Falun Gong/Moonies playbook.

[Finder]

The so-called protester at the ceremony was an obvious move from the Moon playbook.

Let's not fall for it.

[Ian David]

1. Falun Gong is not the moonies

They're more like a Chinese cross between Scientologists and Christian Scientists with elements of The Breatharians and Heaven's Gate thrown-in.

[Finder]

3. They are tools of the Unification Church n/t.

[Ian David]

5. That's news to me. Where'd you hear that?

Sun Myung Moon is a Moonie.

Falun Gong are Loonies.

They're different.

And in any case, crazy or not, they don't deserve to be rounded-up into camps, executed, and harvested for organs.

[Virginia Dare]

17. I've known quite a few Falun Gong members...

and they weren't loony. Most of them are highly educated people. They have some radical ideas and practices, I'll grant you, but nowhere near on the par with the Moonies.

But they certainly aren't shy about working with anybody who is on their side against the Chinese government.

[cali]

7. Provide some evidence or

don't make such an assertion.

[Finder]

10. The Epoch Times for example...

How do you think a newspaper and television station were funded? Do not see the similarities--think Washington Times.

Here is the wiki page on the Paper. Now use the info there to research a bit. Read the stories in the Epoch Times...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Epoch_Times

"As the paper has its global headquarters in New York City, its various editions worldwide all tend to show a marked pro-U.S. undertone, and in particular it is supportive of the Bush administration's conservative policies, the global War on Terrorism and the Iraq War; as a result, it rarely reports such unfavourable news as the Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse, only reporting it after the offenders are punished, which it uses to glorify democracy."

[Bridget Burke]

20. I really enjoy Wikipedia....

Especially the Discussions you can find about controversial entries--such as the one you cite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:The_Epoch_Times

Even a disputed Wikipedia entry can be a good source for beginning research. I suggest YOU do the work.

[noonwitch]

36. The Christian Science Monitor is also owned by a religious organization

Is Christian Science a cult? Some say so (usually fundamentalist christians), but I don't think it is. Their paper has an excellent reputation.

[laheina]

53. Fortunately, they separate their religious dogma

from their use of journalistic ethics.

I usually find their reporting credible.

[Finder]

39. Swastika emblem...hmmm

http://www.falundafa.org/intro/0-falun.htm

[laheina]

55. It's not the swastika of death.

It is the swastika of life. There is a *huge* distinction between the two.

The Nazis used the previous, btw.

[MadHound]

2. Sorry, but Falun Gong is in no way connected with Moon or his group

We have a small community of Falun Gong practicioners here and they seem like very nice people. In no way do I get the vibe that they are brainwashed, cultish type people, just peaceful, spiritual folks who want to practice their faith in peace.

Tying them to the Moonies is just wrong.

[Finder]

4. Do you realize they are a cult?

I mean an aliens on earth, supernatural powers, wacky group.

[Ian David]

6. Yes, but they're a DIFFERENT cult

And that doesn't mean they don't still have human rights.

[MadHound]

11. What you call a cult, others call a religion

Geez, most people in this country believe in an invisible, insubstantial sky being who supposedly watches over us all, judging who is naughty or nice, and thus worthy of going to join him when they die. Supposedly this sky being performs magical acts for people once in a great while even. People are so taken in by this cult that they have mass gatherings on a weekly basis, pray to him daily, and base decisions of all sorts on how this sky being lived his life. Oh, and then they go to war with another group of people who believe in the same invisible sky being, just a slightly different version with a different name:eyes:

Really, the biggest difference between a cult and a religion is the number of people who follow the philosophy. A few hundred or thousand, it's a cult. A few million, it's a religion.

Oh, and unlike the Christian cult, I don't see the members of the Falun Gong going out time and again to wage wars in order to spread their cult. Now THAT is wacky friend. I'll take people doing exercise in the park any day over people going to war for their cult.

[Finder]

14. Well they support the Iraq war,...

Bush; they use the same red scare rhetoric, leader torturing citizens line used against Castro, Saddam etc. Connect the dots.

[Bridget Burke]

15. So give us some dots to connect.

Not just your opinions.

If they support Bush, why would the embarrass him?

[Finder]

21. She protested the Chinese President. n/t

[Bridget Burke]

25. Who was meeting with Bush....

It didn't make Bush look good. (Not that anything does.)

[Finder]

Well Bush's base is anti-communist...

so they loved that she spoke out.

[Bridget Burke]

30. Doesn't Bush's base also share your fear....

Of weird, non-Christian religions?

[Finder]

38. My fear does not exempt christian cults...

I disagree with any who feel homosexuality is demonic, aliens walk the earth, chosen people can walk through walls or on water, etc...

[MadHound]

34. Who is they? Which they are you talking about?

And really, it doesn't make that much of a difference. A cult is a cult is a religion:eyes:

Sorry, but I find your whole premise to be suspicious, to say the least. So what, this lone woman speaks out against both the Chinese premeire and Bush. She has good reason to, being as that the peaceful followers of her cult/relgion are suffering severe repression in China, all the while Bushco isn't calling the Chinese on this obvious human rights atrocity.

[Ian David]

23. Here are some warning signs of what makes a cult:

Excerpted from:

THE UNLIKELIEST CULT IN HISTORY
BY MICHAEL SHERMER


* Veneration of the Leader: Excessive glorification to the point of virtual sainthood or divinity.

* Inerrancy of the Leader: Belief that he or she cannot be wrong.

* Omniscience of the Leader: Acceptance of beliefs and pronouncements on virtually all subjects, from the philosophical to the trivial.

* Persuasive Techniques: Methods used to recruit new followers and reinforce current beliefs.

* Hidden Agendas: Potential recruits and the public are not given a full disclosure of the true nature of the group's beliefs and plans.

* Deceit: Recruits and followers are not told everything about the leader and the group's inner circle, particularly flaws or potentially embarrassing events or circumstances.

* Financial and/or Sexual Exploitation: Recruits and followers are persuaded to invest in the group, and the leader may develop sexual relations with one or more of the followers.

* Absolute Truth: Belief that the leader and/or group has a method of discovering final knowledge on any number of subjects.

* Absolute Morality: Belief that the leader and/or the group have developed a system of right and wrong thought and action applicable to members and nonmembers alike. Those who strictly follow the moral code may become and remain members, those who do not are dismissed or punished.



http://www.2think.org/02_2_she.shtml

[Bridget Burke]

29. Some of these points to apply to "religions"....

The difference between "religion" & "cult" is a bit nebulous.

[Ian David]

33. I consider the Catholic Church and Republican Party to be cults n/t

[laheina]

56. On the Catholic Front,

you need to do a little bit more research. Many of your cited criteria either don't apply, or are only partially correct.

[Ian David]

58. A cult doesn't need to meet ALL the criteria

Both the Catholic Church and The GOP are cults.

[laheina]

63. I didn't say "all." I said "many," and I can expand that to most.

If you feel differently, then please expand on your claims. Blanket assertions from a dubious (non) authority aren't really worth the effort of rebutting.

And this topic is somewhat beside the point.

[AllieB]

59. The Catholic Church is not a cult

it is many things, but it isn't a cult.

[MadHound]

35. Sounds like most Western religions to me!

Honestly, the only real difference between the two is sheer numbers, that and the political power that goes with those numbers. Notice, forty years ago, the Moonies were considered a "cult", but now, with their increase in numbers, and increase in political power, they're a "religion"

Same with the Christians. Nineteen hundred years ago, they were a "cult", but my how they grew, and now they're a religion.

All a matter of numbers, and the power that goes with those numbers.

[CanSocDem]

47. That's right...

"...I don't see the members of the Falun Gong going out time and again to wage wars in order to spread their cult. Now THAT is wacky friend. I'll take people doing exercise in the park any day over people going to war for their cult."

I wondered why the Chinese Gov't was so upset about this movement so I did some reading. Basically, as in another post, the intent of the philosophy is for PERSONAL enlightenment and spiritual growth. The only reason the gov't could object would be if the philosophy transcended the politics of collectivism.

I think the USA is just confused and unsure of how to treat this movement. They don't really believe in freedom of the individual or a religion that doesn't have its' members under corporate control.

[MADem]

13. Well, some say Scientologists, Mormons and Catholics are cults

Some don't feel that way.

That doesn't justify killing them.

[bryant69]

8. "so-called" protestert?

Did he protest? Isn't he then, by definition, a protester?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Finder]

18. She...and consider the vetting. n/t

[bryant69]

32. I don't know what you mean.

You do seem to have in for the Fulan Gong.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[dusmcj]

9. provide cites or drop it. nt

[Bridget Burke]

12. We have numerous Falun Gong in Houston....

They are often seen protesting peacefully in front of the Chinese Consulate on Montrose.

I've never heard of any link with Moon. I doubt any Moonie would embarrass their leaders good friend, Bush.

[Finder]

16. Moonies are peaceful too...

the followers are not a problem..it is the billionaire, media owning, leaders.

Do you really consider it realistic that a new religion made up of poor chinese peasants would be able to start up a newspaper with over a million copies that are distributed free and to own a tv station?

Follow the money.

[Bridget Burke]

22. YOU follow the money & let us know the results.

The Chinese demonstrating in Houston are NOT starving peasants. In fact, not all the people in China are starving peasants nowadays.

[Finder]

27. How is the newspaper and tv station funded? n/t

[Bridget Burke]

31. Please let us know.

You are the one who needs to prove your point.

[Finder]

48. What point is that?

My only point was that they are emerging the same as Moon did. Same playbook.

Same message--homophobic, anti-communist, media saturation, etc...

[marions ghost]

19. LOL

Falun Gong is NOT Moonies. Do some googling will ya?

It's Bushbots and Moon (where's that photo of Moon being crowned in the halls of the US Senate?)

[Finder]

24. Same playbook, agenda, money source-- not religion. n/t

[Bridget Burke]

28. Still no valid cites?

Surprise, surprise!

[Finder]

41. Here is some info...

http://www.cultnews.com/index.php/category/falun-gong/

[Bridget Burke]

43. Rick Ross is a Professional Anti-Cultist....

However, his site shows NO link between Falun Gong & the Moonies. He has his critics. www.religioustolerance.org/acm2.htm#newcan

The same source is not as critical of Falun Gong. www.religioustolerance.org/falungong.htm

[Finder]

45. From your source:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/falungong1.htm

Read down to the beliefs. Here are some excerpts:

Beliefs:
homosexuality is degenerate behavior, on a par with sexual promiscuity.

illness is caused by the indwelling of "an intelligent entity that exists in another dimension."

The body's vital energy, Qi, can be focused to improve one's health and sense of well being. But it can also "be used to develop the ability to fly, to move objects by telekinesis, and to heal diseases."

A person with qigong training can walk through solid objects, like a wall.

Individuals with some qigong training can exhibit super-human abilities: clairaudience, telepathy, precognition, etc. But it takes a qigong master to achieve certain functionality, like alchemy -- the ability to transform one type of substance to another. The latter could tear down a large building using mental power only. They would never do this in practice, because it is forbidden for them to demonstrate their powers. Also, such destruction would cause harm.

There are many living entities on earth that appear to be humans, but in fact are aliens.

[Bridget Burke]

46. And this relates to the Moonies....

How?

[Finder]

50. Tactics, funding, etc...n/t

[Bridget Burke]

51. When did the Moonies last embarrass Bush?

How many Koreans contribute to Falun Gong?

[Finder]

52. Who said Koreans did? n/t

[Finder]

54. Actually, they are in South Korea...

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-3-26/39744.html

[Bridget Burke]

57. You keep coming up with odd links....

But nobody is buying your story.

[Finder]

60. What is my "story"?

Don't understand what you are trying to argue here. All I am doing is pointing out that this group is doing exaclty what Moon did back in the 70s.

[Bridget Burke]

61. You see a resemblance....

But nobody else does.

[Finder]

62. Well I have been researching Moonies since the 80s...

and there are many that see similarities. Including the authorities. ;)

[bigtree]

26. The things the woman was shouting at the two heads of state

were issues which should concern us all.

I think attempts to marginalize her appeal by highlighting alleged associations is the same type of reprehensible fascism that she apparently is rebelling against. Surely you can flesh out your complaint against her without an association smear.

[RaleighNCDUer]

37. The real question in this incident is

What did * have to gain by insulting Hu? One thing after another on this visit was designed to piss Hu off, not the least of which was the Secret Service taking 90 seconds - a minute and a half - to get to this lady and get her out of there. When has the Secret Service EVER reacted so slowly to a potential threat to the president or a visiting head of state?

Conflating Falun Gong with Moonies is unfounded, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't collusion in allowing this protester to get access to two of the most powerful men in the world. In fact, it can hardly be explained without allowing for collusion.

[Finder]

40. Agree...

although I believe the playbook is the same for both movements.

[originalpckelly]

42. Your full of Bull****, Look at the Wikipedia Article on Falun Gong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong

Falun Gong (Traditional Chinese: 法輪功; Simplified Chinese: 法轮功; Pinyin: Fǎlún Gōng; literally "Practice of the Wheel of Law") is also known as Falun Dafa (Traditional Chinese: 法輪大法; Simplified Chinese: 法轮大法; Pinyin: Fǎlún dàfǎ; lit. "Great Law of the Wheel of Law") is a system of qigong introduced by Li Hongzhi in 1992. Falun is also sometimes translated as dharma wheel or chakra. Central to Falun Gong is five sets of meditation exercises (four standing, and one sitting). A few years after its public introduction in 1992, Falun Gong quickly grew to become one of the most popular forms of qigong in Chinese history, and has been growing in popularity around the world.

Falun Gong has been the focus of international controversy since the government of the People's Republic of China began a nationwide suppression of Falun Gong on July 20, 1999. Concerns were triggered especially when 10,000 practitioners assembled in peaceful protest at the Central Appeal Office at Foyou street, outside Zhongnanhai. Not since the Tiananmen Square Protests of 1989 had so many people gathered together to protest the government.

When the clampdown began, the number of Falun Gong practitioners in China was estimated by the government at 2.1 million. The membership claimed by the Falun Gong was much larger; it claimed to have 100 million followers worldwide with 70 million in China.

Here is the article on Qigong:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong

Qigong (Simplified Chinese: 气功; Traditional Chinese: 氣功; Pinyin: qìgōng; Wade-Giles: ch'i4 kung1) is an increasingly popular aspect of Chinese medicine involving the coordination of different breathing patterns with various physical postures and motions of the body. Qigong is mostly taught for health maintenance purposes, but there are also some who teach it as a therapeutic intervention. Various forms of traditional qigong are also widely taught in conjunction with Chinese martial arts, and are especially prevalent in the advanced training of what are known as the nei chia (internal martial arts).

There are currently more than thirty three hundred different styles and schools of qigong. Qigong relies on the traditional Chinese belief that the body has an energy field generated and maintained by the natural respiration of the body, known as Qi. Qi means breath or to breathe in Mandarin Chinese, and by extension the energy produced by breathing that keeps us alive; gong means work or technique. Qigong is then "breath work" or the art of managing the breath to achieve and maintain good health, and especially in the martial arts, to enhance the leverage and stamina of the body in coordination with the physical process of respiration.

Attitudes toward the basis of qigong vary markedly. Most Western medical practitioners, many practitioners of traditional Chinese medicine, as well as the Chinese government view qigong as a set of breathing and movement exercises, with possible benefits to health through stress reduction and exercise. Others see qigong in more metaphysical terms, claiming that breathing and movement exercises can influence the fundamental forces of the universe. An extreme form of the latter view was advocated by some participants in the Boxer Rebellion of the late 19th century who believed that breathing and movement exercises would allow them to ward off bullets.

If you think it is B.S. say so. Don't associate it with this B.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonies

South Korea and China are two very different nations. That poor lady was ticked off because China has been harvesting organs from Falun Gong supporters while they are still alive (and it is my understanding also while still awake.)

[Finder]

49. Do you believe that organs were harvested?

Did you believe the Iraqis threw babies from incubators?

I am not saying this woman is lying..she is merely a follower and has to believe what her master says. Propaganda comes from both sides.

[Jack Rabbit]

44. What the Falun Gong or the Moonies or Scientologists are is irrelevant

Freedom of worship is a basic human right. The government has no right to tell an individual how to worship or to prohibit him from worshiping as he sees fit.

I don't know enough about the Falun Gong to make any judgment on them. I know enough about the Moonies to be disinclined to their point of view. As for the Scientologists, I have been diagnosed with major depression and take medication for it which works very well; obviously, Tom Cruise's cosmic view doesn't work for me.

I also know enough about the Chinese government to be glad I don't live in China. Bush's America is bad enough.

While the protester's actions yesterday were uncouth, I support the right of the Falun Gong to draw attention to the suppression of their faith by the Chinese government and their right to their beliefs. Protesters should make President Hu feel uncomfortable on his visit.