Fitzgerald told Grand Jury that Rove Lied 8/9 times to investigators.

[rodeodance]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/042006Z.shtml

Grand Jury Hears Evidence Against Rove
By Jason Leopold
t r u t h o u t | Report

Thursday 20 April 2006

> ...... Fitzgerald told the grand jury that Rove lied to investigators and the prosecutor eight out of the nine times he was questioned about the leak and also tried to cover-up his role in disseminating Plame Wilson's CIA status to at least two reporters.
>
........
>
> Rove's story began to unravel when Fitzgerald discovered the existence of an email Rove sent to then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley after he spoke with Cooper on July 11, 2003.
>
> Rove did not disclose the existence of the email during his first two appearances before the grand jury. Rove testified that he found out about Plame Wilson after her identity was disclosed in several news stories.
>
> "I didn't take the bait," Rove wrote in the email to Hadley immediately following his conversation with Cooper. "Matt Cooper called to give me a heads-up that he's got a welfare reform story coming. When he finished his brief heads-up he immediately launched into Niger. Isn't this damaging? Hasn't the president been hurt? I didn't take the bait, but I said if I were him I wouldn't get Time far out in front on this."

[Whoa_Nelly]

1. Ummm spelling?

It's FITZgerald...just sayin'.... :popcorn:


Sure hope Rove gets indicted and has to testofy under oath!

[rodeodance]

3. gawd, I wish this investigation would move faster!

[Catherine Vincent]

12. You have to be patient. Here, have a drink on me!

:P

[Seabiscuit]

22. Oh, man, I'm soooo thirsty for some justice!!!

[aquart]

32. The Ryan prosecution began slowly.

Convicted on all counts.

Let Fitz be Fitz.

[spanone]

71. I do too, but Fitz is up against one of the slickest & sickest bunch

of mafioso types we can imagine. Ducks must be in rows.

[Catherine Vincent]

5. I have corrected Rodeo before about that.

S/he won't budge from it. ;-)

[aquart]

33. You all know what the "fitz" prefix means, don't you?

It means "a royal bastard." Go Fitz!

[H2O Man]

42. Fitzgerald = Mac Gerailt

The Sons of Gerailt are two large families that are closely associated with the Angelo-Norman invasions of the island. The two primary "divisions" are the Desmonds (the famous "Knights of Kerry" and "Knights of Glin"); and those of Kildare, who are best known for being entirely focused on the cause of truth and justice in the Rebellion of Silken Thomas .... and, of course, the execution of Henry VIII of Thomas, and his family, in 1537. In the US, it is commonly associated with the southern Clanna, because of the Kennedys.

[Catherine Vincent]

61. I was going to say Fitz means "the son of"

But H2O Man beat me to it. :)

[aquart]

2. Hey! He told the truth once!

With this White House, that's a high standard.

Of course, I bet it was when they asked his name.

[rodeodance]

6. i think that is an F-

[rodeodance]

AND Hadley is still up for grabs!

..... Hadley, sources said, is also a subject of the investigation.

[Chomp]

78. Haha! Well spotted.

The real story is: "Karl Rove didn't lie when asked a question!"

[Flabbergasted]

4. The real reason why Rove resigned his duties. Its looking good!

[aquart]

14. I'm so slow.

If Fitz counted the lies to the jury, he's asking them to indict. Yowza.

When do they vote?

[Pachamama]

30. How many years does each indictment carry?

Just wondering...I'm hoping a lot....the Pillsbury Doughboy Rove deserves to sit in prison for a very very long time....

[aquart]

31. Never enough.

Fitz should have asked him a lot more questions.

[Memory Container]

45. Obstruction of Justice.... Perjury.... don't know...

But I'd wager that Rove is ultimately not so loyal that he wouldn't roll.
His Lawyers, whose duty it is to protect him, will try to get him to.

Should be lovely to see who he rolls on.

[WinkyDink]

47. He will NEVER give up the love of his life, Dubya. NEVER.

[leftchick]

52. I don't know about that

pudgy boy in federal prison for a LOOOOOOOOONG time? Or rolling on the boss? I pick number one!



:popcorn:

[H2O Man]

56. One of the things

I thought was extremely telling about George Bush's personality make-up was when he was out on the White House lawn with Scott M. The guy had made clear, after Andy Card "left," that he wanted to stay on as press secretary until the fall. Remember, he is one of the president's friends. And he got forced out. Watch when he starts getting choked up on the lawn, wimpering about, "I've given it my all, sir, and I've given you my all." Look at Bush's face. He has a smirk that conveys contempt for Scott -- his friend -- and a pleasure in Scott's suffering.

Rove will be more loyal to Bush, who he has an almost romantic love for, than Bush will be to him.

[leftchick]

58. one of the creepiest things about bush

is his pleasure in human suffering. It is chilling. :scared:

Do you believe rove will go down for bush? Or is this where cheney gets implicated by rove? When do you think rove will be indicted?

[H2O Man]

67. I do not think

that Bush's role was any where near as significant as Cheney's. So I think Rove will, by nature, point to Libby and Cheney as being responsible for the scandal, as Wilson noted on page 444 of his book. (However, there could be information regarding Bush that I am not aware of. Were he tied closer to the exposing of Plame, or the cover-up, it would come as a welcome surprise.)

[jazzjunkysue]

86. None of those children are above tattling to save their tails.

They'll all sing. Period. After all, he was just fired by them.

[leveymg]

66. OOJ - 10 yrs; Perjury - 5 yrs

[rodeodance]

21. could be could be

[Imagevision]

25. Rove resigned his duties? - he fails in November he's toast!!

GOP all don't feel the great white hope will bring back Bush's popularity, the last time Bush showed up to give support to 2 politicians? they both lost!

[Warren Stupidity]

76. Rove didn't resign his duties.

They fired scotty as a token and Rove moved over to organize the theft of the 06 congressional campaign. They can't afford to lose either house in 06 as if they do they will all go to jail.

[Flabbergasted]

77. Sure he did. He resigned as chief of policy.

[Warren Stupidity]

83. Which amounted to nothing.

Rove is directing the 06 campaign. He was always going to direct the 06 campaign. They needed to put on a show to divert from the RummyRevolt, and they did: they tossed Scotty under the bus and made a big deal out of Rove focusing on keeping them out of jail long enough to get the next war on.

It is one of their trademark moves: divert and distract.

[Flabbergasted]

85. Which amounts to Bush saying I already fired him when Rove is indicted!

[Patsy Stone]

81. Yep

He's freed up to steal the vote while he waits to be indicted. If they lose either house, they're all toast.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

7. Wonder how Fitz got the email? I thought I read that Hadley

didn't turn it over upon supoena either. Hmmmm....

Man, can't believe he told the truth once ! Good boy !

[rodeodance]

10. recall the emails that were suddently 'discovered' (after the WH had

said they were lost)

[Laura PourMeADrink]

yes, but this article is making it sound like Fitz had a copy before

the "discovery" and was waiting and waiting for Rove to tell the truth about it.

[rodeodance]

16. I did not read it like that.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

13. dupe

[H2O Man]

40. How Fitzgerald got the e-mail:

Luskin and Rove knew if Cooper and Time refused to cooperate with Fitzgerald, Karl's lie was safe. But Cooper was not as solid as Judy Miller. He had already backed down to Fitzgerald on Libby: when the court ordered him to testify, based on Scooter's signing off, Cooper did (Judith refused until she got the personal okay). So Luskin was wondering about Cooper, and about Time. So he had a series of meetings with Time's Vivica Novak, who admittedly told him that the "talk" at Time was that Rove was Cooper's source.

In her last article in Time, before "agreeing" to what we might politely call getting fired, Ms. Novak said Luskin had a physical reaction to this news. In fact, he would immediately tell Karl the news. They then retrieved the e-mail, and turned it over to Fitzgerald when Time had agreed to turn their documents over to the prosecution. Cooper got a call from Rove, literally within 24 hours of facing incarceration. You may recall him appearing very close to an emotional collapse outside the court, on the morning Judith went to jail.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

55. When I read this article, and saw that Fitz said that Rove lied

8 out of 9 times about the leak, I guess I falsely assumed that refered to the email and meant Fitz knew (had the memo in his position) previous to Rove's turing it over belatedly. So I guess I took that wrong. I wonder exactly what he lied about. So, he said 8 times that he never leaked to a reporter and then the 9th time he said he did because he finally turned over the email in the sequence you said?

For fun, let's just say that KKKarl REALLY didn't remember. And then he remembered when they found the email, belatedly. Then, why would the "8 times" have any significance at all? Why would Fitz point that out? If you truly didn't remember until you found the email then denying the leak 8 times or 108 times - it wouldn't mean anything.

[H2O Man]

57. I think

that the number of lies has to do with the separate and distinct lies that Fitzgerald wants the grand jury to consider for "counts" in the possible indictment. My guess -- and this is only speculation -- is that the grand jury will return indictments on 4 to 5 of the charges.

It is interesting to consider that Mr. Fitzgerald might have had the e-mail before Rove "found" it. Again, this is mere speculation .... but both Mr. Rove and Mr. Hadley had the e-mail. My understanding is that Mr. Fitzgerald has acquired a very substantial amount of evidence, far more than the indictment against Libby hints at.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

63. thanks for your explanation ! Yes, I don't know if anyone has

concluded whether or not Fitz has actually confiscated the server or has access to the audit file. Or -- does he only have access to what he was given under supoena.

But, I do wonder if Rove et al THOUGHT Fitz had that email? Otherwise, why would they "uncover" it? If I wanted to "play" like I didn't remember talking to Cooper, then I surely would never uncover an email saying that I did.

[H2O Man]

68. What you are focusing on

is absolutely one of the key issues. Rove is, by nature, the type who tries to control everything. Where Libby & Cheney manipulate from the shadows, and play possum when attention focuses on them, Karl is a different breed. He also has the inner compulsion to manipulate. I'm sure that Mr. Fitzgerald has exploited that behavior.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

70. Great insight ! You are right ! I suspect what happened was that

once Rove knew for certain that Fitz knew he had talked to Cooper, he had two choices. One, to ignore the news and just cross that bridge later (ala Cheney/Libby, as you mention above). Or two, act upon it, call Fitz's hand, which he couldn't resist doing. He created a scenario -- "Delving into old records, finding the email, and at that point had an "Aha" moment."

I am sure he was probably hoping to find a more benign email than he found (assuming it is a real email produced after the Cooper call). But, Rove was so strongly compelled to offer something to Fitz that he:
(1) turned over an email that was not very exculpatory,
(2) turned over an email that contradicts Coooper's testimony on subject, and
(3) by these actions, admitted that he (and Hadley for that matter) did not comply with the subpoena parameters.

[0007]

84. Like all good poker player who watch the eyes, hands and pattern

of the personality. Rove thought he was checking a cinch and got nailed.

[leveymg]

69. What about the backup WH e-mail server?

Didn't Fitz have access to that from virtually the beginning of Bush's order to release White House records? Seems that comparing the two sets of e-mails would be a good place to start an investigation. Certainly a guide to lines of questioning witnesses before the Grand Jury.

Seems to me that Libby, Rove, and the rest have been lying to prevent the POLITICAL consequences of their bosses intimate knowledge and involvement in the conspiracy. In so doing, they sacrificed themselves so Bush-Cheney could be reelected in November 2004. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me for why these guys have been lying to Fitz. The second-tier WH guys -- Libby, Rove, Hadley -- all knew that Fitz was going to see through the lies, but they threw themselves in front of the tank tracks as a delaying action.

That tactic appears to have succeeded -- I wonder what happens politically when the bulk of the American people come to understand that? Seems that the 2004 Presidential election was won by a different kind of fraud, one which is perhaps easier for people to understand and accept, and maybe do something about. Will we see a push to recover BushCo's unjust gains, and a demand for restitution? See my dairy yesterday: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/20/11309/5077

[kenny blankenship]

8. following the Bush example, i see

I can't have lost, I didn't lose! I fixed it so I know there is no possible way I lost. I refuse to abide by the result, I win whatever whichever rules have to be shoved aside. I don't care-I win, I win, I win. It all belongs to me anyway!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

11. If this is true, why didn't he charge him with Libby?

[rodeodance]

17. see this: Fitz said soon to present jury with criminal charges against Rov

e.


.... Just as the news broke Wednesday about Scott McClellan resigning as White House press secretary and Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove shedding some of his policy duties, Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald met with the grand jury hearing evidence in the CIA leak case and introduced additional evidence against Rove, attorneys and other US officials close to the investigation said.

The grand jury session in federal court in Washington, DC, sources close to the case said, was the first time this year that Fitzgerald told the jurors that he would soon present them with a list of criminal charges he intends to file against Rove in hopes of having the grand jury return a multi-count indictment against Rove.

In an interview Wednesday, Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin, confirmed that Rove remains a "subject" of Fitzgerald's two-year-old probe.

"Mr. Rove is still a subject of the investigation," Luskin said. In a previous interview, Luskin asserted that Rove would not be indicted by Fitzgerald, but he was unwilling to make that prediction again Wednesday.

[rodeodance]

18. "in hopes of having the GJ return a multi-count indictment against ROVE"

[kenny blankenship]

24. Somehow I posted this here, when it was a response to a different thread

(Berlusconi refuses to give up power)

[Imagevision]

9. Well, Mr. Rove needs to be indicted, however it'll have to wait until

after November elections, don't be surprised, Bush and Cheney pulled that one when 9-11 commission had their findings ready for the public -- Bush said you must wait until after the 2004 elections before you release your findings...anf they did.

[rodeodance]

15. I know, I was --am so angry!

[rodeodance]

19. I just hope Leopold knows what he is talking about (that his sources are

good)

[Catherine Vincent]

20. Things are good.

[rodeodance]

23. David Corn (Nation) Rove on the Stand?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20060418/cm_thenation/378126;_ylt=A86.I0qlIkVEVkABGBH9wxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--

Rove on the Stand?

David Corn Tue Apr 18, 1:33 PM ET

The Nation -- There is a clash of titans underway at the filing room of the federal courthouse in Washington. Now that special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald and Scooter Libby's defense team are in the thick of pretrial motions, every week or so one side or the other files a motion, a counter-motion or a counter-counter-motion, and these documents are providing sporadic glimpses into what happened in the weeks that led up to the Plame/CIA leak in 2003. For instance, it was a Fitzgerald filing that revealed that Libby had testified that
Dick Cheney had authorized him to leak selective portions of the National Intelligence Estimate on WMDs in Iraq to New York Times reporter Judith Miller and that this had happened after George W. Bush approved releasing (or leaking) slices of the NIE.

The most recent Libby filing did not contain such a blockbuster disclosure. But here are a few interesting portions:

When the issue of Valerie Wilson's employment is viewed in its proper context, and the full story is revealed, it will be clear that Ms. Wilson's role was a peripheral issue. If the press stories surrounding the governments NIE disclosure illustrate anything, it is that this case is factually complex and that the government's notion that it involves only Mr. Libby and the OVP is a fairy tale.

Hmmm, does this mean that there was a wide-ranging White House effort to undercut Joe Wilson's credibility that involved others than Libby and went beyond trying to depict Wilson trip to Niger as a boondoggle orchestrated by his wife, a CIA officer? Libby's lawyers keep hinting that they will suck the rest of the White House into the case to defend their man. But this is puzzling, for if Libby goes too far down that road, won't he hurt his standing as a deserving recipient of a presidential pardon? Many White House fans are raising millions of dollars for the Libby defense fund and a conservative think tank has put him on the payroll. So how many grenades can Libby throw at Bush, Cheney and Karl Rove?

[Justice Is Comin]

27. Man oh man

I'm as anxious as an alligator at hatching season.

If he didn't have to put extensive time into the Ryan case, he would have done this much sooner. But he didn't want to rush it. He just got the grand jury all set up, went back to Chicago and nailed Ryan to the wall. ....Now it's Rove's turn.

:woohoo:

[SoCalDem]

41. The long plane trip to Africa was where they cooked up their revenge

You just KNOW these freaks were going to try and "get Joe WEilson" for daring to tell the truth.. They also were probably worried that the fake documents would be tracked back to them..

[Jose Diablo]

50. David was murdered for what he knew, Blair freaked and called Bu$h

Bu$h and all, burned down Plame, and her cover Brewster & Jenning's to smother the discovery of the plan to plant WMD in Iraq to justify the invasion of Iraq.

Thus, our protective shield in the intelligence community used to prevent nuclear proliferation to third world countries and terrorists was destroyed in the name of politics.

All this in time of war, to profit politically, they waged war against, us. It is treason in the Office of the President. A hangman's noose is too light of a sentence for these people that have done this deed.

[Blue_Roses]

26. this is so interesting!

:)

[Jack Rabbit]

28. To what music do frogs march?

[Change has come]

35. That picture makes me very happy.

and it makes a wonderful desktop background!

[Jack Rabbit]

37. Try this one

Image from Rock City Photos

[Change has come]

38. With his high water pants and presidential cowboy boots.

Gives me an idea for a thread...Mind if I use these pictures?

[Jack Rabbit]

59. Go ahead. It;s not my picture to give away

Credit is given in the post above.

[npincus]

44. LOL!

next, PhotoShop him in a flight suit!

[DemInDistress]

74. wow !! another gem..outstanding jack rabbit ^5 to you nt

[DemInDistress]

73. gotta love that photo...so cool...take a bow and wish it...nt

[Marr]

29. Rove is finding out that he's not as smart as they told him he was.

Porky believed his own hype. So sad.

[linazelle]

36. Eggzactly. But it's not sad though. It's exhilirating!

I hope he goes DOWN like the scum he is.

[Davis_X_Machina]

34. He'll give up Hadley...

...and Hadley will give up Deadeye Dick.

The whole operation ran out of the OVP.

[H2O Man]

39. Of particular interest

is Luskin saying that Rove hasn't "discussed any plea deal with Fitzgerald." He then states that Karl's "cooperation is not contingent on any plea deal with the prosecutor. He has always cooperated voluntarily and unconditionally."

In the past few months, it has been known (by Jason Leopold's top-notch reporting) that Rove was "cooperating" with Fitzgerald. The extent was not known, though many of us suspected it was largely an effort by Karl to point the finger of blame at the Office of the Vice President.

Yet the questioned remained -- for me, at least -- would Fitzgerald and Luskin strike a deal? We know that Libby tried to get one, but refused the prosecutor's offer, because it included substantial time in prison.

Luskin saying that Rove didn't talk to Fitzgerald is a joke. Of course he didn't. He is the client. Luskin talks to Fitzgerald, then tells Rove what the offer is.

If Rove agreed to the prison time, there would be no indictment .... just the plea deal. But there isn't a deal. Karl will be indicted.

[EFerrari]

46. I hope it comes before Karl does any more "independent polling"

of our elections. :(

[H2O Man]

51. Quite soon

Karl will be advocating for convicted felons to have their voting rights reinstated.

[Catherine Vincent]

62. H2O Man,

You really know how to tell it like it is! :thumbsup:

[malaise]

79. I can't wait

I have the perfect photo waiting for the thread announcing KKKKKKKK's indictments.

[stepnw1f]

49. Ahhh... Things are Good (nt)

[H2O Man]

53. Indeed,

they are.

[npincus]

43. though this makes me jump for joy

where is Leopold geting this info? Actually, I don't care just hope it's reliable. Multiple counts of perjury AND obstruction of justice? Is this a dream?

[lonestarnot]

48. Hmmmm demoted and indicted? Juicy!

[Alamom]

54. Question for anyone in the know;

I was away for a while due to illness right after the indictments in Oct, so if this has been discussed, I missed it.

I just read P. Fitzgerald's term as prosecuter was supposed to be up in October 05.

In the summer of 2005, there were rumors that he would not be reappointed to a second four-year term.
(Wikipedia)

I can't find anything about him being reappointed

I find this, but no mention it extends his term.

On December 30, 2003, Fitzgerald was appointed Special Counsel (under Department of Justice regulation 28 CFR Part 600) in the Plame affair investigation.


This is a curiosity question, but what happened and who reappointed him?



Anyone?




TIA





edit:spelling

[gkhouston]

72. I believe that pertained to his work as a Federal prosecutor

in Illinois, not to his work in the CIA leak case. My understanding is that he's on this job for the duration.

[paparush]

60. I have this image...

Of Fitz roasting Rove like a suckling pig over a pit...turning....S L O W L Y ... and letting Rove sizzle...

Ah....

[myrna minx]

64. Thank you Jason Leopold.

His reporting on this is incredible.

[Pryderi]

65. Do you want to know why Rove will not be indicted?

Because Rove will tell Bush to launch all nukes if he is indicted. Rove will tell Fitz that he's the only one that can control Georgie-boy, and if he doesn't drop the investigation...well...

[rodeodance]

75. abc says GJ is meeting today--(friday)

[Rose Siding]

80. This contradicts what Schuster told Olberman

(I think it was KO- last night anyway) Schuster said that there was no indication that Fitz has been with the GJ this week. Leopold writes that Fitz was with them on Wed-

"Just as the news broke Wednesday about Scott McClellan resigning as White House press secretary and Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove shedding some of his policy duties, Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald met with the grand jury hearing evidence in the CIA leak case and introduced additional evidence against Rove, attorneys and other US officials close to the investigation said."

[Patsy Stone]

82. I think the e-mail was from Hadley's computer records

I think he said that he knew nothing, but Fitz already had the e-mail, let him know it, and went after Rove. I think that's when Hadley was worried about being indicted (for OOJ or perjury?) himself. Then, suddenly, Luskin played the Novak card and off we went that-a-way.