Boycotting Exxon and why Snopes.com is wrong

[flvegan]

Per the Exxon threads lately...the boycott.

Snopes.com our debunker, is wrong. And here's why...

1. The franchise. Exxon is trying to push the "On The Run" franchises. A boycott would send local franchisees into a tizzy. Think they have no pull? Think again.

2. The supply/demand debate at Snopes must come from a 1st year BA freshman. If a station/depot has no customers, every day is a loss of money. If other stations need to buy gas from the boycotted station, they aren't paying a premium. Supply/demand skips from the consumer to the retailer. The retailer becomes the bargainhouse. Look, you need to move your gas, I'll buy it from you for 50 cents below market value. Done deal. Just like a foreclosure, just like WalMart, just like Big Lots.

3. Though Exxon, et al, might not feel it so much, Economics 101 dictates that any loss to one storefront is a gain to another when the same item is purchased there. It's called market share, and stockholders watch that like it was their own children.

4. Many folks boycott WalMart for much of the same reason. Makes sense to do this anyway.

5. Lastly, and I've said this before...keep the receipt. If you boycott one place, you need to tell them why, and show them their losses. So, let them know the business that they've lost, specifically by telling them what you've spent elsewhere.

Groovy. Zipping up flamesuit now, so have at it...

[BrklynLiberal]

1. I would go miles out of my way to avoid buying Exxon. I only buy Citgo.

[LynneSin]

39. me too

:D

I have 2 nearby

Go Venezuela

[corporate_mike]

62. Citgo is just as profitable as the other oil companies

Buying gas at Citgo is not the solution

[iconoclastNYC]

72. Citgo isn't writing energy legislation

Or denying global warming and pretending to be eco-friendly. That's Exxon.

[KansDem]

40. Citgo's my choice for gas!

I've started going to the one closest me. The owner of the station still has bays for auto repair and, although I haven't taken my car there for repair, I've thought about having him do my next tuneup. He seems to be a kind of "good ol' boy" type so I wonder how he'd react if I told him I was coming to his station now in support of Venezuela and Chavez!

[goclark]

47. citgo has a website that you can input your zip code

and find the closest station.
Mine was far, far away. :(

Now I can't find it but I sure found it about a month agao. :(

[LeftyMom]

51. here you go

http://www.citgo.com/CITGOLocator/StoreLocator.jsp

[goclark]

57. Thanks, I checked back

and decided to do 10 mile radius too.

Sometimes that is OK because it may be near a friends house or a place that you go to frequently.

[LeftyMom]

60. Yeah, there isn't one real close to me

but there are two that are on the way to places I go, so I'm going to try to patronize them.

[blondeatlast]

73. Thanks for the info. There's one 1/4 mile from my home and I didn't

even know it!

[kittenpants]

77. Hess is great too - 98% blue according to buyblue.org

http://www.buyblue.org/node/197/view/summary

[ClassWarrior]

2. Yup. The people who claim it will have no effect don't...

...take into account the huge potential retail losses and the possible detrimental effect to a brand.

NGU.

[Not Sure]

3. Can anyone provide each oil company's

source of oil? An earlier thread I read left me with the impression Citgo's source is Venezuela. What about the other companies? I'd be happy to do my part to bankrupt companies selling Saudi or Kuwaiti oil, if possible. There is a Citgo station down the road - traffic makes it hard to get to - but I'd go there if I knew that I wasn't putting the screws to a good competitor down the road who's buying from Mexico or Venezuela. As far as boycotting Exxon is concerned, I'm already doing that and have been since Joseph Hazelwood.

[Dangerously Amused]

20. I will go out of my way to buy from BP.

Although BP started out with one of the first oil claims in the ME (in May 1901, William Knox D'Arcy was granted a concession by the Shah of Iran to search for oil, which he found in May 1908. This was the first commercially significant find in the Middle East (Wiki)), they have since turned away from the ME as a primary oil source, now purchasing from Venezualia and Alaska, among other places. AND they put a good amount of research into developing alternate fuel sources.

Here are a few clips from their Wiki entry:

From the late 1960s the company looked beyond the Middle East to the USA (Prudhoe Bay, Alaska) and the North Sea. Both of these fields came on stream in the mid-1970s transforming the company and allowing BP to weather the OPEC-induced oil price shocks of 1973 and 1979. In 1969, BP acquired the Valdez oil terminal, Alaska, from the Chugach for $1.
...

P.I. Walters (later Sir Peter Walters) was BP's chairman from 1981 to 1990. Walters promoted a movement to deintegrate company operations based solely upon economic considerations: .... Under his chairmanship British Petroleum led the oil industry away from an era dominated by vertical integration and the supply planning this required toward a corporate culture that emphasised trading and decentralisation.

In 1987, British Petroleum acquired Britoil and those shares of Standard Oil of Ohio (Sohio) not already owned. In 1994, BP and Petroleos de Venezuela SA (PDVSA) began marketing Orimulsion®, a bitumen-based fuel. Lord Browne of Madingley, who had been on the board as managing director since 1991, was appointed group chief executive in 1995.
...

BP America, the United States arm of BP, was named one of the 100 Best Companies for Working Mothers in 2004 by Working Mothers magazine.
...

BP is a leading producer of solar panels since its purchase of Lucas Energy Systems in 1980 and Solarex (as part of its acquisition of Amoco) in 2000. BP Solar had a 20% world market share in photovoltaic panels in 2004 when it had a capacity to produce 90 MW/year of panels. It has over 30 years experience operating in over 160 countries with manufacturing facilities in the U.S., Spain, India and Australia and has more than 2000 employees worldwide.

In February 2002 BP's chief executive, Lord Browne of Madingley, renounced the practice of corporate campaign contributions, noting: "That's why we've decided, as a global policy, that from now on we will make no political contributions from corporate funds anywhere in the world."

In March 2002 Lord Browne of Madingley declared in a speech that global warming was real and that urgent action was needed, saying that "Companies composed of highly skilled and trained people can't live in denial of mounting evidence gathered by hundreds of the most reputable scientists in the world." In 2005 BP was considering testing carbon sequestration in one of its North Sea oil fields, by pumping carbon dioxide into them (and thereby also increasing yields). (emphasis mine.]

In 2004, BP began marketing low-sulphur diesel fuel for industrial use. BP intends to create a network of hydrogen fueling stations in the state of California.


Sourced and fully cited here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Petroleum

[LSK]

32. wow, thats pretty impressive, thanks for the post

[Dangerously Amused]

35. You're welcome!

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. Thank you muchly

I have been wondering about BP and hadn't taken the time to look them up. This is very helpful.

[Dangerously Amused]

55. Very welcome!

:thumbsup:

[Ms. Toad]

79. They may not be making corporate donations...

but according to BuyBlue.org they are still active in the arena of buying political influence:

Donations by top executives, top officers and PAC’s:
$79,610 to Democrats
$129,889 to Republicans

It doesn't identify the time frame for the contributions, other than to indicate that reporting on contributions by executives/officers/PACs reporting is because of a 2003/4 law which prohibits direct contributions by corporations forcing corporations to make donations through executives/officers/PACs. That puts the donations after BP made the assertion, "from now on we will make no political contributions from corporate funds anywhere in the world."

[corporate_mike]

22. Citgo is owned by Venezuelan gov't

[blue sky at night]

4. Just Curious......

Can they really pull gas out of the tanks to send to another location? Sounds kind of out there....but I agree a boycott is our best tool to stop this.

[flvegan]

5. I don't know, but I'd suggest

that if the tanks are full, then they'd send the trucks to reload them elsewhere, thus increasing supply.

[Dangerously Amused]

21. Yup. Just like siphoning gas from a car.

They just stick a hose in the tank, and suck.


;)

[MercutioATC]

6. Wanna try it? Knock your socks off.

I won't even post why it won't work any more.

Nonviolent activism is good, regardless of the degree of its impact.

:)

[flvegan]

7. Thanks for the blessing, but

I'm already doing it, and if you're the expert on it, then please enlighten me. I do believe I might have missed the covenant on why this is a bad idea.

[MercutioATC]

17. I'm no "expert", but look into who buys gasoline from whom.

Especially in a shortage situation...

Again, I'm done with this issue. If you think it'll make a difference, go for it.

[ClassWarrior]

18. Why it won't work?? What about retail sales??

Do you have some goofy formula to show that retail operations aren't affected by boycotts too?

NGU.

[Imagevision]

69. Exactly!! -- how much is inside sales effected? ciggies etc...

Why do Dem have such a hard time getting their sh*t together?!!

[Rocket Surgeon]

8. I'm sick of the prices.

There is an old saying, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em". I'm going to put some Exxon stock in my portfolio, so an increase in divadends will offset what I pay at the pump.

[flvegan]

9. So long as

when the stockholder meeting takes place, you speak up, no issues with me.

Hell, you just bought votes, it seems. I'm sure it's not just greed, right?

[LeftyMom]

10. What he said.

If you're going to buy stock in an evil corporation, be a pain in the company's ass.

The shareholder resolution is your friend. Gather up some likeminded insurgents and go to the annual shareholder meeting. Vote against the favored canidates for the board, ask uncomfortable questions and generally be a pain in the ass.

Unless you just want to make a couple of bucks, in which case defense contractors may be a better bet than oil companies even, considering the current state of things.

[REP]

12. Do You Know How Many Shares It'd Take To Make A Difference?

Yes, you can attend the meetings and vote if you hold just one share ... but your vote is meaningless.

[LeftyMom]

14. I suppose that's a pretty good argument for not giving that corp. one's $

I've heard of activists getting a single share in order to have access to finacial info and the shareholder meeting, but since shareholder meetings aren't what they used to be (interestingly enough supposedly progressive Whole Foods is leading the charge in silencing critics at these events) and financials these days are about as fanciful as the works of Dr Seuss, I can't say I see the point either.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. Enjoy your stay

:hi:

divAdends! LOL :rofl:

[Dunedain]

11. I disagree

In point, not principle.
Exxon is wrong for their avarice.
Our government is wrong for not doing something about that kind of predatory behavior.
Our government is especially wrong for colluding with Exxon.

Boycotting a gas station, unless it is a corporate owned facility, hurts only a local person.
Kind of like cutting off your own nose to spite your face.

Exxon and the laundry list of others should be held to account.
I fear that when that day comes, and it will; it will be summary.
We will be too busy with sorting out the mess they are making now.

[flvegan]

15. You make good points

But, on the flip side, boycotting a gas station, as you've stated, hurts a gas station owner, regardless of who he/she is, and where he/she lives. That owner, taking profit from Exxon's many ill-gotten dollars, has made an investment in the return on those dollars. One would have to say the very same about anyone with stock in this company, as well as anyone with a 401k investing in a mutual fund with shares in this company.

Exxon is wrong, and those...sigh, dare I say? Those sucking on her teat should feel the payback for it.

[Dangerously Amused]

27. It may put (a) local person(s) out of a job.

But it seems to me that the increased business to other stations will create job openings there.

[jmowreader]

74. No, it really won't

The only time a convenience store will ever put more than two people on shift at once is if they've got a quick-service restaurant on the premises...something like a Subway. Otherwise it's either one person on the gas console and one on the register, or one person running the whole place.

[XemaSab]

13. Exxon sucks hard

I would never, ever, ever buy gas there.

They are horrible.

[Rocket Surgeon]

16. How is Exxon any more evil than Citgo, Shell, BP, etc...

Is evilness a function of revenue?

[400Years]

19. uh hello

If you don't know the diff b/t Exxon and Citgo, you really need to pay more attention.

Citgo has been providing discounted heating oil in the Northeast.

Exxon would never do something like that.

Take a look at Exxon's lobbying practices.

The money that goes to Citgo is being used for a good purpose.

[bloom]

23. For one thing they still owe punitive damages over Valdez

and they won't pay up - even though they have outrageous profits. They don't want to ever have to pay for the damages they do.

There is various info here: http://www.exxposeexxon.com/

[Dangerously Amused]

24. "Is evilness a function of revenue?"

Not a function, often a result:

"The love of money is the root of all evil" 1 Timothy 6:10

[bloom]

26. Also disinformation campaign:

Big Disinformation campaign:

Exxon Backs Groups That Question Global Warming

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0528-10.htm


Report: ExxonMobil Spends Millions Funding Global Warming Skeptics

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/22/1338256

[meganmonkey]

29. Citgo is the state oil company of Venezuela

No middle east imports at Citgo.

Hugo Chavez is improving the lives of the poor, working people in his country, as well as sending discounted oil to help the poor in the US.

I buy Citgo 9 out of 10 gas purchases.

Peace!

[corporate_mike]

48. Citgo is just as profitable as the other oil co.s

[meganmonkey]

58. Of course they are

Did I imply otherwise?

The difference is where the profits go.

[ronnie624]

37. The revenue from Pdvsa

is used to benefit the people of Venezuela, funding programs that provide food housing and education for the poor which make up the majority of the Venezuelan population. I prefer my money to be used to such an end instead of being crammed into the bank accounts of the piggish oil barons like Lee Raymond.
~~~
Instead, the windfall is financing a social revolution long promised by President Hugo Chávez's 5½-year-old government to extricate the country from its malaise and ease life for the poor, an effort that had been hobbled by the strike and a 2002 coup that temporarily ousted the firebrand leader.s used to benefit the people of Venezuela.

<http://www.trinidadandtobagonews.com/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/2259>
~~~
It is easy to read between the lines and see why President Hugo Chavez represents the worst nightmare of the United States and the global corporate imperialists. A 'developing nation' taking control of its own resources? Ending sweetheart deals with multinational giants? Plowing profits back into infrastructure and 'social revolution,' in effect using American and European oil investment dollars to bring prosperity to Venezuelans? Soliciting cooperation from multinationals on its own terms? A majority partner in deals with Chevron and such? No more bowing and scraping before anybody who knocks at the door?

<http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1225>
~~~
After PDVSA workers walked off the job last December in a bid to force Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez from office, the fiery populist hitched his social revolution to the $110 billion business: He purged the company's ranks and installed his own people. What was widely regarded as a world-class energy company before the strike has a new philosophy: to help the poor. And a new corporate culture is gradually taking shape, injected with the president's particular brand of leftist ideology.

"The old culture is dead, and a new one is developing," says Omar Enrique Perez, a compensation analyst with 15 years at the firm, who is working to slash salaries across the board - including his own. "Because we feel we have to do something about the problems that are confronting our country, and we believe our work will help Venezuela develop."

<http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0415/p01s03-woam.htm>
~~~
This is why I buy nothing but Citgo gasoline.

[wtmusic]

45. Thanks for info -- learning things here

I had no idea Citgo had anything to do with Venezuela.

I've been avoiding Exxon like the plague (I buy Shell) but will search out a Citgo station. :thumbsup:

[ronnie624]

50. I'm not certain about it,

but I believe 7-11 also carries Venezuelan gasoline.

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. The 7-11s here carry Citgo gas

But I don't know if that is just here or all over the US.

[hippywife]

76. We also boycott Shell

because of their abuses in Nigeria:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/091900-01.htm

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. Well for starters

they never cleaned up the Alaskan Valdez spill OR paid the fine.

I haven't bought Exxon gas for nearly 20 years because of this.

Their $37 BILLION profit last year is just icing on the cake as far as I am concerned. It's a great feeling to know that NONE of that profit came out of my wallet.

[femmedem]

78. ExxonMobil complicit in murder, torture & sexual abuse in Indonesia

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1401733.stm

[bloom]

25. Why anyone would want to give their money to a company as corrupt

as Exxon is beyond me. Unless they aren't paying atttention.

http://www.exxposeexxon.com/


Big Disinformation campaign:

Exxon Backs Groups That Question Global Warming

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0528-10.htm


Report: ExxonMobil Spends Millions Funding Global Warming Skeptics

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/22/1338256

[movie_girl99]

28. I have seen Valero stations popping up

around my area? Who owns them?

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. I want to know that too

When I was in Texas last week, I couldn't find Citgo gas and ended up buying from a Valero station. I still want to know whose gas that was.

[wtmusic]

65. Valero makes their own -- they're North America's biggest refiner

and about 39% of their crude comes from the Persian Gulf (as opposed to 4% for Citgo and 3% for Shell).

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/summary2004.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. Ok thanks

So they aren't as good as Citgo, but better than Exxon.

[bigtree]

30. this is a really appealing strategy which should be employed and tested

can't hurt. It's proactive and reasonable to punish/reward companies for their behavior with the selective application of the money we fork over.

[gordianot]

31. The figure I heard on NPR was a 3% decrease would greatly impact prices.

Cannot remember who maybe a better listener remembers.

[onenote]

36. i think that's an overall 3% decrease in demand

not a shift of demand from one station to another

[cain_7777]

33. I've boycotted Exxon for years!

They have spent millions lobbying against Global Warming legislature. They are filthy pigs wallowing in their oil soaked money.

[eyepaddle]

34. It depends on your aim I suppose,

If you want to make Exxon feel the pinch for being lousy corporate citizens (re: sabotaging the climate change debate etc) a boycott--if it's complete enough--may stand a chance. Primarily from the grief they will take from the franchises, however if the goal is to get them to lower the cost of a gallon of gas, well....

Once the gasoline is in the tanks at the stations, it stays there until it's sold. ExxonMobil selling fuel to other chains would occur at the refinery/distribution terminal level. Much of the excess product would go to independent retailers, such as SuperAmerica, 7-11 or what have you.

However, a concerted campaign can get them to change their behaviour Wal-Mart is still Wal-mart, but they are starting to respond to the steady drumbeat of criticism they get for being rapacious bastards. And haven't pressure groups had some success in getting MacDonald's to change their business practices? Usually it's something small, like the kind of fryer oil they use or something such as that, but those vistories can still be significant.

If we could get ExxonMobil to stop bankrolling the "Climate Skeptics" and just STFU I'd call it square.

[PATRICK]

38. I still wonder at the big results

of small dealers squeezing their meager profits to stay in business but I do know that even without a price war or gas crisis things can happen dramatically. Two local jerks who insulted their customers eventually lost their franchises. I don't think it was any coincidence that the customers identified the jerks with the franchise especially trying to complain to the chains with slow satisfaction. One of my letters was on file with Exxon. Now the franchises themselves have changed hands.

You can wreck a lot of havoc with franchise ownership anywhere and a national effort would be dramatic. What remains to seen is what will happen above as a chain reaction while we are wrecking lives locally.

If you think Snopes is a problem that is just a small sample of resistance to the boycott idea. The wisest thing to do would be to plan for such resistance, pre-empt and disarm it in the way the boycott is spread. That is not quite as simple as the simple idea itself and still remain a contagious easy popular movement.

[Imagevision]

70. big results? - what happens to inside inventory that stays on the shelves

because nationwide countless millions stopped buying because they bought their gas elsewhere?
Gas delivery trucks would have to be re-routed because the ingound tanks were still full?
Excellant plan! you hurt them in so many ways!

[Viking12]

41. You ignore the fact of the vertically intergrated market

Exxon is not merely a supplier to/through retail, they are also heavily involved in oil production. You're focusing on the Wizard and not seeing the man behind the curtin.

Marketshare in the oil industry is determined by yhe ability to produce. Citgo could never produce enough to steal Exxon's marketshare.

[ClassWarrior]

42. But what about retail sales? Doesn't a boycott affect much more than gas?

What about the effect on a company's brand?

NGU.

[Viking12]

43. Brand name doesn't matter.

You write as if Exxon is considered a model citizen and you'll somehow deal them a blow. People already hate Exxon.

They have the resources in a oligopoly.

[ClassWarrior]

44. You write as though resistance is futile. You're trying to convince the...

...wrong person that branding is of no value. And you didn't answer the retail part of the question.

NGU.

[Viking12]

64. No, I'm not saying resistance is futile.

I'm saying a boycott of an individual oil producer is. If you want to do something about the power of oil companies the avenue is reduced consumption across the board in real numbers. Not silly boycotts to try to discredit the Borg.

Branding doesn't matter because there is no real competition. Neither Citgo nor any other provider can produce enough to replace what Exxon produces. Simple geological, politcal, and economic realities.

A boycott may hurt the franchises. As has been pointed out. That is only hurting a small business person. Exxon wouldn't even flinch.

[Beaverhausen]

46. Lots and lots of us have been boycotting them for years

ever since that "email" started the rounds...I think in 2002.

Yet, Exxon seems to be doing just fine.

I will continue to not buy their gas but I have no delusions that it does any good.

edit: Come to think of it I have actually been boycotting them since the Exxon Valdez spill. Fat lot of good it has done.

[corporate_mike]

49. and it certainly made a huge difference

[redqueen]

52. LOVE IT!

:)

It. Just. Makes. Sense.

ONLY CITGO, BABY!

[DS1]

54. All we'll be doing is shouldering the cost of cheap gas in the name

of those who will buy it from anyone.

[Imagevision]

71. duh!

[stepnw1f]

67. My Immediate Family Now Only Buys Citgo

That's quite a few people. Now multiply that by 4 more families.... do the math! :evilgrin:

[Imagevision]

68. Why argue? - just purchase your gas elsewhere other then Mobil-Exxon!!

what's the biggie? common logic, if you're doing 300 less customers per day, this also effects inside sales you're hurting them!! let this happen nationwide and somebody eventually says wtf is going on!!

[farmboxer]

75. I always buy Citgo

Yep, Citgo!