitation of resources by the oil industry offshore. Louisiana, unlike non-coastal states, receives no oil revenue from the wells on federal property off their state. Thus, Louisiana has to pay for the damage of the oil companies out of its own pockets. The nation as a whole benefits from this damage, and Louisiana has to foot the bill.

Katrina's damage was in part due to this negligence. In short, we owe New Orleans a city because it was due to our national neglect--governmental and societal--that the damage to New Orleans was so bad. And we must rebuild New Orleans because of the role it plays in our economy. It would be cheaper to rebuild New Orleans than to build a new New Orleans (warehouses, docks, pipelines, channels, infrastructure, housing and support for workers, etc) somewhere else nearby.

As far as culture goes, the unique parts of New Orleans are along the higher ground of the river, and survived nicely. The cultural part of New Orleans is fine. What we are asking is whether we rebuild the rest of New Orleans, the part where the poor black folk live. It's sad that this late in American history we still have such discussions.

And finally, New Orleans is no worse to maintain than Amsterdam, Venice, and even many cities and towns in the far east in China or Viet Nam. We can do it. For that matter, it's probably safer than San Francisco or Los Angeles, which could at any time wind up facing the same situation due to earthquakes. Would we ask the same questions about those cities?

[XemaSab]

32. San Francisco and LA aren't below sea level and sinking

n/t

[jobycom]

153. They are on volatile faults that could go without warning. So they are

in worse places than New Orleans.

[JVS]

156. With proper building codes that can be mitigated.

What's your solution for being under water?

[genie_weenie]

35. The Government failure highlights

a key gripe of mine. Government fails and the call is for more government control, more money to government, bigger, bigger, BIGGER. If people realized that the government does not care about you (never has) and looked to themselves and their small communities to save themselves, things might have gone differently.

I'm not certain rebuilding NO and maintaining the flow of the Miss towards it along with new levees and maintainence is cheaper than a new city. And the Miss is going to keep meandering away from the city.

And this is not a racial issue. This is a government issue. And yes if Frisco or Miami or any city was devasatated I would ask whether it is prudent to have the government come in a steal more money to rebuild in an area replete with dangers of repeated destruction.

[Bridget Burke]

78. Where do you propose to build the new city?

There's not a lot of empty, save landscape in Southern Louisiana.

[jobycom]

154. You seem to like to give up on things.

Cities, government. There's an old saying about throwing babies out with bathwaters that maybe you should read up on.

Government to a conservative is a foreign entity that takes control of a nation and oppresses people. Government to a liberal is the tool by which we do things collectively that we can't do as individuals (at least when we do our job as citizens and force it to be so). It's a big civic association, and we pay dues into it to maintain the roads and common grounds and do what else needs to be done. Maintaining the health of our key cities and infrastructure centers is clearly one of its duties. The failure of government in this case is not about the size of the government, but the focus, and you don't destroy government and give the nation over to the corporations when government fails--you fix it. Just like you do with levees, and cities. You don't abandon the car on the side of the road just because it breaks down--you fix the darn car.

If you let the river shift down the Atchafalaya course and build a new New Orleans in the Atchafalaya swamp, it will still be below sea level, and the River will still want to shift again, so you will still have to spend just as much money to maintain a new course and protect the new city with levees. Plus you have to build it in the first place. So it will clearly be more expensive. And that doesn't include the cost of dredging the new ship channel, relocating millions of people from south Louisiana,, making up the lost incomes for them and the lost economy for the nation.

Fix New Orleans. Visit Venice and Amsterdam to see how other nations do it. We're smart people, we can do it.

[dysfunctional press]

34. not at all.

if they want it rebuilt- do it with private money, or by raising the state income tax in louisiana.

federal taxdollars should not be flushed down that sinkhole- which is destined to be part of the gulf of mexico in the not-too-distant future.

[GumboYaYa]

55. How bout we blockade the river and start charging a little

extra for all the cheap crap being shipped in and farm products being shipped out. Maybe we should kick the oil companmies out and sell you our gas and oil at a fair price. Did you know we supply a giant part of the US energy supplies? People have taken from New Orleansd for years, but now refuse to give anything back. It disgusts me!

I wish New Orleans would secede from the country and let the rest of the country figure out how to survive without our port.

[dysfunctional press]

61. with all the money that will be needed to rebuild N.O.-

and keep it from being swallowed by the sea, nice new ports can be built in a place that isn't a corrupt festering shithole.

the onlt people that have "taken" from new orleans for years are the corrupt louisiana politicians- and you're right- it's disgusting that they refuse to give back.

as for the rest of the nation- we PAY for all that oil and cargo your ports "process" (NOT "supply").

[GumboYaYa]

75. Wrong, oil and gas comes straight from under our waters and swamps....

Besides, try processing it without New Orleans. You don't know much about the Mississippi River if you think ports can be built someplace else. WRONG AGAIN!!!

New Orleans will be rebuilt for that reason alone, despite what a bunch of ignorant uninformed people may think. The only real question is how it is rebuilt.

[dysfunctional press]

113. and where.

the current location won't be there in another 50 years or so.

but try telling that to a bunch of ignorant uninformed louisianans...:eyes:

[KamaAina]

141. "a bunch of ignorant uninformed louisianans"?!

I lived in N.O. for over two years, and I hold a cum laude degree from Yale, which is a hell of a lot better than a certain ignorant uninformed Texan* ever did. A guy I worked with who's a judge down there is a Yale grad, too.

Oh yes, I'm working with an ignorant, uninformed Tulane med student :sarcasm: on a neighborhood rebuilding project in the same Mid-City area where I once defended an abortion clinic; my fellow clinic defenders included a social worker, a grad of Georgia Tech, and quite a few others. If things work out, I may yet be an ignorant, uninformed Louisianian once again. :sarcasm:

edit: spelling

[Bridget Burke]

90. Where do you propose the ports be built?

Please let us know.

[genie_weenie]

94. Allow the Mississippi to flow

naturally and build a new city along it's new bank.

[Bridget Burke]

96. The Mississippi MOVES naturally.

It will NOT stay in one place.

[genie_weenie]

104. Uh huh

and since the river meanders, this is in support of forcing it towards NO?

I started asking legitmate questions concerning the state of lower LA and the huge cost in money and time that were going to be needed to fix NO and got attacked from every corner. Including you calling me a war-monger, Bushlover, Federal Government Supporter and then in need of help.

Oh well...

[dysfunctional press]

116. i hear that baton rouge is nice.

nt

[CottonBear]

73. NOLA is one of the worlds' most important ports.

The US can't survive without it. Our grain and other products are transported downriver and 25% of our oil and gas come into the port not to mention vast quantities of goods from other countries. NOLA and the surrounding parishes are the sites of hugely important shipping ports, ship building yards, US Naval stations and docks, chemical manufacturers and other industries and government installations like the Stennis Space Flight Center where rockets are built.

You obviously do not realize the importance of NOLA and the Gulf Coast to the USA and the rest of North America. The gulf coast has no beachges. It is populated by working people and industries ranging from energy to manufacturing to the fishing/crabbing/shrimping industry.

I know this because my family lived there, my husband is from NOLA and his family survived the hurricane and are still there.

[LeftyMom]

36. Everyplace lives with the threat of some kind of diaster

Here in my hometown, we live behind some huge freakin levees (which the ACOE is forever maintaining and improving) and a system of dams along the two rivers that flow through town (in fact only one river in the area is completely undammed) and the downtown area was raised ten feet or more from it's original elevation in order to prevent flooding, but nobody suggests the place be abandoned after a series of nasty storms overwhelms the system. The system just gets tweaked and improved as it's vunlerablities are revealed, flooded homes are repaired and life goes on.

[genie_weenie]

38. But, the damage is extreme.

And because a city is built in a place where it is likely to undergo a catastrophe is not a reason to re-build it.

But, then the Federal government has no problem "paying" for it since they don't "pay" a dime. And so people have no problem because someone else always foots the bill.

[LeftyMom]

59. The damage has been extreme here too

and in the 1800s the city street level was raised a whole story (so that the ground floor was now the basement level) without benefit of modern earthmoving equipment. One does what one needs to to save people's homes and lives.

[Bridget Burke]

88. The City of Galveston was raised up to 11 feet ...

After the Great Storm of 1900.

[Lars39]

54. If other industrialized countries manage to protect their citizens

we can too.

[JVS]

131. I'm not sure it is a good idea

[genie_weenie]

133. I'd stya clear of responding to my posts

Asking questions about this has apparently offended and angered many DUers.

[Swamp Rat]

15. 'FUCK YOU' to ANYONE who questions us for rebuilding New Orleans!

FUCK YOU!!!

That freeptard would be eating pudding for the rest of his life if he said that shit to my face...

[jobycom]

30. My response was much longer but not as eloquent. Thanks!

:yourock:

[genie_weenie]

41. What if N.O. gets destroyed again?

Should we rebuild time and time again? Is this a non-negotiable? Rebuild everytime.

And only a Sith Lord Deals in absolutes.

[Lars39]

56. Yes, we should.

Just like we should rebuild your town if it were to get blown off the map.

[Swamp Rat]

93. Yes, it is non-negotiable .... WE ARE AMERICANS TOO!

Like I said, 'FUCK YOU'!!! to ANYONE who says otherwise!

Since we were abandoned by the U.S. government and treated poorly by sooo many well-off citizens, at this point, I would likely beat the fuck out of anyone who says anything offensive about New Orleans to my face or ask "why" we want to rebuild... I don't have much to lose at this point... and I am not the only one who feels this way, but one of tens of thousands here who feel just as strongly about this.

[genie_weenie]

102. So, you will resort to force

to take the money from the poor and middle class to rebuild in a dangerous area and rebuild the levees so another man made disaster can strike again. Because you know full well that the rich will hide their money from any reconstruction of NO.

[Swamp Rat]

106. So, you will resort to little weenie freeptard tactics now.

I tell you what, just come down here and start talking like that to people's faces.

I DARE you!




edit: :D

[genie_weenie]

109. Yep, that's it resort to name-calling

very mature. Because eveything I wrote indicated I want the people of NO to suffer. Can I expect a nice reply?

[Swamp Rat]

112. And you think YOU are mature?

Re-read all your stupid posts, Einstein.

Everyone of your posts in this thread, that I have read, is an insult to New Orleanians. You write from the comfort of your home, behind a computer screen, but I bet you do NOT have the balls to talk like this in person, especially to those of us who are SUFFERING AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

"Can I expect a nice reply?" - Of course not, since your writing amounts to offensive and banal platitudes. :eyes:

[genie_weenie]

117. Wow, to be compared to Einstein

I did get a nice reply. Thank you. I did notice you are replying (most likely from a computer, I know this because I'm Einstein). Keep up the good personal attacks. It's not like it really matters because despite all misplaced anger you direct at me, a slipshod, half-assed, graft-laden partial rebuild of New New Orleans is all you can expect the government to do for you.

So, keep being mad at me.

And I type this last word without any animosity or anger, Peace.

[genie_weenie]

111. Did you see this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x979071#979527

35 of the 90 who voted were against rebuilding NO! Man thats 35 more asses your going to have to kick!

[Swamp Rat]

115. Bring them with you

If you got any balls. :eyes:

[frustrated_lefty]

126. Second that.

FUCK YOU AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON!!!

[BrklynLiberal]

18. A VERY interesting article about NO and floods, written in 2002.

http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/wetlands/hurricane_print.html

PART III of Nature's Revenge: Louisiana's Vanishing Wetlands
September 2002

Hurricane Risk to New Orleans
<snip>

Until a couple months ago, Suhayda ran a prominent research center at Louisiana State University. They've developed the most detailed computer models that anybody's ever used to predict how hurricanes could affect this region. Studies suggest that there's roughly a one in six chance that a killer hurricane will strike New Orleans over the next 50 years.
<snip>

A Risky Spot

And just across the Mississippi River, Walter Maestri is struggling to help New Orleans prepare. Maestri is the czar of public emergencies in Jefferson Parish (that's the county that sprawls across a third of the metropolitan area). He points to a map of the region on the wall of his command post.

"A couple of days ago," explains Maestri, "We actually had an exercise where we brought a fictitious Category Five Hurricane into the metropolitan area."

The map is covered with arrows and swirls in erasable marker. They show how the fictitious hurricane crossed Key West and then smacked into New Orleans.

When the computer models showed Maestri what would happen next, he wrote big letters on the map, all in capitals.

"KYAGB—kiss your ass good bye," reads Maestri.

"Because," says Maestri, "anyone who was here when that storm came across was gone—it was body-bag time. We think 40,000 people could lose their lives in the metropolitan area."

And some scientists say that figure is conservative. People have known for centuries that New Orleans is a risky spot — the biggest river in North America wraps around it; and most of the land is below sea level. But researchers say they've been learning just how grave the problem is, only in the last few years. And they say the city and the nation aren't prepared to handle it.

To begin to understand why, we clamber up the levees along the Mississippi River. Our guide is Oliver Houck, who runs the environment program at Tulane University Law School.

Houck describes it, "There's no place in the world that has a levee system that is as extensive as this one—it's a monster system."

The U.S. Army built this monster system we're standing on. Since the late 1800s, the Army Corps of Engineers has built more than 2,000 miles of high, grassy embankments, along the Mississippi and its branches.

"This levee system is to levees around the world, the way that the Great Wall of China is to walls around the world," continues Houck. "There are other walls and then there is The Wall. There are other levees and then there is The Levee system.

The Army built it because storms over the Mississippi used to cause massive floods. Back in the 1920s, the river gushed over its banks and killed thousands of people and forced a million to abandon their homes.

"It was always thought that the big threat of flooding in New Orleans was the river—and it was—because it flooded regularly," explains Houck. "So we beat flooding by taming the river. The irony of history has been that we—like one of those old citadels in an adventure story— defended ourselves against the enemy that we knew, which was the river, but to the rear and to the flank was this other threat, which we are only now beginning to appreciate, and it may be too late to prevent.

<snip>

The Natural Buffer Disappears

And there's another reason why scientists worry more about hurricanes every single year. There's always been a huge natural buffer that helps protect New Orleans from storms. There are miles of wetlands between here and the Gulf of Mexico: they slow hurricanes down as they blow in from the sea. But that buffer is disappearing. Every year, a chunk of wetlands the size of Manhattan crumbles and turns into open water.

Joe Suhayda explains, "So the hurricane can move closer to the city before it starts to decrease. So in effect, the city is moving closer to the Gulf as each year goes by."

And he says, it's partly because of those levees along the Mississippi River. When they stopped the river from flooding, they also prevented the wetlands from getting the regular doses of floodwater and mud that they need to survive. Studies show that if the wetlands keep vanishing over the next few decades, then you won't need a giant storm to devastate New Orleans — a much weaker, more common kind of hurricane could destroy the city too.

The digging that was done in to the wetlands to facilitate the offshore drilling also exacerbated the draining of the wetlands that protected New Orleans. Thom Hartmann had an expert talking about this on his show a few weeks back.

[dysfunctional press]

31. because global warming is a hoax, and the oceans won't rise up...

and engulf the city...that's why!

...in the bizarro world.

[Marr]

37. Why do Freepers hate America? Why do they want to see American cities

lying in ruin?

[Fleshdancer]

45. People need to think about the cost of NOT rebuilding NO

I constantly hear that rebuilding NO would be too expensive but with the money that city pulls in, is anyone wondering what the price of NOT rebuilding NO would be? Can anyone tell me what will happen to the state of Louisiana without the tourism and the port revenue? I think we're fooling ourselves by thinking that a major US city can be wiped off the map with no economic consequences (not to mention the social ramifications and historical loss). This seems very short sighted to me.

[fishnfla]

46. 10 billion a month in Iraq

to subsidize a shia fundy country

wtf?

[Fleshdancer]

47. excellent point. n/t

[Cooley Hurd]

49. NOLA residents have paid fed taxes, offered up their sons and daughters...

...for the Iraq fiasco (and all other conflicts) - THEY'VE EARNED THE RIGHT to federal help in rebuilding their homes!!!! Jeebus!!!:grr:

[genie_weenie]

51. Why? I haven't "Earned the Right" to demand

my tax dollars don't go to fund the 400 Billion DoD budget, nor the subsequent extra 72 billion or 50 billion?

Again my questions are why are we adamant about rebuilding in an area prone to hurricanes, under sea-level, protected by bigger and bigger ACOE levees and the forcing of the Mississippi towards the city?

And what if some people didn't pay their taxes? Do those people HAVE THE RIGHT to get the city rebuilt? Or not?

[Cooley Hurd]

53. Get back to me when your home is flattened by a natual disaster...

I guess your post means TOUGH SHIT to San Francisco (earthquake), TOUGH SHIT to Buffalo (blizzard), TOUGH SHIT to Bumfuck, Indiana (tornado)...

Damn...:grr:

[genie_weenie]

58. No, But Iraq meant 'tough shit'

for my friend SSgt Jay Collado and his death by an IED on 20 Feb just outside of Baghdad.

And I don't see how asking rational questions about rebuilding in a place ripe for further disasters is being insensitive? What if it gets destroyed again? And more people die because they are waiting for the Big Daddy Government to swoop in and save them?

I don't understand how asking questions on a discussion board is construed as 'Tough Shit'?

[Cooley Hurd]

60. Your post said (and I'm paraphrasing here) TOUGH SHIT...

...and I'm telling you that citizens of the US have a RIGHT to expect better from the federal government.

[genie_weenie]

65. Here's what I wrote

my tax dollars don't go to fund the 400 Billion DoD budget, nor the subsequent extra 72 billion or 50 billion?

Again my questions are why are we adamant about rebuilding in an area prone to hurricanes, under sea-level, protected by bigger and bigger ACOE levees and the forcing of the Mississippi towards the city?

And what if some people didn't pay their taxes? Do those people HAVE THE RIGHT to get the city rebuilt? Or not?

Where did I write tough shit? You state you are paraphrasing. From what? Your own interpretation of what I wrote?

But, maybe it is time people started looking to themselves and their local communities to save them and not the behemoth of the Government. Unless you are ready to swallow the descion to go into Iraq after all the majority of voters kept * in power in '04. And since he is the AllPowerful GodHead of the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT he Decides...

[Cooley Hurd]

66. You wrote, in not so many words, TOUGH SHIT...

...and other posters said the same thing (read ALL the posts to your OP)...

[Bridget Burke]

82. So you will continue to support the war in Iraq....

Which is another unending disaster.

[genie_weenie]

89. Right on!

I can't wait to get called back up and finally destroy my soul once and for all! Shit, not enough of my friends have been killed yet or had their lives ruined!

Please let's invade Iran.

God, you are right on! I see how you can clearly see my love of death and mayhem from my posts asking if it's wise to rebuild a city in an area prone to disasters and asking where we are going to get the money from! Man you are gooooooood!!!!

Have you thought about running for office? Maybe you could be the one to personally send me my call back to active service for duty in Iran? You'd love that wouldn't you! Hell, after all I'm just one little man? What does my life matter compared to the god damn all powerful state which is your master???

Man, you are just what I needed to come out of my depression!

Thank you so, so, so much.

[Bridget Burke]

95. The "all powerful state" is not MY master.

I never enlisted.

Your life does matter. But not more than anyone else's.

But I understand that depression distorts one's thinking. And I also believe that our tax money would be better spent on health care for vets than on the endless war.

[genie_weenie]

99. Oh come on!

Each and everyone of your posts clearly indicated how little you thought of me. But, now that I called you on it you come back with an even more insensitive reply.

Just keep paying into the Beast, your money funds Iraq. I'm sure you believe our tax dollars should be spent on wounded vets. Does your congressman? Do your Senators? Do you know what their voting record is?

And I'd like to know where I stated my life matters more than another Americans or an Iraqi or an Afghani???

[GumboYaYa]

64. It wasn't a natural disaster it was a man made disaster.

New Orleans is destroyed because the rest of the nation ignored our screams for years that we needed to shore up our levees. New Orleans flooded because the Army Corp of Engineers failed in their design of our levees. That is an engineering fact.

The American people owe it to rebuild New Orleans because they foresake it for tax cuts and corporate welfare.

[Swamp Rat]

101. THANK YOU!!!!

I can't believe some of the BULLSHIT OFFENSIVE posts on this thread!!! :mad:

How dare ANYONE question us about rebuilding our city!!! ... unless they are willing to SAY IT TO MY FACE!

[Cooley Hurd]

107. I stand corrected...

:thumbsup::hug:

[KamaAina]

143. And TOUGH S--T to Hilo, Hawai'i (tsunami)

TOUGH SHIT to much of Orange County, Cal. (wildfires), TOUGH SHIT to areas right outside Orlando (sinkholes!), and so on, and so on, ad nauseam.

[Lars39]

57. As stated up thread, other industrialized countries protect their

citizens, we should be able to also.

[genie_weenie]

69. Which nations? China, Russia?

I have no faith in Government and their Centalized Power.

[Lars39]

72. Nice red-baiting there.

Denmark, Spain, England, to name a few.

[genie_weenie]

74. Oh, come on it's not about "red-baiting"

whatever that is! It's about demographics. How many people live in DENMARK?

Spain is on it's way to becoming a confederation of states, because of the rich diverse history of the nation.

And England, by which I assume you mean the UK, has been undergoing 200 years of Industiralization.

An excellent book details the great work on the sewer system. The Great Stink of London : Sir Joseph Bazalgette and the Cleansing of the Victorian Metropolis.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0750925809/002-2460173-6053647?v=glance&n=283155

The only industrial nations approaching our size, and population are China and Russia. I simply think it is going to cost a significantly larger amount of money and time to rebuild the entire area and guard it against future disasters.

[Lars39]

80. It is a cost that should be paid.

[Fleshdancer]

83. 5,450,661 people live in Denmark

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/da.html

[CottonBear]

105. Link to the Netherlands Deltawerken site:

Click on the British flag for the site in English.
http://www.deltawerken.com/

[Lars39]

138. I don't have search ability right now, but do you remember that thread

not too long ago that showed pics of the systems the different countries had built?
It was an excellent visual that really cuts thru the bs.

[CottonBear]

144. I think I posted those pictures. I'll search & PM them if I find them. nt

[Lars39]

145. heh. I knew it was a 'bear', just didn't know if it was you or Bluebear.

:D

[CottonBear]

146. I'm Cotton Bear

but I'm a straight girl DU bear! I didn't know about "bears" when I signed up for DU!
I love all of our bears! My name is a combo of my filly, Cotton, and the bear shaped cookie jar in which I keep change to pay for her: the Cotton Bear! ;)

[Lars39]

148. It's a neat username.

Is bear an euphanism for something I don't know about? :blush:

[CottonBear]

149. Yes.

A "bear" is sometimes a gay man who is quite hairy! (i.e. not all waxed and shaved!)
Hey, I love everyone, here at DU and I love all of our bears! We have a lots of DUers with bear in their user name. :)

[Lars39]

157. Thanks for the explanation!

I'm totally clueless sometimes. I agree;all the DU bears are cool.
Isn't funny how you can hold such affection for people you've never met in real life? :hi:

[CottonBear]

158. You're welcome!

I so enjoy chatting with my DU friends! I've met a bunch of Georgia Duers and I must say they are wonderful people! I you ever have the chance to meet some DUers in real life you should do do!

I'm looking forward to meeting BOSSHOG when Mr. CB and I travel to southern LA to visit family. BOSS keeps sending me descriptions of the wonderful food he's going to eat at the French Quarter Festival this weekend and it's just killing me! I have simply got to get down there ASAP and eat some crawfish and softshell crabs and gumbo and po boys!

:hi:

[Lars39]

159. I was reading the descriptions of the food to my husband

and I swear he was licking his lips. :D
I need to start a kitty to go to a DU meetup. :hi:

[LeftyMom]

63. By that logic, nobody should live anywhere on the Gulf Coast

and coastal California should be abandoned due to earthquake danger, as should the huge swaths of the Midwest at risk from the New Madrid fault. For that matter, damn near the entire United States is f'd should the volcano under Yellowstone go, so let's all just move back to wherever the hell it is we came from (except that there are undoubtedly natural disasters there too.)

[genie_weenie]

67. You're missing the point.

I don't agree with 260 billion in Iraq, but the Federal Government says so. I don't believe in giving money to Afghan Warlords who grow Opium and from 90-94 were responsible for killing their own citizens and other minorities in the nation before the rise of the Taliban but the Federal Government says so.

So, isn't it time we question theses expenditures?

[Bridget Burke]

87. Hey--do whatever the Federal Government tells you to do!

How obedient.

[genie_weenie]

92. You are such a beautiful person!

Wow. Are you single? Or willing to cheat if not? Because you understand me so well! I can imagine your lithe, beautiful fingers gently rapping out these gossamer like messages to me. They resonate like the voice of the Amidha Buddha slowly droning in my mind!

Please send me more!

[Bridget Burke]

97. I do understand you now.

Can you get help?

[genie_weenie]

100. Wow, what insight.

First your replies to my posts indicate I love war and Bush and the Federal Government, then when I call you on it with complete absurb responses you indicate I need help.

Sorry, if my posts laid bare your misunderstanding of the world and the US.

Just keep posting here. You are really showing the man, you can't be trifled with!!!

[Swamp Rat]

108. Show us what YOU got bud!

Get your ass down to New Orleans and tell people to their faces the utter bullshit you're peddling here.

Bring it ON!

[genie_weenie]

110. You know you should really change your profile comment

I don't think anything you posted from your very first post on this thread has been peaceful.

And bring it on? What does that mean?

[Swamp Rat]

114. It means cut your offensive crap here at DU

I have no interest in a 'peaceful' discourse with a creature like you.

You came here just to offend people, and got what you came for - to publicly offend New Orleanians, and to kick us when we are down.

Keep it up enie_weenie!

[genie_weenie]

119. You did notice not everyone here is in lockstep with you

On rebuilding New New Orleans? Why don't you chide NO WR Joe Horn and ask him for some money, he's got lots and he made it while working in New Orleans.

But, I understand the healing process requires a focus for your energy to be vented upon. So, since one can't threaten you know who just kept projecting it towards me.

I'm glad I could help you feel better about yourself and your situation.

Peace.

[Swamp Rat]

120. You do not deserve American citizenship.

You simply do not measure up.

[genie_weenie]

122. Unreal. Seriously, then

if you still have it in you, what needs to be done? This doesn't need to be exact, just a rough outline.



I know you are going to simply ignore this or reply with another venom filled response, but I figured I
d give it a shot.

[EFerrari]

125. You've managed to insult a valued DUer who also happens

to be one of the most gentle people I know.

Well done.

[stepnw1f]

132. I Love Your Style.... (nt)

[frustrated_lefty]

130. Karma is a beautiful thing.

I have to wonder what form you will take in the next turn of the wheel.

[genie_weenie]

140. Nice too know so many DUers

can spill vitriol and wish so much violence, ill feelings and hatred upon me. I don't think you "earned" yourself any Karma for your above reproach.

[Bridget Burke]

151. My misunderstanding of YOU is what caused the problem.

You are depressed & filled with anger. Which is totally understandable. And it's easy to see how you can lash out at those who did NOT hurt you--such as the people of New Orleans.

I am sorry that I hurt your feelings. You have my sympathy.

[XemaSab]

77. That's overstating the hazards slightly

72 people died in the Northridge Quake, and 63 people died in the Loma Prieta Quake (42 of whom were on the Cypress Structure). 12 people died in the tsunami in Crescent City in 1964. The floods of '97 killed 8 people.

My point is that while we have certainly taken our hits here in California, we haven't had anything beginning to approach the scale of the disaster or the loss of life that occured in NOLA since the quake of 1906 (before building codes were put into place). That's not saying we couldn't see something that awful, but it hasn't happened yet. When San Francisco, Sacramento, or LA are totally destroyed, then we'll talk about the prudence of rebuilding those cities. Until then I think the "all parts of the country get natural disasters" argument for rebuilding is a bit of a red herring.

Large parts of New Orleans are below sea level, and I worry that it's only a matter of time before another huge storm comes through and wreaks equal or worse havoc. I know all of us throughout the US face the threat of natural disasters, but I think it's fair to question the wisdom of rebuilding NOLA.

[Bridget Burke]

86. New Orleans could be raised.

The levees could be repaired. The wetlands could be restored.

Or you can meekly accept that your tax dollars are better spent on war.

[XemaSab]

91. I dunno how the hell they're going to restore the coastal islands

and I dunno where they're going to get the fill material to raise the city up 10 feet.

Furthermore, even if they use solid concrete levees, there is still risk of seepage under the levees.

I agree with you that the war is a huge waste of money, but I'm not sure people are going to like the price tag for rebuilding in a safe manner.

[Bridget Burke]

150. There are people who DO know how to do what it would take...

To restore NOLA & keep it safe.

Many of us would not mind having some of our War taxes directed toward more constructive projects.

[XemaSab]

137. I thought about this post a bit

and I do need to attend to the speck in my own eye a bit.

I think there ARE areas of California that should not be built on, such as Natomas, the Marina District, the Oakland Hills, and many of the wooded canyons of Southern California. They're accidents waiting to happen. :(

[Bridget Burke]

84. What about all those (dormant?) volcanoes in the ....

Great Northwest?

Of course, there are parts of the country where the greatest danger is death from boredom.

[CottonBear]

71. LA people have not been fairly compensated for the natural resources

which have been and are being removed from their state. Money goes out and doesn't come back to the Gulf Coast. The oil and gas companies have no interest in the social, economic, cultural and ecological health of the Gulf Coast and its people, We, the American people, should make them accoutable and make the corporations pay a fair price to the Gulf Coast states for their natural resources.

[dysfunctional press]

118. does louisiana have a STATE income tax?

if not, why not?
our state does...-why shouldn't the people of louisiana be the first to pony up?

[frustrated_lefty]

128. Oh, choke on a fucking mudbug.

State income tax ate a hefty chunk out of every single one of my paychecks.

[dysfunctional press]

147. a simple "yes" would suffice-

i didn't know if LA was one of those states like florida- where they have no state income tax, but are the first to cry for federal money.
florida always finds a way to piss me off.

[Bridget Burke]

152. The people of Southern Louisiana use colorful language....

It's one of the many reasons the region is important to many of us.

[Bake]

52. Un-fucking-believable

"Having come from Memphis, I know how chocolates vote...with a blind eye. Memphis has a crook for a mayor, the city is going down the drain, financially, but he can be mayor for life.

One only has to look at Washington, DC, where Marion Barry
was reelected, after being convicted as a coke head.

As long as a city is predominantly black, the black will always win, no matter how bad he is."

END OF QUOTE.

Does anyone besides STUPID RACIST white people post on FR?

Bake

[texastoast]

103. Does anyone besides STUPID RACIST white people post on FR?

Um, no. I don't think so.

[SeaBob]

139. A.C.

I just mailed the Freeper site and asked if the person known as Ann Coulter ever had a sex change operation?

[KamaAina]

142. Leave it to a FReeper to go ballistic over a Moonie Times article

"World Peace Herald" is yet another Moonie cat box liner; the story is reprinted from the Moonie Times itself.

The article is misleading; CW down there is actually that Nagin probably makes the runoff but loses to Lt. Gov. Mitch Landrieu, who's actually a better Dem than ex-repuke Nagin, but is white, and therefore presumably less threatening to Mr. FReeper.