Do some Du’ers preach to the choir? I've periodically..................

[Minnesota Libra]

......noticed something going on at DU and want to point it out lest we become a version of FR or take on any form of the neocon/fundie mentality.

It seems that when a contentious issue comes up and a reply doesn’t meet with someone’s immediate approval one reaction is to sometimes lash out with demeaning or sarcastic replies. Check over at FR for the frequency of this one. I’ve resorted to this one myself a couple of times so I’m, unfortunately, just as guilty as anyone else of this. Believe I try to keep it down to a low roar even when those occasions do occur though. At no time do I want to loose DU.

The second reaction to responses we find questionable, and some people go straight to this one, seems to be “welcome to my ignore list”. I’ve only put one person on my ignore list and even that was just for a short time, until the person cooled their jets a bit. I understand some people have rather lengthy “ignore lists” and that’s fine, but what are they learning? What are they gaining by doing that? Not having to listen or read a differing viewpoint? I understand FR resorts to the “ignore” and “ban” practice all the time.

It stands to reason that when we get over 88,000 users on one liberal web site some are going to be extremely liberal and others will no doubt be moderate liberals. There are two things we all have in common though. First we are all under that Democratic/Liberal umbrella, and second we all want to defeat the neocons/fundies in 06 and 08. Just because everyone isn’t a 60’s style liberal though is no sign they aren’t just as important to that endeavor of defeating neocons/fundies as everyone else.

So the next time someone has a political opinion that is a bit too liberal for us or a bit too moderate for our liking, maybe taking a moment out to truly listen could gain us a lot. It might just help us see an issue from a totally different point of view. It may also give us some new insight into what is truly going on with the average person out there in Middle America. Remember we have many undecided voters out there and they will make or break the next two elections so listening to differing views could be to our advantage.

Best of all truly listening to people could also help us frame an issue so as to remove the stigma, once and for all, that neocons have attached to the term “liberal”. After all, isn’t the “Liberal/Democratic” umbrella inclusive enough for all but the most die-hard neocons/fundies?

[blm]

1. Never used ignore and never will.

I agree with much of what you said. I'm personally a far lefty in my own beliefs, but understand pragmatism is what it takes in a truly wide-reaching party.

It came easy to me - I grew up in a pretty poor family w/ 12 kids - getting along and cooperating was key to surviving.

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. I do for sanity's sake on hard days...but no one gets permanently

ignored.

[Minnesota Libra]

5. OMG, 12 kids? I admire your parents and yes I agree cooperation.....

...would be key in a family that size.

I also agree with not using the ignore button, that doesn't teach me anything.

[blm]

7. heh....we were the POOR version of the Kennedys.

.

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. One would think.

But, sometimes I think people just like being contrary. There are people I see posting that will never post anything but a differing opinion. I will say, for the most part, I have been at major odds with many DUers over time. I tend to be moderate, and am a die hard Dean supporter. I have friends who find John Kerry to be godlike. We disagree on a lot, but get along where it counts... There is room for all, but everyone has a bad day. Snap judgements of who somebody is based on a few comments on a message board aren't very productive. I've seen decent people be banned.

[Minnesota Libra]

10. You may have a point about some people just liking to be "contrary" but ..

.....even they can teach us something about dealing with neocons/fundies. My experience is that neocons/fundies are contrary by nature and dealing with a few here teaches us to approach that whole mentality with reason and common sense. That just irks neocons/fundies to no end.:rofl: :rofl:

[justice1]

19. I admit to playing devils advocate at times.

Most issues to me are not black and white, so I strive to find a balance. I look at how a situation affects Americans, and the rest of the world on a humanitarian level, as well as economic impact. They are often at odds with one another.

[Minnesota Libra]

20. This is the point I hope people walked away with from my post, that.......

....snap judgments of anyone under the "Liberal umbrella" hurts no one worse than it hurts us in our efforts to defeat all neocons/fundies.

I could easily support Dean but my dream team would be Gore/Feingold for 08.

I'll tell you - :) even though you didn't ask :)- why I'd prefer Gore/Feingold over Dean. Dean has what some people see as a "tendency for outbursts". Where I think Dean would find his calling would be a VP so those instantaneous responses could be put to good use against neocons who more than deserve to be told off occasionally.

While "outbursts" (not meant to be derogatory either) is not always a bad thing it could be very bad when it comes to issues like North Korea, The Middle East, Venezuela, and China. Thanks to idiot boy we are going to have MAJOR issues with all the above mentioned for the foreseeable future and we're going to need someone/s with plenty of foreign experience and someone/s who are very measured in their responses to those issues.

Your thoughts??

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. My thoughts are that the only tendency for outburts on Howard Dean's

part are media generated. I think he sometimes says more than he plans, but it is refreshing that he always stands by what he says. I think Dean or Feingold would be excellent choices.

I love Al Gore and always will, but 2000 left a bad taste in the mouths of many and I don't think he would get enough votes. Too many fence sitters would stay home for lack of a "better"( their thought not mine) candidate. My husband would probably be among them, and that scares me too much.

[enlightenment]

4. In my very humble opinion, the increasing frequency

of sneering condescension (and I am guilty as well, to my dismay) is at least partially due to our collective - and increasing - frustration.

I'm not trying to excuse the action; it is psychically debilitating to read a thread full of mean remarks; but I do think that it is a symptom (to some degree) of our dismal circumstances.

I agree that it would be wonderful if we could all behave in the most intelligent and thoughtful of ways, all the time -- but we're human.

Perhaps one way to cut down on the quantity of nasty comments would be to wait a minute or so after writing an emotional response before hitting the 'post message' button. Back in the days when the letter was the standard communication form it was easy to write a nasty message -- even put it in an envelope, seal, address and stamp -- but never put it in the mail box.

Instant communication tools like this forum make it a little too easy to say things you regret.

[Minnesota Libra]

6. I try to do exactly that - wait before posting a nasty response by........

....writing my potential response out in a word processing program and then reading it over a couple of times. I can't even begin to count the numerous times I've edited out words and phrases that would have otherwise been much too strong and have done absolutely no good.

Boy you said a mouthful with this one, "Instant communication tools like this forum make it a little too easy to say things you regret."

Thank you for some words worth living by.:hug:

[enlightenment]

17. You're welcome, and thank you for

the smilie hug!

I've gotten very lazy about using my word processor for writing posts; unless they are longish, I just write in this little box.

Unfortunately, my laziness often shows, particularly with grammatical mishaps (I'm famous for my convoluted sentences in any case).

Still, I use 'preview' before I post, just to make sure that I read what I just wrote. More often than not, I feel the need to make changes -- for clarity, grammar, or stupidity.

[TahitiNut]

18. "sneering condescension"??

Where's that smilie? That's an emoticon I really need! :silly:

[enlightenment]

24. oooh . . . you're right; that would be a good one.

How does one make smilies, anyway?
:evilgrin:

[goclark]

8. I agree with your post

My thought is that on TOUGH/SENSITIVE issues (ex: DUKE, MCKINNEY, IMMIGRANTS) we could have threads that are labeled "AGREE WITH ME RANTS" and all the members who have strong feelings on either side and could not possibly have their minds changed could just bag on McKinney all day long and I would know not to even try to give them my perspective because they will insult my ancestors and I don't need the pain.

We could also have threads that say>I WANT TO LEARN ABOUT......
those threads would be posted by folks that sincerely want to gain information and then they can go back to the RANT threads on those issues and rant on with their peer group!

On the Duke Story and/or the McKinney Story I can't really recall when I have read a thread, on either story, when I saw anyone change their mind based on INFORMATION(well maybe 5 times) but usually it becomes a battle of the positions.

I appreciate a good discussion but I want to LEARN something and if information is presented to me in a way that is not a put down, I am all ears. Sorry to say,that rarely happens.

And, as an African American, I get mighty offended when a "Liberal" Democrat tries to tell me how my people should feel about a certain issue! A true LIBERAL should know that, they should not have to LEARN that fact.

If anything, you would think that the prospective of an African American, on either of these two issues, would be valued instead of put down and dismissed.

African Americans generally know what the position will be from the Neo Con perspective, we just have to think about what Rush or O'Liely would say and we would "get it." :)

But,with sincere honesty, it hurts like a bee sting to see LIBERALS, that you want to believe care about Civil Rights issues, take such strong stands against the Liberal View.

One wonders where that anger comes from ~ is it because we all have fake names?

I know, I know --- those people that are not willing to listen to the point of view of a Minority, and at least "try to understand where we are coming from," are all Freepers, "right!":eyes:

[Minnesota Libra]

11. I wish we did have a "I want to learn forum", wouldn't that be nice? nt

[goclark]

25. We could call them INFO threads!

I wish there could be RANT Threads with like minds
and INFO THREADS (now,IMO, a better name than LEARN thread) that provides links/video clips and other articles that would enlighten and build awareness for EACH "SIDE" of the issue.

People on the DUKE Players side (for example) could post their INFO links on the INFO thread and people that see the Dancers side can find the links that would support their position.

NO personal COMMENTS and personal OPINIONS should be allowed in the INFO THREAD.

INFO THREADS = Just the facts, no opinions.
Save that for the RANT threads

Now ~ when the Court makes a decision or VITAL changes happen, then everybody can join in and battle it out. That way we are not fighting each other,we are beating up on that MEAN and stupid DA or that MEAN and stupid Defense Lawyer that won the case.

:think:

[annabanana]

9. There are people for whom this

is a form of recreation. Some get carried away by the "game" and become more interested in scoring points than making sense, or having a genuine conversation. I will "ignore" when someone gets on my nerves for this... but it doesn't usually last too long.

[Minnesota Libra]

12. I agree totally - with everything you said nt

[hexola]

13. People with agendas looking for fights...

I've noticed it since the Duke rape thing hit...

Its like folks think there is some contest going on...

I can consider both sides of the Duke case...no problem. I dont have a "favorite driver" (to use a NASCAR analogy).

Sometimes you have to speculate/talk about the way things are...not the way you would like them to be...dont get offended if someone does...

My favorite posts are the "got a link for that?" posts...as if a link means anything when it comes to speculation about a legal matter...

Some folks think they are some sort of "legal eagles," whos job it is to make sure nobody says anything that isn't "true" on DU...

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

14. Oh yeah! Well say hello to my little ignore button. Ya bastid. n/t

[Armstead]

15. Well, that post scotches it. You're on my Ignore list now.

Just kidding....:)

Good post. It would be helpful if we could avoid making disagreements personal, and instead focus on content more.

[Minnesota Libra]

16. Thank you nt

[donco6]

21. As an outspoken person, I agree.

I tend to say what I think and I'm not always very diplomatic. And yes, people just jump down your throat if you're not "toeing the company line" at every moment. It's somewhat aggravating, but I rarely "ignore" people. Usually when I do I check back and they're tombstoned anyway.

[Cleita]

22. I only started to use ignore a couple of weeks ago, but I

disagree about not learning something. I learned a lot. I learned that basic human rights and love of one's fellow man isn't just a liberal or political position but defines one's character.

Also, those ignore's and the threads they seem to cluster on seem to not appear on the many other discussions we have here at DU but certain narrow wedge issues where many RW talking points are defended in the rudest, loudest way.

Many long time DUers have gone MIA I believe because of this. So my ignore list has been very educational to me.

[Minnesota Libra]

23. I've noticed that most replies to my post don't generally use the.....

.....ignore button much. Does that tell anyone something about the willingness to learn and how the ignore button might affect that learning?? :shrug:

[omega minimo]

26. "Truly listen" "see different point of view" "gain insight"

These suggestions you make really ARE the "liberal" attitude. They are also the core of the spirit of DU Rules "based on Respect." If folks chose to honor the Rules --using common sense and paying attention-- without constantly testing the limits and the vigilance of the Mods, your good point would be moot.

Traditionally, the Democratic Party was the party of The People, The Underdog, minorities, etc... Being hotheaded and reactionary is not conducive to that sort of Big Tent.

"So the next time someone has a political opinion that is a bit too liberal for us or a bit too moderate for our liking, maybe taking a moment out to truly listen could gain us a lot. It might just help us see an issue from a totally different point of view. It may also give us some new insight into what is truly going on with the average person out there in Middle America. Remember we have many undecided voters out there and they will make or break the next two elections so listening to differing views could be to our advantage."